Our resort actually has upfront fee companies recommended on their site!

[VPR]

This is a fact. So why don't you make an effort to advise the seller of a reasonable price? No realtor would list my house for three times its market value - because they need to actually sell it to get paid.

You don't give a rat about making a sale, because you've already collected their money. You sit back, counting your cash, and when the timeshare doesn't sell, you shrug your shoulders and say "hey, I advertised it", and blame it on the seller's unreasonable pricing.

You are a hypocrite and a disgrace to real working people. Thank you for posting here and proving it.

I appreciate every one's comments good and bad. Part of the reason why I am here is to get the feedback from timeshare owners and improve our business. I know the Tug Community is very anti-fee upfront and I am not here to change that. You can say an upfront fee is not necessary but to advertise aggressively on the Internet, newspapers, magazines, TV, Radio, and billboards it is truly the only way.

It was brought up a few times about Real Estate companies and taking a commission on the back end. While I understand this would be great, it would also be near impossible. There are laws when it comes to Real Estate and this is the problem with charging a commission. To charge a commission on the back end of a sale you would have to be licensed as a realtor in every state and possible some other countries depending. Not to mention if it was as easy as being licensed don’t you think Century21 and Remax would be more aggressive in the market? When did any of you go into a Real Estate office looking to buy a timeshare?

I agree there are other options out there like Tug and Redweek but they truly do not mass market in the fashion we do. We are also not saying we are the only option our client should take when it comes to selling their timeshare. For this reason we offer a money back guarantee that I have mentioned a few times in my above rebuttals.

I believe in being an innovator in this industry and we are working hard to implement many new changes one of which will improve buyer and renter interaction with our buyer specialist team. Like I said above I appreciate the criticism about our website, I have my team looking into these issues as we type and hope to have any issues resolved shortly.

Again all comments and suggestions about how we can be our better company will be considered for future long term business sustainability. Thank you to those of you that understand what I'm trying to do right now. We want to hear from you!

 

[bruwery]

buyatimeshare,

You make a few salient points, but again, here's my point:

If I give you money to sell my timeshare, I am hiring you as my agent. As my paid agent, my expectation is that you make reasonable attempts to sell my property. That BEGINS with providing me guidance on posting a reasonable selling price. Comparing it to other listings isn't effective, because an overwhelming number of timeshare listings are grossly overpriced. Anybody as close to the business as you are should be well aware of that.

A reasonable check is to compare it to actual sales. That's the fundamental basis of any appraisal process. Your firm handles enough volume that you should be familiar enough with the industry to get within the ballpark on most properties.

Also, if you were to advise me as to a reasonable price, and I refused to accept reality and come down from my target, would you suggest that perhaps this isn't the right avenue from me, and turn down my upfront fee?

In other words, would you turn down my money if you felt you couldn't sell the property at the price I demand?

I'll come back to this thread and read your response at some point when I need a good laugh.

 

[eoneguru]

I may be wrong, but .....

don't I see Real Estate companies using the TUG Classifieds? I've been reading this thread with much interest and one thing comes to mind. What was your reason for resurrecting this thread? Are you a Timeshare Evangelist or just a masochist?

Ray

 

[skinsfan]

There are laws when it comes to Real Estate and this is the problem with charging a commission. To charge a commission on the back end of a sale you would have to be licensed as a realtor in every state

This is a Lie, you only need to have a Brokers license in 1 state since timeshares DON"T NEED TO BE APPRAISED OR TOURED TO BE SOLD! And yes I did go through real estate classes

Not to mention if it was as easy as being licensed don’t you think Century21 and Remax would be more aggressive in the market?

Century 21 pops up in sponsored ad's and deals in the TS realm, I admit they have a horrible rep and are generally a rip off but they are there

we offer a money back guarantee that I have mentioned a few times in my above rebuttals.

15% within the ORIGINAL selling price, so if the rep quotes you a high price and you have to reduce MINAMALY then you are up a creek without a paddle. Really lame policy, why don't you do this without price restrictions???

I also noticed you never provide actual traffic stats OR offer / sales information... why did you specifically avoid those questions???

