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Rented WeeK--Now Renter wants to Sublet

grgs

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Hi all,

I'm looking for advice on how to proceed with a subletting situation with a rental. Here's the email that my renter sent me this morning:

I'm sorry to bother you but ... I learned a few weeks ago that my childrens' school had moved spring break to the first week in April and therefore need to rent this week and make arrangements for the following week. I've identified a renter through Redweek and the renter's name is ______________. The email address for the reservation is ____________.

I know that I am not able to make a change the reservation since I am not the owner. Would you be so kind as to change the reservation from my name to __________'s name? Please feel free to email or call me with any questions.
While my contract says no cancellations/refunds, I am willing to work with a renter if something comes up. I would have preferred that they had contacted me when they first discovered the date conflict, and then I would have tried to re-rent or rebook for them. If successful, I would have refunded them what they paid originally (less any price difference/expenses).

The renter relisted the unit through Redweek using the full service option. The new renter has paid for the unit, but the money has not been transferred to the original renter, since I haven't made the name change on the reservation.

I can see that they may feel that they saved me the trouble by finding their own renter. But I'm concerned as my contract is not with this 3rd party. How might I proceed to make sure that everything goes smoothly for all concerned? Does using the full service option via Redweek provide any protection (for all parties)?

Thanks,

Glorian
 
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CalGalTraveler

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It is good that they have found you a new renter. Perhaps you should stipulate that you want to have a new contract directly with the renter and have the new renter pay you directly (or have in writing that the old renter is transferring the funds to be used with the new renter in writing) with an added administration change fee of $250 (?) from either the old renter or the new renter for you and your lawyer's time and effort to change the terms of the contract. If the renter qualifies e.g. over 25, looks like they won't damage the place, pays you upfront, you will then release the old contract.
 

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When this happens, I tell the original renter that I will have to work directly with the new renter DIRECTLY, so that I can send them a rental agreement, etc.

State that after the new renter pays in full - then you can refund the original renter.

Using Redweek means that the funds would all go into escrow, and you would not get paid until 2 weeks after the rental, and maybe never, if the renter disputes the payment - this gives you zero protection.

Your protection is having the payment in full.
 

grgs

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Thanks, CalGal. I would have preferred to have dealt with the new renter directly. However, this person has already paid for the rental (Redweek is holding the funds until the reservation is transferred into their name--which only I can do).

I think this situation should be fine, but I just want to make sure I'm not missing anything.
 

tschwa2

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$79.99
Service fees: $99 only when rented
  • Duration: Until Rented
  • Required: Active Membership
Benefits:
  • Our agents confirm reservation details
  • Free RedWeek Verified flag (a $14.99 value)
  • "New" flag on your posting for the first 30 days
  • RedWeek manages all inquiries and offers
  • Rental agreement created and signed digitally
  • Easy credit card processing for your renter, with built-in payment protection for both parties
Redweek shouldn't have been able to verify the reservation details. The renter had no right to create a contract. It doesn't look like there is any escrow included in the service so maybe you would get paid right away.

I would contact Redweek and have the renter sign a new contract with you. I would probably be tempted to keep a $500 security deposit from the original renter and refund only after the rental is complete.

In my contracts, based on one of the TUG models:
This agreement is being entered into for the purpose of personal use by the renter and his/her family and/or guests. Under no circumstance may this timeshare unit be sublet, occupied or given to another party without express written consent of the owner.
 

grgs

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Thanks, Denise. I would have liked to have proceeded with as you outlined above, but the new renter has already paid Redweek. To be clear, I have already received full payment from the original renter. The original renter is asking me to change the name of the reservation into the new renter's name. Since I've already received full payment, if there is anything I should get from either the original renter or the new renter? Do I need a new contract with the new renter, or does the contract I have with the original renter suffice?
 

grgs

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Redweek shouldn't have been able to verify the reservation details. The renter had no right to create a contract. It doesn't look like there is any escrow included in the service so maybe you would get paid right away.

I would contact Redweek and have the renter sign a new contract with you. I would probably be tempted to keep a $500 security deposit from the original renter and refund only after the rental is complete.

I would guess that verifying the reservation details consisted of my renter forwarding the reservation in their name to Redweek.

No need for a security deposit, as I have already been paid in full by the original renter.

