Questions for Maui Ocean Club Owners - New Towers or Original

[JIMinNC]

We’re still in the process of evaluating the best approach to add an EOY Maui Ocean Club week to our ownership. We’ve been considering a hybrid bundle to achieve the EOY week Maui goal, plus that would bump us up to Executive in the DC. But frankly, the $30K cost of that option is causing it to rapidly lose appeal.

We’re starting to lean more toward just buying a third-party resale week at MOC (obviously unenrollable) and making do with our current DC points total - at least for now. While we’ve been focusing mainly on either a 1BR, or maybe a 2BR, in the original towers, I have recently seen some listings for floating EOY 2BR units in the Napili Tower that are not outlandishly expensive. There was a post a few days ago in the ROFR sticky thread from someone who was waiting on a ROFR decision for a deal at $13.5K for an EOY OF Napili. So, for any MOC owners out there I have a couple questions:

1.) Have you ever had issues booking your owned week in the prime winter season – mainly mid-January through mid-to-late-March? We would be fine with any week in that season – i.e. – we don’t need/want Presidents week, but we’ve heard the horror stories of the big multi-week owners booking up everything and leaving nothing for the others. Any difference in new vs original towers?

2.) I think these units are lock-off units, so in years when we only need the 1BR side, can the studio side be used effectively to trade in II? As I’ve posted often on TUG, I HATE Interval trading and don’t enjoy the uncertainty and waiting, but how useful can the studio side be with ongoing searches for other Marriotts? What kind of trades can an ongoing search with a studio get? I can maybe endure a little pain if I can reasonably expect to get good stuff! We’re planners, so we are not inclined to play the last-minute instant exchange/flexchange game.

Thanks for any information you can offer.

 

[JoJo12]

I would add to question #1 - same for summer bookings of floating weeks.

And, if we were to own a fixed week plus a floating week and wanted to book the float concurrent with the fixed, would we be in the 13 month booking window?

 

[TXTortoise]

JoJo12...yes you would be in the 13 month window.

Jim, a few of us newbies have been wrestling with that for the last 6-9 months. The angst over reserving a MOC week in prime winter has me chasing a fixed week in Lahaina or three floating weeks in MOC to get ahead of the curve. Mostly because, like you, I'm tired of chasing a trade in flex period that I use to get 6-9 months out with Streamside at Vail.

Most threads about reserving floating weeks in either of the new towers revolve around the difficulty of getting a prime winter and maybe to a slight lesser extent summer. And I've read them all.

Based on my experience with II trades of my weak Streamside trader I would say late January weeks 3-4 should be doable as an owner in the older buildings.

If you are willing to lock in a week 3-4 or 9-11 the price on 2BR new tower fixed are dropping into the mid to high 30s, with one 3rd floor week 10 fixed in Lahaina at $30k asking. Finding one of the few Napili EOY weeks may be really hard. EY floating I bet will be doable in the high 20s as MFs start coming due.

Would one 2BR OF EOY from each, MMO and MM1, make sense for you? Gets you 13 months out and ability to shop availability in both buildings for about $30k and MF of approximately $2400 EOY.

 

[JIMinNC]

JoJo12...yes you would be in the 13 month window.

Jim, a few of us newbies have been wrestling with that for the last 6-9 months. The angst over reserving a MOC week in prime winter has me chasing a fixed week in Lahaina or three floating weeks in MOC to get ahead of the curve. Mostly because, like you, I'm tired of chasing a trade in flex period that I use to get 6-9 months out with Streamside at Vail.

Most threads about reserving floating weeks in either of the new towers revolve around the difficulty of getting a prime winter and maybe to a slight lesser extent summer. And I've read them all.

Based on my experience with II trades of my weak Streamside trader I would say late January weeks 3-4 should be doable as an owner in the older buildings.

If you are willing to lock in a week 3-4 or 9-11 the price on 2BR new tower fixed are dropping into the mid to high 30s, with one 3rd floor week 10 fixed in Lahaina at $30k asking. Finding one of the few Napili EOY weeks may be really hard. EY floating I bet will be doable in the high 20s as MFs start coming due.

Would one 2BR OF EOY from each, MMO and MM1, make sense for you? Gets you 13 months out and ability to shop availability in both buildings for about $30k and MF of approximately $2400 EOY.

