Renting a "Home Resort" and impact of combining/banking SO from multiple mandatory resorts

[okwiater]

WSJ is not as strong of a rental as you would think - it doesn't have the broad appeal that Hawaii and HRA have.

Why do you conclude that WSJ is not a strong rental? Have you rented a unit there before?

 

[DeniseM]

It's common knowledge that WSJ does not have the rental demand that Maui and HRA have - it's a specialty market: It's hard to get there, driving is on the left side of the road, it's not touristy, it's a more foreign experience. A lovely place of course, but doesn't have broad demand.

 

[skibummer]

[

That would not be allowed. You could only rent the studio in Hawaii, booked with its corresponding Staroptions. You could not use Staroptions from anywhere else to reserve different sized units and then rent them out. You could not use Staroptions from anywhere else to reserve a second studio to rent out.

It really isn't complicated. You can only rent what you own at a specific location. Using Staroptions from other locations to rent out is not allowed.

The statement in the confirmation you get when you make a reservation is not ambiguous. It indicates renal of units reserved with Staroptions is prohibited, except at your home resort.

Owning at multiple resorts has nothing to do with this. You can only rent what you own at a given resort. Once that vacation interval is used up, you cannot rent out units there reserved with Staroptions from other resorts. You would not be reserving at the home resort associated with those options.

Very clear, and I agree with the above statements. Thanks.

 

[Helios]

Short stays in Hawaii do not rent well - it's not a short stay destination.
WSJ is not as strong of a rental as you would think - it doesn't have the broad appeal that Hawaii and HRA have.
Ski weeks are not as strong as prime weeks in Hawaii and HRA.

I wasn't talking about a short rental in HI, you could rent a non OF full week (using your OF SOs), make a profit, and keep SOs...

I own 3 units at WSJ and rent for about 2 x MF when I don't use them, that is good enough for me...

Ski weeks may not be as appealing, but you can still make a profit.

What is profit to you? The google machine say: a financial gain, especially the difference between the amount earned and the amount spent in buying, operating, or producing something

I get 3 x MF from my HRA weeks and I like it. But my WSJ units which get MF x 2 are fine. I even own at other resorts (which apparently are bad renters) and they generate more than the MFs. I use my weeks when I want and have time. If I can't use them I rent them (exactly what I own) and always come ahead regardless of their locations.

 

[DeniseM]

I was responding to someone else:

No but Hawaii now has views so you could take 7 nights of non ocean front and reserve fewer nights of ocean front which might be a stronger rental.

What is profit to you?

I don't think I used the word "profit" - I was writing about demand.

 

[Helios]

All Home resort resi can be rented (all agree), resi booked at home resort via SO less than 8 months out (TUG members differ on interpretation), SO used from another resort can't be rented as it's against the rules (seems obvious). Is this the distillation of the thread?

All Home resort resi can be rented (all agree), Definitely

resi booked at home resort via SO less than 8 months out (TUG members differ on interpretation), I think you can, as you noted, not everybody agrees

SO used from another resort can't be rented as it's against the rules (seems obvious). Definitely

Is this the distillation of the thread? Yes, to me

 

[okwiater]

It's common knowledge that WSJ does not have the rental demand that Maui and HRA have - it's a specialty market: It's hard to get there, driving is on the left side of the road, it's not touristy, it's a more foreign experience. A lovely place of course, but doesn't have broad demand.

So when you use the term "strong rental" you are referring solely to the level of demand as opposed to the profitability of the unit?

 

[Helios]

I was responding to someone else:

I don't think I used the word "profit" - I was writing about demand.

You are right, to be fair you didn't...

but my point was that you can make a profit from renting at other resorts that are not located in Hawaii or from HRA.

I noted you can use your higher season and bigger size units to reserve lower season and smaller sizes (all at your resort) while making a profit. You said that only could happen at HRA or HI but HI was out because the SOs were the same or something to that effect. Did I miss something? I believe all resorts can make a profit (some more than others, but all can).

 

[Helios]

So when you use the term "strong rental" you are referring solely to the level of demand as opposed to the profitability of the unit?

I guess that is what Denise implied. But, why would you rent just to break even? As a last measure if you cannot use it...not a sustainable scenario...you should sell in that case...

 

[DeniseM]

Yes - demand indicates how popular a resort is with renters. We were discussing which resorts would be good Staroption rentals, and I stated which ones have the most demand. Demand indicates how easy or difficult it is to rent at a resort.

Not all resorts can be rented for a profit - there are some that are difficult to rent for enough to cover maintenance fees, or at all. Resorts in over-built areas fall into this category - like Florida, Branson, Las Vegas.

As someone who owns/owned SVR and SDO, I know of what I speak. (I also owned a Christmas week in Branson in the past.)

