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MVC Owner Update for Sheraton Owner

Discussion in 'Marriott Vacation Club' started by teddyo333, Aug 13, 2019.

  1. davidvel

    davidvel TUG Member

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    When you look at it, the D Club is just another exchange product, but using assigned points as the currency. I'm sure they'll figure how to get people to buy into a new hybrid club with more of their hard earned money.

    Seadoc, how much before the DC rollout did salespeople receive info, training etc. What form was it in, and what constraints were placed on the release of the info? I recall that a "date" was announced about big changes, and everyone on TUG went nuts speculating. Did people try to leak it?
     
  2. CPNY

    CPNY TUG Member

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    I speculated that a while back. It could be a third program where DC Points and Star Options would convert to a new “currency” you have the be a certain level or “buy in” In a sense deposit or convert what you own to book. It could all be done through interval. Interesting how the interval guide that was mailed today is all about “using your points to exchange with interval: it’s easy!” A guide just for points based vacation owners on how to use the interval exchange. I bet a third program could be a nice sell. But who knows, I just hope priority exchange happens first and fast.
     
  3. dansimms

    dansimms TUG Member

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    One option would be that you could come into another of these programs at the tier you have earned in the Marriott Vacation Club. Your ownership in each program would be combined so that you would have higher level perks in two or more programs
     
    CalGalTraveler likes this.
  4. Steve Fatula

    Steve Fatula TUG Member

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    And the key thing to recall about that, was, for existing owners, nothing really changed unless they wanted more options by enrolling or buying into the new system. Everything they could do before, they still could.
     
    dansimms likes this.
  5. DannyTS

    DannyTS TUG Member

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    This time may be different though. Depending how they structure the overlay it may affect availability in the internal exchanges, especially at the most popular resorts and weeks so we may see winners and losers this time
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  6. Steve Fatula

    Steve Fatula TUG Member

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    Anything can be different! When I say nothing changed, I mean the rules, your ownership worked the same way, you could do the same thing, etc. Availability is totally different issue. And, since anything is possible, you can speculate all you want. No one knows, no sense getting worked up over something that has not changed or been announced. I suppose it might be fun. But, I would hope no one is worrying that they lose some feature they currently have.
     
    SueDonJ likes this.
  7. DannyTS

    DannyTS TUG Member

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    Steve, both the fear that we will lose something and the confidence that we will only have to gain are based on speculation so we are all in the same boat regardless of where one stands on this matter.

    Honestly I am more curious and I care less at this point. One way or another they will find a way to extract more money from us: a bit more annual fees (say a bit extra on top of the VSN fees), skim etc. If people trade less in Interval it will already be a huge gain for MVW. Most Tuggers try to score big exchanges. It is not uncommon to have a cost of under 1000 (exchange fee, MF plus upgrade fee) and get in return a week that is worth a multiple of that. If that II exchange does not happen and it is done instead under the DC umbrella, it is a huge win for Marriott if they can now rent the "leftovers"
     
  8. Steve Fatula

    Steve Fatula TUG Member

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    They do have to make back the purchase price of the acquisitions at a minimum, correct. Sure, I trade in II. But I go outside Marriott et al too. I doubt there will be massive II trading differences. In DC, those that elect for points do remove those weeks for weeks traders, however, they remove the owner as well, so, no trading is lost.
     
    Sicnarf and bazzap like this.
  9. Lansdowne

    Lansdowne TUG Member

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    We agree! Combining our 4 Westins and 3 Marriotts +pts should increase our status! I hope they also go with the one fixed annual fee for II exchanges, points and banking.


    P.S. Gee, its has been that long since the DCP/VCP change?!
     
  10. CPNY

    CPNY TUG Member

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    It’s only been a year since acquisition. It’s not that long at all.
     
    Steve Fatula likes this.
  11. Sicnarf

    Sicnarf TUG Member

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    I'm looking forward to this. I have 15 VSE units / 1 million+ SO's I'd like to enroll if the price is right
     
    CPNY likes this.
  12. DeeCee

    DeeCee TUG Member

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    Good morning. Very interesting thread. Although, I must admit the MVC DC points program buy in confuses me a bit. We purchased a legacy week almost 3 years ago. Resale but direct through Marriott. I think we could have done a little better with price on the resale market, but compared to direct DC points sales pitch we saved over $20,000. Of course, we understand that our week is not as flexible as the DC points system. We were also more comfortable with a quick and easy transaction, going directly through Marriott as we never did a private resale transaction.

