PCC's (Post Card Companies) are REALLY this bad

[John Cummings]

When you have cash in the bank and can buy whatever you want, pretty much, you don't care about credit scores. I understand why young people want to keep their credit score high (ours are high by accident).

We pay off our credit cards every month and pay cash for cars. Credit scores mean less and less as you age and get smarter and wiser.

That is not completely true. Credit scores are used by many businesses that affect everybody.

 

[timeos2]

The bottom line is that you do not believe that timeshare resorts should be compelled to take back deeds. I claim that the PCCs would gladly transfer them back to the resorts if they would take them cooperatively. They would skip the eBay process and transfer it directly to the resort.

Why not? It would be free. Why would a PCC be involved as every owner would have the same option? Also free. The system already has that option but not on "on demand" terms but with some rules.

I am telling you right now that any timeshare resort who approachs a PCC and proposes to take back all of their deeds upon transfer will no longer have a PCC problem. You can deflect blame as much as you want. But the fact remains that HOAs have done a poor job at making sure there is a viable resale market for their timeshares through poor management and maintenance fees that are higher than rental rates. The PCCs exist because of weak HOAs.

Since the majority magically "disappear" how would you approach them? They have pocketed the money and likely are operating with a new alias. Again not a theory but the facts the resorts deal with.

And you have long been a proponent of fees must be rental rates or less. There is no better way known to assure that isn't even a possibility when every week that an owner tires of has to be taken back, and paid for by the remaining owners. You can't have both ways.

 

[e.bram]

Timeos2:
How is a TS owner(non TUG reader) to know a priory of the nefarious intention of any operation.(PCC).
And if it came to it would I(or anybody using a PCC) be questioned about my TUG association, or more specifically if I had observed Timeos2 posts? You think the prosecutor would be aware of TUG and John Chase?

 

[rickandcindy23]

That is not completely true. Credit scores are used by many businesses that affect everybody.

We have our credit frozen and only un-froze it recently to get an Alaska Airlines credit card for that wonderful $99 companion ticket to Maui and Kauai.

For US, we are done with the mortgage refinancing, and we pay cash for cars. We collect frequent flyer miles using our credit cards for everything we buy. I will never walk away from any debt, even a timeshare special assessment, so I don't really worry about our credit scores.

Our kids worry, as they should, because they are still always refinancing and buying bigger and better houses. And our son is addicted to fancy cars and trucks, which is a sickness, in my opinion. Maybe he will be happy with his new BMW for a while.

 

[e.bram]

Quote by BocaBum

"You are misinterpreting data points you see and are assigning intent when simple incompetence explains the situation more than anything else. When a maintenance fee bill is due, it's because the PCC didn't start the transfer in time and they had major problems doing it due to incompetence. Their intent was always to transfer it, try to profit from a sale, or properly dispose of it. When they mess up, bad things happen. The exact same thing happened to Holiday Group. Their transfer process got out of control and their MF bills just piled up and they went belly up. Do you think Holiday Group was a fraud?

The bottom line is that you do not believe that timeshare resorts should be compelled to take back deeds. I claim that the PCCs would gladly transfer them back to the resorts if they would take them cooperatively. They would skip the eBay process and transfer it directly to the resort.

Even your hated Westgate pays to take back their timeshares from some PCCs. Yes, even them.

I am telling you right now that any timeshare resort who approachs a PCC and proposes to take back all of their deeds upon transfer will no longer have a PCC problem. You can deflect blame as much as you want. But the fact remains that HOAs have done a poor job at making sure there is a viable resale market for their timeshares through poor management and maintenance fees that are higher than rental rates. The PCCs exist because of weak HOAs."


Could not be said more eloquently. I would add to weak, inept, self dealing and corrupt.

 

[Ridewithme38]

Our kids worry, as they should, because they are still always refinancing and buying bigger and better houses. And our son is addicted to fancy cars and trucks, which is a sickness, in my opinion. Maybe he will be happy with his new BMW for a while.

Yup, that is the curse of my generation...We aren't as bad as some of the previous as we pay off our debts(I've NEVER been late on a bill and usually pay twice the Minimum)...But we carry those debts forever(I'm close to 10k just in credit cards, it'll never get paid off completely...it will just grow and shrink and grow and shrink as i spend and pay, spend and pay)!

