RCI increases for Points Transactions!!!

[CaliDave]

I just tried to do a PFD transfer of a couple of SA weeks. I was told that since they are 2006 weeks, I can't do it until 2006. I never had that problem before. So now it will cost to transfer them

Thats ridiculous.. So what if you own week 1 2006.. you can't deposit it?

 

[Fern Modena]

I emailed feedback@rci.com to see what they say, and/or if they will help me by transferring the weeks.

The VG said it only applied to SA weeks, but it still makes no sense, cause as you say, anyone owning weeks one thru about 14 would then be too late for full credit upon deposit.

Fern

 

[taffy19]

These ideas you have for PACs and more oversight and/or regulation are not the answer. Believe it or not, the real answer is much easier than that. All YOU (or any of us for that matter) need to do is pick the exchange companies that best meets your needs. The rest will take care of itself. That's the beauty of a competitive, free market. The invisible hand of capitalism will keep the profit maximizers in check better than any government agency can.

Let's keep it this way.

 

[taffy19]

Don’t you think the timeshare industry has done such a good job of Smoke and Mirrors (an illusion to convince and manipulate) that they can tells us anything and we believe them because we want to believe them.

We are all looking for that Dream Vacation (an illusion) that we want to be hoodwinked into buying that dream.

Timesharing is become more about show than substance.


Walt

I agree but most newbies have to find out the hard way too like we did. I only hope that people read here before they buy. It is possible today if they only search a little bit.

 

[taffy19]

Thats ridiculous.. So what if you own week 1 2006.. you can't deposit it?

Why give them to RCI if there are Independents who will take these weeks? You do not believe how many emails we receive from RCI asking us to deposit. No way will we deposit weeks if RCI is renting them out. Period.

 

[Cayuga]

I guess you haven't heard that Cendant is breaking up into 4 different companies. They are not a monopoly and they have real competition. By becoming a big conglomerate of travel and real estate, they actually reduced the value of the company, so they are breaking it up.

Regarding profit maximization, that's what ALL companies try to do. Some companies are better than others at the PR campaign to make you believe they care a whole lot about you. Don't get me wrong, they do care about customers. They just care about profits (and their own bonuses) more.

These ideas you have for PACs and more oversight and/or regulation are not the answer. Believe it or not, the real answer is much easier than that. All YOU (or any of us for that matter) need to do is pick the exchange companies that best meets your needs. The rest will take care of itself. That's the beauty of a competitive, free market. The invisible hand of capitalism will keep the profit maximizers in check better than any government agency can.

**************************************
BocaBum;

There is an old saying that goes something like this:"rattlesnakes don't commit suicide." Cendant is not "breaking up." It is restructuring its corporate holdings to best position itself for the road ahead. And no, they are not a classic monopoly (yet), but their practices are "monopoly-like" because of the disproportionate influence they have in the industry. Except for perhaps Interval, the rest of the field is a useful but largely side show. In fact, it is in RCI's best interest to keep this appearance of competition so that it stays difficult to accuse of them of being monopolistic.

There is also the old story that Mahatma Gandhi was once asked what he thought about "western civilization." Paraphrasing a bit, his reponse was " I think it would be a good idea." Likewise, a "competitive,free market" has been largely a capitalist myth. It's like our time honored notions of "democracy" in this country.

There is hardly a business sector in this country that has not required, when they've reached some level of maturity, appropriate regulation and oversight to keep it righteous. Karl Marx's critique of capitalism is useful here but I don't have time to fully expound on it!

As far as the "invisible hand of capitalism keeping the profit maximizers in check", I have no idea what that means. Over the last few months, I'm sure you've noticed, we saw an unprecedented run up in gas prices. Exxon/Mobil (now one company) set a corporate record for profits in a fiscal quarter. This occured despite a so-called shortage of supplies and/or alleged disruptions in refining capacity. It was so obscene, even pro-business Congress felt compelled to stage some show hearings to make it look like our government was protecting us from these predatory forces.

But you are right in one regard, the answers do lie with us. If we stopped buying gas for a short period time and carpooled, took public transportation, etc. a profound message would be sent to those who seek to take advantage of us. But we live in a culture of fear and individuality where the principle of "divide and conquer" works so well.

 

[JudyS]

...These ideas you have for PACs and more oversight and/or regulation are not the answer. Believe it or not, the real answer is much easier than that. All YOU (or any of us for that matter) need to do is pick the exchange companies that best meets your needs. The rest will take care of itself. That's the beauty of a competitive, free market. The invisible hand of capitalism will keep the profit maximizers in check better than any government agency can.

