Question on partial transfer of timeshare

[Bsachetti]

I may be wrong but I believe the title company, now out of business, was not a "real" title company but rather an extension of eBay seller/exit firm AllSeasonsTravel.

@Bsachetti, was this an eBay purchase from AllSeasonsTravel?

Yes... An eBay purchase from AllSeasonsTravel and their associated title company Rodgers and Lee were handling the transfer.

 

[OldGuy]

Wow! I feel for you.

So, if a resort/timeshare company can disallow ownership when a property has been transferred by recorded deed, because of outstanding dept, what else can they disallow ownership for? Can they just say, "No, we're not recognizing the new owner?"

Let me think a second, because this is confusing.

OK, if the debt is with the former owner, why is the resort/company not going after them, instead of penalizing the new owner? If there truly is an unpaid debt, it is the seller/former owner, that both the buyer and the resort/company have a beef with?

 

[RX8]

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like you would have any luck with the eBay seller because they are no longer a registered eBay user. With both AllSeasonsTravel and Rodgers and Lee going out of business at the same time they are definitely the same low life scumbags.

I suspect that the original owner was scammed with this as well as they likely paid AllSeasonsTravel an upfront fee to get rid of the timeshare. Can you get in contact with the original owner? If they truly want to get out of this mess they may have to payoff the mortgage to allow the transfer to go through. Sorry that you are in this situation. I wish you luck.

 

[Bsachetti]

Wow! I feel for you.

So, if a resort/timeshare company can disallow ownership when a property has been transferred by recorded deed, because of outstanding dept, what else can they disallow ownership for? Can they just say, "No, we're not recognizing the new owner?"

Let me think a second, because this is confusing.

OK, if the debt is with the former owner, why is the resort/company not going after them, instead of penalizing the new owner? If there truly is an unpaid debt, it is the seller/former owner, that both the buyer and the resort/company have a beef with?

I suspect the former owner wanted out of the timeshare and couldn’t afford the payoff so the deal never went to completion. Betting they don’t know the deed isn’t in their name at this point. Seems we are both in a bind right now.

 

[Bsachetti]

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like you would have any luck with the eBay seller because they are no longer a registered eBay user. With both AllSeasonsTravel and Rodgers and Lee going out of business at the same time they are definitely the same low life scumbags.

I suspect that the original owner was scammed with this as well as they likely paid AllSeasonsTravel an upfront fee to get rid of the timeshare. Can you get in contact with the original owner? If they truly want to get out of this mess they may have to payoff the mortgage to allow the transfer to go through. Sorry that you are in this situation. I wish you luck.
View attachment 11440

I think you nailed it!! I don’t think the seller is even aware they transferred the deed and might not have gotten paid anything. You may be right that they paid something to All Seasons. Just an unfortunate situation for buyer and seller.

 

[RX8]

Ivan Myrick is the listed principal for AllSeasonsTravel. He has been around a few years under different company names such as IA Vacations and Redweeks4less. When complaints start rolling in it looks like this guy just starts over with a clean new name. He should be locked up before being allowed to do this all over again

Here is a prior thread on this guy's companies - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/platinum-hilton-head-sold-on-ebay.223385/#post-1726626

 

[bogey21]

Worst come to worst, the OP can sign a quitclaim deed back to the seller.
At least that way, it'll be out of his name, and he can sue for his $$ back.
.

I think I would quit claim it back to the Seller, record the deed, eat the $1,600 and move on with life...

George

 

[Pathways]

I think I would quit claim it back to the Seller, record the deed, eat the $1,600 and move on with life...

George

Strongly consider this advice, but I would not necessarily use a quit claim, consider deeding it back the same way it was deeded to you. Easy to do this yourself using EXACT same words, spelling etc just switching the names. Only cost is the filing fee.

It is possible the 'seller' doesn't even know their timeshare interest was sold, the whole thing could be fraudulent. I may or may not have had a personal experience from an Ebay seller in TN where after a long time had passed with no resort transfer (this was a certificate property, not a deed) and 50+ excuses, I used some 'trickery' with Marriott and was able to get the seller's name and address. He hung up on me three times, but I found his place of business through Linkedin and called there and finally talked with him. Turns out he had NO IDEA his week was being sold, and had NO interest in selling. All the papers had a fraudulent signatures on them. Thankfully I used a CC and was able to get all my funds back.

 

[OldGuy]

Committing fraud to resolve fraud probably is not a good idea.

 

[Talent312]

I suggested using a quitclaim deed 'cuz they don't want to warrant the title.
If they use a warranty deed, then include an exception for the seller's debt.

The estoppel may have been fraudulent. I would ask HGV to examine it and
tell you if they issued it and if it was altered to omit the loan.

The OP may also want to report the fraud to the Attorney General's Office
and consumer affairs office in the state where the closing company operated.

.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

IMHO...I would consult with a timeshare knowledgeable real estate attorney as you don't want to mess this up.

I just learned that through my DH's employer we can enroll and pay a little extra ($18/mo) to get prepaid legal services benefit which provides legal consultation, review and preparation of documents such as wills and trusts, deed preparation, fight traffic tickets, represent you during a tax audit, and legal letters. I just called and they cover personal timeshare transactions. (They don't cover rentals or business transactions). Perhaps you or your significant other have a similar pre-paid legal benefit through your employer to obtain legal guidance on this matter?

Otherwise, I have found great attorneys via AVVO.com but that will run at least $300 - $400 an hour which is much more than the employer provided prepaid legal cost per year ($216). Although our employers have provided pre-paid legal benefits for years, we are new to enrolling in this service so YMMV. I understand that they also will support out-of-network attorneys with a set fee schedule so you may get a discount for using your favorite attorney.

