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Newbie Urgent Request for Help - Signing contract at Marriott Surf Club 1/9

Discussion in 'Marriott Vacation Club' started by lmwhitman, Jan 10, 2019.

  1. lmwhitman

    lmwhitman Guest

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    Hello,

    I am a new participant here and really appreciate all that this site has to offer. I have an urgent situation which is very time sensitive.

    I committed today by signing an Agreement to Purchase and Loan Application at Marriott Surf Club ("MSC"), both of which I believe are non-binding. I was able to convince the MSC sales team to allow me to come and sign the contract tomorrow.

    I really started to sweat after thinking about what I had just done. I've researched several of the excellent threads here, and am trying to wrap my head around all the terminology, and piece together what I have found.

    I greatly appreciate any assistance or advice any of you pros can suggest.

    First, some facts:

    The agreement is to purchase the following:

    MSC
    2 BR, 2 BA
    Ocean View
    Platinum Availability, 1 week's equivalent timeframe

    Two offers were made by MSC:
    1) Points basis
    Price offered was $40.6K, discounted 20% for "January Promo" and 10% for renting my current week through RedWeek.
    2) Weeks basis
    Price offered was $33.3K, discounted by the same factors as above. they said they have a very limited inventory of weeks left, and everything else going forward after this inventory was depleted, The finance manager indicated this was the lowest he could go, and it was only good if I signed today! After pushing him, he said he could wait until tomorrow AM.

    The unit would be guaranteed in this option to be available from January-April only at MSC except for Week 7 and Week 14. Availability would be possible but not guaranteed any other time of the year.

    In this scenario, if I choose not to use a week for a given year, I can convert it into points (4,075), which could then be used throughout the Marriott point system. This is of interest, as my family and I (wife, two adult children ages 25/21), as we like to trade off every other year or so to other destinations. We could also "borrow" points from future years if sufficient points were not available for the current year's destination (like if we wanted to transfer to Maui for example).

    Of the two options, Option 2 definitely makes more sense to me, assuming either makes sense versus door #3, which is neither and buy resale.

    Some of the questions I have are as follows:

    1) Does this deal make sense or should I purchase via resale? I have looked on Red Week, and there are platinum weeks available for $15-20K.
    2) The MSC sales people told me I would lose access to the point system, and I would only get the week in Aruba if I buy via resale. Is this true?
    3) What other things would I lose by buying resale? Are there workarounds and what are the trade-offs?
    4) Is there a right of rescission in Aruba? If so, should I sign tomorrow and that would give me a few days to get more input here before making a final decision?

    Appreciate your reading this lengthy note assuming you've made it this far :) and any thoughts or additional questions.

    Thanks very much!
     
  2. csalter2

    csalter2 TUG Member

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    I would not panic about the deal not being there tomorrow. They want to sell so take your time and make sure you understand your purchase. I bellieve you have a 2 bedroom platinum season ocean view room. Understand that there are two better categories of rooms at Aruba Surf Club. Those are oceanside and oceanfront units.

    It is important that you understand your choices. I am thinking that the first option is the sale of 4000 points at $14.10/pt. with the discounts you mentioned. That seems to be the going rate these days. If you buy points, you could do much better buying them resale. You could buy them resale for $3 - $5 per point and even with Marriott’s additional $3 per point you would still come out ahead. In addition, your maintenance fees would be at today’s .58/pt a total of $2320. That is higher than what you would pay if you did the week’s purchase.

    The week’s purchase of $33.3K direct from Marriott is good for Marriott’s sales team. You would be able to convert to 4075 points and your maintenance fees would be less in weeks. This year’s maintenance fees at Aruba Surf Club is $1870.13 that is $449.87 less than maintenance fees for the points purchase. So the week purchase is obviously a better deal than the pure points purchase from Marriott.

    As you noted, you can buy a resale week for $15-20K. This is definitely the cheapest option. You have the lower price and the lower maintenance fee. What is important here is how do you travel. The salesman is correct in that you will not be able to convert your resale week to points. However, you can exchange to other resorts using Interval International. You can get two weeks instead of one week because Surf Club has lock off units and for an extra fee you can upgrade your studio unit to a one or two bedroom unit. So it’s possible to split your unit into a one bedroom and a studio and get two 2 bedroom units. That is possible. It could be a challenge in some places like Hawaii during high demand times, but it is possible.

