Renting a "Home Resort" and impact of combining/banking SO from multiple mandatory resorts

[Helios]

Yes because now when I rent my home resort reservation, my guest can't confirm directly with the resort or with Vistana. I own a few SBP platinum and gold plus summer weeks and 2 Harborside weeks. I like to be able to make a reservation, forward a confirmation and have the renter call directly to confirm. They can't do this now. I have to make a conference call unless the guest is content to pay with only a confirmation in hand.

Got it. I haven't been asked for a conference call to confirm.

 

[Markus]

Reread the proposed question and Markus' reply (I did 3 time to make sure I read him correctly) he actually stated to dioxide45 since he owns a studio in Hawaii and uses SVV SO to reserve a 2 bdr in Hawaii he COULD rent out the studio but not the adjoining 1 bdr since he didn't own that as well. That seems like it shouldn't be allowed since he stated the SO originated from SVV. Not sure if you misread the question, but the answer that he CAN rent a Hawaii studio booked with SVV SO seems incorrect. All Home resort resi can be rented (all agree), resi booked at home resort via SO less than 8 months out (TUG members differ on interpretation), SO used from another resort can't be rented as it's against the rules (seems obvious). Is this the distillation of the thread?

Misread the original post. I thought the Studio was reserved with options from the home resort. Upon review, this was not the case, and so would be against the rules. Apologies for the confusion.

Markus

 

[Helios]

Misread the original post. I thought the Studio was reserved with options from the home resort. Upon review, this was not the case, and so would be against the rules. Apologies for the confusion.

Markus

Same here.

 

[YYJMSP]

But, if everybody believes that then the system crashes...let's hope not...all the owners from low MFs properties will rent the attractive inventory that makes it to the 8 month mark.

So, let me ask the obvious (at least to me) question now:

Realistically, how many owners at the "low MF" properties actually have enough units with SO's to add up to make this a problem at the "high MF" properties (which need more SO's to book)?

Are we blowing this out of proportion?

Are we afraid that there are all these nefarious SVR owners who have 2 units each with SO's that they add up and then can book 1 unit at WKORV at 8mos out to compete with all of the WKORV owners at 8mos out? Didn't those owners at WKORV get 4 months head-start to book units???

I'm feeling this is a little bit of "you snooze you lose" for those WKORV owners who didn't book in the first 4 months.

The secret to successful timesharing is planning far far in advance. The longer you wait, the less likely it is going to work for you.

Personally, I sometimes find it hard to book at the popular resorts that I don't own at with SO's at exactly 8mos out. So I try again the next day. And then the next day. Repeat as needed. Eventually I get a unit. I book my flights, and life goes on...

 

[canesfan]

Personally I sometimes find it hard to book at the high demand resorts I own between 11-9 months! Good luck at after 8 months.

But I still believe you should not be combining SOs and renting a more high demand resort with them.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Helios]

Realistically, how many owners at the "low MF" properties actually have enough units with SO's to add up to make this a problem at the "high MF" properties (which need more SO's to book)? I think there are owners who would want to get in the action, but, you bring a good point...how many of those have SOs and more importantly how many don't fear getting caught. In addition to SVR, I would add all FL resort and SBP in this low MF category. Perhaps all Sheratons (but I am don't know the MFs at other Sheratons). To some extent some of the Westins with low MF like Westin Kierland where you get a decent amount of SOs for relatively low MFs. So, I think that if you add all those SOs and owners know there are no penalties for renting your SOs you could be asking for trouble.

Are we blowing this out of proportion? I think so, using the term crash was a bit extreme. But it helped stir the pot. After all, I am just coming up with thought provoking posts to keep the thread going.

Are we afraid that there are all these nefarious SVR owners who have 2 units each with SO's that they add up and then can book 1 unit at WKORV at 8mos out to compete with all of the WKORV owners at 8mos out? Didn't those owners at WKORV get 4 months head-start to book units???

I'm feeling this is a little bit of "you snooze you lose" for those WKORV owners who didn't book in the first 4 months. I think it is you snooze you loose. But, how about owners who can't plan ahead because family scheduling conflicts.

The secret to successful timesharing is planning far far in advance. The longer you wait, the less likely it is going to work for you. 100% with you on this one.

Personally, I sometimes find it hard to book at the popular resorts that I don't own at with SO's at exactly 8mos out. So I try again the next day. And then the next day. Repeat as needed. Eventually I get a unit. I book my flights, and life goes on... I'll PM you on this...

 

[PamMo]

...Realistically, how many owners at the "low MF" properties actually have enough units with SO's to add up to make this a problem at the "high MF" properties (which need more SO's to book)?

