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PIC details

Discussion in 'Wyndham Vacation Resorts' started by TheHolleys87, Dec 1, 2019.

  1. TheHolleys87

    TheHolleys87 TUG Member

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    I understand the concept of PICs but have questions about the details. I don’t own Wyndham so don’t have access to the owners’ manual and couldn’t find the posts quoting the manual via a search here.

    My question is what commitment does the owner make regarding depositing the TS that are enrolled as PICs? Is the owner still free to deposit the weeks into other systems such as II?

    I now have full control of two deeded Kona Coast Resort winter weeks that may (or may not) have been enrolled as PICs a few years ago when my dad and brother converted a Kauai Beach Villas week to points and (of course) made an additional developer purchase. Neither of them has any knowledge of PIC, nor does the available paperwork that I can access mention it. All they know is that they ended up with a Wyndham points account, an RCI points account and an RCI weeks account where the Kona Coast weeks have been deposited the last few years if not being used by us. My brother now owns the Wyndham and RCI points TSs separate from the Kona Coast weeks. I’m considering buying an II membership in hopes of trading into Marriott and other II systems.

    TIA!
     
  2. ecwinch

    ecwinch Moderator

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    You do not make any commitment to deposit the weeks. It is entirely optional. I have 2 PIC weeks and have never deposited them (the process is a little complicated to do so).

    If you want a good entree into II, I would recommend buying a small Worldmark membership. A small points membership can go a long ways with II, and it is a points based system. One that is more flexible than Club Wyndham - from the perspective that you can rent in points from other owners (rather than buying pts) and they have a variety of cash booking options if want to use their resorts directly.

    Plus reservations made within 59 days of check-in are made for a flat rate 4000k pts per reservation - regardless of unit size. Which when you price out the points + related fees - can come out to about $700 per II week.

    II membership thru Club Wyndham is not a option. But with WM it is.
     
  3. Eric B

    Eric B TUG Member

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    Bottom line up front: the owner of a TS that is enrolled in the PIC Plus program is free to deposit the week into any other system it trades in, use it, or rent it - there is no obligation to do anything accept continue to own it and pay the MFs. It is important to maintain some documentation that someone whose name is on the Wyndham account be an owner of the TS because it is subject to verification.

    Resort Directory for 2018-2019 is here: https://www.wyndhaminteractivesaleshub.com/club-wyndham/CW_Directory.pdf. Discussion on PICs is on pp. 292-293. I copied and pasted the part on PIC Plus; there is also PIC Express, but it isn't as beneficial. The discussion doesn't mention it, but the cost for a PIC contract is the same program fee as for points you own with Wyndham (i.e., $0.60 per thousand points per year for Wyndham Plus membership); the $89 fee is if you deposit the week to use the points in Wyndham.

    Personal Interval Choice (PIC) Plus Program

    Personal Interval Choice (PIC) Plus provides you the opportunity to enroll quali ed non-Wyndham timeshare weeks a liated with RCI® and make them a part of the CLUB WYNDHAM Plus program. You may enroll a maximum of 2 weeks in the PIC Plus program. More information about enrollment is available by visiting a Member Services representative at your nearest CLUB WYNDHAM resort.

    Once you enroll your non-Wyndham week in PIC Plus, your week will be allocated a point value based on the unit size. Please refer to the PIC Plus Allocations chart below. The point value of your enrolled week(s) counts toward CLUB WYNDHAM Plus VIP eligibility.

    Each year you can choose how you would like to use your PICPlus week(s):

    • Vacation at your non-CLUB WYNDHAM “home” resort • Exchange it with RCI
    • Exchange it for CLUB WYNDHAM Plus points

    Important Information

    PIC Plus Allocations

    UNIT SIZE POINT VALUE/POINTS CREDITED TOWARD VIP

    Studio 70,000

    1 Bedroom 104,000

    2 Bedroom 154,000

    3 Bedroom or more 254,000

    PIC Plus exchange fee is $89.


    You must be current in both your assessment fees and your yearly maintenance fees in order to request an exchange.

    An $89 exchange fee is required to complete the PIC Plus exchange.

    You must call RCI at least 9 months prior to the scheduled start date of your week and make an exchange request. Once accepted RCI will send you a Deposit Acknowledgment card. You may also request RCI’s auto deposit option and sign the appropriate documents to get enrolled for annual renewal.

    Once you receive the Deposit Acknowledgment card from RCI, call your Vacation Planning Center at 800-251-8736 to complete the exchange. You will select whether you want to receive the points in the current Use Year or the following Use Year, and the appropriate amount of points will be deposited into your CLUB WYNDHAM Plus account. These points will expire at the end of the selected Use Year.

