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Premier Destinations Stumbles Early

PerryM

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SPECIAL REPORT: Ski Side Village In The Poconos, Pennsylvania, Learns The Hard Way
March 9, 2001
The Timeshare Beat
Owners at the 57-unit Ski Side Village in Pocono Township, Monroe County, Pennsylvania, a deeded-weeks property, have learned the hard way the importance of keeping tabs on their TOA/HOA.

Owners at this resort have been sending in their maintenance fees regular as clockwork for years, and part of those maintenance fees were supposed to go toward paying property taxes, as detailed in their contracts. Yet in late 1998 Monroe County and a court-appointed custodian were in the process of trying to collect some $700,000 in owed taxes from the 1,750 shocked timeshare owners, who were naturally concerned that they are being asked to pay property taxes twice-- once to the homeowner's association and now again to the court-appointed custodian.

The director of Monroe County Tax Claim Bureau said her office had made agreements with the Owners Association, controlled by realtor Frank Carr III, to collect $500,000 in back taxes and Carr "defaulted on the agreements." Carr denied the allegation. Ivan J. Krouk, a Philadelphia lawyer who is the current court-appointed custodian, contends that the shortfall is due to the fact that Carr never billed himself for the timeshares he owns, reportedly some 29 percent of the total inventory.

Krouk's appointment by Common Pleas Judge Jerome P. Cheslock early in 2000 arose from a suit brought on behalf of timeshare owner Heddy Ann Vymazel of York, PA. Krouk's report charges

Vymazal said she learned in 1999 that taxes on her property had not been paid since 1995 despite the fact that she had paid her $275 maintenance fee for her one-week share every year, plus a one-time $50 special assessment for real estate taxes, ever since buying her timeshare in 1986.

Because it is the HOA/TOA that is notified by the County of taxes due, not the individual owners, neither she nor other owners ever knew that the taxes were not being paid.

The County tried to auction off all the units at a tax sale in 1998, but was unsuccessful. On September 21, 1999, the County did indeed sell off one entire unit (Unit 30), which was purchased by Charlie and Victoria Keller-- who operate as Greenwood Trust, Inc. It was sold for $4,269.83; the deed was issued on June 23, 2000. Frank Carr allegedly owned 13 weeks in Unit 30.



Result of appeals:

http://www.aopc.org/OpPosting/Supreme/out/872mal2002.pdf

I'm going on reading a follow up post from years ago but I believe the judge used common sense and threw out the case...the owners got back their units and the HOE got the boot.
 

PerryM

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The above was posted in the "VRBO" thread on October 29th; as usual, you simply ignore any posts that contradict the fallacies that you depend upon to support your assertions.

Your M.O. of making an outrageous statement (or a 'bold challenge') and then simply ignoring any facts to the contrary, is getting as old and tiresome as your numerous fallacious arguments ('the strip mall where I go to karate has had n+5 tenants in the last n years, therefore, >90% of businesses fail in the first year, regardless of what SBA studies have shown..."

I simply asked for the EXACT wordage (and a link would be nice) and not second or third hand recounts of rumors.

The Internet is full of rumors...
 

PerryM

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It's your money...

There is a market for everything mankind can dream up to sell – I remember the “Pet Rock” one year for Christmas was the hottest thing going.

Tulip bulbs were a hot commodity in the Netherlands back in the 1600’s – cost more than their weight in gold.

For those of you who have bought a DC I understand the pressure to posture and defend your decision – I do it too – I’m human. So I’m not accusing any DC owner of buying a DC. I have stated that I can be temped into buying one at my “Throw away” price of $35k – the same price as a Marriott week and I would not lose sleep in losing that money. I would not get a lawyer or start consumer activism against the DC – I’d just walk away if need be.

But to compare a DC to a timeshare is lunacy in my book. As I’ve stated many times the Perry’s definition of a DC is:

“A bunch of folks buying a condo for a rich guy and then paying him rent to use it”.

You can’t use that definition for a timeshare where ownership is usually part of the deal. So are real estate courts and laws and lawyers and state real estate boards and thousands of bureaucrats.