    The decision to buy the resale week or the Marriott week really depends on how you plan to travel. If you are going to travel less than 7 days, use the discounted Destinations Escapes of the Club, use Sunday through Thursday stays, you can get a lot of mileage out of the points and get great value. However, if you plan on staying weeks and plan on going to the same resort most of the time, then the resale week is an easy choice. Your travel pattern and when you travel will have a great deal in making the right choice for you.

    Good luck. I am sure others will chime in.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
  3. T-Dot-Traveller

    T-Dot-Traveller TUG Member

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    Hi Imwhitman ,
    Welcome to TUG .

    you have received excellent information from member csalter2 .

    I am a non Marriott owner , who occasionally reads the Marriott forum . The options outlined
    have been well researched .
    If you want full usage access to the Marriott resort system that meets specific use requirements ;
    there are reasons why purchasing direct from Marriott can make sense , as outlined .

    I am sure other Marriott owners will answer as well .

    Good luck .

    Regardless of which buy/ ownership option you choose , TUG is a great place to find out HOW to
    best use what you own .
     
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  4. TheTimeTraveler

    TheTimeTraveler TUG Member

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    I am thinking that you are very seriously questioning your transaction after the fact.

    With that said, I would strongly urge you to rescind your purchase immediately, do your diligent research, and then make a final decision as to what you want to do going forward.

    Personally? Buying resales will save you thousands, and thousands of $$$$$. Think of it is a "bottom line" issue.

    Best of luck and keep all of us posted.





    .
     
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  5. Iggyearl

    Iggyearl TUG Member

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    From a member who rents timeshares, but does not own..... You registered for Tug about 2 weeks ago. Are you thinking about this purchase because you were offered a gift, and you were shown how nice this resort is? You gave out prices of $33K to $40K. Are you paying cash for this purchase? If not, your financing charges will be quite a consideration. Are you "buying" this package or are you being "sold" on this package? You mentioned that you are considering "A" or "B" as a purchase. For a 2 week member, I would wonder if you should be doing more studying before making ANY purchase.....:ponder:
     
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  6. Steve Fatula

    Steve Fatula TUG Member

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    Does your post indicate you already own a MVCI week (not sure what this means: 10% for renting my current week through RedWeek)? If so, is it enrolled? If so, just note you will have two Interval memberships if that is the case and you wish to trade as you have indicated you do, one for your current week and one for the new resale week if you go that way. This will pump up the ongoing price a little bit for the resale week.

    If I read that wrong, you can ignore as it's all irrelevant.
     
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  7. brianfox

    brianfox TUG Member

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    Welcome to TUG!

    Do.Not.Sign.This.Deal.

    As usual, salesperson is telling you half truths. Buying resale means you cannot convert for points every year. That is where his truth ends. You can still exchange your week for other properties through II. You can rent your reserved week out and rent into your desired destination. The perk of Destination Points is not worth the premium you would pay over a resale week.

    Since you are familiar with Redweek, have you researched what it would cost to simply rent where you want to stay, and skip the whole ownership thing - or at least push off the decision?
    Once you consider your yearly maintenance fee, II fees, exchange fees, etc, renting a week where you want to stay often costs nearly the same. Except that owning means you have parked a ton of cash in a deed which will lose value over time. Plus when you exchange, it becomes a waiting game and you have no idea what unit size or view you will get. Sometimes it works out better than you hoped for, and sometimes a whole lot worse.

    I say this as a Marriott Weeks owner in Hawaii. We used to rent into the islands. Now we own resale. The only reason we purchased is that the weeks were inexpensive and we like to stay several consecutive weeks (it can sometimes be difficult to find rental weeks that line up). We are not missing out on anything by being unable to get points for our weeks.

