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[2019] MVC Owner Update for Sheraton Owner

LeslieDet

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Your use of the term Vistana FlexOptions is really confusing. There is no such program as Vistana FlexOptions.

From your post quoted above it is clear you are referring to the Westin Flex program. Using incorrect titles just provides confusion. There are currently four flex programs within Vistana.

(1) Sheraton Flex:
  • Sheraton Vistana Villages
  • Sheraton Vistana Resort
  • Sheraton Broadway Plantation
  • Sheraton Desert Oasis
  • Sheraton Steamboat Resort Villas
  • Vistana Beach Club
  • Sheraton Mountain Vista
  • Sheraton Lakeside Terrace Villas at Mountain Vista
(2) Westin Flex:
  • The Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort Villas
  • The Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort Villas North
  • The Westin Nanea Ocean Villas
  • The Westin Princeville Ocean Resort Villas
  • The Westin Desert Willow Villas, Palm Desert
  • The Westin Mission Hills Resort Villas, Palm Springs
  • The Westin Riverfront Mountain Villas
  • The Westin Kierland Villas
(3) Westin Aventuras:
  • The Westin Los Cabos Resort Villas & Spa
  • The Westin Lagunamar Ocean Resort
(4) Westin Nanea Flex

If I've referred to it as Vistana FlexOptions, then I apologize. This format in this forum is quite new to me and I'm just trying to keep up. I will say that when I addended the Vistana update, it was pitched as the Vistana point system, and then also referred to as Westin FlexOptions, with the Westin Flex Home Resorts and the Westin Vacation Club Villa Resort Collection that was the total of 23 locations (including the 8 "home" resorts) where the FlexOptions could be used to book at any place in month 1-8. There was no specific discussion under the names of "Sheraton" or "Aventuras", but I will note that the entire resort collection did include properties that are Sheraton and Cabo, including the following: Vistana Orlando, PGA resort in Port St Lucie, Beach Club in Jensen Beach, Steamboat Resort Villas, Lakeside in Vail, Sheraton Kauai, Sheraton Desert Oasis in Scottsdale, Harborside in Atlantis, St John USVI, Broadway Plantation Myrtle Beach, Laguna Mar Cancun, Westin Cancun, Westin Los Cabos, and Westin PV. There was one recent addition to the list, but I did not write that name down and it was not on the handout that identified all of the resorts that were available for booking at months 1-8 with FlexOptions. Hope this helps.
 

controller1

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There was one recent addition to the list, but I did not write that name down and it was not on the handout that identified all of the resorts that were available for booking at months 1-8 with FlexOptions. Hope this helps.

The recent addition may have been The Westin Cancun Resort & Spa. I believe I read where it had recently been added to the Westin Aventuras flex program but it was not shown as such on the Vistana website.
 

vacationtime1

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If I've referred to it as Vistana FlexOptions, then I apologize. This format in this forum is quite new to me and I'm just trying to keep up. I will say that when I addended the Vistana update, it was pitched as the Vistana point system, and then also referred to as Westin FlexOptions, with the Westin Flex Home Resorts and the Westin Vacation Club Villa Resort Collection that was the total of 23 locations (including the 8 "home" resorts) where the FlexOptions could be used to book at any place in month 1-8. There was no specific discussion under the names of "Sheraton" or "Aventuras", but I will note that the entire resort collection did include properties that are Sheraton and Cabo, including the following: Vistana Orlando, PGA resort in Port St Lucie, Beach Club in Jensen Beach, Steamboat Resort Villas, Lakeside in Vail, Sheraton Kauai, Sheraton Desert Oasis in Scottsdale, Harborside in Atlantis, St John USVI, Broadway Plantation Myrtle Beach, Laguna Mar Cancun, Westin Cancun, Westin Los Cabos, and Westin PV. There was one recent addition to the list, but I did not write that name down and it was not on the handout that identified all of the resorts that were available for booking at months 1-8 with FlexOptions. Hope this helps.

None of the flex trusts have 23 resorts. Perhaps there are 23 in the four trusts combined, but many of the 23 will be difficult to impossible to reserve at 8 months (ski resorts during ski season, Hawaii during summer, etc.). From 12 - 8 months, one can reserve only resorts within the specific flex trust one owns.

Count me among those who find these flex trusts to be a cynical attempt by Vistana to eliminate mandatory VOI's, destroy resale values, and control the resale market via ROFR.
 
