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Mexico Crime

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TravelTime

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Well said. TUG was not intended to be a forum to discuss social, political or religious issues. It is the Timeshare Users Forum. Getting "bugged" about people not being up in arms about some social issue not related to timesharing seems like wasted effort here. I'm sure there are plenty of other places to discuss those issues.

Kurt

Isn't crime in a certain place relevant to owning or visiting a location, whether it is a timeshare or not? I am very pro-Mexico, yet I like to be up to date on what is happening in Mexico - and all over the world.
 

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This is wonderful. What bugs me is when folks say Mexico is safe for tourists, yet ignore the problems the locals are experiencing.
Just curious -- how is that any different that a thread assuring people it is safe to travel to Chicago, yet ignoring the rampant crime and murder rate in parts of Chicago? Would you be bugged about that as well? Why or why not?

Kurt
 

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My Mexican friend recently bought 2 acres of oceanfront land in Mazatlan. He is excited to show it to us. Whether I am scared or not, I will go! Nothing keeps me from living.
 

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Just curious -- how is that any different that a thread assuring people it is safe to travel to Chicago, yet ignoring the rampant crime and murder rate in parts of Chicago? Would you be bugged about that as well? Why or why not?

Kurt

I would be bugged if it degenerated into irrelevance. I think comparing Mexican cities to US cities is nonsense.
 

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BTW, I have not seen a post that assures people it is safe to travel to Chicago.
 

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TravelTime

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If the question is whether I would be irritated by threads that comment on crime in Chicago, the answer is no. I welcome information that is accurate regarding crime, regardless of where it occurs. I do not live in Chicago so I have no idea about what it is like. I have heard certain parts of Chicago are very dangerous so I would welcome more information about crime in Chicago. I welcome information about crime in my neighborhood, even if it is rare. Crime is everywhere!
 
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Eric B

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I think these Mexican crime threads have degenerated into nonsense at this point. It does not matter if they are posted in Mexico or TUG Lounge, IMO. Frankly, the Mexican thread seems more relevant than the TUG lounge. The TUG lounge appears to be a lot of miscellaneous with no real relevance. Just a bunch of interesting threads, which I think is great. The TUG lounge is fun!

Perhaps it doesn’t matter unless you’re looking for information on tourism or timesharing in Mexico. If that’s the case, it’s in the wrong place and could be considered a red herring that merely distracts from the purpose of the forum, timesharing and tourism in Mexico. They have another forum that is full of interesting threads that I think is great, the TUG lounge. I don’t, however, follow that one because by its nature it isn’t intended to convey information on a single topic I’m interested in, in this case timesharing and tourism in Mexico. The sole point I’m making is that you could choose to post there instead of here and it would make more sense organizationally and add value rather than distract from this forum’s purpose.
 

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By the way, I completely agree that they have degenerated into nonsense.
 

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So realistically, is anyone worried about travelling to the EU?

Seems to me that most of the violence in Mexico is gang on gang, cartel to cartel, and yes, tourists are very occasionally a victim or collateral damage. But what about EU where most of the terrorist attacks seem to be aimed at popular tourist destinations at busy times? (London, the Christmas Markets, etc). Mexico doesn't target the tourists, terrorism often is directed at tourists.

I am more worried about visiting the classic sites in Europe than I am about travelling to Mexico.

Sure, I am in Spain and Spain has a level 2 travel advisory, just like England and Mexico. But am I worried or concerned? No. I just follow the recommendations of the state department website as I always have. According to the state department, here in Spain, it can be directed at tourists (terrorism) so in theory should be more dangerous. Of course, one can't predict terrorism and no matter what you do, you could be caught at the wrong place. So, I just make sure I don't put myself into bad situations as much as possible. As far as the people, just like in Mexico, warm and wonderful.
 

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Hmmm; if the focus of a thread isn't supposed to be tourist/tugger related, shouldn't it be in the tug lounge forum rather than the Mexico timesharing one? While there is a wealth of stuff we could speak about regarding things that happen or socio-economic issues in a place, if they don't actually affect timesharing or tourism in that place, there may be a more appropriate forum to discuss them in. Otherwise they seem like red herrings that distract from the purpose of the forum.

This thread definitely belongs to the TUG lounge since it has nothing to do with how to stay safe when travelling to the Mexican TSs.
 

davidvel

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This thread definitely belongs to the TUG lounge since it has nothing to do with how to stay safe when travelling to the Mexican TSs.
This thread is about people's fears of traveling to Mexico, and the reasons why they have such fears. This is the Mexico Timesharing forum, not the "How to Stay Safe When Traveling to Mexican Timeshares" forum. This thread is about Mexico Timesharing.

