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Minimum purchase to enroll a PIC

Jimag

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I didn't interpret the requirements related to the PIC Plus Membership Enrollment Fee as stating the fee was applied to each PICed week like the $89 transfer fee. I thought the Membership Fee was just that a fee for membership in the program without regard to whether you PICed one or two weeks. Of course, this matter is moot, if Wyndham doesn't apply the requirements according to their plain meaning, as reported earlier in this thread. And you couldn't argue the plain meaning of the words, because the PIC program is discretionary, although I would consider it to be bad faith if Wyndham, faced with the argument that the PIC membership fee is an alternative to a new purchase of direct points, said something like "oh yeah, not any longer."

CCdad had an interesting post a few minutes ago. He "recalls that owners of fixed weeks at legacy Wyndham resorts were charged the $2,395 fee to convert their fixed week contract into points (VIP qualfying points). With a new developer purchase you could negotiate to have the $2,395 fee waived just like for the PIC Plus fee." Maybe the answer is suggested by CCdad's recollection and the language in the Directory and the PIC Application form posted earlier by Richelle reflects sloppy draftsmanship.

Here's a thought -- from an accounting perspective the membership fees would go into one category and marketing and sales expenses, including commissions, would go into another, wouldn't they? That may mean paying the membership fee as an alternative would cut out the marketing and sales unit at Wyndham but still credit Wyndham with a hefty fee with only processing costs.
 

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Per Wyndham Destinations Owner Care, to use PIC Plus requires a developer purchase.
 

Jimag

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Per Wyndham Destinations Owner Care, to use PIC Plus requires a developer purchase.
I'm not surprised to hear that. They should amend the language in the Directory and the PIC Application form.
 

bendadin

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Per Wyndham Destinations Owner Care, to use PIC Plus requires a developer purchase.

And I got this from Owner's Care: "In our contract standards an owner may bring in 2 PIC properties with a minimum purchase of 98,000 points. It does not say anything about the amount of points per PIC."
 

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And I got this from Owner's Care: "In our contract standards an owner may bring in 2 PIC properties with a minimum purchase of 98,000 points. It does not say anything about the amount of points per PIC."

Telesales tells me it’s 49,000 points whether you are enrolling one or two. They are the ones that sell these things. I think they’d know a bit more about sales the owner care. :)
 

Jimag

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As I said before, they need to update the language in both the Member's Directory and the PIC Application. It would be a good thing to do it before putting the new Directory in print.
 

Jimag

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And I got this from Owner's Care: "In our contract standards an owner may bring in 2 PIC properties with a minimum purchase of 98,000 points. It does not say anything about the amount of points per PIC."
By the way, did they say who pays the PIC Membership fee for what reason? The answer can't be it's waived for a new point purchase because that would beg the question of whether it's possible to pay the Membership fee in lieu of a purchase.
 

Jimag

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Telesales tells me it’s 49,000 points whether you are enrolling one or two. They are the ones that sell these things. I think they’d know a bit more about sales the owner care. :)
I agree with that, but what does this disconnect indicate?
 

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I agree with that, but what does this disconnect indicate?[/QUOTE

I'll answer that myself -- it appears to me that many of the folks Wyndham hires to interface with us really don't understand the program or that they are given deficient guidance on the program and how to answer our questions. What's more it also appears that the folks who are writing the rules may not fully understand what the purpose of the PIC program really is. It's either that or that they can't put it into words.
 

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Jan M.

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I followed the link for the new directory that Richelle posted on the Alexandria vs another location thread. It does confirm that a week for PIC plus cannot be an RCI points week. So as an OP said you would have to take the week out of points. Our week in PIC was an RCI points week but it was either 10 or 12 years ago that we enrolled our week and as I've told the resort sold so we've no longer had that PIC week since 2014. I believe the PIC program changed since then, maybe when they added PIC Express? Wyndham will take points for PIC Express so they aren't as selective as they are with PIC Plus. I also noticed when I read the new directory that is says that PIC Plus weeks will be subject to an annual verification process but says for PIC Express that they may be.