In theory, competition should force exchange companies to charge reasonable prices and offer good customer service. In practice, this will only happen if the average timeshare owner knows that alternative exchange companies exist -- and I don't see that happening any time soon.

I doubt that any sort of government regulation is going to help timeshare owners out with the exchange companies. It's not that I believe government regulation never works, it's that timeshare owners don't have anywhere near enough influence as a group to get regulations enacted in their favor.

Now, it does seem to me that there is one way timeshare owners could get some control over Cendant's new spinoff company (containing resort rentals and RCI), and that's if enough timeshare owners bought stock in the new company that will control RCI. It sounds like this company will have a market capitalization of about $200 million, but presumably most of the stock will be owned by institutional investors who pay little attention to the interal workings of the company. If 10,000 timeshare owners each bought $2,000 worth of stock, timeshare owners might have a big say in how RCI was run. We have over 8,000 registered users on this board, and I'd certainly be willing to buy in if others did. Heck, if we got enough timeshare owners together, we could run RCI.

(As an aside, isn't it interesting that Cendant's spinoff plan calls for RCI and Cendant's resort rentals to be part of the same company, rather than putting them into different companies?)

 

[bogey21]

For each of us. the key is learning how to best use the system whatever it is. Or to avoid using it if that works to our best advantage.
.

Well Said!!

GEORGE

 

[taffy19]

**************************************
As far as the "invisible hand of capitalism keeping the profit maximizers in check", I have no idea what that means. Over the last few months, I'm sure you've noticed, we saw an unprecedented run up in gas prices. Exxon/Mobil (now one company) set a corporate record for profits in a fiscal quarter. This occured despite a so-called shortage of supplies and/or alleged disruptions in refining capacity. It was so obscene, even pro-business Congress felt compelled to stage some show hearings to make it look like our government was protecting us from these predatory forces

Have you heard of the big, secretive "hedge funds"? They may be the cause of all this but we do not know what is going on behind the scenes really and it may be "Multi National" too just like the companies, that are pushing "globalization".

 

[BocaBum99]

**************************************
BocaBum;

There is an old saying that goes something like this:"rattlesnakes don't commit suicide." Cendant is not "breaking up." It is restructuring its corporate holdings to best position itself for the road ahead. And no, they are not a classic monopoly (yet), but their practices are "monopoly-like" because of the disproportionate influence they have in the industry. Except for perhaps Interval, the rest of the field is a useful but largely side show. In fact, it is in RCI's best interest to keep this appearance of competition so that it stays difficult to accuse of them of being monopolistic.

That is wrong. Cendant is breaking up into different companies with different stock tickers, different boards of directors and different management teams.

The bottom line is that each individual is free to leave RCI and go somewhere else if they so choose. Most RCI members appear to be happy. I know about all of the practices they are pursuing and I still use them. That means I get value out of the system. So, do others.

If people are getting ripped off by RCI, it's because THEY choose to not be educated about it.

 

[BocaBum99]

In theory, competition should force exchange companies to charge reasonable prices and offer good customer service. In practice, this will only happen if the average timeshare owner knows that alternative exchange companies exist -- and I don't see that happening any time soon.

I doubt that any sort of government regulation is going to help timeshare owners out with the exchange companies. It's not that I believe government regulation never works, it's that timeshare owners don't have anywhere near enough influence as a group to get regulations enacted in their favor.

Now, it does seem to me that there is one way timeshare owners could get some control over Cendant's new spinoff company (containing resort rentals and RCI), and that's if enough timeshare owners bought stock in the new company that will control RCI. It sounds like this company will have a market capitalization of about $200 million, but presumably most of the stock will be owned by institutional investors who pay little attention to the interal workings of the company. If 10,000 timeshare owners each bought $2,000 worth of stock, timeshare owners might have a big say in how RCI was run. We have over 8,000 registered users on this board, and I'd certainly be willing to buy in if others did. Heck, if we got enough timeshare owners together, we could run RCI.

(As an aside, isn't it interesting that Cendant's spinoff plan calls for RCI and Cendant's resort rentals to be part of the same company, rather than putting them into different companies?)