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LeslieDet

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Yes, but not post 2010 weeks (for free). Just to clarify.

No one has EVER said that post 2010 weeks were ever enrolled by MVCI for free. Once MVCI started selling DPs, then the unsold inventory for all USA based resorts was put into the DP trust. Anything sold post 2010 (USA based) is only sold resale. MVCI has been selling what they term "hybrid" ownership, ie points plus a resale week, and then that resale week is automatically enrolled, but trust me, it costs significantly more than the $2395 you stated. And, if you go to any of the 4 european properties, you can buy a week (actually it is a RTU) that is automatically enrolled in the DP system. There have been some reports that folks who have recently bought USVI MVCI weeks or Aruba weeks were given a bonus and allowed to enroll a resale week for no additional charge. I don't have specifics, but folks have definitely reported that in a few instances. I know that personally, I was offered to enroll my resale weeks only if I were to purchase additional 3k (for one week) or 4k (for 2 or more weeks) DPs. But I wasn't interested in become chairman level and did not want to spend between $33k and $44k just to enroll my resale weeks. Not to mention that I don't need more points. LOL.
 

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The recent addition may have been The Westin Cancun Resort & Spa. I believe I read where it had recently been added to the Westin Aventuras flex program but it was not shown as such on the Vistana website.

Nope, that was on the list given to me at the beginning of this month.
 

Steve Fatula

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No one has EVER said that post 2010 weeks were ever enrolled by MVCI for free.

I didn't say YOU said post 2010 or anyone else for that matter. I was clarifying for readers of the topic, nothing more or less. I don't want someone looking at Marriott and this topic believing that they can buy resale and get enrolled for free. And I am not aware of ever stating $2395, you must be speaking of someone else.
 

LeslieDet

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None of the flex trusts have 23 resorts. Perhaps there are 23 in the four trusts combined, but many will be difficult to impossible to reserve at 8 months. From 12 - 8 months, one can reserve only resorts with the specific flex trust one owns.

To restate what I have already stated, there are 8 "home" resorts in the Westin FlexOptions program. These are: Kaanapali Ocean Resort Villas, Kaanapali Ocean North, Nanea (only one building), Princeville Ocean Resort, Mission Hills Villas, Desert Willow Villas, Riverfront Mountain Villas and Kierland Villas. Any of those 8 resorts can be booked with the FlexOptions at months 9-12. Thereafter, starting with month 8, there are 15 additional properties that someone who owns FlexOptions can book (subject to availability of course). As of August 2019, there are 24 TOTAL resorts that can be booked with FlexOptions. Yes, units at these resorts can ALSO be booked with StarOptions (for those of us with old StarOptions), so the 24 total also include the 8 resorts that are able to be booked at 9-12 months. I agree that it will be difficult to book at the 1-8 month dates.
 

controller1

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To restate what I have already stated, there are 8 "home" resorts in the Westin FlexOptions program. These are: Kaanapali Ocean Resort Villas, Kaanapali Ocean North, Nanea (only one building), Princeville Ocean Resort, Mission Hills Villas, Desert Willow Villas, Riverfront Mountain Villas and Kierland Villas. Any of those 8 resorts can be booked with the FlexOptions at months 9-12. Thereafter, starting with month 8, there are 15 additional properties that someone who owns FlexOptions can book (subject to availability of course). As of August 2019, there are 24 TOTAL resorts that can be booked with FlexOptions. Yes, units at these resorts can ALSO be booked with StarOptions (for those of us with old StarOptions), so the 24 total also include the 8 resorts that are able to be booked at 9-12 months. I agree that it will be difficult to book at the 1-8 month dates.

The notation of "only one building" for Nanea is only due to the fact there was at least that much unsold inventory owned by Vistana and they were able to dump the equivalent of one building into the Westin Flex trust at one time. The other resorts listed in the Westin Flex may actually each have less than one building's worth of units in the Westin Flex as there were much fewer unsold units and the bulk of what is in the Westin Flex are week units that were used as trade-ins for points purchases in the Westin Flex program.
 

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To clarify, I never heard Flex Options before. I used this term Flex Options with the believe Flex Options = Home Options for Flex. To book within 8 months, Staroptions is the only points available for all 23 Vistana resorts reservation. I never heard Flexoptions to book 1-8 months.
 

controller1

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To clarify, I never heard Flex Options before. I used this term Flex Options with the believe Flex Options = Home Options for Flex. To book within 8 months, Staroptions is the only points available for all 23 Vistana resorts reservation.