Some of the information in the new directory appears confusing. It says that PIC Plus counts towards VIP status and lets you use those PIC weeks as Wyndham points if you choose to do so. It goes on to say that for PIC Express weeks the value of the allocated points will only count toward your 5 year VIP status and you pay .58 per thousand points. It doesn't say that you get to use those points as Wyndham points. Can someone who actually has PIC Express clarify this part?
 

Richelle

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I followed the link for the new directory that Richelle posted on the Alexandria vs another location thread. It does confirm that a week for PIC plus cannot be an RCI points week. So as an OP said you would have to take the week out of points. Our week in PIC was an RCI points week but it was either 10 or 12 years ago that we enrolled our week and as I've told the resort sold so we've no longer had that PIC week since 2014. I believe the PIC program changed since then, maybe when they added PIC Express? Wyndham will take points for PIC Express so they aren't as selective as they are with PIC Plus. I also noticed when I read the new directory that is says that PIC Plus weeks will be subject to an annual verification process but says for PIC Express that they may be.

Some of the information in the new directory appears confusing. It says that PIC Plus counts towards VIP status and lets you use those PIC weeks as Wyndham points if you choose to do so. It goes on to say that for PIC Express weeks the value of the allocated points will only count toward your 5 year VIP status and you pay .58 per thousand points. It doesn't say that you get to use those points as Wyndham points. Can someone who actually has PIC Express clarify this part?
Yes, with PIC Express, you cannot use those points for booking. Most people would only use PIC Express if their week doesn’t otherwise qualify. RCI points contract wouldn’t qualify but you can use it in PIC express for VIP status. You just cannot use them for bookings. That’s been confirmed to me from multiple
People.
 

bendadin

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Some of the information in the new directory appears confusing. It says that PIC Plus counts towards VIP status and lets you use those PIC weeks as Wyndham points if you choose to do so. It goes on to say that for PIC Express weeks the value of the allocated points will only count toward your 5 year VIP status and you pay .58 per thousand points. It doesn't say that you get to use those points as Wyndham points. Can someone who actually has PIC Express clarify this part?

So after this PIC Express fiasco, we came away that PIC Express would give you the "credit" for the points but you cannot deposit the points for use in the Wyndham system. For instance, I have 3 contracts with DVC. They were trying PIC Express 2 of the contracts. It wasn't until hours later did they say that it would only be for temporary silver and a new purchase is needed at the end of the 5 years and maybe that $2395 fee to boot. They know that they can't sell DVC points. So PIC Express is for those who want/need VIP credit but their ownership doesn't fit into the Plus parameters. Where it fell apart was in their assessment of the points. They were saying that one contract is worth 254k whereas another contract is worth 154k. Anyone who knows DVC knows that life doesn't revolve around bedroom size or weeks. So they were trying to put a square peg in a round hole. BUT, I'm keeping those contracts anyway and I'm paying MF on those contracts and using the points. So it an ends to a mean, sort of.

Still a horrible path when compared to Plus, though.
 

Lisa P

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Is this correct (below)?

PIC Plus is most similar to the old PIC program?
Anyone can make a Wyndham points developer purchase, enroll their non-Wyndham, non-Points ownerships to make them eligible for annual optional deposit with Wyndham in exchange for Wyndham points, and benefit from VIP levels commensurate with the collective maximum annual Wyndham points they'd have if they chose to deposit all of their PIC'ed weeks.

PIC Express takes some of the features from three old programs: PlusPartners, Discovery, and PIC?
With old PlusPartners, fixed week or resale Wyndham owners paid a $2,395 fee to Wyndham corporate (not Sales) to make their account eligible for certain developer-points-purchase benefits. Back then, the desired benefit was mostly access to the new RCI Points system and PlusPartners points-for-airfare/hotel/airfare/tickets options. With PIC Express, the desired benefit would be temporary VIP status. Bach then, Sales did not promote way of obtaining PlusPartners without a developer purchase either - you had to know to ask for it or seek it directly from corporate.
With old Discovery, potential buyers paid a fee to Sales for temporary/one-or-two year use of points to either try out Club Wyndham or to try out VIP benefits if the Discovery points increased their account to a new VIP level. With PIC Express, there's a temporary aspect to the benefits with a 5-year limit.
With old PIC, a designated Wyndham points value for each PIC'ed non-Wyndham timeshare week was included when counting up the number of eligible points in a Wyndham account to determine VIP levels.
Other features of all of these old programs are not necessarily part of PIC Express.

