Most Affordable Way to Get in to Vistana w/Ability to [exchange] Weeks

[LivninSC]

First off sorry for the long post but I'm trying to get it all in one and who knows maybe help someone else that is thinking what I'm thinking. I tried to find a similar thread in this forum but couldn't so hopefully this hasn't all been asked before.

We went to a Vistana timeshare presentation recently and came away from it with a pretty positive view of the program overall. The obvious downside is the cost they try to sell it to you at.

We would realistically use it at the properties on Kauai or Maui a majority of the time so we'd need a minimum of ~81k points for a week in a one bedroom but would be open to buying more points so that we would use it more than a week a year or bring the in-laws and get a 2 bedroom for a week.

Initially I was just thinking we could buy on the resale market and use the points to book the property we wanted to but discovered that they have 1st right of refusals at the properties we would likely use them at (so who knows what that actually results in being available at a good price assuming Vistana would just snatch them up when you go to buy them) and the whole "mandatory" vs "voluntary" designation which if I understand correctly means that you may or may not be able to use your points at the property of your choice.

So knowing that we'd like to possibly get ~81k to ~148k StarOptions a year and be able to use them at the properties in Maui and Kauai along with others less often I started looking for a property that didn't have a First Right of Refusal clause and was a Mandatory resort.

In looking at the First Right of Refusal properties they (from what I could find) are:

• Westin Kaanapali Ocean Resort Villas
• Westin Kaanapali Ocean Resort Villas North
• Westin Princeville Ocean Resort Villas
• Westin Mission Hills in Palm Desert, California

In looking at the Mandatory resorts the FAQ page lists them as:

• Harborside at Atlantis
• Vistana Villages (Bella and Key West phases only)
• Westin St. John (Virgin Grand - Hillside only)
• Westin Ka'anapali & Westin Ka'anapali-North
• Westin Kierland Villas

With my need to use the StarOptions at various properties buying at a Mandatory resort on the resale market (again assuming I understand properly) seems to be the most important thing (excluding cost ).

Given that I started looking around and found the following for some examples (that they couldn't snatch up through FROR):
Harborside at Atlantis - $12,500 for an annual 148,100 points & $3,100 maintenance
Westin Kierland Villas - $17,000 for an annual 148,100 points & $1,500 maintenance
or
Harborside at Atlantis - $6,000 for an annual 81,000 points & $1,750 maintenance
Westin Kierland Villas - $13,000 for an annual 81,000 points & $600 maintenance

The Westin Mission Hills would actually be a better resort for us to purchase if everything else was equal as we would probably use it here and there whereas we'd probably never go to Kierland but I can't find the points listed in the for sale ads for those units so I chose Kierland for this example as those did.

I read to check on the desert properties as the maintenance is lower for them and that definitely seems to be true, and could possibly be the reason for the higher price of what I could find. So assuming we would keep it for awhile and that the lower maintenance costs would offset the increase in price for us and knowing that I would actually want to use these mostly on Hawaii for us am I going about this right? Would the best option (of these examples) be to buy one of the Kierlands and 8 months out just logon to the Vistana site and book at the resort of our choice? Any other suggestions for a better example? I found the Vistana Villages at Key West (which is supposedly a Mandatory resort) for $4k for 81k annual points & $1,100 maintenance which is even better then the Harborside 81k point option (although hurricanes admittedly scare be a bit about owning there) but I'm curious if there are any usual resorts that are the best type of deal for what I'm trying to do.

In all honesty in just comparing the cost of this against a VRBO which where we go would usually run about $2k for a 2 bedroom for a week (with taxes and fees) I don't know if it's worth it but the Vistana properties in general do seem to have more amenities and more availability which is admittedly nice so I'd be ok with paying a bit of a premium. I met a lot of owners when we were staying in Hawaii last time and they all seemed very happy with their purchase and the maintenance fees but if I could get the same thing basically (minus the ability to transfer to SPG points, book 8 months out max instead of 12, not get SPG gold) I'd rather save a ton of cash up front and pay basically half the maintenance fees every year and get the same week in the same rooms at the same property that they're paying a lot more for

So ya, sorry for the lengthy post but if you've made it this far thanks and thanks again for any and all advice you can provide!

 

[vacationtime1]

Your thought process is very sound. The good news is that your target units are available on the secondary market for much less than you think.

You can buy that 81000 StarOption Kierland one bedroom unit for about $9,000 +/-; the MF's are $947 plus the VSE club fee of about $140. Kierland does not have ROFR (full disclosure: we own three Kierland units). It is the two bedroom Kierland (148100 StarOptions) that would set you back $15,000 +/- with maintenance fees of $1,543 + VSE fee.