    Once points are deposited into your account, the number of points and bene ts you have available for CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Standard and Express Reservations, Worldwide External Exchange, PlusPartners, Charitable Gift and WYNDHAM Club Pass will be increased by the amount of points associated with your PIC Plus contract for the Use Year chosen.

    In order to maintain the accuracy of your account, your non-Wyndham weeks enrolled in PIC Plus will be subject to an annual verification process. If your week no longer meets the eligibility requirements for enrollment, it will be removed from the PIC Plus program.

    PIC Plus contracts are nontransferable.

    Eligibility Requirements: Membership in the PIC Plus Program is available with a new vacation ownership purchase from Wyndham Vacation Resorts or to CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Members who pay the PIC Plus Membership Enrollment Fee. In order to be eligible, non-Wyndham week(s) must be: (1) affiliated with RCI and (2) not currently participating in a points-based program, including RCI Points. Members will be responsible for maintenance fees on their non- Wyndham week(s).
     
  4. Eric B

    Eric B TUG Member

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    Actual, Eric, OP already has control of two Kona Coast Resort winter weeks that have been used for RCI deposits. Kona Coast is a dual-affiliated resort that is premier in II. All OP has to do to use II is get a membership. With a premier Hawaii week, OP might be able to see Marriotts, the winter season seems decent based on the TDI on II.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. ecwinch

    ecwinch Moderator

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    Understood. And I dont know much about Kona Coast. But if it is like most Hawaiian resorts, the cost/benefit ratio would likely be more favorable using something else to exchange via II.
     
  6. Eric B

    Eric B TUG Member

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    Probably right about that. I use a Colonies at Williamsburg 4 BR LO summer week that I got resale; costs me about $450 per side for MF & property taxes to use in II as a 2 BR premier resort week. I've been thinking about picking up some WorldMark credits since I saw three contracts on Timeshare Nation a couple of weeks ago (total of 20k), but someone else got them before me. I've got the Colonies 4 BR enrolled as a PIC week, so can use it there, too, if I want to. No idea what Kona Coast costs for MF, but some of the Wyndham ones in Kauai work really well as inexpensive points if you own there, so I can't really judge how OP's current ones would work as traders. In any case, OP already owns them and the MF would be sunk costs since the family is using them for VIP status w/Wyndham.

    Eric
     
  7. Richelle

    Richelle TUG Member

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    Only weeks that can be deposited in RCI are eligible for PIC. You’re not required to exchange anything. You can use the week as is or deposit into RCI. If you deposit it in II, you cannot exchange it with Wyndham for points. If the week is in a points program, it’s only eligible for PIC express which is only good for five years and you cannot use those points for bookings.

    They are more diligent these days on verifying you actually own the week. I would imagine (but have no proof) that if you don’t exchange for awhile or never exchange, it might raise a red flag and give them a reason to look at your account more carefully. It is not that difficult to determine who has not exchanged for X amount of years. A simple database query with parameters defined to look at the last exchange date would do it very easily. If they look more closely at your account, They will just verify that you own the week and that it’s enrolled in the correct program. If you had a week in Vacation Villages that you enrolled into PIC Plus, and later that you converted to RCI points, they might void the contract or put it in express. If it’s in RCI points, it’s not eligible for PIC express.
     
  8. TheHolleys87

    TheHolleys87 TUG Member

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    Thank you all, this is very helpful! Our first opportunity to reserve our 2021-22 weeks at Kona Coast comes up soon, although I know I don’t have to deposit them immediately. But I’m so glad to know I could subscribe to II and deposit there if I want.
     
  9. basham

    basham TUG Member

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    Here's another question to do with PIC's.

    Reading the directory for PIC requirements no mention is made of the classification of the week with RCI. i.e. blue, white or red. In addition to the resort being eligible to PIC is there a demand component that must be met also or can any week at accepted resorts be PIC'ed.?
     
  10. Eric B

    Eric B TUG Member

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    There isn't anything in the current directory, but that doesn't mean that they can't change the rules. Both of my PICs are using fairly high demand weeks in order to avoid getting into a situation where they change things and toss them out.
     
