Private Escapes and Ultimate Resorts to Merge

[LTTravel]

UR or PE a better membership deal?

It is definately three tiers and five different membership plans. The interview with the CEO's on Helium and Sherpa indicate that they want to merge reservations by December and use PE's current online booking system. I don't know how they are going to do that with the different booking rules between UR and PE.

If they keep both plans retroactively and change membership rules only proactively, who do you think benefits more, UR or PE members? The way I look at it. PE Pinnacle has unlimited reservations, 28 days on the books at any one time, up to two years in advance, can book a reservation from 1-14 days long, unlimited holidays. The UR elite platinum has 42 bookable days per year but up to 28 days up to 2 years in advance (in 4, 7 day, Sunday to Sunday reservations) and 14 days up to 180 days in advance plus 30,000 points good for another 10 days and two holidays 180-2 years in advance, unlimited holidays <180 days. PE $22,000 annual dues plus daily fees, UR Elite Platinum, $30,000 yearly dues. PE you can book lower tiered homes, UR Elite Platinum, you cannot.
Similar but slightly different scenario for UR Platinum vs PE Platinum. It would be very difficult to determine which is the better deal. It can get very confusing to figure this out.

 

[Kagehitokiri]

yeah, they are vastly different models - IMHO this will set a real precedent for M&A in the DC industry, much moreso than the merger of Quintess/DCR and LHW (which dropped unlimited total use from LHW) for example.

PE brings a new low tier, and about the same for mid tier.
UR brings a lot more properties for the high tier.

plans are becoming more like UR.

but it also seems fairly certain that they are bringing in the PE reciprocity, from the way they are wording the number of destinations/properties offered by the new post merger club.

and PE did not have unlimited use for no extra fee, they charge a fee for every single night used. so even if they did get rid of unlimited use (especially when you have 5 plans with different numbers of nights) its nowhere near the same impact it was for LHW members after the Quintess/DCR and LHW merger.

 

[pwrshift]

To me, RC Club seems a lot different from the DC market ... more resort areas than individual homes and only a handful of locations at present. I can't see RC running around town making beds and cleaning up a bunch of 'home' locations. Apparently RC has 3,000 'owners' at their present list of locations, so they are growing.

Brian

RC , through its RC club, already is in the hybrid DC industry .Current Maui Club cost 390000 for 21 days usage, 17000 annual dues, 38 weeks to be sold per unit. No Christmas/New Year unless you pay premium. Exchangable to other RC club properties within 45 days window. You do get a deed and title.

 

[Kagehitokiri]

im curious about the "exchange within 45 days" part though..

some fractional properties allow unlimited space available use, and booking multiple units even though you only own 1 fraction.

but i have never seen a fractional company / PRC that allows unlimited use across their portfolio. setai may do that in the future, once they have more properties, but while they were originally planning to do it with Amanresorts properties, that has apparently been scrapped.

if a PRC did that, id be more interested. otherwise i see DCs as much more attractive since they have multiple destinations/properties.

banyan tree private collection is basically like a DC, and sells 1-week increments for $100K/$3K, and you can go to any of their hotels/resorts(villas etc), or a number of independent villas as well. banyan tree residences are designed more for investment purposes, allowing a choice of 2 different income/return models, and charging up to $2.5MM (seychelles) for 60 days of use per year.

 

[vineyarder]

Where did you see that presentation?

Called up UR and a membership director took me on an online "tour"... agree that it is strange that they do not show and list all the homes by club on their website...

 

[vineyarder]

An email from Jim Tousignant to Helium apparently stated that current member plans will not be effected, only those going forward. How can you have members in a club where some have unlimited use and others have limited use, where some have unlimited holidays and others have limited holidays? Some must book Sunday to Sunday and others do not have to. Many of the plans are quite different.

That is what PE members have been told as well; no change to deal you joined, just changes for new members, although things like holiday booking rules may change, as they were subject to change (and did change twice) previously... It may be a bit cumbersome, but certainly feasible to have numerous rules that apply differently to different members; the computer reservations sytems should be able to know that I, as an 'old-timer PE' can book unlimited nights but a new member is limited to a certain number per year (just like new members in different plans get different numbers of nights, holiday usage, etc.). My understanding is that current UR reservation policies, while more restictive than PE, are still more flexible than ER or others that require a 7 night stay srriving on a certain day. My guess is that the combined entity will have a reservation system that is more like PE's (hence the decision to use PE's booking engine) but perhaps with some tweaking; i.e. may change minimum from 1 night to 2 or 3 nights...