    I think there is also a misconception about points. From your post, I *think* you may be a week owner already. If so, I'm sure you recall the salesperson promising you that you could stay any week you like at your home resort, and that you could exchange it to anywhere. But of course that is only partially true - If you want to reserve the week you really want, you probably need to reserve it 365 days out - the moment it becomes available. And if you want to exchange into some resorts, you need to reserve a high demand week (again, 365 days out) and request the exchange a year or two ahead of your stay to increase your chances of a successful exchange.

    Well, even though I don't have a points option, I'm sure that just because you have the quantity of points to get Maui in Summer doesn't mean you actually can. You probably need to cash those points in at least a year ahead of the stay. And getting consecutive weeks for points is even harder. And they don't tell you that if you take the 4075 points for your week, it would cost you, say, 4300 points to stay in your home resort. Around here we refer to that as the "point skim".

    Bottom line is you were very wise to come here and ask about your deal. If you were questioning it inside, it means it was not right for you. Walk away from it and do research here. Rent in the meantime. Then make the best decision for you.

    If after all of this you are hellbent on buying from the developer, I promise they will be glad to take your money for the exact same terms later. If you walk away, they will probably call you in a week saying they have a once in a lifetime deal that just opened up...
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
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  8. lmwhitman

    lmwhitman Guest

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    Thanks to all for the responses thus far. After sleeping on it and based on all of your valuable feedback, we declined to move forward with Marriott today.

    Carlito, the incremental benefits from buying direct are generally not important to us. We do not typically travel for less than one week at a time, as I take vacations from work in 1-week increments. Same is true for the Destination Escapes.

    However, we expect we would likely stay at the Surf Club 50-60% of the time. What methods have been most effective for you when exchanging? Interval or renting out your Surf Club unit and then renting at the destination resort? Does a platinum week at Surf Club compare favorably to similar dates at other resorts from a value perspective? When renting, how do you rent a specific week if you have a floating week and can you typically rent for more than the MF? Are there any disadvantages owning an unenrolled vs. enrolled week when trading for other MVC's? What is involved in splitting the two bedroom?

    Iggyearl, I have been considering a purchase of a Marriott timeshare for some time but just discovered TUG. We rented this week at MSC from Redweek. My questions to Carlito relative to rentals point to my other thought which is to not buy at all but perhaps just rent. I was definitely being sold on these two packages. Now that all of you helped me to come to my senses, I am going to take my time and consider all my options before proceeding with anything.

    Brianfox, thanks for your comments re: exchanging through II. How much do these fees add up to on an annual basis if I exchange? My spread on renting this week was about $1,900 (probably overpaid as I paid $3,800 for the week). What is a typical discount on asking price you can get on rentals. Understand YMMV, but what is a reasonable expectation here? I am definitely considering just renting rather than buying resale, but I am confused as to how you rent when you do not have a fixed week. By the way, I am not currently an owner, only a (first-time) renter.

    Again, thanks to all for the great input. Saved me a bundle!

    Larry
     
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  9. csalter2

    csalter2 TUG Member

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    I am glad we have helped you in making an informed decision. If you are going to stay at the resort most of the time and usually want one week stays then the resale week should do fine.

    When exchanging I have put my week in early and I choose the best high demand week possible and then do a request first for what I want. I have always gotten what I wanted. I have not had to pay any exchange fees since I joined the Vacation Club. Your club dues pay for your Interval International membership, your exchanges, your locking off of your unit, and trading for Marriott Rewards Points.

    A platinum week at Aruba Surf Club has very good trading value to a platinum week in other desirable areas such as Hawii during their platinum weeks. Remember platinum weeks at various resorts can have different dates. A platinum week for Aruba Surf Club is early in the year from January to March. However, platinum in Hawaii is all year and platinum in Hilton Head is in the summer. Thus, similar dates are not really a way to match the trading power of a week.