I've seen the way some of my friends parents are drowning completely because they didn't watch their credit, upside down on mortgages, credit cards all maxed out, yet driving a 15yr old car...and it scares the heck out of me...While it maybe a bit sad, but from what i can tell as we move more away from physical cash and more towards debit and credit cards...we are going to be more and more defined by our credit scores....It's not just going to be a status symbol....it'll define your life


(Ok just read that again, it sounds a bit dark and paranoid, sorry, but it really does scare me, kind of a sobering fear)

 

[rickandcindy23]

HOA/ BOD's and management companies should always take back deeds. The board should require the next year's fees paid before the transfer back.

The HOA can give them away to the current owners, and if they are truly that hard to give away, they could tell current owners that if they find someone to take one of the inventory weeks, a legitimate person, they can get $100 off of their own maintenance fees for the following three years. If they find 3 new owners for these weeks, it's $300 off their next three years.

The owners would be asking everyone they know to take weeks, kind of like that Dish Network commercial, where the heads of the people are $50 bills. It's a gimmick, but it could work.

I believe we have one person out of 300 owners at Val Chatelle who is behind on his fees. ONE deadbeat out of 300 owners. The resort has low fees of $540 for ski weeks, $500 for summer, and $480 for blue. The blue weeks are still worth 18 TPU to RCI.

 

[Ridewithme38]

The HOA can give them away to the current owners, and if they are truly that hard to give away, they could tell current owners that if they find someone to take one of the inventory weeks, a legitimate person, they can get $100 off of their own maintenance fees for the following three years. If they find 3 new owners for these weeks, it's $300 off their next three years.

The owners would be asking everyone they know to take weeks, kind of like that Dish Network commercial, where the heads of the people are $50 bills. It's a gimmick, but it could work.

This is a great idea....

 

[John Cummings]

We have our credit frozen and only un-froze it recently to get an Alaska Airlines credit card for that wonderful $99 companion ticket to Maui and Kauai.

For US, we are done with the mortgage refinancing, and we pay cash for cars. We collect frequent flyer miles using our credit cards for everything we buy. I will never walk away from any debt, even a timeshare special assessment, so I don't really worry about our credit scores.

Our kids worry, as they should, because they are still always refinancing and buying bigger and better houses. And our son is addicted to fancy cars and trucks, which is a sickness, in my opinion. Maybe he will be happy with his new BMW for a while.

I am not saying that it necessarily affects you in particular. However it definitely can affect older people. Credit scores are not used just for obtaining credit anymore.

 

[BocaBum99]

HOA/ BOD's and management companies should always take back deeds. The board should require the next year's fees paid before the transfer back.

The HOA can give them away to the current owners, and if they are truly that hard to give away, they could tell current owners that if they find someone to take one of the inventory weeks, a legitimate person, they can get $100 off of their own maintenance fees for the following three years. If they find 3 new owners for these weeks, it's $300 off their next three years.

The owners would be asking everyone they know to take weeks, kind of like that Dish Network commercial, where the heads of the people are $50 bills. It's a gimmick, but it could work.

I believe we have one person out of 300 owners at Val Chatelle who is behind on his fees. ONE deadbeat out of 300 owners. The resort has low fees of $540 for ski weeks, $500 for summer, and $480 for blue. The blue weeks are still worth 18 TPU to RCI.

Cindy,

I completely agree with what your resort is doing. With those policies, there is a good chance that resort will survive.

 

[BocaBum99]

Why not? It would be free. Why would a PCC be involved as every owner would have the same option? Also free. The system already has that option but not on "on demand" terms but with some rules.

Too easy. Your thought process is exactly why you are not in the timeshare business. You would go belly up in less than a year by self imposed limitations and seeing a fantasy and thinking it is reality.

I outsource lots of things I can do for free simply because I don't have the time, nor desire to do it. I have a housekeeper who cleans my house. I have a landscaper who take care of my lawn, trees and plants. I have a book keeper, an attorney and an accountant. I can and have done all of these things. I just don't have the time or desire to do any of them. The same is true of people trying to get rid of their timeshares. HOAs should have the advantage. They have the owner list. They could easily out maneuver the PCCs if they simply tried.

