Our resort actually has upfront fee companies recommended on their site!

[VPR]

So you take his money KNOWING that it is WAY over priced and he will never get a refund or a sale. That is the whole reason people have issues with FSBO and why your company will never get support from Tuggers.

I'm not looking for support just great conversation. The way I look at it, we are trying to find buyers all day. If one person buys a property from us that has seen these threads, then we are moving in the right direction. We will keeping moving forward and help people price their properties to get them sold. We are committed to helping our sellers find buyers. In no way have I asked anyone of you to sign up with our company to sell your properties.

Now if a buyer finds a great deal on our website are you OK with a buyer buying a property advertised through our website that they believe is a good deal?

 

[skinsfan]

People in this forum buy properties from FSBO sites regularly (just read other threads) and thank you for admiting you're advertising on this site (whether the advertising was for buyers or sellers).

I'm not looking for support just great conversation. The way I look at it, we are trying to find buyers all day. If one person buys a property from us that has seen these threads, then we are moving in the right direction. We will keeping moving forward and help people price their properties to get them sold. We are committed to helping our sellers find buyers. In no way have I asked anyone of you to sign up with our company to sell your properties.

Now if a buyer finds a great deal on our website are you OK with a buyer buying a property advertised through our website that they believe is a good deal?

 

[jschmidt]

Again all comments and suggestions about how we can be our better company will be considered for future long term business sustainability. Thank you to those of you that understand what I'm trying to do right now. We want to hear from you!

I went to your web site and checked the resale’s for the Royal Resorts in Cancun.

When I looked at the maintenance fees, it was a dead give away what the age of the ad is. Some of them must be 5 to 6 years old. The resale asking prices may have been reasonable at the time the ads were placed.

My suggestion would be that for part of your Front-End-Fee (FEF) you contact the seller annually and revise their ad to reflect the new fees and asking price.

Is selling used cars a step up or down from selling used timeshare?

 

[wbtimesharer]

Hi Bill,

Thanks for the heads up we have corrected the issue. The property has 8000 points. It is a new ad and the information was not displayed on that property correctly.

Remember we are a only going by what the owner provides us so if an ad is lacking information it is hard for us to correct the issue. Sometimes owners don't know what they own and promise they will get back to us with corrected information, then fail to ever contact us back.

Again thank you for bringing this to our attention

VPR, thanks for having the courage or decency to come out and discuss the issues. Not many upfront fee sites will even talk about it one on one with people interested in their product.

I understand why there are upfront fees associated with timeshares sales as their seldom are contracts like in the real estate field. Not sure what a fair fee is but in the couple I have bought the fee was over 50% of the sales price. Then again, the selling price was only a couple of grand.

While the groups getting people to pay to take their timeshares and the upfront fee companies that list timeshares for sale both get hammered by Tuggers, they fill a niche that I hope eventually gets filled by a site like Tug.
I think the developers are more predatory as they generally take people for much much much more money.

Anyway, thanks for the discussion.

Bill

 

[rickandcindy23]

I am being as polite as I can here..... but I beg to disagree.

Bill,

How is strong-arming people into listing with an upfront fee company filling any niche? Scamming people is not a niche.

This company has a form that you fill out, if you want to sell your timeshare. They call you, then they call you again and again and again, then they basically tell you that you are stupid if you think that they should list your week for free.

When I wanted to sell my first Hawaii timeshare, before I found TUG, I went to a few of these sites after doing a google search. The form you fill out must be shared by many companies because I filled out two or three, then the calls started, from many different company names, according to my caller ID. Their sales spiel is very slick and promises were made, but in the end, I chose not to pay a listing fee for nothing, then I found Redweek and My Resort Network and realized that I needed no middleman to help me sell my timeshare.

When I got some of the calls, I was polite at first. The calls became frequent and more belligerent. I don't need that in my life. They wear you down, basically, until you list with them. "How do you expect to sell your timeshare yourself, what is your strategy?" "Internet marketing is the only way you are going to be able to sell your week, and we have the best search engine........" La dee dah Then the conversation gets downright mean. This is how they intimidate the older people.

Fill a niche, no way do they fill any niche. These companies, including the one that is talking up his service here on TUG, are scum. They are almost as bad as the postcard companies.