 

[vineyarder]

PE members, please keep us informed as to when they let you know how you will be affected / what your choices are.

So far, we've been told that we will not be 'shoehorned' into any new/different plan; we'll still be under the agreement we joined under; i.e. unlimited nights, same annual dues (but still subject to annual CPI + 2% increases), same deposit refund policy (100% or 80%, depending on when you joined), etc. Certainly some policies will change (i.e. holidays, maybe minimum nights to book), but we will not be 'converted' to some new membership plan; we'll be a 'special class' of member that mirrors our current arrangement.

 

[vineyarder]

It is definately three tiers and five different membership plans. The interview with the CEO's on Helium and Sherpa indicate that they want to merge reservations by December and use PE's current online booking system. I don't know how they are going to do that with the different booking rules between UR and PE.

If they keep both plans retroactively and change membership rules only proactively, who do you think benefits more, UR or PE members? The way I look at it. PE Pinnacle has unlimited reservations, 28 days on the books at any one time, up to two years in advance, can book a reservation from 1-14 days long, unlimited holidays. The UR elite platinum has 42 bookable days per year but up to 28 days up to 2 years in advance (in 4, 7 day, Sunday to Sunday reservations) and 14 days up to 180 days in advance plus 30,000 points good for another 10 days and two holidays 180-2 years in advance, unlimited holidays <180 days. PE $22,000 annual dues plus daily fees, UR Elite Platinum, $30,000 yearly dues. PE you can book lower tiered homes, UR Elite Platinum, you cannot.
Similar but slightly different scenario for UR Platinum vs PE Platinum. It would be very difficult to determine which is the better deal. It can get very confusing to figure this out.

I agree - very confusing... I'm glad that I'm not in the position of having to make that decision right now! Since it has been announced that rates for the new entity will be 25% - 35% higher than current plans, anyone considering joining would want to do that prior to the merger to avoid the rate hike, but wouldn't really know what the eventual entity will look like or which 'deal' is better right now. I guess the bottom line for someone wanting to join PE or UR before the rate increases would be to base the decision on a 'what ifthe merger falls through' scenario, and join the one whose destinations, homes, rules, etc. fit your needs best...

 

[travelguy]

I'll respectfully disagree. Talk to some of the folks at HCC, or even better sign an NDA and get their financial projecctions. They are trying to evolve their club toward the $100K membership level.

I think HCC has carved out a niche and has been successful so far. However they have equity investors and need an eventual exit strategy. It may be sooner or later - who knows for sure. But... a meger would be a very desirable option if the terms are right.

The HCC 10 year plan does have the average membership up to $100K within three years BUT this is the average of all "equivalent" memberships including the lower membership plans. I'm guessing that their Private memberships will top out at about $80K which should give them the $100K average when you blend in the Affiliate, Associate and Group memberships.

My understanding is that HCC will continue to focus on this specific demographic (the "value luxury" customer) and offer several different plans based on the number of nights (as they do now).

HCC's advantage has always been their corporate efficiency which allows them to be profitable at a lower membership fee and their targeting of the specific "value luxury" vertical market. This makes them the top player in this niche. It's ironic that HCC is targeting the narrowest vertical market that also happens to have an almost infinite base of potential consumers.

Also, the HCC PPM 10-year plan has tremendous return for equity investors that would be hard to match with any type of merger or acquisition by another DC. As I mentioned before, they appear to be on track for those returns to investors. I contend that any merger or acquisition of HCC will happen much later rather than sooner.

All of this is good news for HCC members and potential members!

 

[Steamboat Bill]

I still think this merger is good for the DC industry, but the cost per night will be in the $1,000 per night range.

 

[Kagehitokiri]

thanks for all the additional information vineyarder,

that might make sense (keeping your current plan) i wonder if its the same for UR members as well. and just adding reciprocity, so that everyone can can use every property for at least 1 week. it will be interesting to see what they do with unlimited use/nightly fees..

now would people joining now be in the same situation, or would they eventually be shifted into new plans? it seemed from the wording if you join now it might be beneficial/discount/etc, but that could also simply be a marketing tactic. because they werent particularly clear.

 

[GOLFNBEACH]

I still think this merger is good for the DC industry, but the cost per night will be in the $1,000 per night range.

Totally agree. For livin' large with family and friends $1K/night may be reasonable. For my usual vacation with the wife and 2 kids, I would like to keep the cost per night at half of that.

