Orange Lake just acquired SilverLeaf Resorts

[TimeShareTalk]

If you are a Silverleaf owner and have Endless Escapes DON'T convert HICV

IMPORTANT INFORMATION IF YOU ARE A SILVERLEAF OWNER AND HAVE ENDLESS ESCAPES OR BONUS TIME.

If you want to keep your Silverleaf Endless Escapes and Bonus time as you have always used it DO NOT convert to Holiday Inn points.

If you stay as a Silverleaf owner, you can keep and use your endless escapes and bonus time.

If you convert to Holiday Inn points, you will LOSE the ability to use your multiple weeks of endless escape time back to back or in concurrence. It is a week before you can book time again on any other account. Basically, only one week of your Endless Escape/ Bonus Time will transfer in a usable way.

BEWARE: some salespeople are downright LYING about this and telling people they can still use their time back to back. Ask them straight out to put it in writing and SHOW YOU IN WRITING that you can use Endless Escape and Bonus Time Back to Back or in parallel.

 

[Beeker007]

Hi everyone - checking back in after 18 months to check for any news as well as provide some of my own (usefulness of which depends on your situation). We owned two red weeks with Silverleaf (one "normal" and one Presidential) and after waiting for a year-and-half to see what changes were going to take place or be proposed under the new ownership, I finally decided to explore getting rid of my "normal" week. There's obviously a lot of scams out there, but I did run across something called a "deed back" so I decided to try it. I called them up at the end of October and asked them about the deed back option and with no questions asked she said they would send out the paperwork to get it started. Within about a week, I had the paperwork and I promptly sent it back (around Nov. 10). Then I would check the website occasionally to see if both my weeks were listed and around the end of the 1st week in December, the week "disappeared". A couple of days before that I had received a billing statement in the mail for both weeks (going to miss the option of prepaying for the year and saving 10%), but then about a week ago (Dec. 20th) I received another billing statement for just the week that we still owned. Given that the dues are now $90/mth (so $1,080/yr) it just got hard for us to justify spending that extra grand on a week we rarely used (occasionally would make back to back BT reservations or multiple reservations at the same time so friends could stay with us). At the end of the day, it just wasn't worth having two weeks anymore. I was very happy with how quickly the title was transferred (zero cost to us) and how smooth the process was.
I plan on holding on to the Presidential week for at least a couple more years to see what changes happen in the future and certainly won't give it away if we decide to part with it at some point. Just wanted to post this for those who want to get rid of their week(s) - it's easy to do and didn't cost us anything. Thanks.

Chris

 

[GTT1966]

Chris,
We bought into Silverleaf in 2011. The 'Deed Back' sounds very interesting. I may have to figure a way to get out from under the proverbial rock an hard spot. The difference from what you describe is HIVC convinced us in April 2016 it was in our best interest to move our properties from Silverleaf week system to HIVC's point system.
During a presentation in Branson, April 2016 we switched our Silverleaf weekly properties over to HICV and their points system. A shock came end of November 2016 when we received HIVC's invoice for 2017 maintenance fees on two Red Weeks we've owned with Silverleaf since 2011. Two Red Weeks (July) Branson, MO, Ambassadors the Maintenance Fees increased 260% or from $1,781 paid in 2016 to $4,632 for 2017. Since getting the 2017 invoice we've made several attempts to reach a responsible person at HIVC. All we've managed so far is the run-around. I'm curious if any other ex-Silverleaf member has experienced such an outrageous increase in maintenance fees going from Silverleaf to HIVC?
Jim

 

[Sandy]

That is outrageous! Something is fishy. Perhaps there was a mistake, so keep checking with everyone to see if you can find out what happened.

Just a question, did you upgrade when you switched? I am referencing whether you added more HICV HIVC Points. Perhaps that is some of the additional charge?