(above paragraph edited)
It’s 49,000 new points to enroll up to 2 PIC Plus/Express properties.
...Owner's Care: "In our contract standards an owner may bring in 2 PIC properties with a minimum purchase of 98,000 points."
Telesales tells me it’s 49,000 points whether you are enrolling one or two.
If there is more than one way to enroll in PIC Express, then either side may have their own references as well as some leeway to offer a deal better than what's in the reference. It's possible that Wyndham corporate (Owner Care?) was referencing rules for PIC Plus or old rules for PIC or just some standard explanation info. It's possible that a Salesperson (either SalesWeasel or TeleTales ;)) is able to offer a better deal at times to entice a potential buyer who has a particular objection (ex., one enrolled timeshare would not have enough points value to attain the next VIP level but they won't pay for two). It's curious that the two quoted figures above are multiples of each other (49K x 2 = 98K) and the person who quoted 98K was addressing a possible PIC express of 2 contracts.

PIC Express looks like a potentially effective sales tool. Wyndham already sells a lot of developer points to current owners. They benefit if owners have time to learn about VIP benefits and grow accustomed to using them, perhaps become more willing to make a developer purchase later. Even when PIC Express does not produce future sales, Wyndham corporate will have received PIC Express fee$ from people to whom Sales were unable to sell more product.
 
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ecwinch

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Is this correct (below)?

PIC Plus is most similar to the old PIC program?
Anyone can make a Wyndham points developer purchase, enroll their non-Wyndham, non-Points ownerships to make them eligible for annual optional deposit with Wyndham in exchange for Wyndham points, and benefit from VIP levels commensurate with the collective maximum annual Wyndham points they'd have if they chose to deposit all of their PIC'ed weeks.

PIC Express takes some features from three old programs, PlusPartners, Discovery, and PIC?
With old PlusPartners, fixed week or resale Wyndham owners paid a $2,395 fee to Wyndham corporate (not Sales) to make their account eligible for developer-points-purchase benefits. Back then, it was mostly access to the new RCI Points system and PlusPartners points-for-airfare/hotel/airfare/tickets options. Sales did not promote this - you had to know to ask for it or seek it directly from corporate.
With old Discovery, potential buyers paid a fee to Sales for one-time use of points to either try out Club Wyndham or to try out VIP benefits if the Discovery points increased their account to a new VIP level.


The mechanism is not that you deposit the the week with Wyndham. You deposit the week with RCI, and then after you make the deposit, you call Wyndham and they exchange your deposited RCI week for Wyndham points. This is the reason that the timeshare has to be an RCI resort, and I believe - the reason it has to be a deeded week.

Also - I am not sure I see that PIC Express provides the benefits described. I might be wrong, but I dont believe that if I had 300k resale points, and PIC Express'd a deeded week for 200k that I could use PlusPartners as described. Someone will certainly correct me, but I believe only your developer purchased points are eligible for PlusPartners - and a resale owner would not have developer purchased points.
 
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Lisa P

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The mechanism is... You deposit the week with RCI, and then after you make the deposit, you call Wyndham and they exchange your deposited RCI week for Wyndham points.
Thank you. Different mechanism, same result, in that you give up your use of the PIC'ed week and your Wyndham account receives Wyndham points in return.

...[not sure] that PIC Express provides the benefits described.... I dont believe that if I had 300k resale points, and PIC Express'd a deeded week for 200k that I could use PlusPartners as described. Someone will certainly correct me, but I believe only your developer purchased points are eligible for PlusPartners...
That's correct. I've updated my post to indicate that PIC Express only takes some of the features of each of those old programs. PIC Express does not provide PlusPartner access... I meant that it has a similar $2,395 fee through corporate and Sales does not promote this avenue to PIC Express although it seems to be referenced in Wyndham materials. Thank you.
 