 

[TUGBrian]

While posting opinions (negative or positive) is fine...lets please tone down the insults and such and keep the discussion cordial.

Thank you

 

[VPR]

buyatimeshare,

You make a few salient points, but again, here's my point:

If I give you money to sell my timeshare, I am hiring you as my agent. As my paid agent, my expectation is that you make reasonable attempts to sell my property. That BEGINS with providing me guidance on posting a reasonable selling price. Comparing it to other listings isn't effective, because an overwhelming number of timeshare listings are grossly overpriced. Anybody as close to the business as you are should be well aware of that.

A reasonable check is to compare it to actual sales. That's the fundamental basis of any appraisal process. Your firm handles enough volume that you should be familiar enough with the industry to get within the ballpark on most properties.

Also, if you were to advise me as to a reasonable price, and I refused to accept reality and come down from my target, would you suggest that perhaps this isn't the right avenue from me, and turn down my upfront fee?

In other words, would you turn down my money if you felt you couldn't sell the property at the price I demand?

I'll come back to this thread and read your response at some point when I need a good laugh.

When giving guidance on pricing a timeshare we do look at properties sold and what they sold for. If we don't have any current sales we will search other sites for sale prices as well.

If you were to refuse to price at the recommendation we give you but you insist on listing it for that price yes we are going to list it. We are a For Sale by Owner Company so what people want to price there property is completely up to them. If you went to AutoTrader and wanted to list a 93 Ford Escort for $20,000 are they going to stop you? No because it is "For Sale by Owner"

Have we turned away business, yes, I had a customer a couple days ago call who is now 60k in debt with a Fairfield some how he got horribly taken advantage of by the resort. He even has the sales rep that sold it to him saying that she was wrong. We told him 100% positive we would NEVER be able to sell his 300k points for 60k. We then pointed him to TUG and gave him some numbers for Fairfield to call to try and get to the bottom of the issue.

We had another customer call us last night that has been getting collection calls for the past couple of month demanding payments because he was behind and that if he didn't pay they would ruin his credit. This was a very elderly man who didn't know better so he paid. They took $3000 from him then called back a month later demanding $2000. I did a conference with the customer and called the collection company to hopefully straighten things out. What I got was a very rude gentleman who would not answer my questions like; What is his member number, what was his last payment other than the $3000. They simply pulled his credit report saw what he had a load for and tried to get the money out of him. We then spent over an hour on the phone with the resort getting to the bottom of the problem and found that he was not in collections with the resort. After that we got on the phone with his credit card company and reversed the charges. He called us originally because he wanted to sell because of these issues. We did not list his property and made nothing for helping him.

There are a lot of scams out there and it is unfortunate for the people who get taken and for us since we have to defend ourselves in this manner. I assure you we do everything possible to make every customer happy and plan to continue to do just that well into the future.

 

[skinsfan]

Lovely story, still doesnt change the fact you still avoided my questions and all you are managing to do is self promote your site.

When giving guidance on pricing a timeshare we do look at properties sold and what they sold for. If we don't have any current sales we will search other sites for sale prices as well.

If you were to refuse to price at the recommendation we give you but you insist on listing it for that price yes we are going to list it. We are a For Sale by Owner Company so what people want to price there property is completely up to them. If you went to AutoTrader and wanted to list a 93 Ford Escort for $20,000 are they going to stop you? No because it is "For Sale by Owner"

Have we turned away business, yes, I had a customer a couple days ago call who is now 60k in debt with a Fairfield some how he got horribly taken advantage of by the resort. He even has the sales rep that sold it to him saying that she was wrong. We told him 100% positive we would NEVER be able to sell his 300k points for 60k. We then pointed him to TUG and gave him some numbers for Fairfield to call to try and get to the bottom of the issue.