You can buy a 81000 two bedroom Vistana Villages (Bella or Key West only) for about $1,000; the MF's are about $1,200 plus the VSE club fee. I have no idea about ROFR there.

Do realize that using StarOptions to reserve Maui at the eight month mark is not automatic. Christmas/New Years is not going to happen. Whale season or summer weeks will require diligence and flexibility. But again, your overall concept is sound.

Keep asking questions.

 

[r1lee]

There is also no ROFR at Vistana. You can pickup 81k 2 bedroom in platinum season for literally free if you look hard as are patience. The diff in MF fee compared to the 1 bedroom from kierland is about $100. It would take you forever to make up that difference. Also the kierland unit is very difficult to find.

 

[Markus]

If you can afford $15K +/- then the Kierland 2 bed Platinum Plus is the way to go. This will provide 148,100 StarOptions, and allow you the 2 bed in Hawaii, slightly over 2 weeks in a Studio, almost 2 weeks in a 1 bed. This option will allow more usage as you vacation time increases, for the same low MFs. In addition if your usage will be lower in a particular year, you can always rent all or a portion of your unit for significant profit, making uour vacation essentially free.

Markus

 

[buzglyd]

And stay away from Mission Hills which isn’t mandatory.

I just picked up an odd year Bella 81,000 for $100. I like EOY because I can just forget about using it for a year and plan different vacations.

 

[DeniseM]

There is also no ROFR at Vistana.

Not true - Some resorts have ROFR.

 

[PamMo]

Like Vacationtime1 wrote, if your primary goal is to get into Hawaii using StarOptions, you have to be very flexible about when you travel. Hawaiian holiday, prime winter and summer weeks are usually reserved by owners in their 12-8 month priority booking period, so competition can be fierce for the remaining weeks in the Vistana Network. Even owners can have a hard time booking prime weeks at 12 months. If you can travel to Hawaii at any time of the year, get the cheapest mandatory week (purchase price + MF's) for the number of StarOptions you want. For the most flexibility, I'd recommend buying a 2BR unit with more StarOptions so you can bring family/friends, stay longer, split up the unit for two separate vacations, or have one or two weeks to trade in Interval (an Interval account is included in your Vistana account if you own a mandatory resort - but trading will cost extra).

Congrats on not being pressured to buy at the presentation, and being smart enough to take your time and research options before buying a timeshare!

 

[VacationForever]

Since the title of your post is "Most Affordable Way...", I would say if you want 1BR for 1 week, buy a SVV (Key West or Bella) prime season which comes with 81K SO (1BR in Maui) for a 2BR non-lockoff, or 95.7K SO (1BR Oceanfront in Maui) for a 2BR lockoff. If you want to book 2 weeks of 1BR or 1 week of 2BR, then just buy 2 SVV weeks. They go for about 1K per week and very reasonable MF.

Westin Kierland is expensive and won't fall into "Most Affordable Way..." category. In addition, with the market being imperfect, someone just bought a 2BR WKV platinum annual week for 10K and another person at 15K etc... The spread is too wide (10K to 17K) and if you end up paying on the higher end, you are going to feel that you got a bad deal... just saying.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Love this thread because it summarizes many threads that I have been pouring over to research a similar purchase for a trader. This answers many of my questions.

I have a few more:

What about WPORV Kauai availability via SOs during summer? Is it easy/possible to trade SO at 8 month midnight for a 2 bedroom unit with a decent view better than the garbage bins, brick wall or parking lot at WPORV?

What about 1 bedroom ski weeks via SOs at 8 months?

Would we be better off with a 1 bedroom Kierland or a 2 bedroom (SVV) for II trading into Marriott or Hyatt?

 

[mauitraveler]

Love this thread because it summarizes many threads that I have been pouring over to research a similar purchase for a trader. This answers many of my questions.

I have a few more:
...Would we be better off with a 1 bedroom Kierland or a 2 bedroom (SVV) for II trading into Marriott or Hyatt?

I've noticed that my Marriott ownership "sees" more Marriott availability in II than my Vistana ownerships. A good trader for you might be the Grand Chateau in Las Vegas. I've had very good success with locking off the 2-BR and getting good trades, especially with the E-Plus feature. I've also seen WPORV availability using my Marriott to search. However, if you specifically want to use SOs to get into WPORV during the summer, perhaps someone with more experience with that scenario can chime in. CJ

 

[DeniseM]

What about WPORV Kauai availability via SOs during summer? Is it easy/possible to trade SO at 8 month midnight for a 2 bedroom unit with a decent view better than the garbage bins, brick wall or parking lot at WPORV?