 

[GTT1966]

Thank you Sandy for your comments.
We didn't upgrade or add points per se. The April 2016 transaction was to switch our two previously owned red week Ambassadors at Holiday Hills, Branson to the new owner HICV's point system. From their conversion table the HICV salesperson told us each of our weeks was valued at 315,000 pts/year in the HICV system. Our (2) Red Week Ambassador, 3BR units totals 630,000 HICV points per year. Nothing more was added.
Not until November 2016 did we learn the effect this would have on our yearly Maintenance Fees, an increase of 260%. Subsequent to learning this we've been told by HICV there is no mistake, and that maintenance fees are based on point value of each deeded property. Shame on me for not asking during the presentation but never in a thousand years would I have suspected anything outrageous as this. From all appearances during the sales presentation all was up front, informative and was a one-time win win offer for Silverleaf owners.
It's almost laughable, but during one recent conversation with a HICV rep, the rep said we shouldn't expect an increase as this next year.

Comparing apples with apples I'd like to hear if this is normal evaluation, HICV Maintenance Fee/HICV Point Value. In other words, apparently there is a HICV's standard conversion table stating a single (3) BR Ambassodor at Holiday Hills, Branson, MO is valued at 315,000 points, accordingly Year 2017 Maintenance Fee for that same unit is $2,316. Is anyone else experiencing something similar? Checking around I've found nothing that comes close, even in higher valued locations than Holiday Hills.
Be aware any SL owner considering a switch to HICV.
Jim

 

[tschwa2]

The question is did they raise the MF on the 3 BR unit so that if you hadn't converted it would be the same, perhaps a special assessment to get the unit up to what they would consider standard for a 3 br unit worth 315,000 points or is the higher price only for those in the points program? Also if that is the case maybe they are only renovating the rooms that are in the points program. Looking at the numbers my guess is part of the increase would be a one time assessment but a 3 br unit could conceivable be in the $1300-$1600 annual MF range.

 

[GTT1966]

Thank you for the comments..
Apparently the higher fee is for the points program. Mid December 2016 I managed to reach a sales manager at Holiday Hills and asked that specific question. Seriously, she said there was an increase in MFs for SL owners but only slight amounts. That was after I told her my neighbor own similar units and still in the SL system. In other words had we remained with SL we wouldn't have experienced the large increase. Go figure that one.
I was focusing on the MFs. Now adding salt to the wound, in April we paid an initial $10K fee (negotiated down from a much higher figure) to make the transition to HICV's Resorts/Points system. We were told this would give us all benefits HICV members enjoy. They failed to mention their benefit 2.6 x MFs.
Both red weeks are the same unit/building, the last Ambassador built and opened in 2012. We used one of our weeks this past July and found the unit in excellent condition, as always nearly new in appearance. In my opinion the Ambassador's are the premier show units at Holiday Hills and as such SL maintained these units in top condition.
No one said nor was it communicated in the 2017 invoice this would be a temporary assessment.
I'd like to hear what owners are experiencing in MFs for equivalent points. There aren't that many (3) BR units out there but those I found info on MFs were one-half to less.
Jim

 

[tschwa2]

Did they re-deed you ownership into a trust with 630,000 points? That is really the only way I can see them charging you by point. With an undivided interest in the resort or trust you end up paying the average price MF per point. As far as I know all of the other resorts were straight conversions of deeded weeks so that you pay the same whether in the points system or out of the points system with the exception of the annual membership fee which you pay if you are in the point system.

 

[Solai marie]

Does anyone know if holiday inn will give us summer bay owners full equity if we buy into holiday inn club. My weeks are paid for and I'd like to upgrade into signature but do you know if they will honor the price I paid my for my unit to summer bay?

 

[tschwa2]

Does anyone know if holiday inn will give us summer bay owners full equity if we buy into holiday inn club. My weeks are paid for and I'd like to upgrade into signature but do you know if they will honor the price I paid my for my unit to summer bay?

Timeshare companies won't give you full equity for another brands timeshare. If they say they are they are just inflating your purchase price. When you trade in another brands timeshare they can't resell it, in fact they end up having to pay another company to take it. You aren't going to get any lower price ultimately then if you came in without your summer bay (and gave it away yourself) and negotiated a lower price.

 

[Solai marie]

It's not another brand! It's the same property.

 

[tschwa2]

It's not another brand! It's the same property.