My opinion includes sites like Timeshares Only, even with all their advertising, because all they care about is getting that listing. They don't care whether they ever sell the timeshare. A look at the inventory for any resort would tell you that they are all about collecting listings, not matching buyers with sellers. They have hundreds of listings for Fairfield at Kingsgate, but when I tried to offer a price that was on the high end of the resale market, the salesman laughed at me and said he would never present such a low offer to a seller. Well, those people paid to have their listings on that site, so how hard up are they? Perhaps someone would have taken my offer, but the guy was too lazy to check.

Real estate brokers, which I am, ethically collect commission after the sale, not before. Don't even compare yourself to a real estate broker/ Realtor (as I am, because I belong to the National Association of Realtors, Colorado Association of Realtors and my local branch). I pay a lot of money to be a Realtor and have to take continuing education to keep my status. I deal only in residential real estate, but threads like this one are making me reconsider my specialty, because there is definitely a need for honesty in this business. You are not going to convince anyone here that your business model is anything but criminal. Taking money and providing zero service is not ethical.

 

[VPR]

Bill,

How is strong-arming people into listing with an upfront fee company filling any niche? Scamming people is not a niche.

This company has a form that you fill out, if you want to sell your timeshare. They call you, then they call you again and again and again, then they basically tell you that you are stupid if you think that they should list your week for free.

When I wanted to sell my first Hawaii timeshare, before I found TUG, I went to a few of these sites after doing a google search. The form you fill out must be shared by many companies because I filled out two or three, then the calls started, from many different company names, according to my caller ID. Their sales spiel is very slick and promises were made, but in the end, I chose not to pay a listing fee for nothing, then I found Redweek and My Resort Network and realized that I needed no middleman to help me sell my timeshare.

When I got some of the calls, I was polite at first. The calls became frequent and more belligerent. I don't need that in my life. They wear you down, basically, until you list with them. "How do you expect to sell your timeshare yourself, what is your strategy?" "Internet marketing is the only way you are going to be able to sell your week, and we have the best search engine........" La dee dah Then the conversation gets downright mean. This is how they intimidate the older people.

Fill a niche, no way do they fill any niche. These companies, including the one that is talking up his service here on TUG, are scum. They are almost as bad as the postcard companies.

My opinion includes sites like Timeshares Only, even with all their advertising, because all they care about is getting that listing. They don't care whether they ever sell the timeshare. A look at the inventory for any resort would tell you that they are all about collecting listings, not matching buyers with sellers. They have hundreds of listings for Fairfield at Kingsgate, but when I tried to offer a price that was on the high end of the resale market, the salesman laughed at me and said he would never present such a low offer to a seller. Well, those people paid to have their listings on that site, so how hard up are they? Perhaps someone would have taken my offer, but the guy was too lazy to check.

Real estate brokers, which I am, ethically collect commission after the sale, not before. Don't even compare yourself to a real estate broker/ Realtor (as I am, because I belong to the National Association of Realtors, Colorado Association of Realtors and my local branch). I pay a lot of money to be a Realtor and have to take continuing education to keep my status. I deal only in residential real estate, but threads like this one are making me reconsider my specialty, because there is definitely a need for honesty in this business. You are not going to convince anyone here that your business model is anything but criminal. Taking money and providing zero service is not ethical.

I feel you are very passionate about not paying upfront companies. Just to let you know I too have received advanced training, but do realize there is a niche in the industry for what we do. The niche isn't to pray on the elderly. There are plenty of people that have tried to sell there property through TUG redweek with no luck. Not every timeshare is going to sell, not even the ones listed on TUG. Now if we didn't sell properties on a regular bases, i would completely agree with all of your statements, but we do sell a lot of properties. I only wish every property on the market sold for what the owners wanted it too, but we don't live in a perfect world. I agree with our friends statement, there should be away to work together. I believe in our service, just like you don't believe, I believe we can all work together to make this industry better. Even if your against everything I stand for, I will keep moving forward in hopes that one day we will be able to help you one way or another, or maybe you can help me. I've dumped years of hard work into the business and want to keep moving forward. This is my passion! I know when I sent my first message across TUG that it was going to be an up hill battle, but I'm tough and don't want to go away. In fact if I just said well these guys like beating me up too much, so I should just sit back and do nothing, then I would be just like the guys you really hate. So I'm a glutton for punishment, bring it on, I want to help any way I can. I know my current business model is hated by tuggers, but it's not going away anytime soon. In fact we keep growing. Now one thing I'm going to say to defend myself is that a lot of companies don't care if properties sell, but we do. We've invested some serious dollars on programs that link buyer to seller. I would like you opinion on Timeshare Pulse. We thought this was an innovative idea, it's tied to our buyer database and easily managed on the back end. We have thousands of buyers signed up for it. It helps us move properties. Keep in mind it is constantly changing for the better!