The lounge is about discussions that don't fit into the other defined forum areas. It's not a place to hide discussions you don't want to see.
 

Eric B

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This thread is about people's fears of traveling to Mexico, and the reasons why they have such fears. This is the Mexico Timesharing forum, not the "How to Stay Safe When Traveling to Mexican Timeshares" forum. This thread is about Mexico Timesharing.

The lounge is about discussions that don't fit into the other defined forum areas. It's not a place to hide discussions you don't want to see.

Reasonable minds can, of course, disagree. In my opinion, this thread is more focused on perceptions of Mexican societal ills than on Mexican timesharing. I have no objection to the discussion in this thread, but follow the forum it is in to gain information on Mexican timesharing and travel to Mexico. Perhaps another forum on societal issues would be appropriate; I don’t have an opinion on that. I am, however, an interested reader of information that falls into the category that strikes me as appropriate for this timesharing forum; other people’s fears of travel doesn’t really seem to fit. My opinion is that that would be an appropriate topic of discussion for a tourism agency to consider, making it border on a political area, but that’s a matter of judgment.
 

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This thread is about people's fears of traveling to Mexico, and the reasons why they have such fears. This is the Mexico Timesharing forum, not the "How to Stay Safe When Traveling to Mexican Timeshares" forum. This thread is about Mexico Timesharing.

The lounge is about discussions that don't fit into the other defined forum areas. It's not a place to hide discussions you don't want to see.

Probably due to the fact that you live so close to the border you have more exposure than the average guy hence the unhealthy attraction to the topic. I still believe that the thread has nothing to do with how millions of tourists experience Mexico. Particularly those that travel to TSs that choose to abide by basic safety rules.
Of course your motives seem very transparent even if you want to dress your comments as scientific curiosity.

You would probably be disturbed by a thread named "Crimes in California" with links to gang crimes in your state. I know, that would be just to test why people feel (un) safe when travelling to CA! By the way, when I went to San Francisco, in certain areas I felt much less safe that the places i visited in Mexico.
 
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Steve Fatula

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You would probably be disturbed by a thread named "Crimes in California" with links to gang crimes in your state. I know, that would be just to test why people feel (un) safe when travelling to CA! By the way, when I went to San Francisco, in certain areas I felt much less safe that the places i visited in Mexico.

Never felt unsafe in Mexico, and was especially taken care of during 9/11 when we were in Cabo. We had to drive the Baja to get back to the states and walk across the border. Lots of armed Mexican police on the way, no trouble. Of course, that trip was a long time ago but I very much appreciated the hospitality we got.

Regarding California, I take that with a grain of salt also. One time we were at a conference in San Jose. I was looking for places to eat and found a highly rated restaurant. Every local I told was telling me I can't go there, it was too dangerous. So, I of course went. It's San Jose. Sure enough, got there, and the only thing I saw were lots of people from differnet ethnicities, including mine (white). No trouble at all. I took the comments regarding how unsafe it was as being from suburban richer folks who simply did not appreciate being in the city with others unlike them (as that was the crowd at the conference). I grew up in Cleveland Ohio, city. Every group hated every group. If I walked on Hough Avenue at the time, I would not have come home almost certainly. Same thing if I went down to W 25st St. That was not San Jose, or at least the area I was in. Sometimes, comments from locals, who you might think know more about the area, have to be filtered.
 

easyrider

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This will be your opinion until you personally have a situation that changes your mind, and that's ok.

I am deeply troubled by the first hand reports I receive. The fact that 2 priests or has it been 3 murdered in the last month? I guess that makes it local on local crime. I know people who own T/S in MX and won't be returning. Actually every US Citizen that I know who has personally experienced crime in MX have chosen not to return. Some were in resorts. Some were their for humanitarian reasons.

AZ has suffered a lose in tourism in recent years a couple of times due to reports, policies and boycotting. Policies were changed. We depend on our visitors. Would MX work to improve if they felt a similar economic lose?

I think so and my personal situation has changed regarding Mexico. I am more concerned about medical care and not so concerned about being a cartel victim.

Many tourists do not realize that many of the newer medical centers in Mexico are for big profit and are not as comprehensive as in the states. If a tourist ends up in a hospital they usually have to show they can pay before being treated. The access to medical devices and testing procedures at many facilities is not as good as in the states. That being said, the care is better than nothing and a person with trip insurance that covers medical expenses and repatriation efforts can reduce the costs and stress.