Then you mean the former Summer Bay in Vegas or Marco Island? Usually when only referred to as Summer Bay the assumption is Summer Bay in Orlando. The same when referring to Orange Lake - usually means the one in Orlando. They may honor the full price you paid especially if you bought from Holiday Inn. If you bought when they were Summer Bay then I would think they would give you a substantial portion of the price you paid but not sure if it would be 100%

 

[Learnedhardway]

I own two red week Silverleaf Presidentials and have now been to multiple sales presentations trying figure out what is going on. I don't really learn anything except they want my money. We have been tempted to convert, but they insist we have to "purchase" something make the shift. I don't need another week and $30,000 to be in the HIVC family seem like a lot for very little gain. Reading this list I am now convinced that "upgrading" would be a huge mistake. My maintenance fees went up ( and we lost the 10% upfront discount) but they are nothing to what I just read. Thanks for info.

This forum is great. Ignorance is not bliss. Especially in dealing with timeshare salesmen.

 

[TUGBrian]

sorry for the delay, have just recently removed the silverleaf tag from the resorts on TUG and update the links to the correct OL website.

 

[Paula Biggs]

My mom and I went to a meeting yesterday. We have an Ambassador unit at SL Hill Country. In order to convert, they wanted us to pay $30k the difference in our equity and what the property is worth $87k. So even though we got a super good deal they wouldn't let us have the full value of our property to exchange. Next they offered us a property to buy for $13k and we could then convert our Ambassador to points and have two maintenance fees. We turned that down and they offered us a bi-annual lodge to buy with maintenance of $300/yr in addition since we got so many points we would have to pay over $1900 for our Ambassador in maintenance fees a year and the cost of the lodge was $5k. My mom took the bait and bought. This morning she woke up not liking the fact of going from $1000 in MF to $1900 in one year and $2200 every other year. She went this morning and cancelled the contract. We would still like to convert to points but that is ridiculous they jacked up the Ambassador maintenance fees up to $1900 while lodges are only $300 - they say it's because we get more points. Seems like we are just paying for points and not really the upkeep of the property. They said we won't get the same good deal at the next meeting but that's ok as we are saving $1000 a year in MF. If someone finds a way to convert without paying increased maint fees please let us know.

 

[Sandy VDH]

They are charging MFs on the amount of points you own, NOT on the underlying unit. So since they provide a lot of points for the Ambassador units, they are essentially jacking up the MFs. This is the only situation where I have seen that a fixed week converted to points pays MF based on points awarded and not on underlying deed. My experience with both HGVC and Wyndham are that if you convert to points, you pay MFs based on your underlying ownership and get the points awarded to that unit. Wyndham has some pure points resorts, where you buy UDI (undivided interest) where you pay based on points, but there are NEW resorts, that NEVER sold fixed weeks. But Wyndham has a combination of both fixed weeks converted and UDI. But you pay MF based on ownership type. Hilton has only ever sold fixed/floating weeks converted to points

I have no idea why HICV decided to take the approach that you have a weeks you pay MF based on the week, but when you convert to points you pay MFs like a pure points resort.

It makes no sense to me, and I expect they are not going to get a lot of ambassador conversions. I think they have inventory available however as the only things I find are 3 BR Ambassador and 2 BR Presidential units available via HICV points.

 

[Paula Biggs]

yes it's not right the way they are structuring it...I asked if keeping my Ambassador weeks how much MF will go up and they said it will just be gradually each year but they have no idea if or when the price will go up as high as $1900 a year. There is a clause in the papers which shows the maintenance fees based on what unit you own and what week it is deeded. For those with Diamond Ambassador the points is higher as well as the MF, thinking it was about $2100/yr. I think for the lodges you only get about 45k points but MF is only $300 a year.