I also recall the threads over the last few years expressing frustration with reserving winter dates, and found a few with a search, but posted the question anyway in hopes of getting some current responses consolidated into a current thread and maybe some more recent experiences.

I'm not inclined to go for fixed weeks, since I don't think we want to be locked into a specific week. Some years we might want to go in early January when the PGA Tour is at Kapalua, other years later in January or in February or March. And if we decide to do a family trip, since our daughter will be in college for at least 4-6 years, we might have to do summer in those years. So we probably need floating.

I also think it pretty much has to be an EOY - either in the Original Towers or Napili Tower - since that is our anticipated frequency of use. I don't want to have to deal with trading or renting out the unused unit in years we don't go there. We had that situation with our old Kaanapali Beach Club week, and I don't want to get back into that trap.

I'm not sure the two EOY weeks approach works either, although the 13 month option is appealing. We would likely stay two weeks in Hawaii, but not two on Maui. Some years we might stay week two on the Big Island, other years Kauai, and in yet other years maybe try KoOlina. I only want to own an unenrolled deeded week somewhere that I think I'm going to use the vast, vast majority of the time.

I'm still somewhat on the fence on 1BR vs 2BR. What we'll need most often is probably the 1BR - and that's where my thinking started - but the simple fact that sometimes we might want a 2BR and the 2BR maintenance fees are only slightly more than the 1BR, keeps tugging at me. If we could be confident that we could fairly easily get good trades from the studio side of a 2BR lock-off, I might be willing to bite the bullet on the higher buy-in for the 2BR, even though I detest trading. So, when I saw some listings and TUG mentions of EOY OF 2BR Napili units selling for around $14K-$15K, that piqued my interest. But I don't want to buy into something that is a big hassle to reserve. Hence my questions. Is it really that hard to reserve the new towers with a floating week, and how do the studio portions trade? I guess I would have the same question about the 2BR units in the Original Towers as well. I have read that 1BR units in the Original Towers are not as difficult to grab at 12 months.

The DC Points hybrid bundle solves all those problems, since with an enrolled Maui week the points become 100% fungible and we can reconfigure/book exactly what we need. It's subject to availability, of course, but with points we would have the option to search in either the Original or Lahaina/Napili towers, or just book our owned 1BR week that was part of the bundle. I'm just having some angst over the likely $30K price for that bundle - and only having a EOY 1BR MOC week plus just 2000 more DC points to show for that size expenditure. We're also looking at buying a full-ownership vacation villa in Hilton Head and that $30K would come in handy there, too.

 

[TXTortoise]

Great summary. I asked the same question about ease of trading in(can't search for thread at the moment) and I think I got one response from multiweek (2+) owners on ease of trade.

Hope we hear more this time, as it's critical to a lot of decisions.

 

[toddc2]

I'm still somewhat on the fence on 1BR vs 2BR. What we'll need most often is probably the 1BR - and that's where my thinking started - but the simple fact that sometimes we might want a 2BR and the 2BR maintenance fees are only slightly more than the 1BR, keeps tugging at me. If we could be confident that we could fairly easily get good trades from the studio side of a 2BR lock-off, I might be willing to bite the bullet on the higher buy-in for the 2BR, even though I detest trading. So, when I saw some listings and TUG mentions of EOY OF 2BR Napili units selling for around $14K-$15K, that piqued my interest. But I don't want to buy into something that is a big hassle to reserve. Hence my questions. Is it really that hard to reserve the new towers with a floating week, and how do the studio portions trade? I guess I would have the same question about the 2BR units in the Original Towers as well. I have read that 1BR units in the Original Towers are not as difficult to grab at 12 months.

Go with the 2BR. The MF's aren't much higher, you can always lock it off if you don't need it, and trust me the extra space is great when the kids get older.

The Napili EOY units look ideal, especially in the sub-$15k price range.

Your questions on reservation hassle have no good answer: owning a single floating week at MOC more or less ensures some future frustration. I personally would not let that detract me from buying.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Todd

 

[GregT]

I know the question was posed with respect to Napili Towers, but just as a reminder, an OF unit could be in either Napili or Lahaina. Napili has Island View as its other view category and Lahaina has Mountain Garden and Ocean View -- with Ocean Front being the only category shared across the view categories.