We had another customer call us last night that has been getting collection calls for the past couple of month demanding payments because he was behind and that if he didn't pay they would ruin his credit. This was a very elderly man who didn't know better so he paid. They took $3000 from him then called back a month later demanding $2000. I did a conference with the customer and called the collection company to hopefully straighten things out. What I got was a very rude gentleman who would not answer my questions like; What is his member number, what was his last payment other than the $3000. They simply pulled his credit report saw what he had a load for and tried to get the money out of him. We then spent over an hour on the phone with the resort getting to the bottom of the problem and found that he was not in collections with the resort. After that we got on the phone with his credit card company and reversed the charges. He called us originally because he wanted to sell because of these issues. We did not list his property and made nothing for helping him.

There are a lot of scams out there and it is unfortunate for the people who get taken and for us since we have to defend ourselves in this manner. I assure you we do everything possible to make every customer happy and plan to continue to do just that well into the future.

 

[TUGBrian]

Can you justify these numbers? I'm doing some simple math and this is what I get:

$2,500,000/year in advertising. This equals $6850/day.
I don't know how much you charge, but do you sell enough to actually spend almost $7K EVERY DAY on advertising alone?

If so, are you hiring?

I can safely say thats roughly 685 times what we spend per day on advertising.

Thats just crazy. and paints a very morbid picture for the future of search engine rankings.

 

[Bill4728]

buyatimeshare / VPR

Can you please explain this ad on your website link ?

How can you justify selling at worldmark point package without a mention of how many points you are trying to sell?

 

[skinsfan]

Wow the maintenance fees seem VERY low as well!!!

buyatimeshare / VPR

Can you please explain this ad on your website link ?

How can you justify selling at worldmark point package without a mention of how many points you are trying to sell?

 

[VPR]

This is a Lie, you only need to have a Brokers license in 1 state since timeshares DON"T NEED TO BE APPRAISED OR TOURED TO BE SOLD! And yes I did go through real estate classes



Century 21 pops up in sponsored ad's and deals in the TS realm, I admit they have a horrible rep and are generally a rip off but they are there



15% within the ORIGINAL selling price, so if the rep quotes you a high price and you have to reduce MINAMALY then you are up a creek without a paddle. Really lame policy, why don't you do this without price restrictions???

I also noticed you never provide actual traffic stats OR offer / sales information... why did you specifically avoid those questions???

I am not here to discuss good or bad of other companies so I am not going to comment on Century21.

If we list a property at the price that the owner wants (again we are a for sale by owner company) and list at the price that the owner wants. We give them the highs and lows of comparable properties along with properties that have sold and what they sold for. Would it be fair to us if we advertise the property for the $20,000 they wanted then they turn around and sell it to their friend for $1000? If we could list it at a $1000 then it would be fair and would give us the ability to sell it.

I am not trying to avoid your questions I have been working on getting you stats that I can attach. I now have the PDF and would be glad to attach it but don't see an option to attach documents to this thread. If you would like me to email it to you can send me an email and I will be glad to reply back with the attachment. Send an email to info@vpresales.com we get a lot of spam there so I don't mind having that address on the internet. Please put in the subject "Request for Stats", I will have my secretary email them to you.

I hope we are proving that we are not trying to hid anything from you and trying to be as transparent as possible.

 

[VPR]

don't I see Real Estate companies using the TUG Classifieds? I've been reading this thread with much interest and one thing comes to mind. What was your reason for resurrecting this thread? Are you a Timeshare Evangelist or just a masochist?

Ray

Honestly I think I'm a masochist! Just trying to have some intellectual conversations and learn something from our customer base.

 

[VPR]

buyatimeshare / VPR

Can you please explain this ad on your website link ?

How can you justify selling at worldmark point package without a mention of how many points you are trying to sell?

Hi Bill,

Thanks for the heads up we have corrected the issue. The property has 8000 points. It is a new ad and the information was not displayed on that property correctly.

Remember we are a only going by what the owner provides us so if an ad is lacking information it is hard for us to correct the issue. Sometimes owners don't know what they own and promise they will get back to us with corrected information, then fail to ever contact us back.

Again thank you for bringing this to our attention

 

[VPR]

I can safely say thats roughly 685 times what we spend per day on advertising.

Thats just crazy. and paints a very morbid picture for the future of search engine rankings.

What we pay doesn't effect search engine ranking. This is our budget for paid sponsor placement, and other mendia.