 

[VPR]

VPR, thanks for having the courage or decency to come out and discuss the issues. Not many upfront fee sites will even talk about it one on one with people interested in their product.

I understand why there are upfront fees associated with timeshares sales as their seldom are contracts like in the real estate field. Not sure what a fair fee is but in the couple I have bought the fee was over 50% of the sales price. Then again, the selling price was only a couple of grand.

While the groups getting people to pay to take their timeshares and the upfront fee companies that list timeshares for sale both get hammered by Tuggers, they fill a niche that I hope eventually gets filled by a site like Tug.
I think the developers are more predatory as they generally take people for much much much more money.

Anyway, thanks for the discussion.

Bill

Bill,

I sincerely appreciate that response! I do agree it all starts at the resort level. Think about the person we deal with on a daily basis. They were told their Timeshare is easy to use, they can trade for any resort in the world. The they pay RCI, who is owned by Cendant, but that's a conversation for later. These people are paying out their nose, they feel they have been mislead from the get go. Then they call us to sell and we charge them, so to say the least they're not happy at all. Trust me I understand, but now all the garbage is on me and my crew, we have to tell them, listen I know the resort told you that you could rent you property out for x amount of dollars, but the truth is....Anyway we become the bad guys regardless. The trail of lies ends at us. So we take pride in what we do. Listen if the resort had resale programs we wouldn't even be having these conversations. I do know some resorts do provide a resale program, but the vast majority don't, why is that? Well, it's because it more profitable for the resort to sell their own weeks and not a current customers. So who's in the fault? All I can say is we do what we can and I'm sure a few of you are on the board of directors at a few resorts, I'm not trying to start fires, but it's true. The problem isn't upfront companies, it's the industry. Way bigger than little me!

 

[VPR]

People in this forum buy properties from FSBO sites regularly (just read other threads) and thank you for admiting you're advertising on this site (whether the advertising was for buyers or sellers).

hey no problem. Can we be friends now?

 

[rickandcindy23]

Still meant to be as polite as I can be............considering.......

No matter how hard you try to convince us, there is not a single person on TUG that would ever recommend paying upfront for a listings. I believe you are passionate about collecting peoples' money; that is your motivation--money.

Perhaps you are hoping that we will agree that your business is okay, because you have been kind in this forum, but I don't think any company that puts a simple listing on an obscure website somewhere is ever going to work to match a buyer with a seller. I guess you are saying your site is not obscure, but Timeshares Only always comes up on a search of "timeshare resales," and their site is just a bunch of listings with no effort to match buyer to seller, even when a legitimate offer of cash, with a deposit, is made. I did buy from one person there, Bobbie Dixon, and she was willing to take the time to make the deal happen. The poor seller had to come way down on the price and pay my $1,000 buyer fee, because my offered price was based on two different resales, made by TUGgers from private parties, not postcard companies, and I was not going to pay more for the week than that, so Bobbie made the deal happen. At least they are rid of their week, but the salesperson made the difference in that deal.

I doubt you care about the buyer, you care about the listing fee. That is why you charge a fee upfront. You make sure you get paid. After all, that is the most important thing to you, right?

I would bet your training is more in telemarketing than real estate. By the way, timeshare is real estate, as any state's real estate commission will tell you, and is governed by laws that protect the consumer. I believe most timeshare salespeople have real estate licenses, unless they are selling a points-only product. I can purchase a book at the Colorado Real Estate Commission that specifically addresses timeshare sales, and may make a trip downtown on Monday, out of curiosity, because threads like this one, which I consider to be an advertisement for our company, get me angry. I hope some government agency shuts companies like yours down. It seems to be the only way to protect people against fraud and deceit. You sell a product but don't deliver.

 

[fubarjam]

It's obvious this thread is not going to convince either side to change their thinking. I'll admit my amount of TS knowledge is limited compared to many on this board but this thread is based more on business concepts than actually Timesharing.