Staroption trades at WPORV have no designated view, so no guarantee on view. Princeville is easier than Maui, but you still need to make your reservation right at 8 months.

What about 1 bedroom ski weeks via SOs at 8 months?

Difficult - most ski season inventory is reserved by owners and never makes it to 8 mos.

Would we be better off with a 1 bedroom Kierland or a 2 bedroom (SVV) for II trading into Marriott or Hyatt?

It's a waste of Staroptions to trade a mandatory resort in II, when a voluntary resort will work for less $$$.

 

[VacationForever]

In II, there is Vistana-Vistana (30 days)and Marriott-Marriott (24 days) priority where a block is in place against other brands of timeshare.

 

[EnglishmanAbroad]

The general consensus on here in recent times is if you want e.g. Maui then the prime way to avoid disappointment is to buy Maui. For around $11K and $2.7K/year you can pick up a resale of an annual 2BR, be able to reserve at 12 months and have a very good chance of renting it out if you don't use it. Probably like many on here I can only dream that I'd picked mine up at such a price

 

[buzglyd]

Love this thread because it summarizes many threads that I have been pouring over to research a similar purchase for a trader. This answers many of my questions.

I have a few more:

What about WPORV Kauai availability via SOs during summer? Is it easy/possible to trade SO at 8 month midnight for a 2 bedroom unit with a decent view better than the garbage bins, brick wall or parking lot at WPORV?

What about 1 bedroom ski weeks via SOs at 8 months?

Would we be better off with a 1 bedroom Kierland or a 2 bedroom (SVV) for II trading into Marriott or Hyatt?

CalGal you are on a mission!

 

[PamMo]

...It's a waste of Staroptions to trade a mandatory resort in II, when a voluntary resort will work for less $$$.

Not necessarily. I usually book my expensive Home Resorts (WKORV, WKORVN, and HRA) for their views, but I've been very happy to split and trade one 2BR lockoff for two weeks in a 2BR Westin villa in Hawaii (thanks to bulk deposit sightings on TUG). Not as good as splitting my SDO 2BR for two weeks in Hawaii, but I still like having the option with my mandatory lockoffs. Unfortunately, the Interval trade plus upgrade unit size fees are making it less appealing...

 

[r1lee]

Not true - Some resorts have ROFR.

i meant to say vistana villages, it was super early this morning. I was still tired

 

[bogey21]

The general consensus on here in recent times is if you want Maui then the prime way to avoid disappointment is to buy Maui.

As an outsider lurking here I agree with this approach. If something is important to you, don't screw around and buy it. I faced a similar situation many, many years ago. I wanted the certainty of an Ocean Front Week at Monarch (Marriott) on HHI for my family of five. The only way to be sure to get it was to buy it. I sprung for $25k and bought a Fixed Crown Suite Week; used it for 6 or 7 years; then (luckily) sold it for $41.5k ($33.2k after commission paid to Marriott).

George

 

[PamMo]

We've stayed in that Crown Suite - and loved it!!!

 

[Smithsingeneva]

What about 1 bedroom ski weeks via SOs at 8 months?

I have consistently reserved a 1BR at Sheraton Mountain Vista in Avon on SOs during Spring Break - typically last week or two of March.

 

[Smithsingeneva]

If you want a view in Maui, you should buy Maui. SOs do not guarantee a view.

Also, I am always worried that the SO network may change. The Flex programs and other initiatives may make it harder to reserve through SOs at some point, and I am happy knowing that worst case, we are stuck in a 2BR LO oceanview at WKORVN.

I would not let ROFR deter me. Vistana does not exercise every one and there is plenty of Maui inventory available to try again if they exercise on your purchase. Syed Sarmai at Advantage Vacations in Maui was my broker and knows the ROFR market very well. He is a Tugger. Check out his website for inventory and give him a call for the prices that are likely to pass ROFR.

 

[Smithsingeneva]

There are also ways to structure the deals to reduce likelihood of ROFR being exercised. We reimbursed the seller for the current year MFs as part of our deal - and since it was the first half of the year I was able to bank those SOs for future use. Vistana is not as interested in that part of the deal but would have to match it to exercise ROFR.

 

[duke]

Think about RENTING from an Owner.
There are may Owners who would be glad to make a reservation for the exact week and view you want if you just reimburse the annual maint. fee.
Or, check out the rental sites such as Redweek and get what you want without the investment.