A DC has none of this – it’s the wild west of the real estate industry.
I’m hoping that folks doing their due diligence read my warning posts and if they decide to go ahead with a DC I won’t judge them. If I somehow have suggested that I am judging you for buying one I apologize – it’s your money to do with anyway you want.
 

vineyarder

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I simply asked for the EXACT wordage (and a link would be nice) and not second or third hand recounts of rumors.

The Internet is full of rumors...

Here you go again - retroactively changing the question when you don't like the answer! You did NOT ask for exact wordage; here is your initial question:

Is there a single DC out there that addresses this simple question - if the DC says 8 full memberships comprise each unit that 8 full memberships are verified by a CPA?

I answered yes on October 29th; as this was not the answer you wanted to hear, you ignored it. When answered again, you attempt to retroactively change the question - do you really think that people will be fooled by these games? In any case, this is not a 'rumor', as I have read the document personally; I cannot / will not provide the 'exact wordage' as that is confidential information. Of course, having grown accustomed to your unique style of 'debate', even if I did provide the exact verbiage, your response would either be to ignore it or to make some totally outrageous and unfounded accusation, such as "for all we know, this CPA is really Jack the Ripper". If, however, you were serious about joining PE, I am sure that they would share it with you.
 

PerryM

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PerryM

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Here you go again - retroactively changing the question when you don't like the answer! You did NOT ask for exact wordage; here is your initial question:



I answered yes on October 29th; as this was not the answer you wanted to hear, you ignored it. When answered again, you attempt to retroactively change the question - do you really think that people will be fooled by these games? In any case, this is not a 'rumor', as I have read the document personally; I cannot / will not provide the 'exact wordage' as that is confidential information. Of course, having grown accustomed to your unique style of 'debate', even if I did provide the exact verbiage, your response would either be to ignore it or to make some totally outrageous and unfounded accusation, such as "for all we know, this CPA is really Jack the Ripper". If, however, you were serious about joining PE, I am sure that they would share it with you.

I don't know what debating style you seem to feel comfortable with - Molotov cocktails isn't going to move the debate forward.

If you want me to slow down and speak louder I'd be glad to debate any related topic.

So pick a topic and start a new thread and I'd be glad to participate. I can type slower....
 

vivalour

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<<Of course, having grown accustomed to your unique style of 'debate', even if I did provide the exact verbiage, your response would either be to ignore it or to make some totally outrageous and unfounded accusation, such as "for all we know, this CPA is really Jack the Ripper". >>

Hey guys, how about a Battle of the Bands for charity??? This is so entertaining I am now going to plunk down my TUG membership. :clap:
 

Bourne

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But as far as I remember NO timeshare owner lost anything - it was thrown out of court by the judge...

If you think this is not correct I'll do some research for you and send you the bill - is that OK?

I''ll offer to foot the bill.

Let me know how much it is. Downside is that, if I am correct, you owe me a few grand.

Just a small wager. Let's put our money where our mouth is.
 

PerryM

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I''ll offer to foot the bill.

Let me know how much it is. Downside is that, if I am correct, you owe me a few grand.

Just a small wager. Let's put our money where our mouth is.

Ok, give me a week to find the second part of the story - the one where the judge threw out the case and the owners got back their ownership.

My fee is high - one Krispy Kreme to the winner.
 

vineyarder

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If you want me to slow down and speak louder I'd be glad to debate any related topic.

So pick a topic and start a new thread and I'd be glad to participate. I can type slower....

Yet another classic Perryism (def: "technique whereby an individual evades the issue when proven wrong, often by ignoring the facts presented and throwing out irrelevant platitudes").

You won't win any arguments by insulting my intelligence. This may come as a surprise to you, but when you post on this forum, the posts remain readable even several days later, so that others can actually look back and see the earlier post. Therefore, when you ask a question, then claim you asked a different question, or when you promise to join a DC if they meet certain criteria, then claim the criteria were different (or that you didn't say that), or when you challenge someone to find "just one" instance of something and then try to deny reality, or when you claim people are putting words in your mouth when they are in fact quoting a previous quote verbatim, or when you make ridiculous assertions about Jack the Ripper, or when you claim that your experience with a smoothie shop in a strip mall in Missouri outweighs large studies by the SBA, etc., people can actually follow the threads and see that you are constantly contradicting yourself, making ridiculous assertions, and refusing to acknowledge when you are proven wrong.

