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Non-conforming Contract's Use Year Changes Without a Corresponding Points Realignment

Discussion in 'Wyndham Vacation Resorts' started by CCdad, Oct 9, 2019.

  1. CCdad

    CCdad TUG Member

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    A contract with non-conforming use year moves from Seller to Buyer. Points for the use years are added as a new use year in Buyer's account. Current Year plus one or two subsequent use years.

    Example:

    Transfer date: July 1, 2017
    Use Year: June 30
    Contract Amount: 100K
    Points History Records Added to Buyer's Account
    Use Year 6/30/2018 - 100K
    Use Year 6/30/2019 - 100K

    Buyer sees two non-conforming June 30 use years added to their account with 100K points each. The points for use year June 30, 2017 (if added) will have just expired and then removed with another record in the points history screen. All is well.

    If there was no realignment of their non-conforming contract, during the 2017 year end processing Buyer should have seen a new use year ending 6/30/20 added with 100K points in it.

    This doesn't happen. Instead the Buyer sees 100K points for the contract added as 2020 calendar use year points.

    Buyer reviews their ownership screen and sees that the contract that was transferred on July 1, 2017 originally as a June 30 use year now shows as a December 31 use year. But there was no realignment of the use years in their account, removing the 100K points from the June 30 use years and adding full 100K points to their calendar use years.

    Buyer has been shorted 50K in points in their account for the period July 1 - December 31, 2019. But Buyer will still be paying the monthly MFs on points owned and not awarded.

    I've noticed this at least twice on other owners' accounts. This should have been very easy to spot, but sometimes folks just accept that what's in their account history must be correct.

    Will Wyndham correct this error prior to the calendar year 2019 use year points expiring - answer at the moment is TBD?

    If they do, unless these owners are VIP Platinum they must either use these points, donate them or deposit them into RCI.
     
  2. bendadin

    bendadin TUG Member

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    Maybe I'm not seeing the question but you have to remember that the points are calculated by the use year on the last day of the contract period and not by the first day. So the points that came in on July 1, 2019 are in fact 2020 points so they slid the date to the January 1. Did the empty buckets disappear because THAT was a real problem for me. I got realigned on a 400k JUL UY and 154k APR UY. Talk about a sting.
     
  3. CCdad

    CCdad TUG Member

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    Maybe filtering and then showing the Buyer's points history records by contract makes the issue much clearer:

    July 1, 2017 - June 30, 2018 100K

    July 1, 2018 - June 30, 2019 100K

    Jan 1, 2020 - Dec 31, 2020 100K

    There were no updates to the Buyers points history screen other than this. The "old" non-conforming use years still remain, however the Buyer was never credited for points for the period July 1 - Dec 31, 2019.

    Somehow the Ownership Screen had this contract changed from June 30 to a December 31 use year between July 1 2017 and year end processing in late December 2017.
     
  4. dgalati

    dgalati TUG Member

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    Clearly a theft of points by Wyndham on a non prorating of points when Wyndham aligns use years. Just my 2 cents.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
  5. dgalati

    dgalati TUG Member

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    Wyndham is helping themselves to points that are not prorated. Only a agent of Wyndham would believe otherwise.
     
  6. dgalati

    dgalati TUG Member

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    You were hoodwinked out of 315,500 points ( 50% of 400,000 & 75% of 154,000) on Wyndham not prorating points on the use year alignment . Call it what you may but it is clearly a theft of points wnen Wyndham aligns a use year and does not prorate points!
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
  7. bendadin

    bendadin TUG Member

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    Water under the bridge. It all comes out in the wash.
     
  8. Braindead

    Braindead TUG Member

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    You two need to stop living in the past!! This is not the way it is done today!! Get over it unless you want to post a screenshot of the this actually happening.
     
  9. MaryBella7

    MaryBella7 TUG Member

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    This has become a peril of purchasing a resale account with different use years. Although we pay maintenance fees monthly, it is actually a yearly amount that is divided for our convenience. Did the July 2018-June 2019 points become realigned, or were they already used? Those would be the points that are being paid for from July 1-Dec 31 2019. While I am a fan of pro-rating because it seems like the fair thing to do, if the July 2018-June 2019 points were used already, then you are paying for the vacation taken with them.
     
  10. CCdad

    CCdad TUG Member

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    As I indicated in the two posts above, there was no realignment / proration or however you want to think about it. Those were the only records posted in the owner’s points history for this contract.

    The fact is, this owner was not credited with the appropriate points for their 2019 ownership of this contract.

    Whether they’ve used the resale contract points awarded or put them into RCI is irrelevant.

    It was Wyndham’s mistake and they’ve been provided the ownership number, contract number and a screen shot of the three records posted above (the points amount was different than 100k). It’s not my account, but someone I know from traveling over the years.

    This was intended as a public service announcement to let people know that there are still inherent system issues in the way contracts are added to an owner’s account. How can their system allow the use year to be changed in the Ownership screen without requiring a realignment of contract points in the Points History screen?

    As with any other issues we’ve seen in Voyager, do you honestly expect Wyndham to publicly post their internal system errors? They are a publicly traded company; issues like these should result in greater scrutiny by their external auditors with respect to their system integrity.

    Recall the fiasco 3 years ago when Wyndham ultimately found another reservation system flaw and rushed to implement Voyager. Ron and other mega owner’s had reservations that were both discounted and upgraded. When those reservations were cancelled, instead of being credited back the points for the discounted reservation booked they were credited with full points as if the unit was neither discounted NOR upgraded.