I am with you. The first time I heard of "FlexOptions" was in reading posts by @LeslieDet . I own Westin Flex points and they are called Home Options which, if purchased from the developer, are the equivalent of StarOptions at the 1-8 months reservation period.
 

JIMinNC

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Not once have I mentioned anything about a combined Westin/Sheraton/Marriott exchange program. You guys bring Sheraton into the fold, not me. I've only been talking about Vistana (because that is the legal name of the entity that is now selling the Westin FlexOptions program). I get that it is what it is, and all of the details have not yet been identified. My entire point of adding a comment to this feed was to respond to the comments about folks "waiting" for their Westin timeshares to be combined into their Marriott ownership so that they can book either location. I do not believe that is ever going to happen. This was not a merger. It was an acquisition by MVW of ILG (who owned Vistana, since Vistana was created under the umbrella of ILG, before MVW acquired ILG).

We are bringing Sheraton into the fold because like Westin, Sheraton is part of legacy Vistana which has both Westin Flex and Sheraton Flex programs under that legacy Vistana umbrella. You were talking about your theory of using what you called "FlexOptions" to exchange for DPs and vice versa, so since both Sheraton and Westin have so-called FlexOptions (your terminology), if they offer a way to convert those FlexOptions to DPs and vice versa, well, that effectively IS a Westin/Sheraton/Marriott cross-exchange program that you were describing. The CEO of MVW has told investors in their earnings call that they ARE developing an integrated product that will eventually allow Marriott owners to book Westin/Sheraton and vice versa, we just don't know the exact structure yet. No, it likely won't be a true full "merger" in the sense that the Vistana and Marriott programs will likely continue to exist as standalone legacy programs; but based on the CEO's disclosures, there will likely be some sort of new program that allows Westin/Sheraton owners to book Marriott and Marriott to book Westin/Sheraton. In the multitude of TUG threads over the past couple of months on this topic, I don't think anyone has seriously suggested that there will be a seamless merger of the Vistana and MVC programs. In fact, just the opposite has been said - the different legal structures make a full merger almost impossible and the integrated product will likely be an exchange capability between the programs. So, I'm not really sure what you are debating here.

And, BTW, under the FlexOptions program, an owner cannot combine the old StarOptions with new FlexOptions (as I understand the program) for a booking, unless the owner has bought into the FlexOptions program and somehow "enrolled" (again, that is my term) their "legacy" Westin purchase.

The Vistana owners will have to clarify this, but based on my understanding, this is NOT correct. I don't think there is an "enrollment" concept in the Vistana program. My understanding is the only thing along those lines that they offer is the "re-qualification" process for Voluntary resale weeks (which don't even have StarOptions), to allow those to have StarOptions. Doing that re-qualification requires a Flex purchase, but someone with a Mandatory week would not have to do that. Also, if someone who owned a Voluntary or Mandatory deed with StarOptions wanted the ability to use the StarOptions value of their week to book one of the Flex resorts from 12-8 months, they could surrender their deed as part of buying into their chosen Flex program and then have full rights for all of their resulting HomeOptions in that Flex program, but they would no longer own their deeded week. @pchung6, @CPNY, and @controller1, can one of you chime in and clarify this point? Is what @LeslieDet is saying correct? Does a VSE owner who has "old" StarOptions have to "enroll" them in some way to be able to combine them with the so called "FlexOptions" for a booking? (And I know FlexOptions isn't an official name, but I think LeslieDet is using that label to refer to the HomeOptions that come with Flex ownership).
 
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CPNY

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We are bringing Sheraton into the fold because like Westin, Sheraton is part of legacy Vistana which has both Westin Flex and Sheraton Flex programs under that legacy Vistana umbrella. You were talking about your theory of using what you called "FlexOptions" to exchange for DPs and vice versa, so since both Sheraton and Westin have so-called FlexOptions (your terminology), if they offer a way to convert those FlexOptions to DPs and vice versa, well, that effectively IS a Westin/Sheraton/Marriott cross-exchange program that you were describing. The CEO of MVW has told investors in their earnings call that they ARE developing an integrated product that will eventually allow Marriott owners to book Westin/Sheraton and vice versa, we just don't know the exact structure yet. No, it likely won't be a true full "merger" in the sense that the Vistana and Marriott programs will likely continue to exist as standalone legacy programs; but based on the CEO's disclosures, there will likely be some sort of new program that allows Westin/Sheraton owners to book Marriott and Marriott to book Westin/Sheraton. In the multitude of TUG threads over the past couple of months on this topic, I don't think anyone has seriously suggested that there will be a seamless merger of the Vistana and MVC programs. In fact, just the opposite has been said - the different legal structures make a full merger almost impossible and the integrated product will likely be an exchange capability between the programs. So, I'm not really sure what you are debating here.



