Mexico Crime

[davidvel]

No doubt that the rapes and attempted murders in just those 5 days make your point as well. There might have been one just around the corner in the last 5 days, but who cares since you did not know about it. Please do not look at that map.

I don't see any attempted murders, nor any rapes, as the data is not that granular. There may have been some in this time frame, but we can't tell from this map. And there are no murders shown. But, don't worry, I'm very aware of the number and types of crimes that occur in my area of town.

All that being said, the map does help make my point, which was not whether Mexico tourist areas are safer than U.S. inner cities, or elsewhere. My point, as Bill notes above, is that people's perception of crime in Mexico is driven more by the (accurate) "stories about the heinous depravity that occurs south of the border," than the raw numbers and data. Bodies being melted in acid, routine decapitations, murder of politicians will tend to scare people, despite the fact that tourists are rarely involved.

 

[DannyTS]

I don't see any attempted murders, nor any rapes, as the data is not that granular. There may have been some in this time frame, but we can't tell from this map. And there are no murders shown. But, don't worry, I'm very aware of the number and types of crimes that occur in my area of town.

All that being said, the map does help make my point, which was not whether Mexico tourist areas are safer than U.S. inner cities, or elsewhere. My point, as Bill notes above, is that people's perception of crime in Mexico is driven more by the (accurate) "stories about the heinous depravity that occurs south of the border," than the raw numbers and data. Bodies being melted in acid, routine decapitations, murder of politicians will tend to scare people, despite the fact that tourists are rarely involved.

To be clear, i have been to San Diego and it is a wonderful and (probably) very safe city. In general I agree with you about what happens in Mexico.

But we are on TUG, a community that shares information about TS resorts so I do not agree with the attempt to make people fear travelling to brand name resorts in Cancun or Riviera Maya (I have not been to the West coast). All evidence shows that you are safe.

 

[easyrider]

The people who believe that going to Mexico isn't a good idea for them are actually 100% right.

The people that believe that going to Mexico is a good idea for them are actually 100% right.

Everyone has a comfort level and some peoples comfort level regarding brutality in crime to any group is very low.

Many people, like 22 million a year, do go to Mexico each year and have no problem with crime. This is one big reason to feel safe from crime in Mexico. Someday, if tourists become the actual targets of the cartels, I might change my mind. The comparison of cartel victims who are actually cartel members to all other groups in Mexico is based on something other than rational thoughts, imo.

Bill

 

[turkel]

So realistically, is anyone worried about travelling to the EU?

Seems to me that most of the violence in Mexico is gang on gang, cartel to cartel, and yes, tourists are very occasionally a victim or collateral damage. But what about EU where most of the terrorist attacks seem to be aimed at popular tourist destinations at busy times? (London, the Christmas Markets, etc). Mexico doesn't target the tourists, terrorism often is directed at tourists.

I am more worried about visiting the classic sites in Europe than I am about travelling to Mexico.

To be honest....Yes, but this thread isn't about the EU

 

[TravelTime]

But we are on TUG, a community that shares information about TS resorts so I do not agree with the attempt to make people fear travelling to brand name resorts in Cancun or Riviera Maya (I have not been to the West coast).

This is quite an accusation. I do not think anyone is attempting to make people fear traveling to brand name resorts in Cancun or Riviera Maya. Where did you get this idea? This thread was supposed to just be discussing crime in Mexico. I have not seen any attempt to create fear or any criticism of the brand name resorts (or any specific resorts) on this thread.

 

[TravelTime]

So realistically, is anyone worried about travelling to the EU?

Seems to me that most of the violence in Mexico is gang on gang, cartel to cartel, and yes, tourists are very occasionally a victim or collateral damage. But what about EU where most of the terrorist attacks seem to be aimed at popular tourist destinations at busy times? (London, the Christmas Markets, etc). Mexico doesn't target the tourists, terrorism often is directed at tourists.

I am more worried about visiting the classic sites in Europe than I am about travelling to Mexico.

Yes, I am worried about traveling to Europe because of all the terrorism in tourist destinations. We actually stopped going to Europe because of all the terrorism and shifted to traveling to Mexico because we thought it was safer...until we learned Mexico is experiencing record murder rates and barbaric crime. But this is not a thread about terrorism in Europe. Maybe you can start one in the European thread.

 

[DannyTS]

This is quite an accusation. I do not think anyone is attempting to make people fear traveling to brand name resorts in Cancun or Riviera Maya. Where did you get this idea?

Then you should state that it is safe to visit brand name resorts in Cancun or Riviera Maya.

 

[RX8]

I haven’t been to Mexico in years. I really don’t have much interest in going back. For me it isn’t just about the violent crime. Corruption is rampant. We flew into Mexico with a group of clients. An airport official tried to shake us down for a “group tax”. We spent way too much time arguing against this fee. We were eventually allowed to leave without paying but was told next time we had to pay it. Fun times.

 

[TravelTime]

Then you should state that it is safe to visit brand name resorts in Cancun or Riviera Maya.