If a tourist passes away in Mexico it can be a long and costly process getting them back to the states. A couple of years ago one of my friends dad passed away near PV at a resort and it took a couple of months to get him back. The hospital doctor decided he had a cold and he went back to the resort and his heart gave out. He didn't have trip insurance and before he could be sent back all of his bills needed to be paid.

I have experienced petty crime and corruption in Mexico but I have experienced the same thing in the USA. That doesn't bother me. The killings in certain areas of Mexico bother me enough that I try not to hang out in areas where this happens and never at the time of day when this type of thing happens more frequently. I do the same everywhere.

Bill
 

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This thread is about people's fears of traveling to Mexico, and the reasons why they have such fears. This is the Mexico Timesharing forum, not the "How to Stay Safe When Traveling to Mexican Timeshares" forum. This thread is about Mexico Timesharing.

The lounge is about discussions that don't fit into the other defined forum areas. It's not a place to hide discussions you don't want to see.

There is a saying from Toyota leadership that I believe is right on and fits this discussion. The saying is "You don't understand unless you have been to Gemba." IOW, if you want to understand the truth, you have to go to the source. That's why the huge majority of people that visit Mexico aren't fearful of going - they know the situation first hand. So why are there such paranoiac fear in others particularly it seems to many on TUG outside the Mexico forums. In my opinion, there are three primary reasons.

1: The state of journalism in this country that is focused on sensationalism to sell papers and propaganda to sell personal agendas of the reporters and/or management. Incidences related to Drug wars and the violence surrounding it sell and people seem to soak it up. Thirty minutes ago in Dallas, a person targeted and rammed his car into a restaurant killing a few people. Things like this are common place these days in every city - but I doubt if I will hear about it again - will be old news by tomorrow and will not even be reported outside the area. Imagine if a drug dealer had rammed his car and killed three other rival drug dealers near a Mexican resort. That one incident would be all over news outlets (and this forum) within minutes striking fear into many and shrugs from us who go there.

2: The US State Department will take incidences like this and slap warnings all over the place - and people believe the State department really does due diligence. A few years ago, our beloved bureaucratic state department was warning us during the Swine flu epidemic not to travel from Texas with the flu rampant to Cabo where there was not a single case in the entire state. Huh!!!

3: Many people simply like to spread their paranoia to others who will believe it if they have no personal reason not to. Years ago, my daughter was actually petrified going with us to our resort based on all the statements from her coworkers and friends. She went and now wants to go all the time. I think these people that spread this fear mean well but are susceptible and buy into the sensationalist culture around the drug wars - which is of course fed by number 1 above fueling it seems a never ending cycle.

Just my opinion,
Mike
 

Egret1986

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Both of the posts below make a lot of sense. No bashing or name calling to get their points across. Good sound advice.

I went for the first time in January to Cancun. We had a wonderful time. Then shortly after our vacation, we started hearing about the violence in Cancun and were quite surprised. Will I be returning? Maybe. :shrug: Am I influenced by the crime reports? Not really. I have so much exploring still to do inside and outside the US. Mexico just isn't on the radar for the next couple of years.

I appreciate the sharing of information and opinions. :thumbup:

There is a saying from Toyota leadership that I believe is right on and fits this discussion. The saying is "You don't understand unless you have been to Gemba." IOW, if you want to understand the truth, you have to go to the source. That's why the huge majority of people that visit Mexico aren't fearful of going - they know the situation first hand. So why are there such paranoiac fear in others particularly it seems to many on TUG outside the Mexico forums. In my opinion, there are three primary reasons.

1: The state of journalism in this country that is focused on sensationalism to sell papers and propaganda to sell personal agendas of the reporters and/or management. Incidences related to Drug wars and the violence surrounding it sell and people seem to soak it up. Thirty minutes ago in Dallas, a person targeted and rammed his car into a restaurant killing a few people. Things like this are common place these days in every city - but I doubt if I will hear about it again - will be old news by tomorrow and will not even be reported outside the area. Imagine if a drug dealer had rammed his car and killed three other rival drug dealers near a Mexican resort. That one incident would be all over news outlets (and this forum) within minutes striking fear into many and shrugs from us who go there.

2: The US State Department will take incidences like this and slap warnings all over the place - and people believe the State department really does due diligence. A few years ago, our beloved bureaucratic state department was warning us during the Swine flu epidemic not to travel from Texas with the flu rampant to Cabo where there was not a single case in the entire state. Huh!!!

3: Many people simply like to spread their paranoia to others who will believe it if they have no personal reason not to. Years ago, my daughter was actually petrified going with us to our resort based on all the statements from her coworkers and friends. She went and now wants to go all the time. I think these people that spread this fear mean well but are susceptible and buy into the sensationalist culture around the drug wars - which is of course fed by number 1 above fueling it seems a never ending cycle.