The Vistana owners will have to clarify this, but based on my understanding, this is NOT correct. I don't think there is an "enrollment" concept in the Vistana program. My understanding is the only thing along those lines that they offer is the "re-qualification" process for Voluntary resale weeks (which don't even have StarOptions), to allow those to have StarOptions. Doing that re-qualification requires a Flex purchase, but someone with a Mandatory week would not have to do that. Also, if someone who owned a Voluntary or Mandatory deed with StarOptions wanted the ability to use the StarOptions value of their week to book one of the Flex resorts from 12-8 months, they could surrender their deed as part of buying into their chosen Flex program and then have full rights for all of their resulting HomeOptions in that Flex program, but they would no longer own their deeded week. @pchung6, @CPNY, and @controller1, can one of you chime in and clarify this point? Is what @LeslieDet is saying correct? Does a VSE owner who has "old" StarOptions have to "enroll" them in some way to be able to combine them with the so called "FlexOptions" for a booking?
At 8 months all star options are available for all bookings. If you have flex options and a mandatory week with options, at 8 months they are combined. 12-8 you can only use the options within the realm you own in. Deeded week at home resort or flex options at flex resorts.
 

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so requalification is not only for voluntary but all resale units if you want it to count towards elite status and exchange to Bonvoy points. correct, if you convert your unit to flex, you no longer own a deeded week. there is no such thing as enrolling staroptions, flexpoints becomes staroptions at 8 months so you can combine them with staroptions from resale mandatory weeks.
 

JIMinNC

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At 8 months all star options are available for all bookings. If you have flex options and a mandatory week with options, at 8 months they are combined. 12-8 you can only use the options within the realm you own in. Deeded week at home resort or flex options at flex resorts.

so requalification is not only for voluntary but all resale units if you want it to count towards elite status and exchange to Bonvoy points. correct, if you convert your unit to flex, you no longer own a deeded week. there is no such thing as enrolling staroptions, flexpoints becomes staroptions at 8 months so you can combine them with staroptions from resale mandatory weeks.

That's the way I thought it worked. I'm not sure what point @LeslieDet is trying to convey.
 

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To clarify, I never heard Flex Options before. I used this term Flex Options with the believe Flex Options = Home Options for Flex. To book within 8 months, Staroptions is the only points available for all 23 Vistana resorts reservation. I never heard Flexoptions to book 1-8 months.

It is the NEW program being sold by Vistana - it is a point ownership, reflected by a deed recorded in FL, just like how the MVCI DPs ownership is reflected by a deed recorded in FL. The points are being sold as basically a fractionalized ownership interest in a FL land trust. StarOptions are now old and not being sold. The program is now FlexOptions. Point sales only. As I stated, there are 8 "home resorts" and then 15 additional ones that can be booked beginning at month 8.
 

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That's the way I thought it worked. I'm not sure what point @LeslieDet is trying to convey.

The point is that StarOptions and FlexOptions cannot be combined, UNLESS the owner has basically enrolled into the program. That is the point I'm trying to make. You are wrong that StarOptions are the ONLY points available for all 23 Vistana resorts reservation. Now, the programs overlap. They are not just new terms for the same old thing. I don't know how to make it any clearer. Just because you never heard of FlexOptions doesn't mean that they do not exist. And, BTW, the old StarOptions can still be turned into BonVoy points. That is not a benefit for only the new program. The "catch" is that the new FlexOptions program has owner benefit levels - called 3 star, 4 star or 5 star. If one buys into the new program, then using FlexOptions to acquire BonVoy points is done at a reduced rate. The new owner levels also have extended banking deadlines, and reduced fees as perks. They cannot eliminate the benefits that were contractually provided to those of us who purchased prior to the acquisition of ILG by MVW. But what Vistana is doing is trying to incentivize the old owners to move to the new platform, and yes, that includes giving up deeds because that adds more inventory to the FlexOptions program.