I have gone further than that. I have said as long as tourists stay in the hotel zone, they are likely to be safe. I think they are generally safe regardless of whether it is a brand name or non-brand name hotel. I think tourists are very safe in the luxury Mexican compounds because they have the most security - like Vidanta, Pueblo Bonito and other similar huge, heavily guarded resort compounds. I suspect the huge Mexican hotel conglomerates are safest because they have layers of security to get in and they know the culture and how Mexico works. They tend to be located in hard to reach beaches where it might be less likely that strangers would just stroll in from the beach. They have security at all the entrances and question even guests when they walk in from the beach. I have stayed in Vidanta's compound in Nuevo Vallarta and Pueblo Bonito's compound at Sunset Beach in Cabo. It is very difficult to get in because the Mexicans run their compounds like clock work. They have several check points and security all over. When I stayed at the Intercontinental in Cancun, I felt less safe because they did not have much security. It was very easy to walk in from the front of the hotel or from the beach. However, the Intercontinental in Cozumel felt very safe because it was more like a compound and very hard to get through the checkpoints and it does not share a beach with other hotels or have walk by traffic on the beach.

 

[Carol C]

So realistically, is anyone worried about travelling to the EU?

Seems to me that most of the violence in Mexico is gang on gang, cartel to cartel, and yes, tourists are very occasionally a victim or collateral damage. But what about EU where most of the terrorist attacks seem to be aimed at popular tourist destinations at busy times? (London, the Christmas Markets, etc). Mexico doesn't target the tourists, terrorism often is directed at tourists.

I am more worried about visiting the classic sites in Europe than I am about travelling to Mexico.

OK then...time to start another separate topic on crime in Europe.

 

[TravelTime]

OK then...time to start another separate topic on crime in Europe.

Ha, Ha...LOL

 

[Carol C]

I haven’t been to Mexico in years. I really don’t have much interest in going back. For me it isn’t just about the violent crime. Corruption is rampant. We flew into Mexico with a group of clients. An airport official tried to shake us down for a “group tax”. We spent way too much time arguing against this fee. We were eventually allowed to leave without paying but was told next time we had to pay it. Fun times.

Yes the culture of corruption and rampant bribery is beyond irritating. Also crimes that go unsolved or punished. British pop artist Kristy MacColl was run over and killed by a speedboat some years ago. This was in the marked safe snorkel zone on my beloved Cozumel. The partiers on the boat were powerful family in the Yucatan...and they got some poor Mexican guy to take the fall. A two year prison sentence for the crime morphed into payola... a small fine was paid. Kirsty was on vacation with two sons she pushed out of the way...they had to see their mom get mowed down by that boat. So sad...hard for me to forget this incident and I will forgive Mexican people because many locals came to the rescue that day. In general they are family people. Such is life in Mexico.

 

[davidvel]

The reason I started this thread separate from the "is it safe?" threads was because this is not intended to be a "Is it safe to go to ...." thread. I was trying to point out why so many people may have fears of traveling to Mexico based upon factors other than the pure statistics: corruption, depravity of the particular crimes, untrusted police investigation, etc.

I'd appreciate it if you'd please put the general "is it safe?" comments elsewhere, if you could.

 

[Egret1986]

The people who believe that going to Mexico isn't a good idea for them are actually 100% right.

The people that believe that going to Mexico is a good idea for them are actually 100% right.

Bill

Well said. There's no right or wrong. Let folks share information (whether positive or negative), so they can make the decision that is right for them. We're all different with different tolerance levels.

 

[TravelTime]

The reason I started this thread separate from the "is it safe?" threads was because this is not intended to be a "Is it safe to go to ...." thread. I was trying to point out why so many people may have fears of traveling to Mexico based upon factors other than the pure statistics: corruption, depravity of the particular crimes, untrusted police investigation, etc.

I'd appreciate it if you'd please put the general "is it safe?" comments elsewhere, if you could.

I totally understand your point and understood your initial point in your first post. However, this topic inevitably leads to "Is it safe..." comments. Can you clarify a bit more about what kind of discussion you were hoping to have?

 

[ottawasquaw]

If a person has never been to Mexico, the reports of crime, sickness, corruption , death, kidnapping and all other bad news, combined with the language barrier and sanitation problems, are reasons not to ever go to Mexico.

When a person has been to Mexico, they just know better.

Bill

This will be your opinion until you personally have a situation that changes your mind, and that's ok.

I am deeply troubled by the first hand reports I receive. The fact that 2 priests or has it been 3 murdered in the last month? I guess that makes it local on local crime. I know people who own T/S in MX and won't be returning. Actually every US Citizen that I know who has personally experienced crime in MX have chosen not to return. Some were in resorts. Some were their for humanitarian reasons.

AZ has suffered a lose in tourism in recent years a couple of times due to reports, policies and boycotting. Policies were changed. We depend on our visitors. Would MX work to improve if they felt a similar economic lose?