If a Timeshares Only or BuyATimeShare are spending any money on improving Organic Search, Paid Per Click, Directory Listings etc, they are in effect making an effort to sell their customers weeks. The way these companies are selling inventory is not via the traditional ways of real estate where you can show listings on a Saturday morning show, have open houses, or list in the local paper. It's an internet based business.

I've purchased a unit from TO and the seller did not counter my 30% off offer, that tells me they were satisfied and therefore so was I. I've found other buyers who have had similar experiences. I'll buy from TO again.

If I needed to get rid of a unit for any reason and I tried free sites or even listing with an agent with a back-end deal and it did not sell what would I do? I'll tell you, I'd type in Timeshare Resales in Google and whoever was at the top I'd go with even if I had to pay an upfront fee because I know they are at least getting viewers. Now if I own a bad week it may never sell and it's something I've got to live with. I've seen real estate agents do nothing to try and sell a place and it sold via word of mouth or a friend of a friend. For doing nothing, the seller has to pay 6% back-end deal which is not fair. This happens quite a bit, I've even witnessed where a realtor does nothing to sell the house and has the audacity to skip the closing.

Buyer must be aware and at the same time seller must be aware. If no one gave these companies business they'd be out of business. TO has a lot of inventory which allowed me (and many others) many options of weeks and resorts in the location.

The Real Estate Industry as a whole is dirty. Ever hear of predatory lenders giving deals to desperate people who should not ever be in a house or loan but the lender and/or the real estate agent convinced them it was a good deal? Some people are wise enough to realize a bad deal, others learn from their mistakes and chalk it up to life experience, while others continue to make mistakes.

I applaud the people responding to this thread from these up-front companies because they are taking a lot of abuse and sarcastic jabs. I'm a business owner and if I could come up with a way to give my service away for free or a back-end deal I would (as would most companies) unfortunately it often does not make business sense as you end up relying on several big fish to cover the sea of minnows which is also not fair to the big guys.

 

[rickandcindy23]

To all Newbies who may be reading this thread...PLEASE do not buy into the propaganda

No one on TUG has ever successfully sold a timeshare with an upfront fee company.

The sheer volume of available weeks, for any resort you can name, on Timeshares Only is proof that most inventory just sits there for years. The maintenance fees listed for some of the resorts we own are hundreds of dollars too low. They don't even update the information on their site.

Never, ever pay an upfront fee to list your timeshare with any of these companies. If you cannot sell your week on the legitimate resale sites, then your price is too high.

It does not matter what these guys say, there is risk involved in spending your hard-earned money on upfront fee sites. I used to feel differently, before I found TUG, but I know better now and want to warn you away from such advertisements from these companies.

I cannot believe this is continuing, when we all know the truth. All of the regular posters here do know what is right and true.

I purchased a week from Timeshares Only also and had an okay experience, but listing with them? No way would I ever, ever consider it. It is hard enough selling a week at a great price on the other sites for $50 a year. I write long descriptions of the properties I rent and sell, and I have sold only one of my timeshares--ONE, in two years. I actively talk with people, both by phone and online, fax my deed for proof of ownership, & give them my account number so they can perform their due diligence. I provide information you cannot get from any upfront-fee company about the resort, the area, the trade power, etc., because I own the week and used it myself, some for over 20 years, and I have a stake in the sale of the week. The upfront-fee company has no stake and no reason to provide me any service whatsoever.

Fubarjam: I applaud the people responding to this thread from these up-front companies because they are taking a lot of abuse and sarcastic jabs. I'm a business owner and if I could come up with a way to give my service away for free or a back-end deal I would (as would most companies) unfortunately it often does not make business sense as you end up relying on several big fish to cover the sea of minnows which is also not fair to the big guys.


Once Fubarjam has been around a while, I would bet his opinions will change. Unless there is a motive behind his post.

 

[Carl D]

Because there has been at least a few that admitted purchasing from these companies, than it must be that at least some ARE SELLING.

So obviously some are selling with the upfront fees and possibly inflated prices.

 

[Timeshare Von]

Because there has been at least a few that admitted purchasing from these companies, than it must be that at least some ARE SELLING.

So obviously some are selling with the upfront fees and possibly inflated prices.