    Forgive my naivety, I do have some questions.

    A little back story....I find Disney vacation club so much easier to understand. We own for 20 years now. I didn’t have a problem understanding it when we bought it, added on or how to use it (guidelines/banking/borrowing/cancellations, etc) all these years.

    We have an Marriott stay coming up on an Encore package with attendance at a presentation mandatory. The reps confuse me even more. So....questions, if you don’t mind:

    1) is the “new” presentation going to look for us to trade in our week? What’s that mean, that our week is now gone forever and in lieu of it we have points?

    2) if so, why would we trade in a week and still have to pay for points? Is our week worthless? (Gold season surfwatch garden view - we love it)

    3) I see mention of “no fees” to trade in our week for DC points. What’s the average savings there?

    We did sit in on a presentation in the past but it was confusing, it was hard sell and I don’t remember anything too specific because we didn’t do it.

    I’m just curious about how it all works so when we do go into the presentation I have a better grasp on it all. I also see there’s a newer program coming next year. Does anyone know what that actually is?

    Thanks for your time and patience.

    Dee
     
  13. vacationtime1

    vacationtime1 Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    If it's not broken, don't fix it. If you are happy with what you have, why change it?

    If it were me, I would listen patiently, ask no questions (ask any questions here to get better answers), and politely and firmly say "NO".

    I would not pay resale, let alone retail, given the uncertainty of whether, how, and when the merger will affect my purchase.
     
    DeeCee and Fasttr like this.
  14. JIMinNC

    JIMinNC TUG Member

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    My answers below:

    1) With Marriott, you do not have to trade-in your week to participate in points. Marriott usually pitches some form of "enrollment" which means that you just add the option to convert your week to points in any given use year. So, one year you use your week or trade it in II as you always have, but the next year, you could opt to convert it to points and play in the points world. That world allows check-in on any day, shorter than 7 night stays at your option, the ability to pick a specific view (which you can't do in II), and a more hotel-like booking process instead of the II trading model.
    2) Marriott will often offer you the option to buy Points for the right to enroll your week as described in #1 above. Unless that week was bought prior to June 2010, enrolling it in points will almost always require you buying other points from Marriott (those points come in the form of deeded interests in their points-based real estate trust). For externally-purchased weeks those offers almost always are only during time-limited promotions. Since your week was purchased from MVC's internal resales group, they may be more flexible, but will almost definitely require you to buy points to enroll that week in the Points system. So if your Gold Surfwatch Garden week is worth, just guessing, 2800 points or so, if they allow it, Marriott would probably want you to buy around 3000 points to enroll that week. If you did, you would then have the 3000 points you bought, plus your week. So in any years that you decide to convert your week to points, you would have a total of 5800 points in that year (the 3000 trust points plus the 2800 value of your week). Or you could just keep your week as a week as you always have and still have your 3000 trust points to use in those years.
    3) Once you join the MVC points system you pay an annual $205 membership fee that covers your II membership fee, all II trade/re-trade fees, booking fees, etc. There are no per-transaction fees for MVC points accounts or points transactions.
     
    kds4 likes this.
  15. tshd

    tshd Guest

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    I hope that they don't combine the programs (at least not via mass enrollment) and perhaps just clarify that trading is possible via II using points (which I believe is already available, although I've never used points to trade in II).

    It's easy to say that the user experience shouldn't have changed much with the introduction of DCP/VCP because although a week disappeared, so did its owner from II. But if say (for example sake only, but I'm sure it's somewhat true) all Hawaii weeks owners had decided to join DC because their points values were higher and they could see the value in having flexibility to travel to other HI islands or other resorts for short stays, then the availability of Hawaii weeks would be non-existent in II. So all of those folks who had been used to trading Florida or desert weeks for HI would definitely have a changed user experience.