Personally, I used to own two OF float weeks in the new towers and when I was not able to book them 13 months out for a Spring Break trip, I soured on the floating week. Granted, you have more flexibility in target weeks than I did, since I needed Spring Break week, but others (MoxJo?) have reported not getting their reservation 13 months out for whale season. I think it is a crapshoot and you have a higher probability of getting your reservation with points versus a traditional week.

Since you are already enrolled, why not rent points and save either the $15K or $30K when you want to go EOY?

Best,

Greg

 

[JoJo12]

I think it is a crapshoot and you have a higher probability of getting your reservation with points versus a traditional week.

Since you are already enrolled, why not rent points and save either the $15K or $30K when you want to go EOY?

Best,

Greg

As a Newbie who has read the stickies on Weeks and Points multiple times, and thanks to Jim, have a basic understanding of hybrid buying, why do you think points has a higher probability then a floating week? Is it because you think there is more inventory in the points bucket? It sounds like both could have future frustration as a possibility.

Thanks everyone for all of your guidance on this decision.

 

[csodjd]

So, when I saw some listings and TUG mentions of EOY OF 2BR Napili units selling for around $14K-$15K, that piqued my interest. But I don't want to buy into something that is a big hassle to reserve. Hence my questions. Is it really that hard to reserve the new towers with a floating week

For what it's worth...

I can't speak to the winter months, but can speak a bit to the summer, because I just dealt with it. Napili. 2 Bedroom, oceanfront. The goal was a Sat. Aug 4 check-in for one week, which I understand is a very popular time (after summer school, before school starts), and also a popular time with our Japanese colleagues/owners. It was the 12-month window. At 6:00am PST, Sat. Aug 4 check-in was not available. BUT, Sunday check-in was. Two different people were able to book Sunday Aug 5 for one week.

 

[m61376]

Greg- wasn't Joe's issue related more to getting President's week specifically (although I could be remembering wrong)?
Jim-
While not playing with a Maui studio, I can attest to some great trades with an Aruba studio- last year for a Dec. 2 BR Maui unit, in fact, and a few months outside of Flex.
Another consideration- we first bought when our youngest was a few years older than yours, but now fast forward 10 years and, well, what a difference a decade has made! Our older two grandsons have come down the last four years (since the eldest was 4 months and his brother 3 1/2 months) and our younger daughter and family (including our now 10 week old grandbaby) are talking about coming down next year. So while the 3BR even seemed superfluous at the time, now we may need more space. You're nearing a point in the not too far distant future where you may really appreciate a 2 BR and, in the interim, you can lock off or invite other family or friends to join you. Just food for thought.

 

[JIMinNC]

I know the question was posed with respect to Napili Towers, but just as a reminder, an OF unit could be in either Napili or Lahaina. Napili has Island View as its other view category and Lahaina has Mountain Garden and Ocean View -- with Ocean Front being the only category shared across the view categories.

Personally, I used to own two OF float weeks in the new towers and when I was not able to book them 13 months out for a Spring Break trip, I soured on the floating week. Granted, you have more flexibility in target weeks than I did, since I needed Spring Break week, but others (MoxJo?) have reported not getting their reservation 13 months out for whale season. I think it is a crapshoot and you have a higher probability of getting your reservation with points versus a traditional week.

Since you are already enrolled, why not rent points and save either the $15K or $30K when you want to go EOY?

Best,

Greg

Greg,

I posed the original question as specific to Napili because my understanding is that only Napili has EOY float units, and Lahaina is only annual. But your point is a good one, that the resulting reservation could be in either building, so the relevant metric is actually overall oceanfront availability between both new towers. Is it your understanding that the float units in the original towers have the same issues as you experienced in your time as a float owner in the new towers?