FYI - here is a quote from the email from Nanea regarding the sale of one building to the Flex program: "Home Options (ownership points) and Westin Flex Home Options values cannot be combined to create a Home Resort reservation."

While this may create further ambiguity, it really seems that Vistana is trying to make it clear that the old program ended, and that the only thing Vistana has moving forward is the new point based program. I could be wrong, but it's not my wording, it is lifted directly from the news release.
 
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CPNY

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The point is that StarOptions and FlexOptions cannot be combined, UNLESS the owner has basically enrolled into the program. That is the point I'm trying to make. You are wrong that StarOptions are the ONLY points available for all 23 Vistana resorts reservation. Now, the programs overlap. They are not just new terms for the same old thing. I don't know how to make it any clearer. Just because you never heard of FlexOptions doesn't mean that they do not exist. And, BTW, the old StarOptions can still be turned into BonVoy points. That is not a benefit for only the new program. The "catch" is that the new FlexOptions program has owner benefit levels - called 3 star, 4 star or 5 star. If one buys into the new program, then using FlexOptions to acquire BonVoy points is done at a reduced rate. The new owner levels also have extended banking deadlines, and reduced fees as perks. They cannot eliminate the benefits that were contractually provided to those of us who purchased prior to the acquisition of ILG by MVW. But what Vistana is doing is trying to incentivize the old owners to move to the new platform, and yes, that includes giving up deeds because that adds more inventory to the FlexOptions program.
3,4,and 5 star elite was always in play when you owned a certain level of STAROPTIONS. Flexoptions, flex points, star options, or whatever you or they are calling them are all the same thing. If you own Westin flex or Sheraton flex or aventuras ownership, your “home resort” are all the resorts within the plan. Yes, we know this already. Im not sure what you mean by “enrolled” are you referring to making a voluntary deed retro back into the vistana network with the purchase of a new ownership in flex? That’s also not new. You could always retro voluntary resale weeks back into the vistana network with the purchase of a new ownership, even back when they were selling weeks.

If you buy a resale mandatory deed today in the mandatory resorts and you own Westin flex then yes those star options combine without having to enroll your mandatory resale deed because it’s mandatory and has to be enrolled in the vistana network. The star/flex options combine at 8 months prior to booking.

And technically they can do anything they want and that includes eliminating benefits as it states in the CCRs. Changes can be made at any time.
 

dioxide45

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Count me among those who find these flex trusts to be a cynical attempt by Vistana to eliminate mandatory VOI's, destroy resale values, and control the resale market via ROFR.
I suspect this is a huge side benefit. But the move to a trust based product really had to be done. WIth so many other timeshare brands doing the same in order to sell otherwise hard to sell inventory (low season weeks), they really had to do it. Hilton now is really the only hold out without a trust based program and their investors are now asking why.

FYI - here is a quote from the email from Nanea regarding the sale of one building to the Flex program: "Home Options (ownership points) and Westin Flex Home Options values cannot be combined to create a Home Resort reservation."
It is correct that you can't use Home Options from Nanea to combine with Home Options from Westin Flex to make a home resort reservation. They are separate trusts, with Nanea being its own trust, perhaps recorded in Hawaii and Westin Flex being recorded in Orange County Florida. So you can't use Home Options from Westin Flex to book something in the Nanea trust. However you could possible use it to make a Home resort reservation by pulling Nenea inventory from the Westin Flex trust. However if you make a reservation eight months out, you should be able to combine StarOptions from a weeks ownership and combine it with the Home Options (which at eight months are StarOptions) and make a single reservation at any VSN resort. This is no different in where you can't use a week at SVV and Sheraton Flex Home Options to make a home resort reservation.

I think you are using the term Flex Options here where Vistana calls them Home Options at both Nanea and in Westin Flex. It is right there in your quote from the email. They don't refer to them as Flex Options as pointed out by others.
 

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That's the way I thought it worked. I'm not sure what point @LeslieDet is trying to convey.

As I've said from my first reply on this thread, I was trying to respond to the comment about waiting for the MVCI and Westin programs to be "merged." I never wanted to go off on these discussions about all of the changes in Vistana and how things work there; I've admitted that my knowledge base is really focused on MVCI ownership. So, I'm going to jump off this feed, but just know that the only thing Vistana is selling now is a points based ownership (reflected by a deed recorded in FL). There are no more sales that are reflected by deeds recorded at the various locations (Hawaii, AZ, FL, CO). I never paid attention as to how ownership was taken for the Mexican locations, so I am not going to speculate now. The points based program has options that are used to book stays at the identified resorts. Those same points aka options are also eligible for BonVoy points, and can be banked and borrowed. The owner levels have been created to offer benefits and encourage owners to purchase more points aka options. The more points aka options you have, the better the benefits. Just like with MVCI. They cannot do away with the old system, because there are deeds recorded. So, these programs are running on separate paths. I do not believe that there is ever going to be a "merger" of the MVCI DP program and any of the other timeshare programs that were under the ILG umbrella.