Trying to detract from these issues by insulting my intelligence simply makes you appear immature and petty. If you send me a PM with your mailing address, I will gladly send you an excellent book on logic, as well as a copy of Miss Manners Guide to Etiquette, two books that you obviously need quite desperately.
 

Tedpilot

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"what happens if the prize gets eaten before a winner is declared?"

Rematch!!!
 

PerryM

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Yet another classic Perryism (def: "technique whereby an individual evades the issue when proven wrong, often by ignoring the facts presented and throwing out irrelevant platitudes").

You won't win any arguments by insulting my intelligence. This may come as a surprise to you, but when you post on this forum, the posts remain readable even several days later, so that others can actually look back and see the earlier post. Therefore, when you ask a question, then claim you asked a different question, or when you promise to join a DC if they meet certain criteria, then claim the criteria were different (or that you didn't say that), or when you challenge someone to find "just one" instance of something and then try to deny reality, or when you claim people are putting words in your mouth when they are in fact quoting a previous quote verbatim, or when you make ridiculous assertions about Jack the Ripper, or when you claim that your experience with a smoothie shop in a strip mall in Missouri outweighs large studies by the SBA, etc., people can actually follow the threads and see that you are constantly contradicting yourself, making ridiculous assertions, and refusing to acknowledge when you are proven wrong.

Trying to detract from these issues by insulting my intelligence simply makes you appear immature and petty. If you send me a PM with your mailing address, I will gladly send you an excellent book on logic, as well as a copy of Miss Manners Guide to Etiquette, two books that you obviously need quite desperately.

Just pick a topic...
 

jerseygirl

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But as far as I remember NO timeshare owner lost anything - it was thrown out of court by the judge...

If you think this is not correct I'll do some research for you and send you the bill - is that OK?

Where do I send the bill for finding "just ONE" example?
 

PerryM

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Where do I send the bill for finding "just ONE" example?

The Drive-By Media uses this same tactic all the time - report half the story.

I'll sniff around for a week to find that second part of the same story - the one where the judge in the same case threw out the judgement and gave the units back to the original owners.

If I can find that second article then no case has yet been found.

Don't give up folks - even if I find that second part to the story. I've never heard of a single timeshare deed holder losing usage of their unit except for attachments to their deed for other court actions against that one owner. (Child support, etc.)

So keep on looking and any new cases found you will receive a Krispy Kreme from me. (1 per new case - first come first served)
 
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jerseygirl

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The Drive-By Media uses this same tactic all the time - report half the story.

I anxiously await the results of your research. I've already furnished the appeal denial by Pennsylvania's court of last resort. I'm relatively certain this never went to the Supremes, but will gladly eat my words if you can find proof of their reversal.

By the way, my favorite is the chocolated iced kreme filled.
 

Bourne

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TFor those of you who have bought a DC I understand the pressure to posture and defend your decision – I do it too – I’m human. So I’m not accusing any DC owner of buying a DC. I have stated that I can be temped into buying one at my “Throw away” price of $35k – the same price as a Marriott week and I would not lose sleep in losing that money. I would not get a lawyer or start consumer activism against the DC – I’d just walk away if need be.

But to compare a DC to a timeshare is lunacy in my book. As I’ve stated many times the Perry’s definition of a DC is:

“A bunch of folks buying a condo for a rich guy and then paying him rent to use it”.

You know what's funny.

You are the one comparing a DC to a timeshare. None of the DC owners have said that a DC is is like a timeshare.

Far from it.

With respect to risk vs reward, I would recommend everyone to search for posts made by you on DCs and Redweek deposits. Keep a sharp eye on the post update date.
 

Bourne

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Wow...

another 100 post thread with lots of fun...

Let me wait for a few days and start another one....:rolleyes: :annoyed:
 
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