Not necessarily. As I previously stated, the purchase I made was from a listing with one of these "up front" companies . . . but the price I paid was nothing close to what they had the listing at. In fact, for all intents and purposes, I didn't pay anything for it, only that year's MF's. My "seller" was just happy to be out from under it, after having had it listed for so long without any bites.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Because there has been at least a few that admitted purchasing from these companies, than it must be that at least some ARE SELLING.

So obviously some are selling with the upfront fees and possibly inflated prices.

Carl, I would say a very tiny percentage of the weeks sell. Look at the listings for any familiar property on Timeshares Only. The number of listings for Fairfield Kingsgate was astonishing. There aren't that many listings on all other venues combined. That shows that they collect listings. If you have one buyer for every 400 listings, just how are you helping those people? And not presenting my fair offer to any of the Kingsgate listings, that was completely wrong. These companies are not doing their jobs. An earnest money deposit should guarantee that my offer would be taken seriously.

Spence tried to offer on some Sunterras and was blown off completely. He was a serious buyer.

 

[Jya-Ning]

If I need to sell an unit

For anyone that happen to read this thread and thinking about this, the 1st thing you need do is figure out your own situation,
If you just bought from retail, ask yourselves have you thought the whole process through, if not, rescind. Deal will be there any day.

If you still owe mortgage, and need to sell, you have to pay-off the mortgage or do a short sale on it, which means you have to talk to the developer, so ask here around, prepare yourselves, talk to developer to see if you can get out, there is no reason to seek a front-end company (in fact any company) if it can not solve your problem anyway. You need to seek either a lawyer (bankrupcy), or talk to the devloper that sold you the week. There are situations where you can have chances that sell your TS, and get enough to cover your loan. Just ask here, or try to figure it out yourselves.

If I needed to get rid of a unit for any reason and I tried free sites or even listing with an agent with a back-end deal and it did not sell what would I do? I'll tell you, I'd type in Timeshare Resales in Google and whoever was at the top I'd go with even if I had to pay an upfront fee because I know they are at least getting viewers. Now if I own a bad week it may never sell and it's something I've got to live with. I've seen real estate agents do nothing to try and sell a place and it sold via word of mouth or a friend of a friend. For doing nothing, the seller has to pay 6% back-end deal which is not fair. This happens quite a bit, I've even witnessed where a realtor does nothing to sell the house and has the audacity to skip the closing.

If you believe your week has value to start with, at this moment, my suggestion is to read the http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44 first. Then figure out if you are buyer, what is the reasonable price you will pay. Read that thread to see what the advice on value a week.

Then ask yourselves this questions before you do any search,
does it worth to sell through a front-load listing company? Or through a back-load real estate agent. If you don't feel comfortable to sell it yourself to start with, remember, front-load listing company in theory provides only the service of listing, there is no way they will handle the sell stuff without being calling a real estate agent.

Now, say you have sell on the free site, with a back load agent, and no luck, I suggest you re-read the advice provide by tug to see if you made some mistake on your valuation, if you did not, then substract the fee you may pay ant front-load company and ask yourselves, does it make sense. If you find it still make sense, then look at eBay for couple of weeks as you are buyer. Find some ad you can understand and like, then add your resort picture, make sure you are selling a product for vacation, put it on eBay, list few closing companies that you feel comfortable with, thrown in some money you are willing to pay any front-load company as added incentive, make sure it is in the title, let it run for 2, 3 weeks, see what the market come out. If none take, you have no loss at all exception eBay listing fee, then you can relook at your options and see if you want to use a front-load company by doing a google search. When you do that, look at the result, see how many tug suggest site has in there, and how many you have used, and think what is the chance of it success.

As note that even if you use a back load commision based agent, (s)he could still do nothing. So think if you get to a front-load company, and there is no result, your only hope is there is enough viewer. My suggestion is before you pay the company, first ask what kind of saling rate they got, see if the number is audited, ask the cancel policy, what will be the penalty (or loss) when cancel the contract, and what is the procedure of doing so, just in case you have a friend's friend sudden jump out and decide to purchase a TS from you while there is no buyer from the listing site. Ask if the money is put in the escow and which escow. Unless the amount of money is very reasonable to you for advertise (call your local newspaper and see how much they charge to determine if it is reasonable or not, their cost to make them visible does not necessary means it should be your reasonable cost), and then make your own decision.