Happy travels.
 

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The point is that StarOptions and FlexOptions cannot be combined, UNLESS the owner has basically enrolled into the program. That is the point I'm trying to make. You are wrong that StarOptions are the ONLY points available for all 23 Vistana resorts reservation. Now, the programs overlap. They are not just new terms for the same old thing. I don't know how to make it any clearer. Just because you never heard of FlexOptions doesn't mean that they do not exist. And, BTW, the old StarOptions can still be turned into BonVoy points. That is not a benefit for only the new program. The "catch" is that the new FlexOptions program has owner benefit levels - called 3 star, 4 star or 5 star. If one buys into the new program, then using FlexOptions to acquire BonVoy points is done at a reduced rate. The new owner levels also have extended banking deadlines, and reduced fees as perks. They cannot eliminate the benefits that were contractually provided to those of us who purchased prior to the acquisition of ILG by MVW. But what Vistana is doing is trying to incentivize the old owners to move to the new platform, and yes, that includes giving up deeds because that adds more inventory to the FlexOptions program.

As several posters said above, we all know Flex is the new program being sold by Vistana, and it's a points/trust program just like DPs; but it is NOT a new program that is a result of the acquisition of ILG by MVW. Flex was being sold by Vistana well prior to the ILG acquisition by MVW. Sheraton Flex was first, followed by Aventuras, and Westin Flex.

And as several very knowledgeable, experienced multi-week Vistana owners said above, there is NO enrollment required to use StarOptions and Flex together (at least during the 8-1 month VSN reservation window). There is no such thing in Vistana as "enrollment". At 8 months, all Flex HomeOptions and Legacy StarOptions function the same way for bookings outside of your home ownership. I think you are confusing Marriott terminology and the Vistana program, or have been confused by things the sales person said trying to sell you the product.

  • Legacy owners of Vistana weeks have a right to book their home week from 12-8 months. Then from 8-1 months, they can use the StarOptions value of their week to book at any of the VSN resorts (I'll take you world for it that it is 23)
  • Several years ago, Vistana created their Flex concept - first Sheraton Flex, then later added Westin Flex, and Aventuras. They also sell Home Options at Nanea. Those re the product(s) they are selling now at most sales offices. Flex products are sold in the form of HomeOptions (points), not deeded weeks. Each Flex group is made up of multiple resorts, and Flex owners have home resort priority at all of the resorts in the group that you own.
  • Each Flex product allows you to use you owned HomeOptions to book within your Flex group of resorts during the 12-8 month period. From 8-1 months, those HomeOptions can be used to book at the other VSN resorts - just like legacy StarOptions. The only real difference between a Legacy week ownership and a Flex ownership is the legacy owner has home resort priority from 12-8 months at that one resort, while Flex owners have home priority at all of the resorts in their Flex group. But starting at 8 months out, everyone - legacy StarOptions owners and Flex owners can book any VSN resort.
  • I'm pretty sure the old StarOptions had owner benefit levels also based on StarOptions ownership. Vistana owners will have to chime in to confirm, but my impression has always been the benefit levels are the same for legacy StarOptions and Flex.
I think what may be confusing you is since you own at Nanea, and Nanea was originally sold as totally separate HomeOptions, but is now also partially in Westin Flex. As dioxide45 said, you can't combine Nanea HomeOptions and Westin Flex to reserve from 12-8 months, but I believe you most certainly can combine them from 8-1 months. Westin Flex is definitely a new program for Nanea, and was a new wrinkle added after the acquisition of ILG by MVW, but Flex programs, including Westin Flex, pre-date the merger by many months/years.

But none of these programs have anything to do - yet - with any kind of cross-program exchange with Marriott Vacation Club.
 

