Renting a "Home Resort" and impact of combining/banking SO from multiple mandatory resorts

[controller1]

I have highlighted what is confusing. I've owned weeks at multiple Vistana resorts and when making a Home Resort Reservation within the 8-12 month timeframe, the rules state that only a week may be reserved and the check-in days are Friday/Saturday/Sunday.

What resorts do you own?

I own two Vistana contracts, and although both are noted to be in a certain 'season', they both come with StarOptions. I don't own any fixed weeks. I MUST use those SOs to book ANY reservation, no matter when or where I book it (12 months out at the home resort, 8 months out, 3 months out), it doesn't matter.

That reservation can be for any time of the year, and for any number of nights, even for the 12-month home resort reservation. The ONLY limiting factor is the number of SOs available for me to use (and, of course, availability). And yes, I can bank those points and reserve for whenever and whatever is available, for any time of the year. Therefore, as a points owner, 'weeks' and 'seasons' mean nothing to me.

 

[PcflEZFlng]

When I book a 12-8 month reservation (at my home resort only, of course), I have to use StarOptions and my SO balance goes down. By terms of use, I mean that even though my contract says I own "week x" and "season ()" it is for identification purposes only and has no bearing on when I can enjoy my stay. Again, my Vacation Ownership Interest (VOI) is a points contract, not a week contract.

The only thing that impacts my stay is how many StarOptions I have available to use. The cost of a villa stay in StarOptions DOES vary by season, as you know from the SO charts, so that a 7-night villa stay in prime season costs a lot more SOs than it does in low season. So, only in that regard does the season affect when and for long I stay.

Just saw the post about requiring a week's stay starting F/S/S during the 12-8 window. Since I typically reserve my stays by the week (by choice), I may be overlooking the rule stating that an 8-12 mo. reservation can only be done for a week. I'll need to go back and look for that.

 

[Ken555]

When I book a 12-8 month reservation (at my home resort only, of course), I have to use StarOptions and my SO balance goes down. By terms of use, I mean that even though my contract says I own "week x" and "season ()" it is for identification purposes only and has no bearing on when I can enjoy my stay. Again, my Vacation Ownership Interest (VOI) is a points contract, not a week contract.

The only thing that impacts my stay is how many StarOptions I have available to use. The cost of a villa stay in StarOptions DOES vary by season, as you know from the SO charts, so that a 7-night villa stay in prime season costs a lot more SOs than it does in low season. So, only in that regard does the season affect when and for long I stay.

Just saw the post about requiring a week's stay starting F/S/S during the 12-8 window. Since I typically reserve my stays by the week (by choice), I may be overlooking the rule stating that an 8-12 mo. reservation can only be done for a week. I'll need to go back and look for that.

I suspect if you try reserving at a resort other than your home resort from 12-8 months, you’ll find that you can’t.

Of course your StarOption balance will be reduced with a home resort reservation, because you would not have those SOs available for the exchange period starting at eight months from checkin. The fact your SO balance is reduced with a home resort reservation does NOT mean you are using SOs for the home resort reservation.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[controller1]

When I book a 12-8 month reservation (at my home resort only, of course), I have to use StarOptions and my SO balance goes down. By terms of use, I mean that even though my contract says I own "week x" and "season ()" it is for identification purposes only and has no bearing on when I can enjoy my stay. Again, my Vacation Ownership Interest (VOI) is a points contract, not a week contract.

IIRC only Sheraton Flex, Westin Flex, Westin Aventuras and Westin Nanea VOIs are points contracts. All other Vistana VOIs are week contracts even though there may be a number of StarOptions associated with the week and that may vary based on size, view and/or season.

 

[dioxide45]

When I book a 12-8 month reservation (at my home resort only, of course), I have to use StarOptions and my SO balance goes down. By terms of use, I mean that even though my contract says I own "week x" and "season ()" it is for identification purposes only and has no bearing on when I can enjoy my stay. Again, my Vacation Ownership Interest (VOI) is a points contract, not a week contract.

The only thing that impacts my stay is how many StarOptions I have available to use. The cost of a villa stay in StarOptions DOES vary by season, as you know from the SO charts, so that a 7-night villa stay in prime season costs a lot more SOs than it does in low season. So, only in that regard does the season affect when and for long I stay.