So, the PCCs are organizations who profit by providing services to owners that the HOAs don't and should. It is their incompetence that leads to the existence of the PCCs.

Since the majority magically "disappear" how would you approach them? They have pocketed the money and likely are operating with a new alias. Again not a theory but the facts the resorts deal with.

Are you kidding? Simple. Anyone who has more than 2 units and transfers another one in is immediately contacted and made an offer. Or, did you not know that someone at the resort must be contacted upon every single transfer.

And you have long been a proponent of fees must be rental rates or less. There is no better way known to assure that isn't even a possibility when every week that an owner tires of has to be taken back, and paid for by the remaining owners. You can't have both ways.

What? Another soft ball? How easy. You do what Cindy suggests. In order for a transfer to happen, all back dues must be brought up to date. A resort transfer fee must be paid. If the unit is being deeded back, the next year's maintenance fees must be paid as well. That would give the HOA an entire year to giveaway the unit to another owner.

If the HOA cannot give them away, then perhaps the HOA should take back all deeds, let the back dues pile up and put to a vote the termination of the timeshare resort and to put it up for sale with proceeds less commissions going to the owners based on percentage ownership.

The bottom line is that if a resort has timeshares that are worthless, the HOA must do what it can to make them not worthless and create a market for resales. If there isn't one, the timeshare should be terminated, sold in an auction and proceeds should go to owners.

 

[am1]

I've got to admit this seems like the type of thing where the 'hunt' is much more satisfying then the 'kill'

Not at all. You just have to make an informed decision and hope for the best and learn some more with actual experience using timeshares.

There is too much to master in timeshares to know with absolute certainity what the best timeshare is for you.

Just remember a free timeshare with free closing may mean you have to pay even more to get rid of it.

At credit card interest rates you are best to pay it off every month rather than carry a balance. Everyone is capable of doing it.

 

[Ridewithme38]

edited...kinda a dumb question

 

[BocaBum99]

Can the BOD/HOA collect 52 weeks and just re-deed them as a full time ownership? or is there something usually in the paperwork to disallow that?

No, it cannot. Timeshares are condos with bylaws and deed restrictions and covenants. To convert them to whole condos requires a vote of the ownership according to the duly recorded condo docs.

 

[ampaholic]

Can anyone tell me IF the above bold part is accurate? HAVE Transfers been invalidated and returned to the original owner after the fact? Have any of you ever seen it happen, where a PCC was involved...or even when a PCC wasn't involved? i'd think once a sale is made and a deed signed, that would be it, the new owner was the new owner no matter what

Because if the bold part is accurate that changes my opinion on PCC's

In states where the deed is recorded (nearly all I believe) the name on the most recent recorded deed - is the owner of record. The HOA/BOD or anybody else can like it or lump it or fold it in five corners - that is the owner - end of discussion.

Of course RTU are a whole nother story:rofl:

If the RED week owners would pony up their fair share the poor HOA/BOD wouldn't be having trouble with the blue week owners going deadbeat.

It is BLUE week owners we are talking about right - anybody seen a worthless RED (really red) week?

 

[Ridewithme38]

If the RED week owners would pony up their fair share the poor HOA/BOD wouldn't be having trouble with the blue week owners going deadbeat.

It is BLUE week owners we are talking about right - anybody seen a worthless RED (really red) week?

When i first started looking i was looking in the poconos because it's the shortest possible drive for me...Places like TreeTop and Eagle Village would have fixed week 26's and even winter snow weeks that wouldn't sell no matter how low they went...after looking at some reviews online...it appears the HOA/BOD's weren't maintaining these places, and the rooms hadn't been improved since the 70's-80's

This was when i first started looking though...i don't know if these places have better value now

 

[e.bram]

BocaBum99:
I think the biggest problem converting unit by unit to whole ownership are the MFs. Even a modest MF of $600.00/wk(for a 1 br.) translates into over $31,000.00 /yr. It would still be worthless.

 

[am1]

I am sure the cost to run the resort is the same each week regardless of the season/value of the week.

