POA for Sumday concern

[Egret1986]

I have no problem with signing a poa. It should show what it is for. No where in it’s listing did it say it would not state the property. I have signed poa before, it always stated the exact property. Just because it is their policy to not state the property in their poa it doesn’t mean it is right. I asked for it to be stated on the document or to cancel the deal. It is irrelevant how great a reputation of a company is, when you sign a legal document all information should be clearly stated.

I agree with you. One's own comfort level should dictate how one proceeds, not the opinions of forum participants. You asked for thoughts. That's what folks are doing....giving their thoughts on the subject.

I guess having just dealt with a similar situation, regarding the sale of a timeshare, that it really hits home for me. I doubt anyone out there that runs some sort of business (no matter how small) has policies and procedures. But you soon find there is a minute few that will come through your business and expect you to change things up for them. Right, wrong or otherwise is in the eye of the beholder. It's certainly not criminal at this stage.

Since you decided to post about this on a public forum, where their representative also posts; it would behoove them not to cave in for one client if this policy and procedure has been working for them. It's the law of averages that folks will come through requesting or sometimes demanding a change in "the business's way of doing things."

Think of the potential backlash to their POA policy and procedures if you come back on TUG and post a success in getting them to "back off". I can guarantee you that other guests and members will happen along and ask for the "Panina Special." If you bend your policy and it's announced to the world, then you will be setting yourself up for future problems.

Sumday has done nothing wrong. You have changed your mind due to their policy. It isn't thoroughly described, only merely noted in their listing. Sumday appears to be a business that attempts to maintain a good reputation. Certainly, if reputation has no bearing on this transaction, then "on to the next deal!"

 

[rickandcindy23]

Sumday advertised a week I wanted with free usage, and it didn't have usage, and their contract says they cannot guarantee usage. I wouldn't have bought it without free usage. They had no right to advertise it that way, and for that reason, they no longer get any of my business. That is not just once, it was twice, pretty much at the same time, so I didn't have the chance to back out of the other one before I signed the stupid contract. I never recommend them anymore. They used to be a quaint company that had some eBay listings. Now it's a much bigger company and quite a few more errors (but that is my opinion).

 

[Panina]

I agree with you. One's own comfort level should dictate how one proceeds, not the opinions of forum participants. You asked for thoughts. That's what folks are doing....giving their thoughts on the subject.

I guess having just dealt with a similar situation, regarding the sale of a timeshare, that it really hits home for me. I doubt anyone out there that runs some sort of business (no matter how small) has policies and procedures. But you soon find there is a minute few that will come through your business and expect you to change things up for them. Right, wrong or otherwise is in the eye of the beholder. It's certainly not criminal at this stage.

Since you decided to post about this on a public forum, where their representative also posts; it would behoove them not to cave in for one client if this policy and procedure has been working for them. It's the law of averages that folks will come through requesting or sometimes demanding a change in "the business's way of doing things."

Think of the potential backlash to their POA policy and procedures if you come back on TUG and post a success in getting them to "back off". I can guarantee you that other guests and members will happen along and ask for the "Panina Special." If you bend your policy and it's announced to the world, then you will be setting yourself up for future problems.

Sumday has done nothing wrong. You have changed your mind due to their policy. It isn't thoroughly described, only merely noted in their listing. Sumday appears to be a business that attempts to maintain a good reputation. Certainly, if reputation has no bearing on this transaction, then "on to the next deal!"

I have done many timeshare transactions. Never have I been asked to sign an open end document. Even when I give them away everything is detailed for the new owner. I have a good reputation but would never expect anyone to sign something that leaves out information.

I did ask for opinions and appreciate all of them but realized as the responses came in I am not comfortable with the document as is.

I do not regret posting my concerns. That is what Tug is about. Maybe this will improve their procedure, maybe not. Nothing changes unless one brings it up.

I can move on, waiting for their response.

 

[bizaro86]

Sumday advertised a week I wanted with free usage, and it didn't have usage, and their contract says they cannot guarantee usage. I wouldn't have bought it without free usage. They had no right to advertise it that way, and for that reason, they no longer get any of my business. That is not just once, it was twice, pretty much at the same time, so I didn't have the chance to back out of the other one before I signed the stupid contract. I never recommend them anymore. They used to be a quaint company that had some eBay listings. Now it's a much bigger company and quite a few more errors (but that is my opinion).

Was the free use not available at all, or did it take too long to close so the ability to book the free use passed?

Those seem quite different to me, as one is advertising something not available, while one is closing too slow, which they warn about.

I've bought a few things with free use from them, and would have been very upset not to get it, so I get where you're coming from.

 

[Egret1986]

Agree 100%. There is no way I would sign a blanket POA with a timeshare salesman. Stick to your guns; they are just being lazy.

And I can't believe the number of people rationalizing this.

Sue

I'm not one that is rationalizing this. Panina has come to the conclusion that she is not comfortable with signing a blank POA document. She should definitely cancel the transaction with that mindset. What I would do or Joe would do is of no consequence.

She will find that next great deal that will have the closing and transfer terms that make her happy. Buying a much desired timeshare at a resale rate should be a happy time! I hope it works out easily and quickly for all concerned. Don't go against your gut instinct. You're the one that would have to live with the consequences.