In my contracts, based on one of the TUG models:
This agreement is being entered into for the purpose of personal use by the renter and his/her family and/or guests. Under no circumstance may this timeshare unit be sublet, occupied or given to another party without express written consent of the owner.

I should probably add this to my contract.
 

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So the new renter paid Redweek, and THEN the original renter informed you they were subletting the rental?

That is baloney - why should they dictate the terms to you?

I absolutely would not do this! If they paid Redweek without your knowledge, that means that the payment is going to the original renter - not to you!

Tell them that you did not agree to these terms, and they should contact Redweek and let them know that the rental has been cancelled and get their money back, and then you will discuss it, under your own terms.
 

grgs

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Denise, I was already paid in full by the original renter several months ago. That's not the issue. I suspect that the renter was trying to "simplify" things by finding his own renter. Especially, given that my contract says non-cancellable, non-refundable.

I'm willing to work with the original renter--I'm just wondering if I need anything additional paperwork either from him or the new renter to protect all parties.
 

vacationhopeful

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Let me explain to YOU how this is COULD play out ... IMHO.

You put this unit in the name of 'your tenant's renter' and they check into your unit. They trash the place .. or even just steal all the flat screen TVs and their credit card was REPORTED stolen 10+/- minutes before they checked in. YOU get a BILL from the resort 60-90+ days after repairs/replacement of damages.

AND ... Redweek's FULL SERVICE IS GONING TO PAY THE OWNER OF THE AD ... NOT YOU! AND just after the rental period has commenced.

ALSO ... just how much was the REDWEEK posted ad charging for this rental? And WHEN was this ad place with Redweek ... 3 days after you rented this unit out to the RE-RENTING party?

IMHO, this is total crap.

PS I have NEVER KNOWN a school system to change the dates of SPRING BREAK to a different week after the school year started. I have seen Spring Break weeks CANCELLED or cut short of days off ... due to too many SNOW days.
 

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The fact that the new renter has already paid Redweek is an issue - did you agree to that?

(I agree with Linda's post above - that's worse case scenario, but it illustrates how you have lost control of the rental.)

You need to deal directly with the new renter and have a rental agreement signed by the new renter.
 

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No, I did not agree to the Redweek payment. He just me the email about all of this situation this morning. Had I known about his situation, I would have preferred to have worked with the new renter directly.

This is the my email reply to him this morning (off of the email in my original post):

I'm willing to work with you to transfer the reservation, but I want to make sure every thing goes smoothly. This situation has not come up for me before, and I'm concerned as my contract is with you and not ____________. Have they already paid you for the rental?
His reply:

I appreciate your willingness to help here. I have not been paid for the reservation yet. I utilized a Full Service listing through RedWeek for the safest possible transaction, but payment is not finalized until the reservation change has occurred. I will forward you the email I received from RedWeek yesterday confirming the individual who would like to rent the unit. It will confirm the name and contact information of the renter. I'm happy to contact that person and provide the same rental agreement that I signed if that would be helpful. I have until this Wednesday, January 24th to transfer the name on the reservation.

Thanks again for your help and sorry for not reaching out earlier in the process. I assumed a name change on the reservation would be fairly simple.

He did forward me the Redweek payment confirmation.

I am concerned that it doesn't appear that he has a contract with the new renter.
 

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I wouldn't do it - you need to have a rental agreement with the new renter.

I can't believe he did all this without consulting you - I wonder if he rented your week for a profit? There is nothing wrong with that, IF it is handled properly (like when a rental company buys your rental for their inventory) but this is kind of underhanded.
 
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theo

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I would strongly recommend executing a new contract directly with the "replacement" tenant. The inappropriate RedWeek situation is solely the problem (and expense to absorb) of the original tenant to resolve entirely on their own; it is a problem entirely of their own making, created without extending the basic courtesy of consulting the OP / owner first.

If / when the new tenant signs the new contract directly with the OP and their payment later clears, OP can then (and only then) return the original tenant's funds. OP should clearly advise the original tenant that there will be no refund until such time as there is a new contract directly between the OP (owner) and the new would-be tenant and OP receives (and clears) payment in full directly from the new tenant before the rental date. Absent that solution being successful, refer the original tenant to the "no refunds, no cancellation" terms expressed and agreed to in the original (and the only vaild so far) contract. Only the owner can change the name on the reservation confirmation --- and should not even consider doing so without a new contract being executed (IMnsHO).

