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Open Season Rates Changes for 2020

Discussion in 'Hilton Grand Vacations Club / HGVC' started by alwysonvac, Dec 3, 2019.

  1. alwysonvac

    alwysonvac Sighting Expert TUG Lifetime Member

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    Bought and sold several over the years including Disney & Four Seasons
    Thanks for posting :)

    2020 Open Season rates changes
    1. Rates have increased or decreased based on location.
    2. Some rates are now based on unit size and season only (excluding unit type)
    3. Some have lower rate difference between weekday (Sun - Thurs) vs weekend (Fri-Sun) stays.

    For example a week stay during Platinum Season in the Orlando’s Tuscany Village
    Studios was $847 (decreased to $679)
    One bedroom was $1019 (decreased to $841)
    Two bedroom was $1415 (decreased to $1333)
    Three bedroom was $1937 (decreased to $1807)


    For example a week stay during Platinum Season in the Oahu’s Lagoon Tower
    Studios was $1004 (increased to $1102)
    One bedroom was $1222 to $1415 (increased to $1509 across all unit types)
    Two bedroom was $1415 to $1884 (increased to $2237 across all unit types)
    Three bedroom was $2442 (increased to $4809)


    2019 Open Season for the Tuscany Village

    D0F5885A-BB5C-46DA-BBAE-BA82E73B992A.png


    2020 Open Season for the Tuscany Village


    A4A03A34-1A40-4856-8E1F-F2BFA73AD7D4.png


    2019 Open Season for the Lagoon Tower

    85DCC582-8188-4307-9E98-9046CDF9CDFC.png
    2020 Open Season for the Lagoon Tower

    02E4F0FB-65F3-42EA-8A6F-7D8A55E1F56A.png
     
    CaliGirl08 and hurnik like this.
  2. Tamaradarann

    Tamaradarann TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    Yes, I think they finally did it. Made Open Season in Honolulu not cost effective!! I believe that is because the cost of Hotel
    Rooms has gone up there so they raise the Open Season rates knowing that if HGVC members don't book them they can rent them on HHonors for even more!

    This makes our recent purchase of whole property in Honolulu more beneficial since at times we did use Open Season to extend our stays before or after a long timeshare stay. Now we will not need to deal with the booking and high cost circus. In addition, as long people we know want to visit Honolulu give us enough notice we will be able to put them up in a timeshare using our large point balance right across the street from our condo using our large point balance before we sell off some of our timeshares.
     
  3. alwysonvac

    alwysonvac Sighting Expert TUG Lifetime Member

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    VISTANA Mandatory (Orlando & Scottsdale)

    Bought and sold several over the years including Disney & Four Seasons
    Other locations took a big hit as well.
    Here’s Valdoro Mountain Lodge.


    2019 Platinum Season weekly rates ranged from $946 to $1740.
    2020 Platinum Season weekly rates now ranges from $1308 to $3148

    22549F77-CD51-4A5A-A407-70BED2311DEA.png

    1BA601A3-6508-45AB-81D7-B30FDD389553.png
     
  4. ski_sierra

    ski_sierra TUG Member

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    Wow. I had not paid any attention to the open season rates as we rarely make last-minute plans. But this looks like a terrible devaluation. It's always good to have the option to add units to your plans if friends/family decide to join last minute.

    Who controls these costs and where does this revenue end up?
     
    CaliGirl08 likes this.
  5. GT75

    GT75 Moderator

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    Wow, I actually used OS at Valdoro this year. I know that @PigsDad has also used that in the past. And the past looks like that is what it is going to be too.
     
  6. SmithOp

    SmithOp TUG Member

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    Not surprising for a public traded company, its all about shareholder value now, not owner satisfaction.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
     
  7. Talent312

    Talent312 Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    The pockets of the HGVC executives, as Christmas bonuses.
    .
     
  8. jestme

    jestme Guest

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    I'm trying to think of any other business, in any other industry, anywhere on the planet, who raises prices by 25-50% in a year. I cannot think of any. This will be my last year using Open Season. It's the benefit I originally bought HGVC for, and now, it is 100% useless. My ownership has been severely downgraded to the point where I'm considering dropping HGVC altogther. I was willing to pay the high MF's and high buy in price when I got Open Season rooms at a large discount, but even a 25% hike in rates is unacceptable.
    If any of the money came back to the resort providing the service to offset the increased overhead costs of Open Season, that might help. But they do not. It might make the MF's at the more popular resorts lower if they did. Instead, they are 100% kept at HGVC. So as an owner, I pay for the extra cleaning, electricity, wear and tear, etc. for people who give nothing to my resort at all. Then HGVC want to charge me for these ridiculous Open Season increases!
    What is this based on? Hotel pricing? There is no comparison with a hotel, that has 3PM check in instead of 4, 11AM checkout instead of 10. Daily room cleaning, Hhonors point eligibility, booking capability a year in advance, no restrictions based on "point availability", no maintenance fees, no limit to who can stay in a room without paying for a "guest certificate", etc.
    End of rant.....
     