We also own several OF units on Kauai, and have problems renting them for enough to cover the maintenance fee. Kauai just isn't as popular as Maui. But we bought them to use, not rent, so that's OK.

And we got all of them them for cheap or free.

 

[okwiater]

Yes - demand indicates how popular a resort is with renters. We were discussing which resorts would be good Staroption rentals, and I stated which ones have the most demand. Demand indicates how easy or difficult it is to rent at a resort.

I don't mean to sound nitpicky, but demand only determines how easy or difficult it is to rent in relation to supply. The Westin Maui properties are much larger and have much more resort competition than Westin St. John, which means an owner must compete with many other owners attempting to rent similar units. There may be much more demand, but with many comparable units this will result in downward price pressure along the supply-demand curve. In St. John on the other hand, an owner could be offering quite literally the only unit of a certain type for a given week.

 

[Helios]

I should consider myself lucky, my experience with FL units is that they rent for above MFs (consistently).

 

[Helios]

BTW - generalizing has gotten my in trouble, so I post based on my experience. I am not saying all units rent above MF, just that it can be done.

 

[DeniseM]

I understand exactly what you are saying, but based on my 15 years of expereince as a Starwood/Vistana owner, and 15 years of discussions on TUG, if I wanted to rent a Staroption reservations, I would not choose WSJ.

When you consider all the factors - it doesn't offer the best odds.

 

[okwiater]

if I wanted to rent a Staroption reservations, I would not choose WSJ.

I wholeheartedly agree with that. But then... hopefully people here on TUG are buying where they want to go, right?

 

[Helios]

I understand exactly what you are saying, but based on my 15 years of expereince as a Starwood/Vistana owner, and 15 years of discussions on TUG, if I wanted to rent a Staroption reservations, I would not choose WSJ.

When you consider all the factors - it doesn't offer the best odds.

100% Agree with this. That is the problem at HRA...

 

[DeniseM]

I wholeheartedly agree with that. But then... hopefully people here on TUG are buying where they want to go, right?

Yes - but this discussion is about renting Staroption reservations...

 

[Helios]

Now, for some controversy...

What if you own unit type X in season Y at resort Z and reserve unit type X (or another unit smaller than yours) in season A (or another season lower than yours) at resort Z and make a reservation past 8 months and want to rent it......That's the potential loop hole. You are Paying MFs to resort Z but you are not renting what you own. I believe this should not be done...

wow, sometimes I crack myself up...

OK, now we are on the same page with the derailment...

Who wants to answer simply yes or no to this without going on a tangent...

I say NO

 

[Helios]

Yes - but this discussion is about renting Staroption reservations...

I think that is a perfect a way to dove tail into my original point, see above...

 

[okwiater]

Who wants to answer simply yes or no to this without going on a tangent...

I say NO

People may still cling to an opinion that it's okay to rent something reserved with StarOptions that does not exactly match the ownership from which they were obtained, but I think it's pretty clear-cut that it's not permitted. It must be the same resort, the same unit type, and the same season.

 

[VacationForever]

I can tell you that if someone rents SO reservation to me and when I show up at the resort and my reservation has been cancelled due to that rental not being permitted, I am going to go after the one who rented the resort to me and sue for all costs incurred plus more - air fare, lost time and punitive $ for causing my family distress.

 

[Helios]

People may still cling to an opinion that it's okay to rent something reserved with StarOptions that does not exactly match the ownership from which they were obtained, but I think it's pretty clear-cut that it's not permitted. It must be the same resort, the same unit type, and the same season.

That is my position...even if this is done past 8 months = Reserving exactly what you own using your SOs which happens to be labeled a SO reservation...

 

[Helios]

I can tell you that if someone rents SO reservation to me and when I show up at the resort and my reservation has been cancelled due to that rental not being permitted, I am going to go after the one who rented the resort to me and sue for all costs incurred plus more - air fare, lost time and punitive $ for causing my family distress.

In this scenario, I would do the same...

This, however, implies you would rent a SO resie knowing this is a risk, right? I am guessing you are not speaking for yourself, but on behalf of an upset owner who experiences this.

Agreed, someone who does not know the terminology of the reservations naming convention could find the hard way. And the renter of the SO could also get a big headache...

 

[Helios]

Definitely more clarification from Vistana is needed.

 

[VacationForever]

In this scenario, I would do the same...

This, however, implies you would rent a SO resie knowing this is a risk, right? I am guessing you are not speaking for yourself, but in behalf of an upset owner who experiences this.

Agreed, someone who does not know the terminology of the reservations naming convention could find the hard way. And the renter of the SO could also get a big headache...

Yes. I am not speaking for myself but [hypothetically] for someone else who is a victim of this.