I believe they do have transactions, I believe if they want continue, they will try to get hit. On the other hand, since their business model is get money from the seller when listing, so I believe a lot of their ad cost is to attract seller, not buyer.

I don't have problem a company that working very hard, try to help other people, but have to charge big money in order to survive. On the other hand, if you have to pay, ask yourself is there a better alternative? After all, if a company has only one customer, they have to charge their whole cost to that customer, but that does not mean that customer can not find another company doing similar thing but charge much less and can get simliar result.

The Real Estate Industry as a whole is dirty. Ever hear of predatory lenders giving deals to desperate people who should not ever be in a house or loan but the lender and/or the real estate agent convinced them it was a good deal? Some people are wise enough to realize a bad deal, others learn from their mistakes and chalk it up to life experience, while others continue to make mistakes.

This is off topic, but I like to involve in things like that. Since I live in Maryland, I can tell you Maryland has put a few people into jail because of predatory lending. It also depends on the whole society, and at this moment, it will be a lot of actions even when others continue to make mistakes. Just because they will continue to make mistake, does not mean the government will think it is O.K. to let them pay continuousely.

hey no problem. Can we be friends now?

buyatimeshare or VRP, welcome to tug. Don't know, it is upto you. This is a open BBS, anyone may come and go. It really can not tell. If your whole purpose is to defend your business or to establish an image you are a honest person, and only work on this thread and leave the tug behind, it is your decision. If you decide to stick around, in the long run, people will know you in detail, then some may find you have similar view and become friends. Since you kind of disclosure who you are, what you doing, I believe majority of moderator will not mind you stay around.

Jya-Ning

 

[Jya-Ning]

*shrug...wish I knew what they figured out.

Have you talked to Steve Nelson? I believe last X'Mas he post some stuff on timeshareforums, and cost a traffic bust there (hint, it accidentally becomes one of the top search link related to xxx although it has nothing to do with that):hysterical: But I have no idea if there is other way, nor do I want to imply they did the same thing.

Jya-Ning

 

[johnmfaeth]

I'll post one last time. We have yet to hear the amount of upfront fee from this gentleman.

I'm sure it is in the $500 - $1000 range like the others who play in his sandbox.

$100 total will get your ad onto Tug2, Redweek, MyResortNetwork, and VacationTimeshareRentals.

All readers please know that I have been successful selling numerous units thia way.

Furthermore, I know many dozens of other timeshare owners who have sold this way. To this I will swear under oath of perjury to anyone who asks for that.

I have never met an owner who sold a single unit using a $500+ upfront fee company. This I will also swear to under oath of perjury.

I post this so that anyone who gets the "he sounds nice maybe I'll try him" impulse knows the facts.

PLEASE, TO ALL READERS - NEVER PAY AN UPFRONT FEE, YOU WILL NOT SELL AND ONLY BE THAT MUCH FURTHER IN THE HOLE.

 

[VPR]

It's obvious this thread is not going to convince either side to change their thinking. I'll admit my amount of TS knowledge is limited compared to many on this board but this thread is based more on business concepts than actually Timesharing.

If a Timeshares Only or BuyATimeShare are spending any money on improving Organic Search, Paid Per Click, Directory Listings etc, they are in effect making an effort to sell their customers weeks. The way these companies are selling inventory is not via the traditional ways of real estate where you can show listings on a Saturday morning show, have open houses, or list in the local paper. It's an internet based business.

I've purchased a unit from TO and the seller did not counter my 30% off offer, that tells me they were satisfied and therefore so was I. I've found other buyers who have had similar experiences. I'll buy from TO again.

If I needed to get rid of a unit for any reason and I tried free sites or even listing with an agent with a back-end deal and it did not sell what would I do? I'll tell you, I'd type in Timeshare Resales in Google and whoever was at the top I'd go with even if I had to pay an upfront fee because I know they are at least getting viewers. Now if I own a bad week it may never sell and it's something I've got to live with. I've seen real estate agents do nothing to try and sell a place and it sold via word of mouth or a friend of a friend. For doing nothing, the seller has to pay 6% back-end deal which is not fair. This happens quite a bit, I've even witnessed where a realtor does nothing to sell the house and has the audacity to skip the closing.

Buyer must be aware and at the same time seller must be aware. If no one gave these companies business they'd be out of business. TO has a lot of inventory which allowed me (and many others) many options of weeks and resorts in the location.