Just saw the post about requiring a week's stay starting F/S/S during the 12-8 window. Since I typically reserve my stays by the week (by choice), I may be overlooking the rule stating that an 8-12 mo. reservation can only be done for a week. I'll need to go back and look for that.

But you can only make a reservation for a week/time outside of your season or for more or less than seven nights starting at eight months. We had someone in here a while back in another thread where we went round and round about how StarOptions are not the same as weeks from the 12-8 month mark. I am not sure I would be able to find that thread now though.

Yes, your StarOptions go down when you make a reservation inside of the 12-8 month booking window, but when you make reservations, the website will distinguish between the types. It will specify "Home Resort Usage" or will say "Required StarOptions" and indicate an amount. "Home Resort Usage" reservations will still deplete the number of StarOptions you have available, but if you own a deeded week the StarOption system is just an overlay to the weeks system.

If your ownership indicates week x and unit x, you indeed have weeks ownership and not a points contract. Both types are deeded BTW.

 

[controller1]

@dioxide45 you don't want to find that previous thread! My head still hurts over that one...

 

[PcflEZFlng]

I suspect if you try reserving at a resort other than your home resort from 12-8 months, you’ll find that you can’t.

That I already know. That was never in question.

However, there may be other considerations with the 12-8 mo reservation (full week requirement, not using SOs) that I may have overlooked or forgotten with time. I've owned these contracts for about 12 years and have used them every year, but with the same pattern of use.

Yes, your StarOptions go down when you make a reservation inside of the 12-8 month booking window, but when you make reservations, the website will distinguish between the types. It will specify "Home Resort Usage" or will say "Required StarOptions" and indicate an amount. "Home Resort Usage" reservations will still deplete the number of StarOptions you have available, but if you own a deeded week the StarOption system is just an overlay to the weeks system.

Yes, this is what I think I'm beginning to realize. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Ken555]

That I already know. That was never in question.

I think a little refresher would be good, so that we are all on the same page.

Assuming you own a 2-bed lockoff unit, you may use the full 2-bed in a single week or two weeks (1-bed/studio or 1-bed/1-bed, depending on the resort). When you book 12-8 months in advance during your deeded season, your deeded view is guaranteed (this doesn’t matter at some resorts, like Kierland). When you book 12-8 months in advance, I believe you must book a week at a time. These reservations are only for your home, deeded, resort. When making these reservations you are using your deeded property, not StarOptions and yet, as explained earlier, your remaining StarOptions for the year will automatically be reduced based on the unreserved portion of your week (ie. if you have a 148,100 StarOpton week and you book a large 1-bed in prime season which would otherwise cost 81,000, you will have 67,100 left to use in the event you opt to exchange the smaller 1-bed/studio week for another resort in the network).

From 8-0 months in advance, you may use your week to go to any club property (the club is the internal exchange program). When booking 8-0 months in advance, your home week is automatically converted to StarOptions during the reservation process and that is how you are able to go to other resorts.

To bring this full circle... your ability to rent a week is restricted to your home resort. Of that there is no question. The ability for you to rent a week outside your deeded season is the only question left in regards to the rental issue. Perhaps your opinion is now different than earlier, given that you earlier thought you could book anytime of year and have full rights to it.

As another example... I own Platinum Plus at Kierland. I could reserve and rent a Platinum Plus week without question. However, I do not believe I have the right to rent a week in a different season at Kierland as I would be obtaining use of that week via the Club as an exchange of my StarOptions. I have no deeded rights to any week at my resort outside of my deeded season.

Certainly I would like clarity on this issue from VSN in writing, as none of the phone reps can be relied upon for accurate info for this type of info.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[PcflEZFlng]

I think a little refresher would be good, so that we are all on the same page.

Assuming you own a 2-bed lockoff unit, you may use the full 2-bed in a single week or two weeks (1-bed/studio or 1-bed/1-bed, depending on the resort). When you book 12-8 months in advance during your deeded season, your deeded view is guaranteed (this doesn’t matter at some resorts, like Kierland). When you book 12-8 months in advance, I believe you must book a week at a time. These reservations are only for your home, deeded, resort. When making these reservations you are using your deeded property, not StarOptions and yet, as explained earlier, your remaining StarOptions for the year will automatically be reduced based on the unreserved portion of your week (ie. if you have a 148,100 StarOpton week and you book a large 1-bed in prime season which would otherwise cost 81,000, you will have 67,100 left to use in the event you opt to exchange the smaller 1-bed/studio week for another resort in the network).

