Recent Destination Club News

Kagehitokiri2 · Jan 23, 2011

http://www.airbnb.com/rooms/15667?price=1200
huh...

Desties · Jan 24, 2011

willmyclubmakeit said:
any idea what happened to ultimatemembers.org as is down today? Is there another DC4MS deal happening?

The domain was up for renewal on the 21st. It's quite possible that the owner of the site forgot to renew it or had no intention of renewing it. Either way, it seems as if somebody else snagged it and just set up a parking page.

It's a pity. The site was largely dead as members came to grips with their unfortunate fate, but there was clearly value to it as a living lesson.

I just wrote about the difficulty of having a standalone DC forum tonight.

Kagehitokiri2 · Jan 24, 2011

i think the issue is just awareness, which was not helped by bankruptcies and DOAs

http://destinationclubnews.com/News_Equity_Estates_Announces_Newest_Destinations.php incl pics

http://www.sherpareport.com/destination-clubs/m-private-dues-lower.html
http://destinationclubnews.com/News_2010_Recap_M_Private_Residences.php

During 2010, we decreased our debt by $400,000," said John Beckel, General Manager of M Private Residences.

Since we introduced the program that allows our members to sell on the open market, we have facilitated 12 transfers

end of 2008 ~ $6MM debt
2009 - ?

TarheelTraveler · Jan 29, 2011

Good to see M reduce their debt. That has been a huge expense for DCs and as we know, was a primary driver of the HCC, Lusso, UE and other DC bankruptcies. IMHO, the loss of sales could have maybe been sustained by the clubs if they didn't have the crushing debt (and instead had used deposits as intended to buy real estate). It never made long-term economic sense to me that the clubs with the lowest dues often had the highest debt. Still have some of that today, but it's not as pronounced now.

Kagehitokiri2 · Jan 29, 2011

they do still have high debt cap.

i assume the new RK club is like hideaways, with "no debt when full."

luxus/rocksure being only ones with no debt i can understand.

but AK is only one with actual debt cap.

why do others bother with cap when its 25% > 30%?

TarheelTraveler · Jan 29, 2011

Some non-equity clubs were 70-80% debt, and when the bottom fell out, the debt became 100%.

I don't have a fundamental problem with debt in a DC, so long as it's actually paid for by dues/investors, rather than just being used to cover up too low of dues, too low of deposits and/or too high of operating expenses. As long as you had room to borrow, you could cover up a lot of sins using debt. When you don't have debt, it's harder to cover up the problems IMHO.

It is nice to now see a number of clubs fully covering expenses with dues, including M from what has been said.

Kagehitokiri2 · Jan 29, 2011

if EE used debt cap, theyd have substantial dues increase.

DestiFan i think it was said they discussed this along with upcoming management fee. (with prospects)

TarheelTraveler · Feb 3, 2011

ER sales update:

http://www.fractionallife.com/news_...0_per_cent_increase_in_sales_for_20101363.asp

"...Exclusive Resorts has announced that sales of new memberships and membership upgrades totalled $66 million in 2010, an increase of more than 50 per cent from the previous year...."

"...The company says it has built a $100 million annual revenue stream...."

http://www.sherpareport.com/destination-clubs/sales-increase-exclusive-resorts.html

"...The club told us that over 200 people joined and over 130 members upgraded their membership plans last year...."

Read more: Sales Increase 50 Percent at Exclusive Resorts - SherpaReport

EE sales update:

http://www.destinationclubnews.com/News_2010_Recap_Equity_Estates.php

"...For the third consecutive year, Equity Estates grew by more than 50%, adding 37.5 full membership equivalents during 2010. In all, 44 new families joined during the year with 25 coming on board in the last quarter alone, bringing their total membership to just under 100...."

TarheelTraveler · Feb 3, 2011

ER

Additional ER link:

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/bu...w-memberships-upgrades-in-2010-115000899.html

"...The private Denver-based company reports an annual revenue stream of $100 million. It didn't disclose net income for 2010, but CEO Jeff Potter says earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization were positive in 2010.