  9. CalGalTraveler

    CalGalTraveler TUG Member

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    Unfortunately it appears that this benefit has devalued and is going the way of HHonors conversions, and cruises...dodo bird...

    We only used open season rates once so not much loss. Although my preference is to see the revenue accrue to the property and support the cost of additional rentals, perhaps beefing up HGVC's financial results in this way is not so bad if it staves off predators such as Diamond/Apollo.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
  10. brp

    brp TUG Member

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    As it should be, from a legal and ethical standpoint. Or, another way:

    We can keep our prices well below market rates in order to make our owners (people who are already part of our system) happy, or we can raise rates closer to market and maximize shareholder value, which is something we have a fiduciary responsibility to do.

    Not sure why they should really do anything differently. They're not in the business of "making owners happy at the expense of the bottom line." They're a business that should look our for the business and the shareholders. Anyone who bought thinking that the relationship was somehow different than that did so under a misconception.

    I see the same sorts of things on a DVC board I read as well as on airline FF boards in the discussion about the companies' "loyalty" to the members.

    Cheers.
     
    JIMinNC likes this.
  11. SteelerGal

    SteelerGal TUG Member

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    Wow. This puts our qtrly trips to San Diego out of our budget.
     
  12. jestme

    jestme Guest

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    Keep in mind, in most resorts, (especially Hawaii) HGVC does not own any of these units they are renting out. They are owned units that are currently not being used by their owners. I don't buy their "traded in points" nonsense. If that were the case, then the Club Season points would all be in full week blocks when they come available. We, as the owners, are allowing them to rent out our unused units, to other members of the club and they are taking advantage of other members because of our generosity.
    BTW, I understand the concept of shareholder value, and their commitment to it. However, shareholder value should be seen as a long term thing, not a short term one. When Open Season revenue becomes obsolete due to overpricing, revenue will go down, and the management can explain it then. When it affects sales, they can explain that as well. "The wrong inventory mix" is an excuse they are currently using, as they wouldn't admit it could be a sign of harder sales opportunities due to the lessening of benefits.
     
  13. brp

    brp TUG Member

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    The question is: even though it is getting higher for us than it used to be, how does it compare to rates at equivalent hotels in the area? Because that's the point at which it becomes an obsolete concept due to overpricing. And I'm not as familiar with room rates in these areas, so I can't say where they are on that spectrum (and I also wouldn't put it past them to overprice despite what I said :)). But just raising prices is not enough to obsolete the model. It needs context.

    CHeers.
     
  14. jestme

    jestme Guest

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    Sorry, but as I said in my first post, you cannot compare a hotel room with all the advantages it has over a timeshare. With all the timeshare booking limitations, it's up front capital expense, the inability to book your Open Season vacation more than 30 days out, etc. When I boutght, the Open season rates were 1/5 of the rate of a "hotel room", if you do want to compare. Not any more. In Vegas, you can now get a timeshare room on Expedia for cheaper than Open Season rates, months in advance, no capital expense, no point limitations, etc. It has been that way for years. In Hawaii, they are about 65% of a hotel room rate, ignoring the constant "Hilton Honors special rate" promotions I get weekly for $199 / night which with the other benefits of the hotel room, make it a wash. In addition, Open Season in Hawaii is next to impossible to get, unless you are willing to move every two days to a different unit in a different building and be "homeless" during moving day. It usually means a number of nights getting up just before midnight 30 days in advance to hope you can find something. I've been there.
    My point was Open Season used to be a sales and owner advantage. It is no longer. Over the past 5 years, they have killed the golden goose. As they continue to lessen the brand, sales get harder, the excuses at the annual shareholder meetings get larger, and the business model collapses. That isn't good for shareholder value.
     
  15. brp

    brp TUG Member

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    I'm not trying to compare them, and was not looking at the model where OS was a actual reason to buy (although maybe it was for some). My view was that one bought a TS to use the TS. OS was an additional non-point benefit, so would compare to a hotel room. Not sure I am aware of "all the advantages" of the hotel room over the timeshare. Hotels are more likely, for example, to have parking charges and resort fees, so I see an advantage for OS there (assuming that they don't do that here, but I'm not sure of that).