The original tenant had neither any right nor any standing to rent out something they don't own in the first place. A good rental contract eliminates any such attempt right from the git go by overtly and expressly prohibiting any sub-lease. Unfortunately, it does not sound like the OP's contract addressed this particular subject at all.

RedWeek had no valid basis on which to "verify" the listing either; the "advertiser" was not the owner of the interval at issue and had no legal standing. Part of being "RedWeek verified" is (...supposedly) conclusively establishing that the advertiser actually has the legal standing to conduct the rental in the first place. A mere copy of a reservation confirmation (with no owner identity verification) clearly does no such thing. Shame on RedWeek for proceeding anyhow, despite "verifying" nothing more than the existence of a reservation. That's quite lame, at best --- and a problem for the original tenant to now promptly address and conclusively resolve with RedWeek entirely on their own.
 
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Thanks, Denise. I would have liked to have proceeded with as you outlined above, but the new renter has already paid Redweek. To be clear, I have already received full payment from the original renter. The original renter is asking me to change the name of the reservation into the new renter's name. Since I've already received full payment, if there is anything I should get from either the original renter or the new renter? Do I need a new contract with the new renter, or does the contract I have with the original renter suffice?
It does not matter that the second renter paid Redweek.
Your renter had no right to rent a unit they did not own and Redweek needs to know the person had no right to rent it.

With a full service Redweek rental they are suppose to verify the reservation. How did they do this other then seeing your renters name on the resie?

This is a very dangerous situation.
 

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I just talked to him on the phone. He says that he ended up renting the unit for about $200 more than I rented it for. The one verified ad on RW for this unit, showing as rented, matches this price. I don't think he'll net much, if anything, once he has to pay RW's fees. He does not have a contract with the new renter; he thought that RW's full service option would take care of that.

I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. But, I'm going to call RW tomorrow to see if we can straighten all this out, and get a contract in place between me and the new renter.
 

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I would not call Redweek - they will want to transfer the escrow account to you, and have you refund the original renter, and wait for your payment. You don't want to do that.

I would tell renter #1, that you need to have a contract with renter #2, and write up a new rental agreement that includes the details of the new rental terms, sublet, etc.

I would not give any refunds - let renter #1 and renter #2 deal with the Redweek Escrow Acct.
 

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The original tenant had no inherent right to rent out that which they do not own in the first place, but a good rental contract eliminates any such possibility right from the git go, by expressly prohibiting sub lease. Doesn't sound to me like the OP's rental contract did so. I also believe that RedWeek had no right or option to "verify" a listing where the advertiser was not the actual owner of record in the first place.

I did NOT have anything in my contract regarding sub-leasing, so that was an oversight on my part. This will be added to any future contracts.
 

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I did NOT have anything in my contract regarding sub-leasing, so that was an oversight on my part. This will be added to any future contracts.
You also did not have anything in there that said they COULD sublet.

Sorry you are in this mess.
Just don’t get scr@wed by your first renter. Suggest you follow Denise’s advice on this one.
 

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Thanks, everyone. I'm going to follow Denise's advice. I have drafted a new contract to be signed by the new renter. I've noted that I am allowing a one-time sublet by renter #1 to renter #2.
 

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Thanks, everyone. I'm going to follow Denise's advice. I have drafted a new contract to be signed by the new renter. I've noted that I am allowing a one-time sublet by renter #1 to renter #2.

Collect 3/4f the old tenant's profit. He got $200 MORE .. .demand a US Post Money Order for $150. For your time and energy to CHANGE the name on the Reservation. Wyndham Vacation Club charges $99 online/$129 call in .. to add a different inbbound guest.

This was NOT what you bargain for when YOU rented to him. Stress, more paperwork, your time, re-notifing resort of inbond guest changes, etc.

PS If you ask for $100, he would try to pay you nothing or less. If you ASK/DEMAND all $200, he won't do that again to YOU but will blast you all over Redweek for being a JERK he rented from. If he gives you NOTHING, do not add his guest as inbound and call the resort to make sure they follow checkin procedures.
 