The company has tried to keep costs low. Over the last three years, layoffs have affected about 25 per cent of its work force."

NeilGoBlue · Feb 3, 2011

Yes,

Those pesky little things like,

Interest and depreciation don't add up to a lot.... lol...

TarheelTraveler · Feb 7, 2011

Inspirato

Inspirato:

http://www.tnooz.com/2011/02/04/tlabs/tlabs-showcase-inspirato/

"What financial support did you have to launch the business?

We raised $5 million in startup capital from individual investors."

"...We have sold more than 70 memberships in the last month, all through word-of-mouth referrals from other members.

Did you have customers validate your idea before investors?

We raised seed capital from individual investors based largely on the pedigree of our founders, who created the largest and most successful destination club, Exclusive Resorts, and had a proven track record (more than 100,000 vacations delivered) of being able to deliver the kind of service experience affluent travelers expect, along with a sustainable business model.

What is the business AND revenue model, strategy for profitability?

We earn revenue in three ways: initiation fees (introductory priced at $9,500), annual renewal fees ($2,500) and variable nightly rates. We have built a sustainable business model that requires very little capital upfront and is based on a great deal of knowledge of the market we are serving...."

TarheelTraveler · Feb 15, 2011

Luxus

http://www.fractionallife.com/news_borgo_di_vagli_welcomes_canadian_investment_group_luxus1376.asp

"Italian fractional real estate development Borgo di Vagli, a fully restored 14th century Tuscan hamlet, has seen one of its units sold to a Canadian investment company.

Il salto di gatto, a restored two-bedroom two-bathroom residence, has been bought by LUXUS Investment Group..."

Kagehitokiri2 · Feb 18, 2011

moved......

Kagehitokiri2 · Feb 19, 2011

i brought up planned four seasons and residences at disney world on DC4MS, hoping four seasons would manage.

now disney is doing residences, and im not sure whats going on with (still mentioned) four seasons. oddly, disney is not doing hotel rentals (giving up insane revenues?) with min lease being 6 months. so presumably DC ownership is out.

TarheelTraveler · Feb 28, 2011

Interesting post on DCNews Forums:

http://destinationclubnews.com/forum/general-discussion/ypo-and-destination-clubs/

"A number of destination clubs are having events for the Young Presidents Organization Global Leadership Conference in Denver this week. Over the years, Quintess has brought in over 40 YPO members to their ultra-luxury club and will be hosting daily and nightly events for the GLC. Exclusive Resorts has been giving away a trip every day of the conference at their booth. Mike Shelton, who is overseeing the growth of the Abercrombie & Kent Residence Club, is on a flight right now to attend and will be sitting down with us Friday evening to discuss the various programs that the club has in place...."

So approximately 10% of Quintess members are also YPO members? That's pretty remarkable.

RLG · Feb 28, 2011

TarheelTraveler said:
Mike Shelton, who is overseeing the growth of the Abercrombie & Kent Residence Club.

I think it's more remarkable that Mike Shelton, who was a top executive in Rob McGrath's ponzi scheme, is 'overseeing' A&K. Sure makes me glad I didn't take A&K up on their offer to 'invest' my settlement money with them.

TarheelTraveler · Feb 28, 2011

RLG said:
I think it's more remarkable that Mike Shelton, who was a top executive in Rob McGrath's ponzi scheme, is 'overseeing' A&K. Sure makes me glad I didn't take A&K up on their offer to 'invest' my settlement money with them.

Some have said he was one of the few decent people who stood up for and looked after members in that whole debacle. Others are not fans, because of his association.

I've only talked to him once recently, and he's remarkably frank (for better or worse) in an industry that is marked by exactly the opposite approach (again for better or worse).

Kagehitokiri2 · Feb 28, 2011

bottom line, he doesnt have anything to do with AK's structure, which is one of 3 clubs that are conservative.