    Fortunately for weeks traders, not everyone was familiar with the new program, so they didn't enroll at the time when the enrollment fee was reasonable, but since then, Marriott has enticed quite a few resale owners to buy retail in order to join DC. I suspect if Marriott offers a new amnesty program, now that everyone is more familiar with it, I'm sure there would be quite a bit more interest and consequently more noticeable effects. It wouldn't seem good business practice to allow Vistana resale owners to buy in with an enrollment fee and not offer the same to loyal Marriott owners. I just think this type of mass enrollment would be very disruptive for both current points and weeks owners. Imagine paying to go to a concert for 10,000 people and suddenly 50,000 show up, even though 5000 of the original group left, it still would not be the same experience the original 10K bought into.

    I almost bought WKORV. Westin properties are very nice, but not really anywhere I want to travel except Maui. I'm one of those West Coast people, so I ultimately bought Marriott because I liked that they have resorts on the beach throughout Hawaii and in California, which Westin does not. I understand that folks continue to buy into the point system creating more competition, but it's a slow process. I'm not thrilled at the prospect of a sudden mass influx of new owners with a pent up desire to visit Marriotts, especially because my desire is not reciprocal. Perhaps there are a lot of Hawaii owners who are chomping at the bit to go to a Westin, but I'm doubtful. It's the mantra here everyday, "buy where you want to go", which I did and I'm figuring a lot of other people who like Hawaii did so also.

    I hope Marriott doesn't mess with the current status quo just to make a quick profit and moves more slowly by trying to entice Vistana owners to trade in their weeks/buy into VCP, rather than offering mass enrollment of weeks for an enrollment fee(not holding my breath,though when it comes to Marriott making a profit over owner satisfaction).

    Am I incorrect in figuring that there are quite a few Vistana owners who would love to have parity with Marriott owners to get into the much wider variety of MVC destinations, even if they aren't "Westin quality"? Are a lot of the Marriott owners here wanting to trade for a Westin more regularly than another Marriott? I don't feel much difference between the two brands, so for me it's about location availability and Marriott is the clear winner in that respect.
     
  16. kds4

    kds4 TUG Member

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    You make some interesting points. Personally, I am not one with ambition to suddenly begin exploring the Starwood/Hyatt/Westin portfolio (with but the rare exception).
     
  17. Steve Fatula

    Steve Fatula TUG Member

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    Note, it still doesn't quite work that way. In MVCI, the fact that you enroll your week does NOT remove it from the weeks bucket. Only if you elect for points on a given year does it do so. In your extreme example, all Hawaii MVCI owners would have to enroll, AND, all would have to elect for points in any given year. Impossible. And not only that, post 2010 weeks can't be enrolled except here and there and generally for a lot of money. I doubt the majority of Hawaii weeks are enrolled.

    Yes, I realize you are using an extreme example. So, tit for tat. Say there is no DC, and, all MVCI Hawaii owners elect to occupy, you still cannot trade into it.
     
  18. JIMinNC

    JIMinNC TUG Member

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    Just from my perspective, there are few Westin locations that would be that big of an addition. Los Cabos would really probably be the only one we would use semi-regularly. Lagunamar/Cancun is another where MVC has nothing that some others might like, but if we want to go to Mexico, I think we would choose Los Cabos (because Los Cabos has Humpback whales!). I would certainly consider trying the Westins on Maui using points if were to go there in an even year (since our ownership at MOC is only odd year), but that is a nice-to-have, not something that really adds new destinations. Westin St John would be a nice addition also, but from reading the Vistana forum, it sounds like it's hard to even book those with StarOptions, so not sure how much access we could reasonably expect.
     
  19. Steve Fatula

    Steve Fatula TUG Member

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    Yeah, Los Cabos would be one for me. Atlantis, Kierland, all the Mexico, and St John as well. Certainly would not be every year or even every 5 years. More regularly than trading to Marriott? No.
     
  20. Dean

    Dean TUG Member

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    I can't think of a single Westin or Vistana resort that adds to my likely usage though there are a number that might be lateral options. The only options that I see as additive for me personally are some of the Hyatt's. We don't go to MX and try not to do water Taxi's plus I have no interest in going back to Paradise Island. That's not to say there aren't a number I wouldn't mind staying at or end up with a specific need in that area but none that I look at say "I want to stay there or go to that location that I can't do with MVC". For VRI the Canadian options are interesting though some of their resorts are at or below our minimum standards, at least the ones I have direct knowledge of.
     