 

[bogey21]

And I can't believe the number of people rationalizing this.

I'm not rationalizing anything. It just seems like a lot of angst for what I assume is a small dollar TS purchase from a company with a good reputation....

George

 

[Panina]

Sumday has included my property specifics on my POA. Thank you Sumday. You obviously cared enough about making me your customer comfortable.

Thank you again everyone. I did appreciate the different views.

 

[DaveNV]

Sumday has included my property specifics on my POA. Thank you Sumday. You obviously cared enough about making me your customer comfortable.

Thank you again everyone. I did appreciate the different views.

That's good to hear. As I said previously, you have to do what makes you comfortable. I'm glad they stepped up, and that you will have your purchase.

Dave

 

[WinniWoman]

Sumday has included my property specifics on my POA. Thank you Sumday. You obviously cared enough about making me your customer comfortable.

Thank you again everyone. I did appreciate the different views.

Great. Glad you stuck to your guns. You were right to request to have the correct information indicated on documents you are signing.

 

[chapjim]

I still don't understand where people get the idea that Sumday's POA is a blanket POA (known as a general power of attorney). Sumday's POA is very limited. Read it again.

A general POA is something you'd give your spouse (if you trusted him/her!) while you were deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan. It allows the attorney-in-fact to do anything you could do yourself. Sumday's POA is nothing like that at all, BY ITS OWN TERMS.

I'm happy Panina is able to proceed with her transaction but this thread has been a lot of kerfuffle about not much of anything. Just my opinion.

 

[PrairieGirl]

Jim, your first analysis of the document shed a great deal of light on the situation and specified the "limitation" on the POA. I thank you for sharing your expertise (and unlike the rest of us, you DO have credentials in this area!!). However, since we never did get a definition of what "facilitate documents" actually includes there might still have been some unease.

 

[bogey21]

I'm happy Panina is able to proceed with her transaction but this thread has been a lot of kerfuffle about not much of anything. Just my opinion.

Agree. When buying and selling inexpensive TS Weeks (somewhere between 25 and 35 over the years) I pretty much just went with the flow. I never requested an estoppel for example and pretty much did what was asked of me to facilitate the transaction. Never once did I have a problem. One time I even accepted 36 monthly payments when I sold my Heritage Club Week based on the (Independent HHI) broker who put together the deal vouching for the Purchaser who incidentally never was late on a payment...

George

 

[chapjim]

Jim, your first analysis of the document shed a great deal of light on the situation and specified the "limitation" on the POA. I thank you for sharing your expertise (and unlike the rest of us, you DO have credentials in this area!!). However, since we never did get a definition of what "facilitate documents" actually includes there might still have been some unease.

I am still of the opinion that "facilitate documents" is essentially the same as "correct scrivener's errors," which was the wording in Sumday's previous POA. If so, redrafting the standard POA for such a minor change indicates that Sumday adheres closely to the limits in its limited power of attorney and reflects highly on Sumday's integrity.

My guess is Sumday had a document that couldn't be corrected under the "scrivener's errors" standard and made a tweak so they weren't stymied again. Again, just a guess. I think a Sumday rep has appeared on TUG from time to time. Maybe they can help us understand what it's all about.

 

[dioxide45]

I am still of the opinion that "facilitate documents" is essentially the same as "correct scrivener's errors," which was the wording in Sumday's previous POA. If so, redrafting the standard POA for such a minor change indicates that Sumday adheres closely to the limits in its limited power of attorney and reflects highly on Sumday's integrity.

My guess is Sumday had a document that couldn't be corrected under the "scrivener's errors" standard and made a tweak so they weren't stymied again. Again, just a guess. I think a Sumday rep has appeared on TUG from time to time. Maybe they can help us understand what it's all about.

It seems that the main problem was that the original POA wasn't limited to only the property that was part of the transaction. Without the POA referencing the property being bought or sold, they could technically use it for any property. A POA used for real estate transactions in this type of situation should always list the real estate that it could apply to. I see no issue with why the OP balked at signing their "blank" POA and also glad to see that Sumday obliged. Perhaps they should consider this for all their POAs. I certainly wouldn't sign one that didn't list the property for which it could be used to correct errors.

 

[mdurette]

I have no problem with signing a poa. It should show what it is for. No where in it’s listing did it say it would not state the property. I have signed poa before, it always stated the exact property. Just because it is their policy to not state the property in their poa it doesn’t mean it is right. I asked for it to be stated on the document or to cancel the deal. It is irrelevant how great a reputation of a company is, when you sign a legal document all information should be clearly stated.

I agree with you. Personally I wouldn't sign a POA over to an unknown that wasn't specific to a transaction. Will they turn your business away if you say no, I will only sign one that is specific to the transaction? That is what I would try first. Tell them no and see what happens.

 

[chapjim]

It seems that the main problem was that the original POA wasn't limited to only the property that was part of the transaction. Without the POA referencing the property being bought or sold, they could technically use it for any property. A POA used for real estate transactions in this type of situation should always list the real estate that it could apply to. I see no issue with why the OP balked at signing their "blank" POA and also glad to see that Sumday obliged. Perhaps they should consider this for all their POAs. I certainly wouldn't sign one that didn't list the property for which it could be used to correct errors.