Just renting the points is certainly an option I've included in my thinking, since my experience shopping the points system has mirrored what you noted - that at least at 12 months, there is usually good MOC availability in the points system. While I'm comfortable renting smaller numbers of points to "top off" my needs as they fluctuate from year-to-year, I'm not quite there yet on relying on rentals as a primary strategy for somewhere I know I want to go on some sort of regular basis. Particularly somewhere like Maui that would require big rental transactions. My issues with that are:

• If we have a reservation made with a bunch of rented points (and it takes a bunch to book MOC) and then have to cancel the reservation, I have no ability to bank those transferred points to the following year as I would with owned points. When we had to cancel an MOC reservation in 2016 I was able to use some of those 7450 "freed up" points in 2016 and bank the remainder to 2017 for use this year. If all of those had been locked into 2016, as they would have been with rented points, I would have had a big problem.
• There have been a number of times recently when there were very few rental listings on VPE. That concerns me when looking at rentals as a primary strategy vs. a supplemental strategy. When I recently rented 875 points, there was only one person who had what I needed.
• The recent scammers that have discovered VPE concern me. While that can be solved by only dealing with known, trusted VPE members, when coupled with bullet #2 just above, further limiting the potential sellers heightens my concern that the points will not be there to rent when I need them.
• While I'm a big fan of DC points for flexibility and for going to different places, I'm still in the camp that says that for going to the same place on some sort of regular basis, owning a week there is the most cost effective. Using a $0.60/point rental cost (which seems to be the most prevalent price now on VPE) the 7450 points required for an MOC 2BR OF in the original towers would cost $4470 to rent, and the 8650 points required for a 2BR OF in the new towers would cost $5190 to rent. Compare that to the maintenance fee costs for those same weeks of $2200 (original towers) or $2500 (new towers). Even if you assume you have to give away the week if you want to sell in the future, it wouldn't take that many use-years to recoup the $13K to $15K cost of an EOY 2BR unit. If you assume as a resale purchase you could at least recoup half to two-thirds of your purchase cost when you sell, the breakeven is only about 3 use-years.

But that "weeks" ownership advantage is moot if you can't book what you own.

 

[JIMinNC]

Note, given Greg's point above that new tower bookings can wind up in either tower even if you own Napili and since the issue that I'm asking about really is applicable to either the new or original towers, I've changed the title of the thread and edited my OP accordingly.

 

[JoJo12]

The angst over reserving a MOC week in prime winter has me chasing a fixed week in Lahaina or three floating weeks in MOC to get ahead of the curve. .

Could you please explain how three floating weeks at MOC would get you ahead of the curve? As opposed to two weeks which still gets you into the 13 month window.

Edited to add: If you bought floating weeks now, you would be past the time where you could reserve scarce weeks for 2018, right?

 

[TXTortoise]

The way I understand it is while two weeks let's me book 13 months out, having the third week lets me start a week before those with two weeks, as long as we're booking consecutive weeks.

For instance, if I want Week 7. Presidents Week, with only one week I try to reserve 12 months prior. If I have two weeks I can try not only 13 months out, but actually 13 months from Week 6, then ask for Week 7 with my other week. Three weeks let's me start with Week 5, then 6 and 7. Now if I own six or more weeks think how early I can start to book a month or more on Maui.

At least that's the way I understand it.

Now if I only need two weeks, that's a lot of MF to pay for three or more....unless I want to rent the others.

If I was buying floating weeks now for 2018, my offer would be dependent on what 2018 week the seller has already reserved or can get. The last one I bought had reserved 27 Jan 2018, so that worked for me. If you want summer, not so much.

 

[JIMinNC]

I just had a thought...it might be more meaningful for my situation to get feedback on the winter reservation availability question from Maui Ocean Club SINGLE WEEK owners who have to reserve at 12 months rather than 13. Either original towers owners or new towers.

 

[drlee]

Maui in the wintertime months Jan-Mar are very popular. Lots of people want these weeks, in both old and new units. There are many strategies to securing a week in the timeframe you want. Having consecutive weeks to book, at 13 months increases the odds. If the first week is not prime (ie island or mountain view) that increases the odds, as second weeks will book earlier than single 12 month bookings. Also, considering the newer towers....don't count on a particular tower having fixed or float weeks in original inventory. Marriott will place you in the proper view category in either tower, whether the original unit was fixed or not, or whether it was sold as EOY or not. The trick is to get your reservation when you want. It's not clear how destination points fit into the inventory situation, as points owners don't own at MOC, so I'm not sure how weeks get into the points inventory. Trades in these months is tough, but do happen. I've traded into MOC several times using an Aruba week. Lock offs work for us when we bring family. In years we don't, we lengthen our vacation We could easily trade or rent the extra space, but choose to use it instead. If you're considering buying recommend a 2br whether eoy or annual.