  21. tshd

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    In my extreme example, I was trying to convey that the hypothetical HI owners had all either elected for points or used/rented their interval and therefore no owners' weeks were deposited into II in any given year. I'm not sure how you can conclude that this is impossible. Improbable yes, impossible no, because at the time that Marriott originally rolled out DCP, there were no restrictions on which Marriott weeks could be enrolled and once you are enrolled there is nothing limiting your ability to elect for points, that's what worries me.

    I truly believe that if more owners had understood how the program works and that the buy in would be much more costly in the future, then they would have paid the enrollment fee, even if they didn't intend to elect points every year, or at all for that matter, if they owned a few l/off weeks they like to trade in II. It's just my hunch, but from reading how many folks here have bought weeks/points directly from Marriott to get into DC, I'm pretty confident in my assumption. Now that it's ten years later, I think even more people would be game to enroll quickly, if Marriott offered enrollment without a purchase.

    I bought a Maui week, to be able to go there if I choose. I think we know that's really all we are guaranteed. Although I bought a week where I like to go, I also bought some weeks strictly for trading. I consciously bought Marriott with the hope that other Marriott owners would want to try out other Marriotts and deposit their unit for trade. I think most who bought Marriott with the hope of trading would say that having Marriott trading priority is relatively important, same I'm sure with owners of Vistana and Hyatt. It's even more important for those who have paid a premium to trade within an internal system as opposed to II where units from all different developers are traded. My SIL owns Hyatt and already struggles to get her desired trades within Hyatt's internal system. She recently purchased whatever the Hyatt equivalent of DC points is, with the promise that it would make her trades easier. I'm sure she doesn't want more competition from Marriott owners such as myself and I appreciate that as a valid concern knowing that she paid a premium to get those points. The thought that I will potentially be forced to purchase a lot more points so that I will have an equal chance to book a night that might otherwise be taken by someone who acquired a ton of SVV for cheap on eBay, doesn't make me happy. I don't really want to acquire Vistana weeks, just to hedge my bets based on rumors and speculation nor do I want to feel like I missed out once again, if I don't, like what happened when DC was announced. At this point, I just want to stick with the status quo, so I can move forward with confidence and not trepidation.

    FWIW, it seems to me that the more valuable points wise your week is, the better the incentive to have it enrolled rather than gamble with II, because otherwise you're more likely trading down, especially owners in high maintenance places like HI and the Caribbean. With II, I could trade for a 2bd in Palm Springs with my studio but with points I can get much more than 7 days and a whole lot more if I opt for a smaller unit. I wouldn't want to trade from Hawaii for a studio in the desert through II because I would feel I wasn't getting an equitable trade. Personally, I don't see any reason why someone with a HI week wouldn't enroll if the original offer came around again, unless the owner never trades and only goes to their home resort.
     
  22. Dean

    Dean TUG Member

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    Often those who would have qualified in 2010 but haven't enrolled can enroll for free now either by watching a webinar or by attending a sales presentation. I doubt we'll see a mass influx, Marriott will want to maximize the profits and keep their sales force busy. IMO the big risk is that all of the groups will get II trading preference that is the same as that currently offered to Marriott though if so, it will also open up additional resorts for priority.
     
  23. DannyTS

    DannyTS TUG Member

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    All your arguments are actually in favor of mass enrollment and allowing both Marriott and Vistana week owners to be part of the club. This would actually significantly improve availability and choice.
     
  24. DannyTS

    DannyTS TUG Member

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    I think MVW is going by the "If you build it, he will come".
     
  25. CPNY

    CPNY TUG Member

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    You bring up some really good points. I agree, MVC wins out in locations. But I think there are plenty of people on the vistana side not chomping at the bit. It would be nice to have more options but most people bought into the systems they bought into for certain reasons. As an east coast vistana owner, I’d be interested in Aruba and possibly St Thomas, with the occasional ski week. From what I’ve seen I’d be able to exchange my Orlando for a ski week through interval. Would I convert? The price would have to be low. I think you may find more people opting for priority interval exchange of weeks rather than converting into a DC.

    The point about you not holding your breath over MVC putting profit before customer satisfaction.... is that something you have experienced before? As a vistana owner, I have no experience with the way MVC operates. Although been in contact with sales about an enrolled Aruba resale week. Still debating.

    I wouldn’t worry about them combining the programs just yet. It’s only been a year and anything new will be some time off. Especially since anything combined may be a completely different product which everyone has to buy.
     

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