Sumday can correct a million documents! Who cares? You still have to sign the one document for it to be effective.

That's why I say this is a lot about nothing. Sumday is not using the POA to sign documents on your behalf, only to be sure the document is correct.

Sumday obliged Panina because they wanted to complete a transaction, not because there was anything legally deficient with their standard form POA.

 

[dioxide45]

Sumday can correct a million documents! Who cares? You still have to sign the one document for it to be effective.

That's why I say this is a lot about nothing. Sumday is not using the POA to sign documents on your behalf, only to be sure the document is correct.

Sumday obliged Panina because they wanted to complete a transaction, not because there was anything legally deficient with their standard form POA.

While not legally deficient, it is a POA for a real estate transaction and as such should reference the property that it applies to. This is pretty standard for POAs that are used for real estate transactions. I agree that Sumday isn't out there using this to sign over a bunch of deeds illegally. However, that doesn't say they shouldn't be using standard practice and referencing the property on a POA that is used for a real estate transaction.

 

[Panina]

While not legally deficient, it is a POA for a real estate transaction and as such should reference the property that it applies to. This is pretty standard for POAs that are used for real estate transactions. I agree that Sumday isn't out there using this to sign over a bunch of deeds illegally. However, that doesn't say they shouldn't be using standard practice and referencing the property on a POA that is used for a real estate transaction.

I just want to say I believe Sumday is a good company and their current workers are good too. That wasn’t my issue.

Everything dioxide45 said I agree with. Also a company can sell their business or hire new workers so just because everything was good in the past and in the present, it can change in the future.

It is always good to protect yourself as a consumer, minimizing the potential for future problems even if the risk seems non existent.

 

[JeffBrown]

My guess is Sumday had a document that couldn't be corrected under the "scrivener's errors" standard and made a tweak so they weren't stymied again. Again, just a guess. I think a Sumday rep has appeared on TUG from time to time. Maybe they can help us understand what it's all about.

Above quote is 100% correct.

As your Sumday representative, I fully appreciate ALL of your concerns and I hate to say this but you've truthfully made a mountain out of a mole hill. What these POA's allow us to do is deliver a purchase to you in a more timely manner and ensure after initial signings that there are no delays. It is not company policy that we don't change them and I'm sorry you received that response, I will remedy that for future transactions. But, it technically never needs to be changed as it is a limited power of attorney and it is already limited to that transaction (cannot be used for other purchases), it is already limited by time and it is also already limited in the type of items that could be corrected. If I have to pay an attorney to change the POA by adding specifics on every purchase it completely takes away from the speed and cost effectiveness that allows us to sell the timeshares at these prices and in a timely manner. So, our attorney prepared that limited POA and it has been used for quite some time now without any problems to our buyers or sellers.

I would like to say that I saw many of you compare Sumday to "timeshare salesman" and I really wish after the 15 years in business you would stop that, we don't offer you a gift to come to the resort, we don't send you on a 90 minute presentation, we don't have sales people we have order takers. So, we aren't anything like a timeshare salesman and you really shouldn't apply a negative connotation to us just because we work indirectly in the timeshare industry.

Back to the subject, very rarely do we ever have to use a POA but it usually has something to do with the purchaser was unreachable for x amount of time as they were on a cruise or extended vacation, the purchaser was unreachable due to military service and most normally the purchaser asks us to use it because they don't want to make another trip to a notary for such a simple error that can be fixed with ease. I am sorry that you felt uncomfortable and I'm glad that the staff was able to handle your request without involving me, I found out about the issue from this string.

I haven't posted in a while so just wanted to say thank you to all of you that continue to support us and we look forward to serving you for many years to come.

Jeff Brown
Sumday Vacations

 

[chapjim]

Agree 100%. There is no way I would sign a blanket POA with a timeshare salesman. Stick to your guns; they are just being lazy.
And I can't believe the number of people rationalizing this.

Sue

Nonsense.

For the third or fourth time, this is NOT A BLANKET POA. Stop saying you would not sign a blanket POA because it has nothing to do with the document Sumday requires. Sumday's POA is very limited. Rather than being lazy, Sumday is being extremely diligent.

[edited] For what it's worth, I wouldn't sign a General Power of Attorney for anyone except my wife and even then, I'd need extraordinary circumstances to think a General Power necessary.

 

[Merdock69]

Wife and I just signed the POA. It's limited to executing documents pertaining to the closing of the transaction, specifically prohibits several types of changes and terminates at closing or 120 days. Just a, for what its worth...

 

[simpsontruckdriver]

I tried to buy two resort weeks (HICV) through Sumday last year, and in the end, it was the resorts who decided they wanted the inexpensive weeks for themselves (I was refunded the amount I paid). I see most of these complaints about POAs as nothing, if you don't want the extra assurance then go with another company. Who knows if the other company is legit? If I wanted to buy a week, I would not hesitate to buy from Sumday, and if they put a POA in the mix, where do I sign?

TS