ClubsRDead · Feb 28, 2011

That's funny guys. Not once did AK induce me and my settlement dollars with as "investment." I originally wouldn't give any money back to them because of AK, but I am now because of Shelton and how he explained the process to me last week. For anyone to claim he's not involved in structuring this deal, or with AKs full support is absurd.

RLG you were a fellow plaintiff but have never once posted on our club issues before? I find that cautiously suspect - looks like your time here has been spent talking timeshares and vacation clubs.

At the end of the day I don't care what happens as long as my travel resumes and the costs equate to the benefits in a mutually beneficial way. I'm betting that this time with AK it does.

OneMoreTime · Feb 28, 2011

ClubsRDead said:
At the end of the day I don't care what happens as long as my travel resumes and the costs equate to the benefits in a mutually beneficial way. I'm betting that this time with AK it does.

Still thinking it would have been ironic (and better) if he'd bought the club back as was an obvious plan at one point.

Kagehitokiri2 · Mar 1, 2011

ClubsRDead said:
Not once did AK induce me and my settlement dollars with as "investment." I originally wouldn't give any money back to them because of AK, but I am now because of Shelton and how he explained the process to me last week. For anyone to claim he's not involved in structuring this deal, or with AKs full support is absurd.

RLG you were a fellow plaintiff but have never once posted on our club issues before? I find that cautiously suspect - looks like your time here has been spent talking timeshares and vacation clubs.

that is not correct re RLG.

...

its funny, i seem to recall shelton trashing AK on DC4MS.

ClubsRDead has trashed AK and about everyone else here. but wait, shelton makes them like AK?

someone recently told me they think ClubsRDead is shelton.

when they told me this, my response was - what?? but now i guess i have to say i wouldnt be surprised, considering shelton posted things like "Mike Shelton is such a savvy businessman" on DC4MS, and then claimed it was someone impersonating him, even though he registered using his TH corporate email address.

only posting this time because of this?

RLG said:
I think it's more remarkable that Mike Shelton, who was a top executive in Rob McGrath's ponzi scheme, is 'overseeing' A&K. Sure makes me glad I didn't take A&K up on their offer to 'invest' my settlement money with them.

and going back >

Kagehitokiri2 said:
ok now i remember one thing he did - talked about how great michael shelton was.

the DC industry can seriously not get any more ridiculous.

i thought all the positive discussion about TH bankruptcy was focused on CRO holly etlin
for example - http://www.destinationclubnews.com/...hies_For_Restructuring_A_Destination_Club.php
but i dont really recall at this point what was posted on DC4MS/TUG

"thought...but i dont really recall"

and yet >

ClubsRDead said:
You might want to check your facts Kage, Holly Etlin left the employ of TH before the sale UR even closed. In fact, it closed some year + later, that was at the direction of the board, who had terminated Xroads in July 07 for failure to perform.

It's my understanding that Etlin and Shelton are not only friendly, but have worked other projects together since.

All the banter on this board about nothing is probably why no one ever learns anything here - or responds about anything in a positive manner.

...

if shelton is a positive influence on industry (and especially AK) then thats great, obviously.

i simply dont understand why he didnt just say something like "oops - you got me" on DC4MS.

ClubsRDead · Mar 1, 2011

Well I guess if my moniker makes you equate me with someone I am not (but whom I respect), then might I suggest you unveil yourself and lets get on the phone with all the parties. I don't purport to be anyone I am not - can you say the same?

I don't know anything about the prior boards as I wasn't a participate in them, but it does appear that you have a lot of innuendos' and "I think I recall," but no facts. Actually makes me wonder if you're one of the prior referenced terminated employee's that didn't make the cut, or receive any severance? No one else would make such blatant comments, and likely no one with any money or common sense would expose themselves too it.

As for the club going forward - I hope we're making the right decision and I believe with the people in place that we are. I guess in a year or so we'll all know.

RLG · Mar 1, 2011

ClubsRDead said:
I originally wouldn't give any money back to them because of AK, but I am now because of Shelton and how he explained the process to me last week.