 

[JoJo12]

...don't count on a particular tower having fixed or float weeks in original inventory. Marriott will place you in the proper view category in either tower, whether the original unit was fixed or not, or whether it was sold as EOY or not

As I understand, the above statement does not apply to someone who owns a fixed week/fixed unit deed in the newer towers. Right? Also, do you have any experience with how difficult floating summer weeks 26-33 are compared to the winter months?

 

[taffy19]

I just had a thought...it might be more meaningful for my situation to get feedback on the winter reservation availability question from Maui Ocean Club SINGLE WEEK owners who have to reserve at 12 months rather than 13. Either original towers owners or new towers.

We are a single week owner at the MOC in the Lahaina Villas and would like to reply to your request but I don't know the exact answer. If you occupy your whole fixed week/unit, you will stay in your deeded timeshare. If you lock-off a fixed week/unit, you no longer deal with the Marriott direct but have to use the II Corporate account so I assume that you could be put in the Lahaina or Napili towers for the adjacent week. I have no idea how easy that may be.

We tried three years on a row to make our 2 BR unit last two consecutive weeks but didn't succeed because we needed a specific week but that was at the time that the Destination Club was introduced and II told us that our chances were very slim. Before the DC club was introduced, our exchange came through within 24 hours because Marriott put their inventory in II at that time but now they put their inventory in the DC instead.

I doubt that many MM1 owners put their fixed week/units or float/floats in II but rent them out or deposit them in the DC to go to a different location because of the high point value we receive. If I were you, I would call them to find out or you may still hear from another single fixed week/owner as they are out there. We haven't exchanged in years.

 

[JIMinNC]

We are a single week owner at the MOC in the Lahaina Villas and would like to reply to your request but I don't know the exact answer. If you occupy your whole fixed week/unit, you will stay in your deeded timeshare. If you lock-off a fixed week/unit, you no longer deal with the Marriott direct but have to use the II Corporate account so I assume that you could be put in the Lahaina or Napili towers for the adjacent week. I have no idea how easy that may be.

We tried three years on a row to make our 2 BR unit last two consecutive weeks but didn't succeed because we needed a specific week but that was at the time that the Destination Club was introduced and II told us that our chances were very slim. Before the DC club was introduced, our exchange came through within 24 hours because Marriott put their inventory in II at that time but now they put their inventory in the DC instead.

I doubt that many MM1 owners put their fixed week/units or float/floats in II but rent them out or deposit them in the DC to go to a different location because of the high point value we receive. If I were you, I would call them to find out or you may still hear from another single fixed week/owner as they are out there. We haven't exchanged in years.

I think I may not have been 100% clear about my question. I'm not asking about locking off a fixed unit for two weeks at MOC. (I think TXTortoise may have been the one asking about fixed weeks.)

My question is specific to how difficult is it for a single week EOY FLOATING owner at MOC (in either the original or new towers, either 2BR OF or 1BR OF/OV) to book their owned week in the popular Jan-Mar period? We would not need a specific week in most cases. I have no issue booking right when the 12 month window opens. I've just read all the stories about multiweek owners stringing together weeks and don't want to buy something that is frustrating to use.

My secondary question is if we buy a 2BR instead of a 1BR, and in some years lock off the studio portion (we would use the 1BR part at MOC), can the studio get decent II trades to other Marriotts in 1BR or larger units without waiting for last minute trades?

I hope that clarifies.

 

[drlee]

As I understand, the above statement does not apply to someone who owns a fixed week/fixed unit deed in the newer towers. Right? Also, do you have any experience with how difficult floating summer weeks 26-33 are compared to the winter months?

What we were told by a salesperson we trust is that not all weeks designated as fixed were actually sold that way. Your statement is true for actual fixed week owners, but many of those units shown as fixed are actually not. Both floating week people (us) and DP people (pool talk) have ended up on ninth floor Napili for example. I have no experience with summer weeks, as we always book in Jan-Feb-Mar.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[csodjd]

My question is specific to how difficult is it for a single week EOY FLOATING owner at MOC (in either the original or new towers, either 2BR OF or 1BR OF/OV) to book their owned week in the popular Jan-Mar period? We would not need a specific week in most cases. I have no issue booking right when the 12 month window opens. I've just read all the stories about multiweek owners stringing together weeks and don't want to buy something that is frustrating to use.