Are we blowing this out of proportion?

Are we afraid that there are all these nefarious SVR owners who have 2 units each with SO's that they add up and then can book 1 unit at WKORV at 8mos out to compete with all of the WKORV owners at 8mos out? Didn't those owners at WKORV get 4 months head-start to book units???...

My guess is that most owners at expensive, high demand Vistana resorts don't think it's been blown out of proportion. We can make reservations early, but if we choose to rent our weeks, we compete with non-owners using less expensive VOI's to book weeks - against network policy. They can (and do) underprice our rentals, diminishing the value of owning there. First, we pay a premium to buy at our home resort, then we pay a premium in maintenance fees. When the policy has always stated that only Home Resort reservations may be rented, it's aggravating to read these threads over and over again, with people saying it's OK to rent SO exchanges (don't ask/don't tell, VSE won't enforce the rules, etc...). Renting SO exchanges has a negative impact on owners and network members who want to vacation at the high demand resorts.

 

[Helios]

Also, to a small extent this could apply to the other way around. Say you own a WSJ Plat+ Pool villa with MF and taxes at around $3k all in which generates 257,700 SOs. You then proceed to reserve a HRA 3 BR week 52 and you rent it for say $9,000 (I've seen those listings). That to me is serious profit at a high demand resort.

Is this likely to happen, no...could it happen, definitely (not at 8 months, but keep checking and you may be surprised).

Like YYJMSP said, this is just blowing it out of proportions. I am just staring the pot at this point.

 

[Helios]

My guess is that most owners at expensive, high demand Vistana resorts don't think it's been blown out of proportion.

I think it only takes one person at the WKORV pool saying they do to this all time to WKORV owners to get them really upset when they have issues reserving past 8 months...

I believe @DavidnRobin has seen this happen.

 

[VacationForever]

Realistically, how many owners at the "low MF" properties actually have enough units with SO's to add up to make this a problem at the "high MF" properties (which need more SO's to book)? I think there are owners who would want to get in the action, but, you bring a good point...how many of those have SOs and more importantly how many don't fear getting caught. In addition to SVR, I would add all FL resort and SBP in this low MF category. Perhaps all Sheratons (but I am don't know the MFs at other Sheratons). To some extent some of the Westins with low MF like Westin Kierland where you get a decent amount of SOs for relatively low MFs. So, I think that if you add all those SOs and owners know there are no penalties for renting your SOs you could be asking for trouble.

Are we blowing this out of proportion? I think so, using the term crash was a bit extreme. But it helped stir the pot. After all, I am just coming up with thought provoking posts to keep the thread going.

Are we afraid that there are all these nefarious SVR owners who have 2 units each with SO's that they add up and then can book 1 unit at WKORV at 8mos out to compete with all of the WKORV owners at 8mos out? Didn't those owners at WKORV get 4 months head-start to book units???

I'm feeling this is a little bit of "you snooze you lose" for those WKORV owners who didn't book in the first 4 months. I think it is you snooze you loose. But, how about owners who can't plan ahead because family scheduling conflicts.

The secret to successful timesharing is planning far far in advance. The longer you wait, the less likely it is going to work for you. 100% with you on this one.

Personally, I sometimes find it hard to book at the popular resorts that I don't own at with SO's at exactly 8mos out. So I try again the next day. And then the next day. Repeat as needed. Eventually I get a unit. I book my flights, and life goes on... I'll PM you on this...

I recall a TUGger who owned 4 weeks of SVV and was regularly renting out high value weeks elsewhere before these discussions started about it being prohibited a couple of years ago. Though this is just peanuts, technically one can turn it into a cottage industry. Yes, there are people who bought lower cost and lower MF mandatory weeks with sole intention of making money through rental of Harbourside and Maui resorts.

 

[Helios]

I recall a TUGger who owned 3 weeks of SVV and was regularly renting out high value weeks elsewhere before these discussions started about it being prohibited a couple of years ago. Though this is just peanuts, technically one can turn it into a cottage industry. Yes, there are people who bought lower cost and lower MF mandatory weeks with sole intention of making money through rental of Harbourside and Maui resorts.

Sales people in Orlando pitched this to me in 2012 and 2013. I pointed out this was against the rules, and they said that Starwood loves new meet regardless and they would not stop it...also, they would not question an Elite owner...

 

[Helios]

Sales people in Orlando pitched this to me in 2012 and 2013. I pointed out this was against the rules, and they said that Starwood loves new meet regardless and they would not stop it...also, they would not question an Elite owner...

This of course was a sales tactic, whatever it takes to make a sale.