 

[LivninSC]

Thanks for all the responses. We really liked both the Maui and Kauai resorts it's just the maintenance fees that kind of kill it. If the maintenance fees were closer to the Kierlands fees it would be worth it for us to buy at Westin Ka'anapali (as it's a mandatory resort so we could use the week elsewhere) and book a week there 12 months out and if we wanted to go to Kauai see if they had availability and switch at 8 months and if not stick with the Maui reservation. With MFs at roughly $3k for a 2 bedroom for a week every year you can get a pretty darn nice VRBO for less. Again, not necessarily all the amenities but you can stay at one of the neighboring VRBOs for $2k or less for a 2-3 bedroom for a week. The reason I liked the Kierland option was the reduced maintenance fees (roughly $1.5k IIRC) and at least for now what seems to be an easier ability to rent out the week to cover our MFs if we decided not to use it at another resort which was a positive over the Vistana Villages (plus the hurricane risk which may or may not be a real concern). We don't normally travel during the holidays or peak summer times currently so hopefully we would be able to get a week but it's admittedly a risk which is somewhat why we were considering getting a week at 81k points a year and seeing how it goes and then buy more. As the kids do get older though summer weeks do become more necessary as I'm not sure if we'll want to take them out of school.

Another concern is these Flex programs. I was reading the threads here and I can see how the current owners would be a bit perturbed. They always had the ability to book in the 12-8 month timeframe at their home resort but it now seems that a lot of other people will have the same ability across a few resorts. I wonder what that will do to availability or possibly there is additional room inventory they're somehow adding so that it won't diminish the current owners ability?

Just using Princeville as an example I looked at random summer weeks and they usually show availability at spg.com but is the availability they show there also the same availability that an owner would be able to get? IOW if July 15th-22nd is showing a 2 Bedroom as available (albeit at $950/night) would an owner be able to book a room or is there different inventory where some is allocated to owners and the rest the hotel side of it? Not being an owner I can't really compare the availability

Definitely lots to think about and again thanks for all the input.

 

[VacationForever]

Another concern is these Flex programs. I was reading the threads here and I can see how the current owners would be a bit perturbed. They always had the ability to book in the 12-8 month timeframe at their home resort but it now seems that a lot of other people will have the same ability across a few resorts. I wonder what that will do to availability or possibly there is additional room inventory they're somehow adding so that it won't diminish the current owners ability?

Just using Princeville as an example I looked at random summer weeks and they usually show availability at spg.com but is the availability they show there also the same availability that an owner would be able to get? IOW if July 15th-22nd is showing a 2 Bedroom as available (albeit at $950/night) would an owner be able to book a room or is there different inventory where some is allocated to owners and the rest the hotel side of it? Not being an owner I can't really compare the availability

Definitely lots to think about and again thanks for all the input.

There are many inventory pools. SPG.com inventory is owned by Starwood (the hotel chain). Westin Flex has its own inventory pool, which is only open to those who bought Westin Flex points. Vistana weeks owners have their own weeks inventory pools. Sheraton Flex has its own inventory pool. Nanea points owners have their own inventory pool, the new St John phases have their own inventory pool.

What happens at 8 months is that all of the mandatory weeks, and developer purchased Flex points can book from the same pool, except from weeks pool and SPG hotel owned pool. Vistana voluntary weeks owners, will continue to be able to book within their same season from the weeks inventory pool.

 

[Ken555]

I bought a Kierland 148k week in 2005 with first usage in 2006, and it’s been a fantastic addition to my travel planning. I’ve also bought and sold (given away) other weeks, and now have a couple of SDO weeks for trading. I use WKV exclusively as SO trades, primarily to Maui. I reserve Maui at the eight month mark and rarely have difficulty finding units.

I also use SDO for trading to WKORV, though the success rate for that hasn’t been as good in the last few years as it was previously. However, I was able to get a 1-bed for this March.

To answer your latest question, the inventory you see on SPG is not the inventory available to owners.

Over the long term, owning WKV is best price since the annual fees will be lower. There have been numerous threads about this over the years...and I believe the last time I ran the numbers comparing WKV and SVV, SVV had the advantage until about seven (7) years at which point WKV was better. So, I’d suggest you determine how long you intend to keep the week and then revisit the question of which unit to purchase.

As far as buying direct vs resale goes, I’ll just chime in like others and say there is very little practical purpose to ever buying direct. I would definitely encourage you to buy resale.

FWIW, I track my WKV usage carefully. This year may be the most nights I’ve ever redeemed in a year at about 26 for a 148k deed. Depending on your usage, there are ways of stretching a single week.

Good luck!


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