Unfortunately, this may cost more than the $1,600 you paid for the timeshare to unwind this. If you had requested title insurance upfront, the third party agency probably wouldn't accept a title company to be added for insurance so this would have been a red flag on the transaction. We worked with a third party closing agency that readily added title insurance from a large title provider so we knew they were legit.

Good luck. Please let us know what you learn about how to unwind this mess.

 

[Bsachetti]

Great advice so far from everyone and I appreciate all of the input and experiences shared!!

What if I do nothing? I spent $1600 and have a deed in my name but if there’s no additional risk or obligation that comes with that, why would I spend money to potentially unwind it. I assume I’ll hear from the seller if they want to sell in the future but until then, do I need to take any action other than trying to recover my $1600 which seems unlikely?

 

[dropngo]

Did you pay your $1600.00 through credit card? If you did, you can dispute it with your bank.

 

[Bsachetti]

Did you pay your $1600.00 through credit card? If you did, you can dispute it with your bank.

I did... definitely going down that path. Either way, should I pay any more $$ to unwind this? I know it leaves me and the seller in an awkward spot.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Great advice so far from everyone and I appreciate all of the input and experiences shared!!

What if I do nothing? I spent $1600 and have a deed in my name but if there’s no additional risk or obligation that comes with that, why would I spend money to potentially unwind it. I assume I’ll hear from the seller if they want to sell in the future but until then, do I need to take any action other than trying to recover my $1600 which seems unlikely?

This is where you need an attorney. It is possible HGVC could come after you for past due MF if your name is on the deed. Worse yet, they may say you assumed the loan by agreeing to purchase the property (but that might be more of a stretch without associated loan paperwork.) Either way you still need an attorney to guide you upfront or fight the past due MF bill later on.

 

[dropngo]

I’m no attorney, but I suggest you doing nothing except trying to recover your $1600 first. You haven’t signed any seller’s existing loan doc., so you are not liable. HGVC will not transfer ownership until seller’s loan is paid off. Meanwhile keep a good trace of records. Later you can always do a quit claim deed. Good luck!

 

[bogey21]

Committing fraud to resolve fraud probably is not a good idea.

What fraud? County records apparently show Week was deeded to OP. How is it a fraud to deed it back?

George

 

[Talent312]

If you do nothing and a foreclosure is filed for the loan or MF's,
you will be named as a defendant and served, even if not liable
for any $$ personally, just 'cuz your name's in the chain of title.
IOW, you will be id'd as someone having "an interest" in it.

 

[OldGuy]

What fraud? County records apparently show Week was deeded to OP. How is it a fraud to deed it back? George

I assume the OP would not have bought it if it was not free and clear, so I assume the seller told him it was free and clear. Fraud by the seller.

Or, if the OP was told by the seller that it was not free and clear, and the OP tried to get ownership transferred knowing that, not intending to pay off the balance, fraud on the OP. (Not what I'm reading into it, which is that the OP/Buyer did not know about the unpaid balance until he tried to transfer ownership at the resort.)

In any event, it's a mell of a hess, and like I said before, I wonder if a resort could refuse to transfer an ownership just because they don't want to.

 

[OldGuy]

If you do nothing and a foreclosure is filed for the loan or MF's,
you will be named as a defendant and served, even if not liable
for any $$ personally, just 'cuz your name's in the chain of title.
IOW, you will be id'd as someone having "an interest" in it.

& when it gets to that point, the amount will be much higher than whatever the unpaid balance is now, which I notice has not been mentioned.

 

[Bsachetti]

I assume the OP would not have bought it if it was not free and clear, so I assume the seller told him it was free and clear. Fraud by the seller.

Or, if the OP was told by the seller that it was not free and clear, and the OP tried to get ownership transferred knowing that, not intending to pay off the balance, fraud on the OP. (Not what I'm reading into it.)

In any event, it's a mell of a hess, and like I said before, I wonder if a resort could refuse to transfer an ownership just because they don't want to.

I have a copy of the eBay ad and the purchase agreement and both mention a free and clear title... Definitely not my intention to transfer something that isn't free and clear. I haven't had any communications with HGVC about this as those were all initiated by the title company.

 

[Bsachetti]

& when it gets to that point, the amount will be much higher than whatever the unpaid balance is now, which I notice has not been mentioned.

I have no idea of the balance -- that was never shared with me. Is there a liability for a deed owner for a TS that failed to transfer? I assume there could be an encumbrance on the deed because of a loan default or unpaid dues, etc. but I don't see how I could be liable given the circumstances, so I will keep good records of the process and transactions.

 

[OldGuy]

Fraud or theft by deception by seller for nondisclosure.

enough to cancel the sale, find against the seller, and undo the deed.

I would threaten the seller with a civil suit, reporting it as a crime if you can figure out what crime it is in your jurisdiction, ask the seller to take it back by Quit Claim Deed, refund your $1600, and pay the cost of preparing and recording the new Deed.

Once you agree to a settlement, you can no longer report it as a crime.

Preparing a deed would be simple. Just take the one you have, and flip the Grantor and Grantee.

Expense to you to do this . . . your time.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Does your estoppel have info about the loan? If not I would contact HGVC and let them know and go from there.

I doubt the seller has received the $1600. If they have, it may be difficult to prove because the 3rd party is closed. Or seller wont give it up easily if they could not make the payments.

 

[Bsachetti]

I'll see if they sent me the estoppel -- I know they (title company) had said HGVC didn't note the loan in the estoppel and they were later surprised to hear there was a loan balance. I don't recall actually seeing the estoppel from HGVC.