I'm in much the same boat. I'm buying now exactly that. If it turns out to be hard to get what I want reserved, my strategy will likely be to purchase a second week somewhere at lower cost (maybe Kauai, or MOV island view in the old building) to get me access to the 13 month reservation window, reserve them both, and rent the other (or use it for grown kids to join us). I may choose to do that anyway.

 

[TXTortoise]

From historical threads we know that a number of units in Lahaina were originally deeded as fixed, but subsequently changed and sold as float. I'm not aware of that happening in Napili though, but certainly possible.

For those that have ended up in a 'fixed week' unit, other than in the above case, wouldn't that just mean the owners of the fixed weeks deposited for points that year?

That said, when weeks are converted by points owners is that week available to only floating weeks owners booking through Marriott, only points owners booking, or both?

 

[GaryDouglas]

..., my strategy will likely be to purchase a second week somewhere at lower cost (maybe Kauai, or MOV island view in the old building) to get me access to the 13 month reservation window, reserve them both, and rent the other (or use it for grown kids to join us). I may choose to do that anyway.

You may find that having only 7 days at MOC is not long enough and having to pick up and take another plane to another location with all the trauma of going through another airport... you may find that two EOY weeks will be to your advantage at MOC. Increases your odds of getting your desired week, being there two weeks has its advantages, and if you get the 2 BR, you can be there up to 4 weeks, which come in handy at retirement age.

 

[csodjd]

You may find that having only 7 days at MOC is not long enough and having to pick up and take another plane to another location with all the trauma of going through another airport... you may find that two EOY weeks will be to your advantage at MOC. Increases your odds of getting your desired week, being there two weeks has its advantages, and if you get the 2 BR, you can be there up to 4 weeks, which come in handy at retirement age.

True. My wife thinks 7 months isn't long enough. <g> But I also have two annual weeks ocean view in the Lagoon Tower in Oahu. A short Hawaiian Air hop is pretty easy and I can go to/from LAX from either Oahu or Maui, so I'm actually thinking of two trips over annually most years and being able to mix things up a bit. It'll be interesting to see how EOY pricing evolves over the next few years. What does seem obvious to me though, at least for me because I have the two weeks at the Lagoon Tower, is that two EOY at MOC will be better than one annual at MOC. The benefit of the 13 month reservation window, and lots of mix and match possibilities.

 

[hangloose]

My thoughts.

First, 7 days on Hawaii is generally not long enough....unless you are flying from U.S. West coast. Since you are in/out of LAX, the 5-6 hr flight makes a week long vacation doable. If flying from anywhere else, plan to stay at least 10 days.

Second, we struggled with this same question. If you buy a single MOC week, can you consistently get a high demand week during peak season at 12 months out. While it sounds like it can happen if you are a little flexible on dates and/or day of the week, there is more concern expressed on TUG around the inability to do so rather than ability to. This made me too nervous to purchase a single MOC float week. As a result, we are in process of picking up 1 MOC EY week and 1 MKO EY week. We will plan to book both consecutive at 13 months, increasing our odds of success...while not guaranteeing our odds. We may also lock-off these weeks if needed, allowing us to book beyond 13 months out...which further increases on chances. In the end, it's a crap shoot. While I'd love to have a fixed week, that just doesn't work for our schedules now. It is also less financially palatable.

Third, if you only plan to go to MVC MOC EOY for 2 weeks, I agree that perhaps purchasing two EOY MOC weeks may be better than one annual. This allows you in the even or odd years to attempt to reserve 13 months in advance of your travel dates. It may cost slightly more in upfront purchase price for two EOY weeks vs one EY week, but being able to book at 13 months might be worth it. The other option..is purchase 2 EY weeks...and just rent the years you don't use. You can likely make over your maintenance fees at MOC.

Lastly, think about whether you want MOC old suites or new villas. Based on what I read on TUG, the old suites have a higher chance for a reservation at 13 months out than the newer villas. Some of this may depend on view, but something to consider.