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3,4,and 5 star elite was always in play when you owned a certain level of STAROPTIONS. Flexoptions, flex points, star options, or whatever you or they are calling them are all the same thing. If you own Westin flex or Sheraton flex or aventuras ownership, your “home resort” are all the resorts within the plan. Yes, we know this already. Im not sure what you mean by “enrolled” are you referring to making a voluntary deed retro back into the vistana network with the purchase of a new ownership in flex? That’s also not new. You could always retro voluntary resale weeks back into the vistana network with the purchase of a new ownership, even back when they were selling weeks.

If you buy a resale mandatory deed today in the mandatory resorts and you own Westin flex then yes those star options combine without having to enroll your mandatory resale deed because it’s mandatory and has to be enrolled in the vistana network. The star/flex options combine at 8 months prior to booking.

And technically they can do anything they want and that includes eliminating benefits as it states in the CCRs. Changes can be made at any time.

I've never talked about any resale program or resale rights or benefits. But as to modifying CC&Rs, that is hard to do, unless the corporation controls the requisite % of voting rights.
 

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As several posters said above, we all know Flex is the new program being sold by Vistana, and it's a points/trust program just like DPs; but it is NOT a new program that is a result of the acquisition of ILG by MVW. Flex was being sold by Vistana well prior to the ILG acquisition by MVW. Sheraton Flex was first, followed by Aventuras, and Westin Flex.

And as several very knowledgeable, experienced multi-week Vistana owners said above, there is NO enrollment required to use StarOptions and Flex together (at least during the 8-1 month VSN reservation window). There is no such thing in Vistana as "enrollment". At 8 months, all Flex HomeOptions and Legacy StarOptions function the same way for bookings outside of your home ownership. I think you are confusing Marriott terminology and the Vistana program, or have been confused by things the sales person said trying to sell you the product.

  • Legacy owners of Vistana weeks have a right to book their home week from 12-8 months. Then from 8-1 months, they can use the StarOptions value of their week to book at any of the VSN resorts (I'll take you world for it that it is 23)
  • Several years ago, Vistana created their Flex concept - first Sheraton Flex, then later added Westin Flex, and Aventuras. They also sell Home Options at Nanea. Those re the product(s) they are selling now at most sales offices. Flex products are sold in the form of HomeOptions (points), not deeded weeks. Each Flex group is made up of multiple resorts, and Flex owners have home resort priority at all of the resorts in the group that you own.
  • Each Flex product allows you to use you owned HomeOptions to book within your Flex group of resorts during the 12-8 month period. From 8-1 months, those HomeOptions can be used to book at the other VSN resorts - just like legacy StarOptions. The only real difference between a Legacy week ownership and a Flex ownership is the legacy owner has home resort priority from 12-8 months at that one resort, while Flex owners have home priority at all of the resorts in their Flex group. But starting at 8 months out, everyone - legacy StarOptions owners and Flex owners can book any VSN resort.
  • I'm pretty sure the old StarOptions had owner benefit levels also based on StarOptions ownership. Vistana owners will have to chime in to confirm, but my impression has always been the benefit levels are the same for legacy StarOptions and Flex.
I think what may be confusing you is since you own at Nanea, and Nanea was originally sold as totally separate HomeOptions, but is now also partially in Westin Flex. As dioxide45 said, you can't combine Nanea HomeOptions and Westin Flex to reserve from 12-8 months, but I believe you most certainly can combine them from 8-1 months. Westin Flex is definitely a new program for Nanea, and was a new wrinkle added after the acquisition of ILG by MVW, but Flex programs, including Westin Flex, pre-date the merger by many months/years.

But none of these programs have anything to do - yet - with any kind of cross-program exchange with Marriott Vacation Club.

I'm going to confess that I've not read or analyzed your entire comment -- just wanted to state that the Westin FlexOptions program was rolled out on January 4, 2018. It is not how it's "always" been. And the Nanea participation in Flex is only one building. That's it. One building.
 

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As I've said from my first reply on this thread, I was trying to respond to the comment about waiting for the MVCI and Westin programs to be "merged." I never wanted to go off on these discussions about all of the changes in Vistana and how things work there; I've admitted that my knowledge base is really focused on MVCI ownership. So, I'm going to jump off this feed, but just know that the only thing Vistana is selling now is a points based ownership (reflected by a deed recorded in FL). There are no more sales that are reflected by deeds recorded at the various locations (Hawaii, AZ, FL, CO). I never paid attention as to how ownership was taken for the Mexican locations, so I am not going to speculate now. The points based program has options that are used to book stays at the identified resorts. Those same points aka options are also eligible for BonVoy points, and can be banked and borrowed. The owner levels have been created to offer benefits and encourage owners to purchase more points aka options. The more points aka options you have, the better the benefits. Just like with MVCI. They cannot do away with the old system, because there are deeds recorded. So, these programs are running on separate paths. I do not believe that there is ever going to be a "merger" of the MVCI DP program and any of the other timeshare programs that were under the ILG umbrella.