Judy,

Two things. First of all, it is the average timeshare owners accountability to be educated about the products they own. If they don't get educated with free public material such as exists here on TUG, then that is their freedom to do so. If, all of a sudden, the average timesharer decided to get educated, things would change very quickly. Since that is not likely to happen, RCI's activities will likely continue.

Second, forget about buying RCI back. It would be easier and cheaper to start your own exchange company alternative. And, you would have a chance at changing the fundamentally flawed weeks exchange model.

 

[BocaBum99]

**************************************
BocaBum;

There is also the old story that Mahatma Gandhi was once asked what he thought about "western civilization." Paraphrasing a bit, his reponse was " I think it would be a good idea." Likewise, a "competitive,free market" has been largely a capitalist myth. It's like our time honored notions of "democracy" in this country.

There is hardly a business sector in this country that has not required, when they've reached some level of maturity, appropriate regulation and oversight to keep it righteous. Karl Marx's critique of capitalism is useful here but I don't have time to fully expound on it!

As far as the "invisible hand of capitalism keeping the profit maximizers in check", I have no idea what that means. Over the last few months, I'm sure you've noticed, we saw an unprecedented run up in gas prices. Exxon/Mobil (now one company) set a corporate record for profits in a fiscal quarter. This occured despite a so-called shortage of supplies and/or alleged disruptions in refining capacity. It was so obscene, even pro-business Congress felt compelled to stage some show hearings to make it look like our government was protecting us from these predatory forces.

But you are right in one regard, the answers do lie with us. If we stopped buying gas for a short period time and carpooled, took public transportation, etc. a profound message would be sent to those who seek to take advantage of us. But we live in a culture of fear and individuality where the principle of "divide and conquer" works so well.

I guess you didn't hear the news. Gorbachev tore down that wall.

 

[Cayuga]

That is wrong. Cendant is breaking up into different companies with different stock tickers, different boards of directors and different management teams.

The bottom line is that each individual is free to leave RCI and go somewhere else if they so choose. Most RCI members appear to be happy. I know about all of the practices they are pursuing and I still use them. That means I get value out of the system. So, do others.

If people are getting ripped off by RCI, it's because THEY choose to not be educated about it.

Boca;

Cendant's "breaking up" is an old ploy. Go read the history of The Standard Oil Company and other corporate goliaths.
As far as "RCI members appear to be happy." perhaps your right. They do APPEAR to be satisfied, because many are unsuspecting and do not know any better. So, it allows the more savvy ones, like you and I, to extract more than the average value out of our investments while others do not.
But isn't that the true nature of a capitalist machine - a few profit at the expense of the masses! The same dynamics operate at the global level as well. And then we mask our privileges/advantages around self righteous and self serving platitudes!

 

[Walt]

Both Points and Weeks have Flaws

Judy,

Two things. First of all, it is the average timeshare owners accountability to be educated about the products they own. If they don't get educated with free public material such as exists here on TUG, then that is their freedom to do so. If, all of a sudden, the average timesharer decided to get educated, things would change very quickly. Since that is not likely to happen, RCI's activities will likely continue.

Second, forget about buying RCI back. It would be easier and cheaper to start your own exchange company alternative. And, you would have a chance at changing the fundamentally flawed weeks exchange model.

Both Points and Weeks have flaws and strengths. In your opinion could you list the strengths and flaws of both Points and Weeks?

I think one of the greatest strengths with Weeks is KISS (Keep it simple stupid).

The non Tugger and even the Tugger can less likely be fooled with Weeks vs Points. With the Exchange Company holding all of the cards (because they make all of the rule), the Points owner is at the Exchanges Company's Mercy! I don't think this is as true with the Weeks owners. The Weeks owners still have to make the deposit. There is no automatic deposit.

I think the points owners are seeing, where you were sold advantages such as short term stays, and points programs for airlines, car rentals, etc. And now because of the COST of an exchange there is no advantage.

Walt

 

[timeos2]

Weeks may be simple but not workable

[/B]


Both Points and Weeks have flaws and strengths. In your opinion could you list the strengths and flaws of both Points and Weeks?

I think one of the greatest strengths with Weeks is KISS (Keep it simple stupid).

The non Tugger and even the Tugger can less likely be fooled with Weeks vs Points. With the Exchange Company holding all of the cards (because they make all of the rule), the Points owner is at the Exchanges Company's Mercy! I don't think this is as true with the Weeks owners. The Weeks owners still have to make the deposit. There is no automatic deposit.