    Example: a VIP Platinum discounted Bonnet Creek 1Br deluxe in prime season would’ve cost only 83k points; if it was upgraded to a 4Br Presidential they were credited with 424k points when the reservation was cancelled. Perhaps that’s an extreme example illustrating how bad the error could’ve been, but in some high point prime locations the error in credited points could’ve been much higher (Canterbury at San Francisco, NYC Midtown 45, Waikiki Beach Walk Christmas week, other Hawaii locations, etc).
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
    MaryBella7 likes this.
  11. Braindead

    Braindead TUG Member

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    IRRELEVANT?? So you & dgalati still want that two sets of use year points!!
    You don’t care if the points have been used or put in RCI?

    Every time a owner runs out of points you must think Wyndham should give you more points!! That’s the basis of your argument
     
  12. CCdad

    CCdad TUG Member

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    Here’s the comparison on the example above, if the contract would’ve been aligned to the calendar use year on the day it was transferred:

    Year As Credited As Corrected
    2017 50,000 100,000. Didn’t receive 50,000 for January - June 2017
    2018 100,000 100,000
    2019 50,000 100,000 Didn’t receive 50,000 for July - December 2019
     
  13. CCdad

    CCdad TUG Member

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    As your moniker implies, you simply love to stir up the pot!

    Perhaps if you bought a Wyndham points contract and paid all the MFs on it, yet received no points you’d understand! But as your moniker indicates, that’s just too much to expect!
     
  14. dgalati

    dgalati TUG Member

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    The funny thing is BD did buy a contract from developer after July and they were not going to award him points until Jan of the next year. He threatened to rescind and Wyndham added the points. He understands what the situation is just feels it is fair that Wyndham stopped proration on use year alignment. BD didn't want to pay maintenance fees on points not available but calls no proration fair on a use year alignment.
     
  15. paxsarah

    paxsarah TUG Member

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    The 2019 use year points were originally July 1, 2018 to June 30, 2019, issued and presumably used. The 2020 use year points were then aligned from where they would have been originally (running July 1, 2019 to June 30, 2020) to be a use year starting January 1, 2020.

    I'm not contesting the argument that there should be prorating or some compensation (for instance, a freezing of MFs) for the "bare" period from 7/1/19 to 12/31/19, but I did want to correct the notion that the 2019 ownership was shorted - the 2019 UY points ran through June 30, 2019. The 2020 ones start on 1/1/20.
     
  16. dgalati

    dgalati TUG Member

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    Non proration of points is standard policy now and all points to transfer even If 2019 points were used by the previous owner. Wyndham will extend the use of these points to Dec 31st on a use year alignment. Wyndham will transfer full points to buyer even if no points are available from sellers account for current use year. With this new policy of transferring all current use year points that are not available from the seller the sellers account will go negative. Question I have- how does Wyndham account for this negative balance when it zeros out sellers account at the beginning of the next use year? Another interesting point to ponder is no negative points balance will occur if all current use year points have been used when giving deed back to Wyndham through Ovations.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
  17. Braindead

    Braindead TUG Member

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    This occurred in 2017.
    Now CCdad thinks the owner should get double points for future use years not just the current use year which is 2018 in this instance.
    In 2017 the 2019 use year points ended 6/30/2019. That was realigned to 12/31/2019
    If any points need prorated it was the 2018 use year.
    I might be Braindead but I think 2018 is behind us. CCdad argument is for 2018 points, nothing to do with 2019 points
    No one was shorted 2019 points.
     
  18. dgalati

    dgalati TUG Member

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    Unlike your situation many don't have the threat of rescinding a purchase on a private party sale when Wyndham shorts them points.
     
  19. CO skier

    CO skier TUG Member

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    I agree with this analysis. The new owner was not shorted the 50k points. The full 100k points were awarded, just with a six month delay and with an additional six months to use the points relative to the "old" Use Year.

    In the eventual year when the contract is sold, if the new owner uses all the points for the "new" Use Year and sells the contract within the window of the "old" Use Year (after Jan. 1st and before June 30th, in this example), the Use Year alignment would make no difference. If, instead, the contract transfers in September, the new owner would have "overpaid" three months of maintenance fees -- July, August and September -- as a result of the Use Year alignment.
     
  20. Braindead

    Braindead TUG Member

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    The wind must of changed directions again on the flip flopper
    You’re guaranteed to be right & wrong.
     
  21. dgalati

    dgalati TUG Member

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    Wyndham policy and what I believe is fair is hardly flip flopping. Stating a opinion about new Wyndham policies being unfair to new owners maybe hard for you to understand but then again then name says it all. When Wyndham's new policy of not depositing points on a developer purchase after July affected your account you threatened to rescind the purchase. Unlike your situation many don't have the threat of rescinding a purchase on a private party sale when Wyndham shorts them points. That is what I would call flip flopping.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
  22. Braindead

    Braindead TUG Member

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    Is CCdad asking for more than 100,000 use year points in each use year?
    It appears to me he is
     
  23. dgalati

    dgalati TUG Member

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    The point is if 2019 use year ends June 30. The 2020 use year starts July 1. Now when 2020 July use year gets pushed to Jan 1st of 2020 that is where the 6 months of points is missing on a non proration. I understand Wyndham will also let you use the aligned points that would of ended June 30 until Dec 31. I know policy is now no proration on use year points and Wyndham will transfer all points even if seller used them. I have changed strategy and adapted to the new rules. The new rules can be used to a owners advantage knowing all points transfer even if seller used them. The negative balance may also affect many selling to a private seller instead of giving back to Ovations without having the negative balance come into play.
     
  24. dgalati

    dgalati TUG Member

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    As someone posted earlier it's water under the bridge. It will all come out in the wash. I would like to add quit beating a Dead Horse!
     
  25. Braindead

    Braindead TUG Member

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    You must be looking in your mirror again
     

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