    If renting your unit or want to exchange a unit, you want to find the most desirable time of year. If you have a floating week, you should reserve the most desirable week you can find which is usually in a platinum season and if holidays like President’s Day or New Years or July 4th are part of your platinum season, then try to book those as they are highly desirable times that people decide to rent. (Please note that President’s Day and New Years are not available at all resorts during platinum season. Marriott places a premium on those weeks and usually they are Platinum Plus weeks) After you have reserved/booked the highly desirable week, you can then advertise to rent the week. Some resorts can rent for more than maintenance fees. Aruba Surf Club is one of those properties. You can look on Redweek and see 2 bedrooms that are ocean front, oceanside and ocean view being rented anywhere from $2500 to $5000 for the week. The more desirable week and demand the higher the price that can be had. Maintenance fees at Aruba Surf are $1870 for this year, so yes it is possible to make maintenance fees in your rental.

    As of now, there are no disadvantages to owning an unenrolled week compared to an enrolled week when trying to exchange into other Marriott resorts.

    Splitting the two bedroom is easy. You are given a choice to book your full two bedroom, your one bedroom side or your studio side. You make that choice when you attempt to make your reservation for your unit.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
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  10. TXTortoise

    TXTortoise TUG Member

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    I hadn't seen any responses so maybe this will help for now to...

    What methods have been most effective for you when exchanging? Interval or renting out your Surf Club unit and then renting at the destination resort? (Others...)

    Does a platinum week at Surf Club compare favorably to similar dates at other resorts from a value perspective? (Dean?)

    When renting, how do you rent a specific week if you have a floating week and can you typically rent for more than the MF? If you are going to rent, you want to reserve the highest value week you can with Marriott, 12 months prior to the check-in date. The date to do this is found in your Marriott account and is based on the earliest check-in date. (Education & Resource:Helpful Tools:When Can I Reserve)

    Are there any disadvantages owning an unenrolled vs. enrolled week when trading for other MVC's? Trading is done via a deposit to Interval International. Enrolled or Unenrolled makes no difference

    What is involved in splitting the two bedroom? Reserve your week with Marriott. You can than have them split it for an $80 fee, i.e., leaving you with a 1BR and a studio to use that week, rent one or both for that week, or deposit one or both to Interval and trade to another resort/week.

    How much do these (II) fees add up to on an annual basis if I exchange? (Top of my thoughts) Membership Fee starts at $99/yr + Trade Fee (Marriott Only) @ $119 + optional fees, per week traded.

    What is a typical discount on asking price you can get on rentals. Assuming Aruba, best bet is to see what they are listing for on Redweek, VacationCandy.com, VRBO, etc.

    I am confused as to how you rent when you do not have a fixed week. You reserve your deeded 'floating' week with Marriott, then rent that week.

    What methods have been most effective for you when exchanging? Interval or renting out your Surf Club unit and then renting at the destination resort? (Others)

    Does a platinum week at Surf Club compare favorably to similar dates at other resorts from a value perspective?
    (Others...)[/QUOTE]
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
  11. Steve Fatula

    Steve Fatula TUG Member

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    The other difference is you pay for II membership, you pay for any lockoff, and you pay for the exchange. In years you do this, you will pay more than you would on an enrolled week since internal exchanges are free if enrolled. But since you said you would occupy 50%+ of the time, it does not matter much as you will be ahead.
     
  12. m61376

    m61376 Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    Aruba weeks trade really well in II. Outside of Flexchange I've traded the studio side for 2 BR's at the Surf Club, Canyon Villas and even the new towers in Maui, and most recently for a 1BR in Cancun.
    Platinum weeks on the resale market have gone from 10,500-13.500 or so (GV being on the cheaper end and OS in the 12.5-13.5 range).
    Also- for that point purchase- how many points were you even considering buying? Keep in mind that, while Marriott allots 4075 points for a Platinum week, there isn't one week in the season you can actually book a 2BR unit there.

    You made the right decision to wait. Ask questions and make sure you fully understand the system before making any purchase. I know it's hard to resist when you're enjoying a wonderful vacation!
     
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  13. TUGBrian

    TUGBrian Administrator

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    grats on rescinding and saving thousands!
     
  14. csalter2

    csalter2 TUG Member

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    It’s insignificant if you can’t book there with 4075 points when you can just book it without it when you own there. Why do people keep bringing that up? It is irrelevant.
     