Most likely the original red week owners paid more to but their resort and as sally would think build the resort.

Maybe it would be fair if non-paying blue week owners were subsidized by blue week owners and non-paying red week owners are subsidized by red week owners. Or even break it down week by week.

All that matters is resorts decide what they are/can going to do and follow that. If people do not like it they can dipose of their timeshare anyway legally possible.

Or maybe every red week comes with a blue week. Who would ever turn down 2 for 1?

The best way to avoid these problems is to establish a large reserve early on. The developers would not like this so it would have to happen after they leave.

The problem is started because people buy timeshares that they should not buy. Those same people have no problem paying thousands diposing of their mistake and do not care what happens after that.

Goverment rules or enforcement allow the HOA's to be taken advantage of by for-profit busineses.

In states where the deed is recorded (nearly all I believe) the name on the most recent recorded deed - is the owner of record. The HOA/BOD or anybody else can like it or lump it or fold it in five corners - that is the owner - end of discussion.

Of course RTU are a whole nother story:rofl:

If the RED week owners would pony up their fair share the poor HOA/BOD wouldn't be having trouble with the blue week owners going deadbeat.

It is BLUE week owners we are talking about right - anybody seen a worthless RED (really red) week?

 

[am1]

BocaBum99:
I think the biggest problem converting unit by unit to whole ownership are the MFs. Even a modest MF of $600.00/wk(for a 1 br.) translates into over $31,000.00 /yr. It would still be worthless.

The mfs would obviously come down as the expenses would be a lot less.

Would be great if it were possible and something hoas should look into. Even if some units were just turned into fractionals.

 

[e.bram]

I guess if I am busted for using a PCC , I will have to take the 5th instead of admitting I know about TUG.

 

[ampaholic]

I am sure the cost to run the resort is the same each week regardless of the season/value of the week.

Cost the same to put a sewer in front of a million dollar house as it does a 90 grand house - so how come the property taxes aren't the same?

Most likely the original red week owners paid more to but their resort and as sally would think build the resort.

Not sure I follow what you mean here - who is sally?

Maybe it would be fair if non-paying blue week owners were subsidized by blue week owners and non-paying red week owners are subsidized by red week owners. Or even break it down week by week.

What non-paying red week owners - you miss my point - the blue week owner get tired of carrying the red week owners is part of the problem.

Or maybe every red week comes with a blue week. Who would ever turn down 2 for 1?

Wapato Point on Lake Chelan does that: 1 red, 1 white, 1 blue constitute an interval - AND OMG they rotate - good damn luck selling on of those albatross's :hysterical:

The best way to avoid these problems is to establish a large reserve early on. The developers would not like this so it would have to happen after they leave.

The problem is started because people buy timeshares that they should not buy. Those same people have no problem paying thousands diposing of their mistake and do not care what happens after that.

Goverment rules or enforcement allow the HOA's to be taken advantage of by for-profit busineses.

Check, check and che ..... screech -- HOA's allow HOA's to be taken advantage of -- you can't blame the government for everything

 

[AwayWeGo]

sally13

Not sure I follow what you mean here - who is sally?

Click here for the Wisdom Of Big City Sally.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[DeniseM]

Oh Alan, Alan, Alan..... :ignore:

 

[am1]

I meant

"Most likely the original red week owners paid more to buy their weekt and as sally would think build the resort. "

Sally was a poster on here months back who was happy to pay developer prices as that is what pays to build the resort.

Cities are out to extract as much tax as possible and go by value of the property. HOA's go by paying for use.

It is the red week owners that pay for the blue week owners who do not pay. Red weeks may be more valuable to own but they only own 1/52ish of the real estate. I just mentioned this to show that HOA's should do what they want/can.

If someone wants to own a red week at a great resort make them own a blue week as well.

Maybe goverments should not allow llcs and people to so easily walk away from debts.

 

[ampaholic]

I meant

"Most likely the original red week owners paid more to buy their weekt and as sally would think build the resort. "

Sally was a poster on here months back who was happy to pay developer prices as that is what pays to build the resort.

Now I follow

Maybe goverments should not allow llcs and people to so easily walk away from debts.

Actually if that read

Maybe goverments should not allow llcs

I would agree.