We do spend a lot of money toward optimizing our website to be SEO Friendly.

 

[TUGBrian]

that is a very misleading statement and you know it (or you dont and thats what you were told...if so I apologize)

Either way...paid sponsor placement, pr, any web advertising, backlink sites/farms, etc etc...all contribute to search engine rankings.

If it were all about SEO and website optimization...everyone would be ranked the practically the same.

 

[VPR]

This is a Lie, you only need to have a Brokers license in 1 state since timeshares DON"T NEED TO BE APPRAISED OR TOURED TO BE SOLD! And yes I did go through real estate classes

We contacted the Florida Department of Business Professional Regulations they state "without clarification that you need to be either a licenses Real Estate agent or a licenses broker in the state of Florida to facilitate any sales of Florida timeshares."

Do you have anything that states otherwise?

 

[skinsfan]

Is it that hard to post statistics with links in a comment??? You don't need to compare yourself to C21 but you did in an earlier post. Your client base is not here, your critics are here and you can never appease your critics! The fact is your just trying to get free advertising.

I am not here to discuss good or bad of other companies so I am not going to comment on Century21.

If we list a property at the price that the owner wants (again we are a for sale by owner company) and list at the price that the owner wants. We give them the highs and lows of comparable properties along with properties that have sold and what they sold for. Would it be fair to us if we advertise the property for the $20,000 they wanted then they turn around and sell it to their friend for $1000? If we could list it at a $1000 then it would be fair and would give us the ability to sell it.

I am not trying to avoid your questions I have been working on getting you stats that I can attach. I now have the PDF and would be glad to attach it but don't see an option to attach documents to this thread. If you would like me to email it to you can send me an email and I will be glad to reply back with the attachment. Send an email to info@vpresales.com we get a lot of spam there so I don't mind having that address on the internet. Please put in the subject "Request for Stats", I will have my secretary email them to you.

I hope we are proving that we are not trying to hid anything from you and trying to be as transparent as possible.

 

[skinsfan]

Deleted see above post

 

[VPR]

that is a very misleading statement and you know it (or you dont and thats what you were told...if so I apologize)

Either way...paid sponsor placement, pr, any web advertising, backlink sites/farms, etc etc...all contribute to search engine rankings.

If it were all about SEO and website optimization...everyone would be ranked the practically the same.

To Clarify we spend a lot of our budget on PPC (Pay Per Click Advertising) this does not effect our Organic Search Ranking. Since the day when Google and Yahoo first started allowing advertising on their search engines we where ranking at the top of the PPC.

In the past year we started putting a lot of effort into getting a higher Organic Ranking. We have done everything from listing on 150 directories, optimizing our website, link exchanges, and the list goes on.

If PPC effected the Organic ranking we would be at the top of the organics. Unless I am mistaken but I have never read anything about PPC Effecting the Organics.

 

[skinsfan]

Great now it states they have 8,000 points selling at $1.81 per point, doesnt WM sell for that price. I can go on ebay all day long and pay less than .80 cents per point. Great Job guys keep up the good work

Hi Bill,

Thanks for the heads up we have corrected the issue. The property has 8000 points. It is a new ad and the information was not displayed on that property correctly.

Remember we are a only going by what the owner provides us so if an ad is lacking information it is hard for us to correct the issue. Sometimes owners don't know what they own and promise they will get back to us with corrected information, then fail to ever contact us back.

Again thank you for bringing this to our attention

 

[VPR]

Is it that hard to post statistics with links in a comment??? You don't need to compare yourself to C21 but you did in an earlier post. Your client base is not here, your critics are here and you can never appease your critics! The fact is your just trying to get free advertising.

How can I post a PDF File to this thread?? I don't see the option. I have a PDF Export from my Google Analytics available if you want, that is the best I can do.

Free Advertising, I hardly consider this free advertising, Tug had some post concerning my company and I feel I should resolve any concerns, that is all nothing more. If I was advertising I do believe Tug would take this all down.