 

[davidvel]

I totally understand your point and understood your initial point in your first post. However, this topic inevitably leads to "Is it safe..." comments. Can you clarify a bit more about what kind of discussion you were hoping to have?

I am not sure exactly, but I just wanted to give a perspective other than just the raw statistics. There are lots of comments in threads to the effect of "why are people scared, when its more dangerous in the U.S.?" I think there have been a lot of good comments and discussion in this thread. I also know it will inevitably get back to the "It's safer in the tourist areas than in the middle of Chicago..." Nothing I can do about that.

To me, it's an interesting thing how people compartmentalize the brutal violence and corruption into a separate bucket, but I certainly understand why. To simply state that the statistics support that Mexico is safer ignores a big part of people's fears, which are not necessarily irrational.

 

[TravelTime]

I am not sure exactly, but I just wanted to give a perspective other than just the raw statistics. There are lots of comments in threads to the effect of "why are people scared, when its more dangerous in the U.S.?" I think there have been a lot of good comments and discussion in this thread. I also know it will inevitably get back to the "It's safer in the tourist areas than in the middle of Chicago..." Nothing I can do about that.

To me, it's an interesting thing how people compartmentalize the brutal violence and corruption into a separate bucket, but I certainly understand why. To simply state that the statistics support that Mexico is safer ignores a big part of people's fears, which are not necessarily irrational.

Totally agree!!!

 

[DannyTS]

This will be your opinion until you personally have a situation that changes your mind, and that's ok.


AZ has suffered a lose in tourism in recent years a couple of times due to reports, policies and boycotting. Policies were changed. We depend on our visitors. Would MX work to improve if they felt a similar economic lose?

The drug lords live in their own world and have completely different motives than regular folks so it is hard to see a tourism boycott having any impact.

Admit it or not, things would be different in Mexico if money from drugs sold North of the border were not pouring in.

 

[TravelTime]

What bugs me about these threads is it seems like Tuggers only care about Tugger (tourist) safety. It seems quite self interested.

 

[klpca]

What bugs me about these threads is it seems like Tuggers only care about Tugger (tourist) safety. It seems quite self interested.

Who says we only care about tourist safety? On TUG, I'm pretty timeshare-centric. Our church does outreach in Tijuana as well as an outreach for migrants living in the canyons in our own community. Any further and this will surely get political. I'm just saying that this message board is a small snapshot of anyone's life.

 

[Eric B]

Hmmm; if the focus of a thread isn't supposed to be tourist/tugger related, shouldn't it be in the tug lounge forum rather than the Mexico timesharing one? While there is a wealth of stuff we could speak about regarding things that happen or socio-economic issues in a place, if they don't actually affect timesharing or tourism in that place, there may be a more appropriate forum to discuss them in. Otherwise they seem like red herrings that distract from the purpose of the forum.

 

[TravelTime]

Who says we only care about tourist safety? On TUG, I'm pretty timeshare-centric. Our church does outreach in Tijuana as well as an outreach for migrants living in the canyons in our own community. Any further and this will surely get political. I'm am just saying that this message board is a small snapshot of anyone's life.

This is wonderful. What bugs me is when folks say Mexico is safe for tourists, yet ignore the problems the locals are experiencing. You obviously are not in this category. We may be going to Mazatlan soon, which is in one of the state department's "D0 NOT TRAVEL" states. Our close Mexican friends just invited us to visit them in Mazatlan. I am aware the tourist zone in okay to travel in but the rest of the state is category 4.

 

[PigsDad]

Hmmm; if the focus of a thread isn't supposed to be tourist/tugger related, shouldn't it be in the tug lounge forum rather than the Mexico timesharing one? While there is a wealth of stuff we could speak about regarding things that happen or socio-economic issues in a place, if they don't actually affect timesharing or tourism in that place, there may be a more appropriate forum to discuss them in. Otherwise they seem like red herrings that distract from the purpose of the forum.

Well said. TUG was not intended to be a forum to discuss social, political or religious issues. It is the Timeshare Users Forum. Getting "bugged" about people not being up in arms about some social issue not related to timesharing seems like wasted effort here. I'm sure there are plenty of other places to discuss those issues.

Kurt

 

[TravelTime]

Hmmm; if the focus of a thread isn't supposed to be tourist/tugger related, shouldn't it be in the tug lounge forum rather than the Mexico timesharing one? While there is a wealth of stuff we could speak about regarding things that happen or socio-economic issues in a place, if they don't actually affect timesharing or tourism in that place, there may be a more appropriate forum to discuss them in. Otherwise they seem like red herrings that distract from the purpose of the forum.

I think these Mexican crime threads have degenerated into nonsense at this point. It does not matter if they are posted in Mexico or TUG Lounge, IMO. Frankly, the Mexican thread seems more relevant than the TUG lounge. The TUG lounge appears to be a lot of miscellaneous with no real relevance. Just a bunch of interesting threads, which I think is great. The TUG lounge is fun!