Walt

Walt - Other than the ability to choose if your week is deposited or not, and Points for Deposit users also have that choice in points, both systems are under total control of the exchange company for weeks and points. In points you have a fighting chance of getting what you desire as they have published the cost (in points) and if you have the correct number of points & see the time it's yours. You can also borrow or rent points if you are short. In weeks you ask and the exchange company, behind the scenes and with no way to confirm on your end, says you can get weeks x, y z or there are no matches. You don't know if you just missed, if a slightly "stronger" trader would have obtained what you wanted, you don't even know what the value was they assigned to your deposit. It is the very "simplicity" of a week for week that dooms the process. Hardly any two weeks are acually equal in value and there is no way to adjust for that in week for week trades. The prevailing system of VEP and trade valuation are secret and make the weeks system a bad bet for most owners. Add in the incentive the weeks traders have to undervalue your deposit and over value others so they can be "surplus" time available to rent rather than trade and weeks is a losing proposition. Again you have no way of knowing what they have done or how they do it. Not an acceptable procedure for me.

 

[myip]

I just tried to do a PFD transfer of a couple of SA weeks. I was told that since they are 2006 weeks, I can't do it until 2006. I never had that problem before. So now it will cost to transfer them

I just did a PFD for a 2006 SA. It didn't have any problem.

 

[brucecz]

I just deposited three 2006 CMV UDI weeks for PFD worth a bit over 78,000 RCI Points. They were one January 2006 week and 2 February 2006 weeks. That saved us $78.

I going to check around and see if we can not grab a few more CMV UDI 2006 white weeks (maybe worth another 100,000 or so RCI Points) to beat the 2006 January first dead line later this month.

Bruce

I emailed feedback@rci.com to see what they say, and/or if they will help me by transferring the weeks.

The VG said it only applied to SA weeks, but it still makes no sense, cause as you say, anyone owning weeks one thru about 14 would then be too late for full credit upon deposit.

Fern

 

[Carolinian]

RCI is a quasi-monoply at resorts that are affiliated only with RCI and do not make their members aware of the independents.

We could all do a lot to further competition in the exchange industry by asking our HOA's to help inform all of their members about the independents and how to contact them.

There are consumer protection laws already on the books that could be utilized by a savvy state Attorney General to start turning over the rocks at RCI in a prelitigation investigation using their subpoena powers. Timeshare owners just need to get the attention of one state AG out of the fifty.

There is also an area of state law that could be modified to curtail some of RCI's more slimy activities. In most, if not all, states developers in sales are required to provide disclosure statements to buyers from any exchange company with which they have an affiliation contract. Those statutes could be modified to require, for example, very detailed disclosure of exchange company rental activity, and to put the fact that it rents exchange deposits to non-members in big letters on the front page of the disclosure guide. I bet that developers would see to it that such rentals ended quickly!

In theory, competition should force exchange companies to charge reasonable prices and offer good customer service. In practice, this will only happen if the average timeshare owner knows that alternative exchange companies exist -- and I don't see that happening any time soon.

I doubt that any sort of government regulation is going to help timeshare owners out with the exchange companies. It's not that I believe government regulation never works, it's that timeshare owners don't have anywhere near enough influence as a group to get regulations enacted in their favor.

Now, it does seem to me that there is one way timeshare owners could get some control over Cendant's new spinoff company (containing resort rentals and RCI), and that's if enough timeshare owners bought stock in the new company that will control RCI. It sounds like this company will have a market capitalization of about $200 million, but presumably most of the stock will be owned by institutional investors who pay little attention to the interal workings of the company. If 10,000 timeshare owners each bought $2,000 worth of stock, timeshare owners might have a big say in how RCI was run. We have over 8,000 registered users on this board, and I'd certainly be willing to buy in if others did. Heck, if we got enough timeshare owners together, we could run RCI.

(As an aside, isn't it interesting that Cendant's spinoff plan calls for RCI and Cendant's resort rentals to be part of the same company, rather than putting them into different companies?)

 

[Carolinian]

[/B]


Both Points and Weeks have flaws and strengths. In your opinion could you list the strengths and flaws of both Points and Weeks?

I think one of the greatest strengths with Weeks is KISS (Keep it simple stupid).

The non Tugger and even the Tugger can less likely be fooled with Weeks vs Points. With the Exchange Company holding all of the cards (because they make all of the rule), the Points owner is at the Exchanges Company's Mercy! I don't think this is as true with the Weeks owners. The Weeks owners still have to make the deposit. There is no automatic deposit.