 

[VPR]

Great now it states they have 8,000 points selling at $1.81 per point, doesnt WM sell for that price. I can go on ebay all day long and pay less than .80 cents per point. Great Job guys keep up the good work

When someone buys a timeshare and takes a loan out for the timeshare it means that they owe probably what the resort sold it to them for and have not paid anything off on the loan. Circumstances might say he need to sell it for whatever reason. The owner of this timeshare might not be willing to take a loss on it and that is what he wants to sell it for. Again we are "For Sale by Owner"

If you search we have some priced in the .80 cents per point and have many sold in that range. I agree this property is priced higher than what we are currently selling them for but this is the price the owner wants for his points

 

[skinsfan]

VPR your gonna hate me if your already dont

I have proof you only need a Brokers licence in 1 state and its not a phone call.

Here is the link to this article...

Recent Resale Decision

One important recent district court ruling deals specifically with the Commerce Clause as applied to timeshare resales. Yet, it is important that you be aware of it and read it (or have your counsel do so) because its impact could extend far beyond the four corners of the judge’s ruling to affect many other types of resort real estate and travel-related offerings.

In that case, the court held that two key timeshare situs states, Florida (24% of projects) and California (8%), had violated that constitutional provision in their timeshare resale licensing requirements. This past July, in Stroman Realty v. Antt, Judge Hughes in the Southern District of Texas granted Stroman’s motion for summary judgment and permanently enjoined those states from requiring the licensed resale broker, Rii® Stroman, promoting resales on an interstate basis, to become licensed under their laws.
Another important aspect of the case, supporting the legality of what are sometimes known as “advance fees” for the broker to list the timeshares, may be the subject of a future column.

Journey from Lawsuit Filing to Ruling

The case began over seven years ago, in 1998. At that time, the states of California and Florida demanded that the Texas licensed broker also become licensed under their laws when any one or more of the elements in a real estate transaction involved their states. This could be that the buyer, seller or property, was located within one of their respective states, in order to conduct the transaction in accordance with their demands.

The court ruled that a real estate license in the state where the broker is resident suffices if the real estate broker conducts business with a physical presence only in his specific state. Real estate brokers who meet that physical presence test may not have to apply and pay for licenses in every state.

In the instant case, the broker had only one office, in Conroe, Texas, north of Houston. The firm was duly licensed in Texas, where each of its agents was properly licensed as a real estate agent or broker. The court noted, “Every state regulates real estate brokers. The regulations are remarkably similar.”

The Court added, “[T]he states need not impose regulations on brokers everywhere to protect their citizens because [the other states] already have laws in place.” In view of the company’s and agents’ Texas licenses, “[t]he states and their consumers have a Texas forum for claims under Texas law or theirs... Texas routinely enforces claims by outsiders in its courts.”

This position results in a huge savings in time and money for the real estate industry, including brokers. The savings resulting from the elimination of unneeded licenses and the simplified resulting process also work to benefit consumers selling or buying resale timeshares by helping to create a more fluid market.

We contacted the Florida Department of Business Professional Regulations they state "without clarification that you need to be either a licenses Real Estate agent or a licenses broker in the state of Florida to facilitate any sales of Florida timeshares."

Do you have anything that states otherwise?

 

[skinsfan]

Haven't you heard the phrase, any publicity is good publicity

How can I post a PDF File to this thread?? I don't see the option. I have a PDF Export from my Google Analytics available if you want, that is the best I can do.

Free Advertising, I hardly consider this free advertising, Tug had some post concerning my company and I feel I should resolve any concerns, that is all nothing more. If I was advertising I do believe Tug would take this all down.

 

[skinsfan]

So you take his money KNOWING that it is WAY over priced and he will never get a refund or a sale. That is the whole reason people have issues with FSBO and why your company will never get support from Tuggers.

When someone buys a timeshare and takes a loan out for the timeshare it means that they owe probably what the resort sold it to them for and have not paid anything off on the loan. Circumstances might say he need to sell it for whatever reason. The owner of this timeshare might not be willing to take a loss on it and that is what he wants to sell it for. Again we are "For Sale by Owner"

If you search we have some priced in the .80 cents per point and have many sold in that range. I agree this property is priced higher than what we are currently selling them for but this is the price the owner wants for his points