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  15. m61376

    m61376 Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    The reason why I mentioned it was the number of points he was talking about purchasing, when trying to decide whether to buy a week or points. I wanted the OP to realize that even though his week would be worth 4075 points, if he was considering buying points to book Aruba 50% of the time, as he mentioned, he’d in fact need to own more than 4075 to book a 2 BR. Naturally, if buying a week and using your week to reserve it’s immaterial, but many newcomers don’t realize that they may not be buying enough points to make their reservation.

    I was recently at the Westin Lagunamar and taking with someone who was thinking of purchasing there. At the presentation they offered him 4 weeks for 60K. He really thought he was getting enough Staroptions to book 4 weeks in a 2BR, and was wondering if that was a good deal. He did not realize that studio, 1BR and 2BR weeks had different point requirements, and that time of year would also affect point requirements. He assumed 4 weeks meant 4 winter weeks in a 2 BR because that’s what he was interested in. He was a bright guy, but the salesman probably glossed over the details and he didn’t know the questions that needed to be asked.

    So my point is that if you are considering buying points, make sure you know the point cost of the week you’re interested in reserving, and not simply assume they cost as much as the allocated value of the week. Certainly not trying to beat a dead horse, but to help someone avoid an expensive misunderstanding.
     
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  16. csalter2

    csalter2 TUG Member

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    I understand. It's just that I often see people complain about not having enough points when they own there and there is really no reason to complain. I understand your reasoning.
     
  17. Steve Fatula

    Steve Fatula TUG Member

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    Yeah this happens a lot and somehow it is turned into a "downside" of enrolled weeks which is even more ridiculous. Of course, the upsides are rarely mentioned and it would be pretty dumb to use points for your enrolled week at full rate!

    But yes, m61376 is correct. Though still a little unfair. After all, if one used it out of season, he'd get more time. If he only needed 1 BR, he'd get more time. He said he'd trade a lot, well, with Marriott, he could go for 5 night trips which on the correct days save a lot too. etc. etc. It's hard to pick out one thing to consider really. After all, if he only had a week and he wanted to go to Branson, a trade is also a bad idea. Many places might be an uneven exchange, so, that's a waste too.
     
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  18. NYFLTRAVELER

    NYFLTRAVELER TUG Member

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    To the original poster, If I may ask who was the sales person and the manager you dealt with at Surf Club Aruba?
     
  19. lmwhitman

    lmwhitman Guest

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    Not sure of last names, but my salesperson was named German. He has only been with Marriott for one month.

    Manager was named Francis. Again not sure of last name.

    Why do you ask?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  20. NYFLTRAVELER

    NYFLTRAVELER TUG Member

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    I was recently there and was less than impressed with the salesperson and sales manager
     
  21. lmwhitman

    lmwhitman Guest

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    Did you deal with different people?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  22. NYFLTRAVELER

    NYFLTRAVELER TUG Member

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  23. m61376

    m61376 Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    I totally agree. My post was meant purely to point out that it appeared to me that the OP wasn't considering buying enough points to obtain his stated objective of reserving an Aruba week 50% of the time, assuming he wanted a 2BR during the Platinum season that he was discussing. Again, my reasoning in pointing out the difference between allocation and cost was not to lament about the skim, but people tend to hear what salespeople stress- and my impression was that perhaps the OP was assuming that he'd only need 4075 points to book a Platinum week.

    The other thing germane to booking Aruba weeks in the Platinum season- those weeks will never be in the Trust, so availability is subject to whatever weeks owners deposit/exchange for points. In reality, most owners either use or rent those Platinum weeks, so it's much easier to reserve a Platinum legacy week than to reserve it using points. That's another consideration if the OP wants to use it at least 50% of the time, especially if he/she doesn't have a lot of flexibility.
     
  24. bogey21

    bogey21 TUG Member

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    If you didn't sign anything, you are home free. If you did sign something, review it carefully to make sure it can't come back to bite you...

    George
     
  25. Dean

    Dean TUG Member

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    I went earlier in the week and talked to GiGi on an informational tour just to ask a couple of questions. She seemed quite informed and appropriate.
     

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