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Different mechanism, same result, in that you give up your use of the PIC'ed week and your Wyndham account receives Wyndham points in return.
Just to be clear for the readers. It’s not different mechanism, same result
The mechanism ecwinch layed out is the only mechanism to turn your PIC plus week into Wyndham points.
There’s only one way not multiple ways
 

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I have a PIC question. How would EOY weeks be treated? Would I only get 1/2 credit toward the next VIP level?
 

Lisa P

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The mechanism ecwinch layed out is the only mechanism to turn your PIC plus week into Wyndham points.
There’s only one way not multiple ways

Today, yes. :)

We never used the PIC program. So I cannot confirm this firsthand. However, a long time ago, there were posts on TUG and on another timesharing forum indicating that Wyndham (then called "Fairfield") did not always deposit PIC'ed weeks into RCI. I believe that in the original old PIC program, Wyndham/Fairfield had the options to rent those weeks out directly to renters or to assign them to RCI rental venues, in addition to their use in RCI exchange inventory.

Today's PIC Plus and PIC Express programs don't do this if the only mechanism for assigning a PIC'ed week to Wyndham is to deposit it first with RCI. Thanks for the clarity.
 

bendadin

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But now you have to make a developer purchase for PIC Express so wouldn't you then get PlusPartners?

Our case: PIC Express DVC 1 for 254k and DVC 2 for 154k (I can't seem to figure out how they came up with those numbers anyway.) So they said that minimum purchase would be 105k (incorrect.) The 408k that counts toward VIP doesn't transfer in (well in DVC case, that is) so then the 105k made us temporary silver with bonus points of temporary gold. That temporary word was the undoing of the whole deal. We were adamant in our questions that it was permanent gold and they told us time and time again that it was, UNTIL it was being recorded. That is when the truth came out.
 

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Sorry if this has already been answered. Is the pic program something Wyndham can change? Can they disallow you to deposit those weeks in the future and take away VIP status? I'm with Ron that it probably still doesn't make sense but I might do it anyways if I know I'll have it long term.
 

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Agree the number one reason to get to Gold or especially Platinum is the point deposit feature.
With the credit pool it didn’t matter if you had all resale or Platinum for planning your point usage.


It never would have occurred to me that the points deposit feature was that valuable. Everybody gets to March ; right?

I would think that most timeshare owners would have made their vacation plans for the rest of the year by then

My problem always was I didn’t have enough points and pulled points from future years. That was valuable to me. But to be able to roll points forward... not so much

Of course I never had to work under the new system. So I don’t know. No doubt I’m out of touch, now
 

Richelle

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Is this correct (below)?

PIC Plus is most similar to the old PIC program?
Anyone can make a Wyndham points developer purchase, enroll their non-Wyndham, non-Points ownerships to make them eligible for annual optional deposit with Wyndham in exchange for Wyndham points, and benefit from VIP levels commensurate with the collective maximum annual Wyndham points they'd have if they chose to deposit all of their PIC'ed weeks.

PIC Express takes some of the features from three old programs: PlusPartners, Discovery, and PIC?
With old PlusPartners, fixed week or resale Wyndham owners paid a $2,395 fee to Wyndham corporate (not Sales) to make their account eligible for certain developer-points-purchase benefits. Back then, the desired benefit was mostly access to the new RCI Points system and PlusPartners points-for-airfare/hotel/airfare/tickets options. With PIC Express, the desired benefit would be temporary VIP status. Bach then, Sales did not promote way of obtaining PlusPartners without a developer purchase either - you had to know to ask for it or seek it directly from corporate.
With old Discovery, potential buyers paid a fee to Sales for temporary/one-or-two year use of points to either try out Club Wyndham or to try out VIP benefits if the Discovery points increased their account to a new VIP level. With PIC Express, there's a temporary aspect to the benefits with a 5-year limit.
With old PIC, a designated Wyndham points value for each PIC'ed non-Wyndham timeshare week was included when counting up the number of eligible points in a Wyndham account to determine VIP levels.
Other features of all of these old programs are not necessarily part of PIC Express.