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Good luck! Sorry you have to deal with this! Please let us know how it goes. :hi:
 

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This is awful. I can’t add any advice to this. Some people have a lot of nerve.
 

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This doesn't smell right to me.

It does not sound logical that a renter would do a FULL SERVICE (i.e. expensive) Redweek sublease instead of contacting the owner. Why risk $80 nonrefundable fee with Redweek when it costs $0 to first contact the owner and ask if you can pretty please nullify the contract? If you are a savvy enough renter to try a sublease on your own, then you are savvy enough to know that the owner is probably willing to refund (most of) your rent if he is able to find a new renter. I don't buy the idea that the renter is trying to make it easier on the owner.

It also makes me very wary of Redweek. That their "full service" department only checks that the name on the reservation matches the confirmation number. No call to the resort to confirm the name on the reservation is in fact the owner. It also makes me wonder what would have happened if the owner had simply ADDED the renter's name as a guest rather than remove himself from the confirmation. I would hope that Redweek would have rejected the rental ad.

Also, if the original renter was truly trying to have saved the owner a hassle, they would have probably offered extra info to Redweek at the start - such as "I am renting a week from someone and would like to sublease it. CAN I do that?". I bet Redweek would have balked, saying they would need to contact the owner. Nope - it sounds to me like the original renter was trying to tell Redweek as little as possible.

My wife is also a teacher, and I agree that the district would not change spring break schedule with such little notice - unless maybe the calendar was already altered due to a natural disaster, like the California wildfires.

What I would do as the owner:
1) As you stated, the current contract states no cancellation and no refunds. Unfortunately (I presume) it does not state no sublease...
2) I would tell the renter that they have an invalid contract with Redweek. I guarantee the contract is defining the renter as the owner. When the renter signed that contract he committed fraud. He cannot fulfill the contract because he cannot change the name on the reservation. Tell the renter to have Redweek cancel the contract and return money to the sub leaser. The renter needs to eat any fees involved with doing this. My guess is Redweek will never contact you if this happens. They will pray that you never find out.
3) Offer to put the unit up for rent again and to refund a portion of the rent if you are able to rent it again. For instance, if $2000 was paid to you in initial rent, offer up to $1800 back ($200 for your troubles). If it rents for $2500, the original renter gets $1800 and you do the happy dance. If it rents for $1000, they get $800 back. OR draw up a contract between you and the new renter and once you get payment, return some amount to the original renter. The original renter should NOT walk away with any extra money in his pocket for all this mess. Personally, I wouldn't include the name of the original renter in the new contract; he is going to need to TRUST that you will give back rent money once you are paid. This is a mess he created.
4) If the original renter balks, contact Redweek and inform them they have a client that is engaged in a fraudulent rental through their service. I'm sure Redweek will cancel the contract. If they balk, let them know that people at TUG will be interested to hear that Redweek fails to protect owners from identity theft.


And in the future, make sure your contracts mention how sub-leases will be handled.

I'm concerned about the nightmare scenario that was painted. Because your contract does not exclude sub-leases, I think you are in a dangerous situation... It's a lesson for us all.
 
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PamMo

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So much for trusting in Redweek's Full Service protection! It's crazy that they would agree to be a party in this.

In trying not to give a knee jerk reaction, and thinking about it from your renter's point of view, (it's hard to get past the change of Spring Break dates - but it might be plausible with all the natural disasters and weird weather this school year) I could see trying to line up a renter if I thought I would lose all my money due to the "no cancellations/no refunds" policy. The extra $200 might have been to cover the RedWeek fees, and a little negotiation room.

In your situation, my response to him would be that I'm uncomfortable doing a third party rental, appreciate that he was being proactive, but I am ultimately responsible for the unit and need to deal directly with the guest renting it. If you're OK with Redweek's full service policy, you might explain the situation and see if Redweek can transfer the contract to you. Then refund your first renter's rental fee only after you've been paid. I wouldn't give him a dime extra.

I think he was out of line to do what he did, but I'm a big believer in trying to find a solution that works for everyone. He saves face by not being reprimanded/banned by RedWeek, he won't lose the rent he paid you, you get paid and can deal directly with your new renter.

I hope it works out for you, Glorian. You've certainly given us all a heads up on Redweek's lack of accountability.
 
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