    Cheers.
     
  16. alwysonvac

    alwysonvac Sighting Expert TUG Lifetime Member

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    Bought and sold several over the years including Disney & Four Seasons
    I can understand a slight increase in open season rates (10% to 15%) but some of these increases are absolutely ridiculous. They’re simply cherry picking the higher demand locations and unit sizes.

    The Lagoon Tower two bedroom weekday nightly rate increased 64% (from $191/night to $314/night).
    The Lagoon Tower three bedroom weekday nightly rate increased 108% (from $328/night to $684/night).


    Honestly you have to ask yourself where does the price gouging end? How will HGVC boost their numbers in 2021? Will they increase the resale transfer fees by 200%, increase the annual Club dues by 150%, increase the reservation fee by 75% and/or add new fees (perhaps reservation change fee)?

    When do owners stop being the gift that keeps on giving? Who is looking at the longer term impacts? As prices rise across the board who is going to own these weeks?

     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
  17. Ralph Sir Edward

    Ralph Sir Edward TUG Member

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    Boy, am I glad I bought Bay Club. Since I bought it to use, none of those extra fees affect me.
     
  18. Tamaradarann

    Tamaradarann TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    Well that depends are you a member of the HGVC? If not you are correct and have none of the benefits or cost increases of the Club effect you. If so, the cost of Open Season has gone up in prime locations. So if you do go to the Bay Club using your week or 2 weeks and want to extend your vacation another few days either before or after to get lower cost flights, which is what we have done in Honolulu, you now will pay additional for this benefit just like everyone else.
     
  19. brp

    brp TUG Member

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    I'm not sure I understand this. We bought Vegas to use at Bay Club, so we get to use points there at lower MFs. Unless we also want to book more days using OS rates, these changes don't affect us either.

    Cheers.
     
  20. fernow

    fernow TUG Member

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    First they came for the ... open season.

    Ok, bit dramatic but jestme and alwaysonvac make some good points. Getting nice rooms for significantly less than market because you paid to be part of the "club" was a real benefit used by some club members. Now that benefit of club membership is gone.

    What benefit will they come after next? We love using our HGVC timeshare points and at some point plan to sell them when we get too old to travel. The more benefits taken away, the harder our units will be to sell.

    So, they came for the open season and since I don't use open season I said nothing. Then they came for the... ???
     
  21. brp

    brp TUG Member

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    I guess you (and some others) and I see this differently. As far as I can tell, they have not "come for" the Open Season. It is still there, same as ever. They have just increased the rates. But the program is untouched.

    Each year they raise MFs. We get to do the same things with our points each year, but we pay more to do so. However, hotel rates typically go up, so we are still coming out ahead. Same program, increased rates.

    Also, while they can rejigger the points in a given property to some degree among seasons/days of week, the overall has to stay the same, as far as I know. So they can't really devalue that much, if at all. I guess they could limit folks to Home Resort only as I believe that booking other resorts is not part of the defined contract. But they're not realistically going to do that.

    So, not sure what there is to "come after," especially as I feel that they have not "come after" OS in any significant way expect, perhaps, to make it less of a good deal.

    Of course...Apollo...we shall see :)

    Cheers.
     
  22. fernow

    fernow TUG Member

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    You have more faith then I do! I sure hope you are right. You seem to know a lot about HGVC. I, like you, own in Vegas but mostly travel to the BI and mostly stay at the Bay Club. Take that away and... well, I don't see me using my Vegas home week too much!

    The only constant is change.
     
  23. jonevans

    jonevans TUG Member

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    Yes open season is costing way more on HGVC Not my usual do it alot..... but now JOKE dam TUG did it here also Now $800 dollars for last call...... are we seeing a pattern around the world Things cost more I need a raise at work to take a vacation


    Yes hgvc owner
    Yes tug saved me a lot $$$
    Yes know my 2 properties were bought at good resale price and i have desire of selling at some value, but my purchase moneys were invested with out expectations of returning any value
     
  24. CaliGirl08

    CaliGirl08 TUG Member

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    I just became an HGVC owner in September. To raise open season so much is bad for owners. I used it once and liked the low prices. If I wanted to pay hotel prices, I didn't need to buy a timeshare. It's nice with a kitchen but I do not use it every vacation. I just like the 2-3 bdrms w/ living room concept for my big family.
     
  25. escanoe

    escanoe TUG Member

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    I have a huge expectation of my resale time shares returning value to me and my family. That is what I bought them for. Do I expect to eventually sell them at a financial profit over what I paid? No.
     

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