(above paragraph edited)



If there is more than one way to enroll in PIC Express, then either side may have their own references as well as some leeway to offer a deal better than what's in the reference. It's possible that Wyndham corporate (Owner Care?) was referencing rules for PIC Plus or old rules for PIC or just some standard explanation info. It's possible that a Salesperson (either SalesWeasel or TeleTales ;)) is able to offer a better deal at times to entice a potential buyer who has a particular objection (ex., one enrolled timeshare would not have enough points value to attain the next VIP level but they won't pay for two). It's curious that the two quoted figures above are multiples of each other (49K x 2 = 98K) and the person who quoted 98K was addressing a possible PIC express of 2 contracts.

PIC Express looks like a potentially effective sales tool. Wyndham already sells a lot of developer points to current owners. They benefit if owners have time to learn about VIP benefits and grow accustomed to using them, perhaps become more willing to make a developer purchase later. Even when PIC Express does not produce future sales, Wyndham corporate will have received PIC Express fee$ from people to whom Sales were unable to sell more product.
Just to be clear, there are currently two PIC programs. One PIC Plus and the other PIC Express. PIC express is not new. Neither is PIC Plus. Both have been around for awhile and still exist.
 
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Richelle

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It never would have occurred to me that the points deposit feature was that valuable. Everybody gets to March ; right?

I would think that most timeshare owners would have made their vacation plans for the rest of the year by then

My problem always was I didn’t have enough points and pulled points from future years. That was valuable to me. But to be able to roll points forward... not so much

Of course I never had to work under the new system. So I don’t know. No doubt I’m out of touch, now


We also have our vacation plans planned ahead as well. But sometimes we have left over points or a trip gets canceled. Having extra time gives us a chance to work out what to do with the extra points. As it is now, we have the next two years vacation plans laid out, but things change.

When our vacation plans started getting bigger we bought more points. PIC points are cheaper then regular points if you do it right. My four bedroom is $850 a year. I spent $28 on it and I get 254,000 points. My MF on those points are cheaper then my national harbor points. So not only is PIC the cheapest way to get Silver, it’s also cheaper in MF then buying the equivalent amount of points at a low MF resort. I can sit here and tell you 500,000 national harbor points is $5,000 on eBay, but the maintenance fees are more expensive, yadayada. It’s a matter of what fits for you. If you don’t care about VIP, club Pass, or Plus Partners, then just go straight resale. You don’t have to worry about deposits, exchanges, whatever. For me, the VIP at such a cheap rate, and the low MF, is worth dealing with all that. Plus my four bedroom is a gold crown in Williamsburg which is within driving distance of me. I can choose to use my fixed week instead. Plus, the MF are cheaper. Upfront costs are one time, MF are for as long as you own.
 

Braindead

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It never would have occurred to me that the points deposit feature was that valuable. Everybody gets to March ; right?

I would think that most timeshare owners would have made their vacation plans for the rest of the year by then

My problem always was I didn’t have enough points and pulled points from future years. That was valuable to me. But to be able to roll points forward... not so much

Of course I never had to work under the new system. So I don’t know. No doubt I’m out of touch, now
Being Platinum allows an owner to reserve anything through the end of the year with the peace of mind you can cancel any reservation without the risk of losing those points at year end. I don’t use RCI. RCI is a waste to me outside of last calls.

You can reserve all possible units that you might need for a family reunion or any other big get together without worrying about who can’t make it months in advance

The more points you have the more valuable it is to me. Have reservations to rent for the holidays. They don’t get rented no problem cancel and deposit the points.

I have said it before— I don’t think owners fully understand how big of a benefit it is for Gold and Platinum owners. A resale owner decides that they don’t need any more points this year and deposit their points in March. In June friends call do you want to meet up at x resort in December I see there’s some availability. Oh no we have no points we put them into next year. I think a lot more points will be lost at years end than owners think.

Like I posted before with the credit pool it didn’t matter. Now its a big decision for resale and Silver owners.

Even if Platinum uses points at year end for MFs. That’s better than the points expiring
 
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