  11. TheHolleys87

    TheHolleys87 TUG Member

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    @Eric B, I forgot to thank you for this! It was just a few months ago that I found out we own two "winter" weeks, which includes week 51 of one year through week 16 of the next. We can reserve up to 24 months out, and I've been trying to decide whether to reserve weeks 51 and 52 of 2021 or wait for a bit in case DH and I decide we want to use one week ourselves in early 2021 when airfare won't be so high. I wasn't sure whether I was getting an accurate count of potential TPUs with the RCI calculator, but this TDI chart is so much clearer - now I know I'll do better by reserving 51 and 52 and then depositing them in either RCI or II and using them to exchange into Hawaii if we decide to go. I'd rather go to Kauai the next time instead of the BI anyway!
     
    Eric B likes this.
  12. SNA27

    SNA27 TUG Member

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    Club Wyndham takes in PIC Plus weeks and allows the point equivalent for those weeks to count towards the VIP Status. If those weeks are not required to be turned over to Club Wyndham in return for points, what's in it for Wyndham? Just the program fees?

    I don't ever plan to use my Frazer Colorado weeks and plan to convert them to Wyndham points every year paying the $89. But I am just curious as to why the option not to convert weeks into points even exists.

    Why would a owner, having enrolled in PIC Plus, choose not to convert? Is that because the weeks they own are SUPER HOT and highly desirable that they are worth more than the points they yield? If so, what does Wyndham get out of this?
     
  13. Eric B

    Eric B TUG Member

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    An owner might just be using the PIC contracts to obtain VIP status inexpensively. In the case of OP, the family as a unit is benefiting from the VIP status with Wyndham for the folks that use it, while OP gets to use the weeks however desired. The Wyndham side of the family pays the program fee of $.60 per thousand points and gets the potential upgrades and discounts, which can be beneficial depending on how one uses Wyndham. Wyndham gets the fees. OP gets to use the weeks, exchange them in RCI or II, or deposit in Wyndham and use there. Potentially mutually beneficial all around.

    Personally, I have a dual-affiliated RCI/II premier resort enrolled as a PIC to get VIPG efficiently (two 4 BR PICs = 508,000 points towards VIP status), but am using it to trade into nice resorts in II that maximize my return on my vacation dollar. It winds up costing a little more in Wyndham fees, but I avoid exchange fees when I use my Wyndham points and the I like the unlimited housekeeping, reservation transactions, the upgrade possibilities and the discounts. I did the math and it works for me; took a while learning from experts here on TUG and in the school of hard knocks, but I'm happy with my situation. It's a good balance of flexibility and efficiency that I can use through retirement. Might not work for everyone, though.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
  14. Richelle

    Richelle TUG Member

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    No but it wouldn’t hurt to get a high demand week at a Gold crown resort. If they decide to bring back the season component, those enrolled would likely be grandfathered. People who enrolled their PICs before 2005 can still enroll as many PICs as they want. Getting a high demand week means greater TPU. If there is a year they don’t want to PIC, they can use the trading power to book something else. More TPU=More options. Getting a Gold crown resorts mean you don’t own at a dump. No one wants to own a dump.
     
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  15. cbyrne1174

    cbyrne1174 TUG Member

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    To add onto what Eric said about WorldMark, Worldmark points are a really good value when trading with II. If you buy 20,000 resale points, the maintenance fees for 10,000 points (a 2 bedroom II trade) costs about $740 and you can exchange into Marriott. The average maintenance on a 2 bedroom in the Marriott system is about $1400. If you want to stay in Marriotts, you are better off buying Worldmark and trading into the Marriotts that are deposited. If the Marriott you want never is available in II, then you can just rent it whenever you want to go there.

    I don't know how the trade value is for the Hawaiian TS, but Worldmark has the lowest maintenance and highest trading power. Not all deposits are equal in II.
     
  16. cbyrne1174

    cbyrne1174 TUG Member

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    To add onto what Eric said about WorldMark, Worldmark points are a really good value when trading with II. If you buy 20,000 resale points, the maintenance fees for 10,000 points (a 2 bedroom II trade) costs about $740 and you can exchange into Marriott. The average maintenance on a 2 bedroom in the Marriott system is about $1400. If you want to stay in Marriotts, you are better off buying Worldmark and trading into the Marriotts that are deposited. If the Marriott you want never is available in II, then you can just rent it whenever you want to go there.

    I don't know how the trade value is for the Hawaiian TS, but Worldmark has the lowest maintenance and highest trading power. Not all deposits are equal in II.
     
  17. TheHolleys87

    TheHolleys87 TUG Member

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    Thanks for the information, but we’re not in the market for any more TS. In addition to the two deeded Hawaii weeks, DH and I own DVC points as well as a few Shell points in the Hawaii club. We’re set - in fact our travel schedule for 2020 is full already with six TS vacations!

    I'm really glad I posted this question - everyone has been very helpful!
     

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