The Real Estate Industry as a whole is dirty. Ever hear of predatory lenders giving deals to desperate people who should not ever be in a house or loan but the lender and/or the real estate agent convinced them it was a good deal? Some people are wise enough to realize a bad deal, others learn from their mistakes and chalk it up to life experience, while others continue to make mistakes.

I applaud the people responding to this thread from these up-front companies because they are taking a lot of abuse and sarcastic jabs. I'm a business owner and if I could come up with a way to give my service away for free or a back-end deal I would (as would most companies) unfortunately it often does not make business sense as you end up relying on several big fish to cover the sea of minnows which is also not fair to the big guys.

Thank you again the problem starts with the industry! In my opinion, this will get a lot of you brokers upset, but why would someone want to pay a real estate commission when they can sell their house by themselves. I know the ladeda answers your going to give me, but I bought and sold many houses. I've never sold one through an agent. I think it's a waste of money and time. Now I can understand if you have to move real fast and can't be involved at all. I've sold one of my homes by advertising on our website. Then contacted a lawyer that owns a title company. That was easy! Now I have hired a friend as a buyer agent, because the seller pays him anyway. It's free to me. All he did was get what I want, so it made less work for me. For those of you that don't think I've received any formal education for real estate are mistaken. My personal opinion on those classes, they make them so easy a monkey could get through it. All it takes is a little time and effort. I'm not trying to discredit what you do at all, but it's all up for debate. These laws were written years ago and I can promise they will evolve. Timeshares are not typical real estate, although they are treated the same. I would like an agent to walk into a resort and show a room to a buyer. See what the resort has to say about that? These are all problems we can see. I'm just trying to work with what we have for solutions. I know some of you want us shut down, well that would upset thousands of people because now what are their options, utilizing the service of a broker. These broker are smart, they only take properties they know they can sell. What about the rest?

 

[VPR]

I'll post one last time. We have yet to hear the amount of upfront fee from this gentleman.

I'm sure it is in the $500 - $1000 range like the others who play in his sandbox.

$100 total will get your ad onto Tug2, Redweek, MyResortNetwork, and VacationTimeshareRentals.

All readers please know that I have been successful selling numerous units thia way.

Furthermore, I know many dozens of other timeshare owners who have sold this way. To this I will swear under oath of perjury to anyone who asks for that.

I have never met an owner who sold a single unit using a $500+ upfront fee company. This I will also swear to under oath of perjury.

I post this so that anyone who gets the "he sounds nice maybe I'll try him" impulse knows the facts.

PLEASE, TO ALL READERS - NEVER PAY AN UPFRONT FEE, YOU WILL NOT SELL AND ONLY BE THAT MUCH FURTHER IN THE HOLE.

I can show you examples of properties we sold if TUG doesn't mind!?

 

[Dave M]

I don't think we doubt that you sell an occasional timeshare. There have been reports here at TUG (including in this thread) of a few people having purchased timeshares from upfront-fee companies. So you don't have to "prove" that you have sold some.

However, as John suggests, the overwhelming experience here is that's not the norm. There have been well over 1,000 reports here over the past seven or eight years of people paying upfront fees (typically $199-$899) in an effort to sell or rent their timeshares. Yet in all of that time, there has not been a single confirmed report here of anyone actually selling or renting a timeshare as a direct result of paying such a fee.

Thus, even though there might be an occasional sale, we believe it's a complete waste of money for someone to pay a hefty fee to an upfront-fee company for a listing. There are too many low-cost listing alternatives that have a high rate of success. All of these sites are almost universally recommended by users at TUG, based on personal experiences. Conversely, there has never been an upfront-fee company recommended on these forums as a place to sell a timeshare, except, of course, for recommendations by those (such as you) who have a direct financial interest in such a company!

 

[VPR]

I don't think we doubt that you sell an occasional timeshare. There have been reports here at TUG (including in this thread) of a few people having purchased timeshares from upfront-fee companies. So you don't have to "prove" that you have sold some.

However, as John suggests, the overwhelming experience here is that's not the norm. There have been well over 1,000 reports here over the past seven or eight years of people paying upfront fees (typically $199-$899) in an effort to sell or rent their timeshares. Yet in all of that time, there has not been a single confirmed report here of anyone actually selling or renting a timeshare as a direct result of paying such a fee.