Just my opinion,
Mike



Never felt unsafe in Mexico, and was especially taken care of during 9/11 when we were in Cabo. We had to drive the Baja to get back to the states and walk across the border. Lots of armed Mexican police on the way, no trouble. Of course, that trip was a long time ago but I very much appreciated the hospitality we got.

Regarding California, I take that with a grain of salt also. One time we were at a conference in San Jose. I was looking for places to eat and found a highly rated restaurant. Every local I told was telling me I can't go there, it was too dangerous. So, I of course went. It's San Jose. Sure enough, got there, and the only thing I saw were lots of people from differnet ethnicities, including mine (white). No trouble at all. I took the comments regarding how unsafe it was as being from suburban richer folks who simply did not appreciate being in the city with others unlike them (as that was the crowd at the conference). I grew up in Cleveland Ohio, city. Every group hated every group. If I walked on Hough Avenue at the time, I would not have come home almost certainly. Same thing if I went down to W 25st St. That was not San Jose, or at least the area I was in. Sometimes, comments from locals, who you might think know more about the area, have to be filtered.
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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There is a saying from Toyota leadership that I believe is right on and fits this discussion. The saying is "You don't understand unless you have been to Gemba." IOW, if you want to understand the truth, you have to go to the source. That's why the huge majority of people that visit Mexico aren't fearful of going - they know the situation first hand. So why are there such paranoiac fear in others particularly it seems to many on TUG outside the Mexico forums. In my opinion, there are three primary reasons.

1: The state of journalism in this country that is focused on sensationalism to sell papers and propaganda to sell personal agendas of the reporters and/or management. Incidences related to Drug wars and the violence surrounding it sell and people seem to soak it up. Thirty minutes ago in Dallas, a person targeted and rammed his car into a restaurant killing a few people. Things like this are common place these days in every city - but I doubt if I will hear about it again - will be old news by tomorrow and will not even be reported outside the area. Imagine if a drug dealer had rammed his car and killed three other rival drug dealers near a Mexican resort. That one incident would be all over news outlets (and this forum) within minutes striking fear into many and shrugs from us who go there.

2: The US State Department will take incidences like this and slap warnings all over the place - and people believe the State department really does due diligence. A few years ago, our beloved bureaucratic state department was warning us during the Swine flu epidemic not to travel from Texas with the flu rampant to Cabo where there was not a single case in the entire state. Huh!!!

3: Many people simply like to spread their paranoia to others who will believe it if they have no personal reason not to. Years ago, my daughter was actually petrified going with us to our resort based on all the statements from her coworkers and friends. She went and now wants to go all the time. I think these people that spread this fear mean well but are susceptible and buy into the sensationalist culture around the drug wars - which is of course fed by number 1 above fueling it seems a never ending cycle.

Just my opinion,
Mike
Recalls Mark Twain's observation that "Travel is fatal to prejudice."
 

TravelTime

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Probably due to the fact that you live so close to the border you have more exposure than the average guy hence the unhealthy attraction to the topic. I still believe that the thread has nothing to do with how millions of tourists experience Mexico. Particularly those that travel to TSs that choose to abide by basic safety rules.
Of course your motives seem very transparent even if you want to dress your comments as scientific curiosity.

You would probably be disturbed by a thread named "Crimes in California" with links to gang crimes in your state. I know, that would be just to test why people feel (un) safe when travelling to CA! By the way, when I went to San Francisco, in certain areas I felt much less safe that the places i visited in Mexico.

I would absolutely love a thread on Crime in California with links to gangs. This would be fascinating since I live in California. DannyTS, maybe you can start one on the West Coast Timesharing list or on TUG Lounge. Just be sure to get reputable news sources and not stuff off of Facebook or fake new sites.

I totally agree with you that San Francisco is scary. We never go to San Francisco unless forced by out of state guests.

I found your comment about the "unhealthy attraction to the topic" to be humorous and ironic because you are very actively involved in posting on this topic. Maybe we all have an unhealthy attraction to reading about crime and murder! LOL :crash:
 

TravelTime

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Never felt unsafe in Mexico, and was especially taken care of during 9/11 when we were in Cabo. We had to drive the Baja to get back to the states and walk across the border. Lots of armed Mexican police on the way, no trouble. Of course, that trip was a long time ago but I very much appreciated the hospitality we got.