I think the points owners are seeing, where you were sold advantages such as short term stays, and points programs for airlines, car rentals, etc. And now because of the COST of an exchange there is no advantage.

Walt

1) Weeks has more flexibility in how long in advance you can make an exchange (2 years vs. 10 months). With Points, the reservation window is too late to get an ff ticket in many instances if you are going to a popular destination at a popular time.

2) The exchange mechanism of Weeks is more flexible with trading power constantly adjusting for ever changing supply and demand factors, compared to the frozen numbers of Points. Weeks is also flexible enough to give the Thanksgiving bump to week 46 in the years it is Thanksgiving, while Points is so rigid that it always gives it to week 47 whether or not it is really Thanksgiving week.

3) The Weeks trading power calculation can differentiate between an August week 34 at the beach and a late October week 43. Points does not have that flexibility and gives them the same point value (OBX example but Points is riddled with similar situations), a ripoff for week 34 and a windfall for week 43. Points may have some peripheral aspects of flexiblity, but it is Weeks that has the more flexible exchange mechanism.

Just a few of the superior aspects of Weeks.

 

[short]

Weeks disadvantages

1) Weeks has more flexibility in how long in advance you can make an exchange (2 years vs. 10 months). With Points, the reservation window is too late to get an ff ticket in many instances if you are going to a popular destination at a popular time.

2) The exchange mechanism of Weeks is more flexible with trading power constantly adjusting for ever changing supply and demand factors, compared to the frozen numbers of Points. Weeks is also flexible enough to give the Thanksgiving bump to week 46 in the years it is Thanksgiving, while Points is so rigid that it always gives it to week 47 whether or not it is really Thanksgiving week.

3) The Weeks trading power calculation can differentiate between an August week 34 at the beach and a late October week 43. Points does not have that flexibility and gives them the same point value (OBX example but Points is riddled with similar situations), a ripoff for week 34 and a windfall for week 43. Points may have some peripheral aspects of flexiblity, but it is Weeks that has the more flexible exchange mechanism.

Just a few of the superior aspects of Weeks.

Your reasons you list are the same reasons that points are superior.

1. Weeks exchanges require you to decide on your vacation plans way earlier than the average traveler has any idea of their travel plan. Most exchangers do not fly to their destination and even fewer use frequent flyer miles. A two year exchange window benefits a few at the expense of many.

2. The variable nature of weeks allows blue studios to trade into red 2 bedrooms in those very same beach weeks if the weeks has the right group priority or can hit on a bulk space bank.

3. Weeks has a more restrictive trading formula since you have no idea if you cannot get a week because it is not there or because you week is 1 percent short of trading power. Weeks trading formula gives you no change back for your week if you trade down in size or season.

Just the flip side of your arguement.

Short

 

[cclendinen]

They did a 2005 PDF for me.

I just tried to do a PFD transfer of a couple of SA weeks. I was told that since they are 2006 weeks, I can't do it until 2006. I never had that problem before. So now it will cost to transfer them

Fern, I just did my PDF for a 2006 week. I did not have a problem and because I did it before 2006, I don't have to pay the fee.

 

[Sandy]

How did some of you learn about this $26 fee to deposit for points? I just called RCI points and they have no clue.

I don't want to miss a deadline, but should I rush to deposit just to save $26? If I keep the week available, it gives me the opportunity to look at alternative exchanges that do not show up on the points side of the website. At least until the last minute. (BTW- what is the latest that I can deposit PFD without losing any points)

what do others think?

 

[rickandcindy23]

A new points guide named Troy LeBlanc told me.

He is not a new guide, he is a "new points member" guide. Anyway, I posted it first because he told me of the changes. A points trade for a week will now cost $99 too.

I get into the program, the price goes up. It is my fault.

 

[Giselherr]

A plea for elucidation

This increase would raise our cost to fly RT to Hawaii using 3-4 white weeks per ticket from about $199 -$250 to $277-$350 per ticket. [unquote]

How can this be? Are you not paying maintenance fees for these weeks?
I am more and more confused about this points business.

 

[Giselherr]

It is the very "simplicity" of a week for week that dooms the process. Hardly any two weeks are acually equal in value and there is no way to adjust for that in week for week trades.

But If an available week is acceptable to me in exchange for my week being acceptable to the other party, isn't the concept of equality in value actually fulfilled?