Thus, even though there might be an occasional sale, we believe it's a complete waste of money for someone to pay a hefty fee to an upfront-fee company for a listing. There are too many low-cost listing alternatives that have a high rate of success. All of these sites are almost universally recommended by users at TUG, based on personal experiences. Conversely, there has never been an upfront-fee company recommended on these forums as a place to sell a timeshare, except, of course, for recommendations by those (such as you) who have a direct financial interest in such a company!

occasional come on! yes we wish we could sell more, this is our hopes! Currently we have 8 in closing this week alone. Our average is 1 property per day, but we field questions all day long. I know any answer I give you it wont be enough. Hopefully with the help of our interactive programs such as Timeshare Pulse we will be able to sell more. This takes the human factor out of it and works internally with our database. Sorry for those of you who expect more from us! We are doing our best.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Two posters are now hammering Realtors?

How do you sell a house without listing with a Realtor, who does everything for zero cost until after the sale? How do you get your house on www.realtor.com and in the MLS, where thousands of other Realtors are searching for the perfect house for their clients? How do you get to see the houses that Realtors have listed?

A new poster on TUG is ignoring others' advice here, saying he/she would be happy to pay an upfront listing fee to sell a timeshare, because of the traffic, even though the experienced TUGgers are advising not to waste money. But Realtors are bad guys.

 

[rickandcindy23]

occasional come on! yes we wish we could sell more, this is our hopes! Currently we have 8 in closing this week alone. Our average is 1 property per day, but we field questions all day long. I know any answer I give you it wont be enough. Hopefully with the help of our interactive programs such as Timeshare Pulse we will be able to sell more. This takes the human factor out of it and works internally with our database. Sorry for those of you who expect more from us! We are doing our best.

Who is your closing company?

 

[fubarjam]

Wow having a "non-popular" opinion around here gets you hammered. I find more often than not those who buck the trends and go against the norm are the most successful.

I have no alternative motives here. I'm not in any business even close to the real estate industry. I'm a buyer of timeshares for personal use. Maybe in the future I'll be a buyer for rental purposes but I am not a buyer/seller or buyer/flipper. So I've been labeled a shill on private messages. This seems like a "nice" way to insult someone. If being a shill is looking favorably on a particular company or industry than I'm a shill.

I like TO because of the inventory they have for the specific weeks/resorts that I personally like. I was able to make 3-4 offers to buyers for a particular week span, unit type and resort with an offer I was comfortable paying. Therefore I'm for them and will buy in the future. This is strictly from a Buyer standpoint. Now from a seller standpoint things get complicated. (I've never sold a unit...I've just opened the floodgates, I know.)

I'm a mad researcher when it comes to buying things. I once researched for 2 days an alarm/clock radio. Most people go to a store and buy one, not me. I'll spend months researching larger purchases.

So if I ever had to sell a unit I'd setup a scorecard and compare all the companies who could sell my unit. I'd have to analyze their fees, market share, total inventory, how long a unit sits in inventory, what other similar weeks are going for etc. Most people would not do this, they see an ad and decide immediately. There are so many people like that in this world that I have a hard time worrying about their position and why they make the decisions they make. Many of you feel very strongly about up-front companies which I respect I just don't have the time or interested to be an "activist".

Now let's say I feel TO is going to take my money and not sell my unit I may not like them from a seller standpoint but from a buyer I already like them. I'll just decide to be a buyer only on TO and give my "selling" business to another company but I certainly can't bash TO as I'd be a hypocrite. If someone decides to sell on TO I'm happy because there's more inventory. More inventory gets you better content. Better content gets you higher search rankings. Higher search rankings get you better visibility. (If you can't already tell I'm a techie and I manage an e-commerce site for a mail-order catalog company). No alterior motive.

TUG is a community and I've learned a lot from you. You do a great job in educating both sellers and buyers and I've learned a lot from both sides. I'm certainly not advocating selling on TO or redweek or any other site as any seller should do research. Buyer and Seller should both be aware.

 

[Jya-Ning]

Actually, if I want to do a google search to see which site may get better chance to ad, I will do this sentence

"I want to buy a timeshare", or "I want to buy a Wyndham timeshare" for example. Try few selection like that, see what come out most of the time in any sentence you think a first time buyer will type in.

Jya-Ning