 

[canesfan]

If we listened to what the salesperson told us, we'd be in a lot of trouble. Just saying.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[1320401]

Bumping an old thread:

We have an every other year (even) 2 bedroom at Kaanapali Villas. We used the 1 bedroom in 2018 and banked the remainder for studio use in 2019. We are struggling to find time to use the studio in 2019. Can we rent the studio in 2019? It is a StarOptions booking of course but is at our home resort (though not in our use year).

Thanks!

 

[controller1]

Bumping an old thread:

We have an every other year (even) 2 bedroom at Kaanapali Villas. We used the 1 bedroom in 2018 and banked the remainder for studio use in 2019. We are struggling to find time to use the studio in 2019. Can we rent the studio in 2019? It is a StarOptions booking of course but is at our home resort (though not in our use year).

Thanks!

The VSN rules prohibit renting StarOption reservations. One may only rent out a home resort period or home option reservation.

 

[1320401]

The VSN rules prohibit renting StarOption reservations. One may only rent out a home resort or home option reservation.

That was my thought as well but this thread made it seem like SO reservations at your home resort were allowed (or at least tolerated). Perhaps it's old information.

 

[Ken555]

Bumping an old thread:

We have an every other year (even) 2 bedroom at Kaanapali Villas. We used the 1 bedroom in 2018 and banked the remainder for studio use in 2019. We are struggling to find time to use the studio in 2019. Can we rent the studio in 2019? It is a StarOptions booking of course but is at our home resort (though not in our use year).

Thanks!

I thought banked options were valid for two years. Perhaps use them in 2020?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[DavidnRobin]

That was my thought as well but this thread made it seem like SO reservations at your home resort were allowed (or at least tolerated). Perhaps it's old information.

Text directly from Reservation Confirmation:

Rental of units reserved using StarOptions (other than a vacation period at your Home Resort) is prohibited. Violation may result in the suspension of an Owner’s right to reserve within the Vistana Signature Network (VSN) until compliant.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Sicnarf]

I don't rent.. I just "exchange" with family and friends

 

[DavidnRobin]

I don't rent.. I just "exchange" with family and friends

I willingly take full blame for the Renting of SOs text in the reservation confirmation. I suggested this to SVN (VSN) management years ago to remove confusion about this topic which was raised many years ago on TUG (2013-14? by @Glorian iirc).
This was actually one of the outcomes of a telephone interview I had with management with Owner Services that came after emails with S. Clarke (SVP) about various topics.

If one wants to circumvent the SO Rental rules - that is on them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[byeloe]

Text directly from Reservation Confirmation:

Rental of units reserved using StarOptions (other than a vacation period at your Home Resort) is prohibited. Violation may result in the suspension of an Owner’s right to reserve within the Vistana Signature Network (VSN) until compliant.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Still doesn't seem clear to me. If I use star options from my home resort to make a reservation at my home resort at 8 months, can I rent it out?

The way I read it, I would say yes I can rent it out

 

[PcflEZFlng]

That's how I read it. As long as you're using SOs from your home resort, it doesn't matter how far out you booked it. Further, I also interpret it to mean that if even you bank StarOptions from your home resort, you can rent out a reservation using those banked SOs as long as the reservation is at that same resort.

So for example if I bank 50K SOs from WMH, I can make a reservation at WMH the following year using those same 50K SOs and rent it out.

 

[Ken555]

That's how I read it. As long as you're using SOs from your home resort, it doesn't matter how far out you booked it. Further, I also interpret it to mean that if even you bank StarOptions from your home resort, you can rent out a reservation using those banked SOs as long as the reservation is at that same resort.

So for example if I bank 50K SOs from WMH, I can make a reservation at WMH the following year using those same 50K SOs and rent it out.

What part of

Rental of units reserved using StarOptions (other than a vacation period at your Home Resort) is prohibited.

is confusing?

Banked StarOptions are...StarOptions, and not a home resort reservation use of your deeded week rights.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[DavidnRobin]

SO Reservations are the ones made less than 8 months. Those are not HR (Home Resort) reservations even if made at HR. Those are SO reservations.
HR VOIs (TS weeks) are assigned those SOs for VSN reservations at 8 months. Otherwise they are HR reservations (8-12 months).

For example - I use my WKORV OF studio (assigned 81K SO) to reserve a week in a 1 Bd at WKORV (OV, IV) at 8 months - then decide to rent the 1Bd.
Not allowed...
it has become a SO Reservation - not a HR reservation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[byeloe]

What part of



is confusing?

Banked StarOptions are...StarOptions, and not a home resort reservation use of your deeded week rights.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

It would be crystal clear if the words in brackets were removed.

It is open to interpretation as it is currently worded