After all the negative commentary that ClubsRDead has made in the past on the "slimeballs" and "scum bags" in the destination club industry I was quite surprised by this comment. What a change of heart! It's particularly strange that he had this change of heart based on discussions with Mike Shelton whose claim to fame is being a retread from the granddaddy of all failed destination club/ponzi schemes - Tanner & Haley.

I didn't see the discussions about Shelton on DC4MS, but have heard reference to them before. Something definitely seems odd about the relationship between him and ClubsRDead that would induce such a drastic change of heart.

ClubsRDead said:
RLG you were a fellow plaintiff but have never once posted on our club issues before? I find that cautiously suspect - looks like your time here has been spent talking timeshares and vacation clubs.

RLG · Mar 1, 2011

ClubsRDead said:
RLG you were a fellow plaintiff but have never once posted on our club issues before? I find that cautiously suspect

My "fellow plaintiff" is annoyed that I haven't posted enough about it. Oddly, he can't keep his story straight. This is what he had to say about the lawsuit previously:

ClubsRDead said:
I'm not part of the branding / licensing suit. Been asked many times and don't believe there is a basis there. I was told upfront if it was my last dollars to not join the club. I made the decision on my own accord, talked to numerous members at the time and all were more than happy (now we know why).

Some argue there is merit to the litigation. I see it merely as pouring good money after bad. I wish AK had been more proactive in resolving it, and I think they could have made offers at inception, certainly at least when Fortress got involved, and induced members over to their new club. The economics would have been an issue to resolve but I don't believe an insurmountable one.

I guess it's good news if he realized he was dead wrong before and changed his mind. Good thing he shared that view with anyone who was pursuaded by his argument before.

Kagehitokiri2 · Mar 1, 2011

back to RLG for a moment - they have 24 posts in this forum.
http://tugbbs.com/forums/search.php?f=48
search by user name RLG
show results as posts
includes for example, on dec 3 >

RLG said:
If you were a participant in the A&K lawsuit you should already have received your settlement papers.

...

ClubsRDead said:
you equate me with someone I am not (but whom I respect), then might I suggest you unveil yourself and lets get on the phone with all the parties. I don't purport to be anyone I am not - can you say the same?

I don't know anything about the prior boards as I wasn't a participate in them, but it does appear that you have a lot of innuendos' and "I think I recall," but no facts. Actually makes me wonder if you're one of the prior referenced terminated employee's that didn't make the cut, or receive any severance? No one else would make such blatant comments, and likely no one with any money or common sense would expose themselves too it.

like PerryM, many of your posts make it seem like you barely read any other posts. this makes your personal attacks weaker, because they seem just plain made up, rather than based on posts.

good memory RLG. also handy that PerryM got editing turned off.

dec 17 >

ClubsRDead said:
We received our settlement check first of the week and have also had conversation with AK about their offering. The website is very vague, almost worthless but so too was the announcement they sent out.

We'll probably do something with them but we're waiting on more information now.

dec 19 >

ClubsRDead said:
AK is offering some pretty decent join in prices for settlement conversions. They told us that we have to be part of the settlement group (they are actually confirming a lot of personal data)...We'll probably join after first of the year

dec 19 >

ClubsRDead said:
I'm happy with how they spoke to me, the expedience in which they actually got back to me and follow up and the candor of the offer and details presented. Considering our settlement dollars appear to be all over the board (ie, dollars received by individual) I don't know how they'd publish something that was a "one size fits all."

first a post re being vague, similar to other posters.
2 days after that post, a dissimilar post suggesting ("i dont know how") that the other opinion is less reasonable/etc.
without acknowledging that post from 2 days prior.

feb 28 >

ClubsRDead said:
Not once did AK induce me and my settlement dollars with as "investment." I originally wouldn't give any money back to them because of AK, but I am now because of Shelton and how he explained the process to me last week.

dec 17/19 vs feb

other "discussions" >
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=883414&postcount=185
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=879590&postcount=109