They are charging MFs on the amount of points you own, NOT on the underlying unit. So since they provide a lot of points for the Ambassador units, they are essentially jacking up the MFs. This is the only situation where I have seen that a fixed week converted to points pays MF based on points awarded and not on underlying deed. My experience with both HGVC and Wyndham are that if you convert to points, you pay MFs based on your underlying ownership and get the points awarded to that unit. Wyndham has some pure points resorts, where you buy UDI (undivided interest) where you pay based on points, but there are NEW resorts, that NEVER sold fixed weeks. But Wyndham has a combination of both fixed weeks converted and UDI. But you pay MF based on ownership type. Hilton has only ever sold fixed/floating weeks converted to points

I have no idea why HICV decided to take the approach that you have a weeks you pay MF based on the week, but when you convert to points you pay MFs like a pure points resort.

It makes no sense to me, and I expect they are not going to get a lot of ambassador conversions. I think they have inventory available however as the only things I find are 3 BR Ambassador and 2 BR Presidential units available via HICV points.

 

[Sandy VDH]

The high season week ambassador units actually get 315K worth of points, a fair chunk of points. Penthouse units are 350K.

 

[Solai marie]

When holiday inn dessert club purchased summer bay resorts, are any of the the owners aware that OLCC changed the equity amounts on every single one of those legacy owners. This was done by John Sutherland right before the resort opened for sales. Are owners aware that this fraudulent practice has resulted in hundreds and hundreds of owners having to paying thousands more to upgrade there deeds. Were you scammed??? If you were scammed into paying thousands and thousands to upgrade your deed to the club please contact me..

 

[Sabrina]

Silverleaf Gradual Benefits Reduction & Problems

There has been a subtle/gradual deterioration of certain rights and privledges for Silverleaf owners (if you have experienced this, please let me know):

1. Check-out has been reduced to 10 am for all members (although for a temporary period, I was told by corporate you can try and request a noon check out if you are a diamond or presidential owner, but this old benefit is temporary and all silverleaf owners will be set at 10am going forward);

2. The diamond/presidential gifts on check-in were eliminated (i.e., I was originally told it was a result of a survey conducted by corporate, but when I asked to see a copy of it, I was informed it was really just a corporate decision and not something solicited to silverleaf members),

3. There is no longer a diamond/presidential check-in line,

4. All bonus time reservations are now set as lodges and it will be up to the inventory management specialists to determine if they will upgrade you at the time of check-in (i.e., in the old days it would be on first come first serve availability and up to the level of the unit type you owned).

5. in 2015 we received a letter notifying us that maintenance fees were going up ~$7 per month to cover new website access (do the math and that it equates to a few thousand dollars per unit per year...). They also said it would not go up again that year. Of course, after the acquisition, maintenance fees went up again in the same year and most of the resorts still do not have in-room internet access.

6. I attended a presentation this week at Fox River resort. In it, they said that Bonus Time would be very difficult to get going forward even though it would be maintained and that our Diamond Benefits would continue to be whittled away. They tried to convince me to convert my ambassador and presidential units to HIVC points and claimed they would maintain the bonus time priveldeges (I asked why they said Bonus Time would be useless for Silverleaf but somehow would be valuable for HIVC owners...they said that their system treats SL owners differently from HIVC owners?).

7. The online system has been down for several months during the hours of 12 midnight and 7am CST (is anyone else experiencing this?). It was also down for an entire weekend. I have notified SL owner services multiple times but no luck...anyone else with any luck?

8. In regards to Bonus Time: I wanted to understand...will we really lose bonus time availability? I mean, if SL owners convert to HIVC, than those owners will start giving up their SL deeds to start using points across both networks and HIVC will have more options to choose from but does it necessarily mean we will lose in the end in terms of availability? Any thoughts?

I am looking into seeing if a class Action suit can be initiated. I own six units refused to convert and now being told I can't book multiple units on bonus time as we are use to doing. I have EE and BT. and was told this week I can only use one at a time even though they were all bought at diffrent times and six diffrent mortgages

 

[spoody]

I am looking into seeing if a class Action suit can be initiated. I own six units refused to convert and now being told I can't book multiple units on bonus time as we are use to doing. I have EE and BT. and was told this week I can only use one at a time even though they were all bought at diffrent times and six diffrent mortgages

We are currently working on that. Please be patient and we don't want to put too much info on these forums. A few of us are slowly and privately contacting owners regarding this.