Regarding California, I take that with a grain of salt also. One time we were at a conference in San Jose. I was looking for places to eat and found a highly rated restaurant. Every local I told was telling me I can't go there, it was too dangerous. So, I of course went. It's San Jose. Sure enough, got there, and the only thing I saw were lots of people from differnet ethnicities, including mine (white). No trouble at all. I took the comments regarding how unsafe it was as being from suburban richer folks who simply did not appreciate being in the city with others unlike them (as that was the crowd at the conference). I grew up in Cleveland Ohio, city. Every group hated every group. If I walked on Hough Avenue at the time, I would not have come home almost certainly. Same thing if I went down to W 25st St. That was not San Jose, or at least the area I was in. Sometimes, comments from locals, who you might think know more about the area, have to be filtered.

There are some dangerous areas in East San Jose. Downtown San Jose used to be dangerous too but it is being developed now. However, we never go to downtown San Jose or East San Jose. Too sketchy. East San Jose and some other areas have a lot of gang activity. I used to work in a school in an upscale part of San Jose called Willow Glen. In the San Jose School District, they allow people to go to any district school. We had many gang problems with the kids and many came from broken homes and were abused children. So sad. Many people who live in Willow Glen will not send their children to school there so the high school population is very diverse. We do not live in San Jose ourselves but our town is close by. When I worked at the Willow Glen High School, some kids smashed the back window of my car. I was glad to leave that job as soon as I could. I never felt safe on or around the campus.
 

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I would absolutely love a thread on Crime in California with links to gangs. This would be fascinating since I live in California. DannyTS, maybe you can start one on the West Coast Timesharing list or on TUG Lounge. Just be sure to get reputable news sources and not stuff off of Facebook or fake new sites.

I totally agree with you that San Francisco is scary. We never go to San Francisco unless forced by out of state guests.

I found your comment about the "unhealthy attraction to the topic" to be humorous and ironic because you are very actively involved in posting on this topic.

lol i seem to run into it all too often. I would rather look at this
landscape-1506017271-gettyimages-532061691.jpg


or this.
5.jpg
 

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There is a saying from Toyota leadership that I believe is right on and fits this discussion. The saying is "You don't understand unless you have been to Gemba." IOW, if you want to understand the truth, you have to go to the source. That's why the huge majority of people that visit Mexico aren't fearful of going - they know the situation first hand. So why are there such paranoiac fear in others particularly it seems to many on TUG outside the Mexico forums. In my opinion, there are three primary reasons.

1: The state of journalism in this country that is focused on sensationalism to sell papers and propaganda to sell personal agendas of the reporters and/or management. Incidences related to Drug wars and the violence surrounding it sell and people seem to soak it up. Thirty minutes ago in Dallas, a person targeted and rammed his car into a restaurant killing a few people. Things like this are common place these days in every city - but I doubt if I will hear about it again - will be old news by tomorrow and will not even be reported outside the area. Imagine if a drug dealer had rammed his car and killed three other rival drug dealers near a Mexican resort. That one incident would be all over news outlets (and this forum) within minutes striking fear into many and shrugs from us who go there.

2: The US State Department will take incidences like this and slap warnings all over the place - and people believe the State department really does due diligence. A few years ago, our beloved bureaucratic state department was warning us during the Swine flu epidemic not to travel from Texas with the flu rampant to Cabo where there was not a single case in the entire state. Huh!!!

3: Many people simply like to spread their paranoia to others who will believe it if they have no personal reason not to. Years ago, my daughter was actually petrified going with us to our resort based on all the statements from her coworkers and friends. She went and now wants to go all the time. I think these people that spread this fear mean well but are susceptible and buy into the sensationalist culture around the drug wars - which is of course fed by number 1 above fueling it seems a never ending cycle.

Just my opinion,
Mike

I disagree with you. It is very difficult to get accurate news about crime in Mexico. The US media that I read - NY Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, etc. rarely write about it. When they do report on it, it becomes old news just as fast as school shootings. This is completely off topic but the Royal Marriage got more coverage than the school shooting in Texas. I subscribe to Mexico News Daily to keep up on what's happening in Mexico just because I have a morbid curiosity. The narcos fascinate me. I watched the Netflix series and thoroughly enjoyed it. Remember The Godfather series? People love to read and watch crime shows and movies. Frankly, I have no fear of traveling to Mexico. I went by myself in January. I have been to Mexico several times by myself as a woman, even to Acapulco. Things have happened and I have had to defend myself. I have probably been to Mexico at least 15 times in my life. Given how bad things are getting in Mexico, we decided to shift travel to new places until Mexico gets its act together. However, I suspect we will be back in the next few years because we have close friends who own 2 acres of beachfront land in Mazatlan and they have invited us to visit.
 
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