It remains to be seen whether HCC or other future DCs can meet that requirement as a long term business model.

 

[Steamboat Bill]

Totally agree. For livin' large with family and friends $1K/night may be reasonable. For my usual vacation with the wife and 2 kids, I would like to keep the cost per night at half of that.

It remains to be seen whether HCC or other future DCs can meet that requirement as a long term business model.

Not to beat the same drum all the time, but this was one of the reasons why I joined HCC vs the any of the other DCs.

I can afford to pay $1,000 per night, but prefer not to spend that amount when I can get an extremely nice accommodation's for $325 per night with HCC.

For my family of four, HCC blows away any timeshare and most rentals I have previously stayed at. In addition, the DC concept is far superior than owning a second home.

I love the $2-4m properties, but think this will have a negative effect on my kids as they are tremendously overindulged just by living in Boca Raton. It is bad enough when my kids regularly get picked up for play dates in Bently's that cost more than most peoples homes.

 

[Kagehitokiri]

i hope theyre at least arnages, instead of flying spurs (man it seems like everyone has a chauffered arnage in London)

i certainly will never spend that much on a family car. but it would be awfully convenient to have a driver.

im trying to plan for the other way - "overindulge" with travel, but live in a somewhat less "money" area.

 

[Steamboat Bill]

My kids have ridden in the Arnage, Azure, and Continental.

A very good friend of mine just got a GTC (the convertible one) and I have not been in it yet.

My kids want me to trade in my wife's Pacifica for the "B car"....perhaps....NOT!

 

[Kagehitokiri]

continental i understand is made by VW themselves now. so i probably wouldnt go with one personally.

azure. yummy. will be interesting to see how phantom convertible sales compare.

i remember recommending DB9 and F430 to someone looking at $200K sporty convertibles.

perhaps not indeed

 

[LTTravel]

azure. mmmm.

continental i understand is made by VW themselves now. so i probably wouldnt go with one.

A powder blue continental convertible in sunny Florida or SoCal. I've seen them, and though not a color I would drive daily, boy, they look nice. Great to pick up a goldigging babe.

 

[Kagehitokiri]

i started really liking the F430 after seeing Miami Vice

wonder when a DC will finally start a real partnership with a car club.

 

[LTTravel]

i started really liking the F430 after seeing Miami Vice

wonder when a DC will finally start a real partnership with a car club.

Tanner and Haley tried this, just before the bankruptcy. I think Quintess has some limited car club options with OnQ experience.

 

[Steamboat Bill]

wonder when a DC will finally start a real partnership with a car club.

A friend of mine started Collexium and I previewed it here.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46080&highlight=collexium

FYI...they even had a party with Exclusive Resorts in the past....

 

[Kagehitokiri]

lttravel, interesting re onQ.

bill, IIRC thats one of the most appealing to me, saw it on helium report or luxist.

always good to have friends in the right places i presume its been fairly successful?

talking about the new club again >

This winter, Stowe Mountain Resort will unite both the Mt Mansfield and Spruce Oeak ski mountains into [a] resort with state-of-the-art high speed lifts. Spruce Peak at Stowe, the mountain's base development, offers ski-in/ski-out (and golf-in/golf-out in the summer) [well thats unique ] access through...mountain cabins (starting at $2.2 million)...new 139-room Stowe Mountain Lodge (managed by Destination Hotels & Resorts). The lodge also features a Cooper Wellness Center spa...

seems prime for PE/UR tradeups or for clubs like Bellehavens/Crescendo to expand their portfolios.

 

[LTTravel]

Figured we'd take guesses on the new name of the new company. I say it is going to be Ultimate Escapes. Any other guesses?

 

[Kagehitokiri]

or Private Resorts? either sound similar to ER or sound really different.

they might just choose one too. IMHO Private Escapes is better than Ultimate Resort.

 

[vineyarder]

Figured we'd take guesses on the new name of the new company. I say it is going to be Ultimate Escapes. Any other guesses?

My bet would have been on Ultimate Escapes, but I think that both Ultimate Escapes and Private Resorts are both already trademarked (Private Resorts by "Destinations, Private Resorts" a small DC, and Ultimate Escapes by a travel agency)...

 

[LTTravel]

I spoke to a UR person a few days ago. I got the impression that the only way they think that they can compete with ER is with numbers, and having three tiers allows growth within the company. I wouldn't be surprised if they go after HCC after the dust settles with this merger. Then they would be up to 1600 members and no competition in the <$1 million group.