Happy travels.

Yes. We are all well aware that all that the Vistana side of the business is selling now is the points-based ownership. That's been well documented on these boards for years. We also all mostly agree the programs will likely never truly "Merge", but if you are to believe the CEO, there will be ways for legacy Vistana owners to book MVC and vice versa. We will all see what happens.
 

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@SueDonJ can add more to the MVC side of things. Seems like this member may be confusing certain VSE and MVC terminology. (Not Jim but Leslie)
[QUOTE="JIMinNC, post: 2329801, member: 293"]As several posters said above, we all know Flex is the new program being sold by Vistana, and it's a points/trust program just like DPs; but it is NOT a new program that is a result of the acquisition of ILG by MVW. Flex was being sold by Vistana well prior to the ILG acquisition by MVW. Sheraton Flex was first, followed by Aventuras, and Westin Flex.

And as several very knowledgeable, experienced multi-week Vistana owners said above, there is NO enrollment required to use StarOptions and Flex together (at least during the 8-1 month VSN reservation window). There is no such thing in Vistana as "enrollment". At 8 months, all Flex HomeOptions and Legacy StarOptions function the same way for bookings outside of your home ownership. I think you are confusing Marriott terminology and the Vistana program, or have been confused by things the sales person said trying to sell you the product.

[LIST]
[*]Legacy owners of Vistana weeks have a right to book their home week from 12-8 months. Then from 8-1 months, they can use the StarOptions value of their week to book at any of the VSN resorts (I'll take you world for it that it is 23)
[*]Several years ago, Vistana created their Flex concept - first Sheraton Flex, then later added Westin Flex, and Aventuras. They also sell Home Options at Nanea. Those re the product(s) they are selling now at most sales offices. Flex products are sold in the form of HomeOptions (points), not deeded weeks. Each Flex group is made up of multiple resorts, and Flex owners have home resort priority at all of the resorts in the group that you own.
[*]Each Flex product allows you to use you owned HomeOptions to book within your Flex [B]group [/B]of resorts during the 12-8 month period. From 8-1 months, those HomeOptions can be used to book at the other VSN resorts - [B]just like legacy StarOptions.[/B] The only real difference between a Legacy week ownership and a Flex ownership is the legacy owner has home resort priority from 12-8 months at that one resort, while Flex owners have home priority at all of the resorts in their Flex group. But starting at 8 months out, everyone - legacy StarOptions owners and Flex owners can book any VSN resort.
[*]I'm pretty sure the old StarOptions had owner benefit levels also based on StarOptions ownership. Vistana owners will have to chime in to confirm, but my impression has always been the benefit levels are the same for legacy StarOptions and Flex.
[/LIST]
I think what may be confusing you is since you own at Nanea, and Nanea was originally sold as totally separate HomeOptions, but is now also partially in Westin Flex. As dioxide45 said, you can't combine Nanea HomeOptions and Westin Flex to reserve from 12-8 months, but I believe you most certainly can combine them from 8-1 months. Westin Flex is definitely a new program for Nanea, and was a new wrinkle added after the acquisition of ILG by MVW, but Flex programs, including Westin Flex, pre-date the merger by many months/years.

But none of these programs have anything to do - yet - with any kind of cross-program exchange with Marriott Vacation Club.[/QUOTE]
correct, on all points. Except it’s 8 months - 1 day out lol. The closest thing VSE has to “enrollment” would be to “retro” a voluntary resale back into the network with the purchase of a new developer VOI.

Yes! Elite ownership has ALWAYS been a VSE benefit of owning more. Each level is and always was achieved by the amount of options you owned not amount of VOI’s.

But pretty spot on for someone who doesn’t own in the VSE space.
 

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I'm going to confess that I've not read or analyzed your entire comment -- just wanted to state that the Westin FlexOptions program was rolled out on January 4, 2018. It is not how it's "always" been. And the Nanea participation in Flex is only one building. That's it. One building.

If you'll read the whole comment you'll see we know that. No one said it had "always" been that way.
 
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