From 8-0 months in advance, you may use your week to go to any club property (the club is the internal exchange program). When booking 8-0 months in advance, your home week is automatically converted to StarOptions during the reservation process and that is how you are able to go to other resorts.

To bring this full circle... your ability to rent a week is restricted to your home resort. Of that there is no question. The ability for you to rent a week outside your deeded season is the only question left in regards to the rental issue. Perhaps your opinion is now different than earlier, given that you earlier thought you could book anytime of year and have full rights to it.

As another example... I own Platinum Plus at Kierland. I could reserve and rent a Platinum Plus week without question. However, I do not believe I have the right to rent a week in a different season at Kierland as I would be obtaining use of that week via the Club as an exchange of my StarOptions. I have no deeded rights to any week at my resort outside of my deeded season.

Certainly I would like clarity on this issue from VSN in writing, as none of the phone reps can be relied upon for accurate info for this type of info.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I agree, these are a lot of good questions. Thanks for summarizing. I tried searching Vistana's website for this type of information and wasn't able to find any, not even the handbook that used to be on their old site. Their interactive guide leaves out a lot of details like this. I'm not sure even the handbook would have helped.

 

[tschwa2]

Another question would be if I bank my points one year and then book at my home resort using those points- say in the same season I own the following year - it would be SO's at 8 months or less- can I rent that? Also if I use SO's at my home resort during my deeded season but reserve for less than 7 nights or with non regular check in days like Tuesday-Tuesday, can I rent that out?

 

[Ken555]

Another question would be if I bank my points one year and then book at my home resort using those points- say in the same season I own the following year - it would be SO's at 8 months or less- can I rent that? Also if I use SO's at my home resort during my deeded season but reserve for less than 7 nights or with non regular check in days like Tuesday-Tuesday, can I rent that out?

We discussed banking earlier, and IMO if you book via SOs then you are *not* using your deeded week, you are by definition using the club reservation system which means you have already converted your week (or partial week, if a LO) to the club. After all, banking is inherently restricted to SOs and is outside your deeded rights as an owner of your timeshare. Once converted, you have no rights to rent anything reserved via SOs and are totally restricted to whatever Vistana will allow you to do (as with II, which has a policy that you are not allowed to rent any weeks reserved as an exchange).

In essence, the ability to rent should not change at all based on any reservation capability offered by the club. Before we were able to bank SOs, the only method to use a week after the use year was to deposit into an exchange company (II, etc). I don't see why that would change with banking, unless VSN makes a policy change.

I am certain that as others have posted many people are renting weeks they strictly shouldn't. This is exactly why VSN should have clear written policies on these issues, and I suspect there's more than one reason why they don't. Ambiguity is often an advantage for companies like Vistana.

Keep in mind that Vistana cannot remove your right to rent your deeded home resort period week. However, they can adjust the rules as they see fit to allow or not allow you to rent weeks booked via SOs. And the lack of clarity on this issue is why there is such confusion. I don't see this changing any time soon, nor do I expect any problems with owners renting. (Once again, I have never rented my weeks so have zero experience with it, though I have rented others).

 

[tschwa2]

Yes, they should have been clear but they weren't. That's why I too would like them to be clear. I know what the intent the rules are meant to imply but that isn't what they say.

 

[echino]

Strictly legally speaking, even renting out your deeded home week is not allowed if it's for commercial purposes.

In reality, you can freely rent out your deeded home week, even for commercial purposes. You can also rent out any StarOptions reservation at a resort where you own, no matter how obtained, regardless of what the rules say.

I have never heard about Vistana taking any action against renters of StarOptions reservation at a home resort, I am pretty sure there has been none.

Even a prohibition against renting out a StarOptions reservation at a resort where the renter does NOT own, does not seem to be enforced, but I may be mistaken here. Have there been any cases of people getting in trouble for this?

Bottom line, it does not matter what the rules say. If you interpret rules strictly, you are not allowed to rent out anything. It only matters what is happening in practice.

 

[LisaRex]

Strictly legally speaking, even renting out your deeded home week is not allowed if it's for commercial purposes.

I don't know about that. After Vistana bought out SVO, they tried to implement a fee ($75?) for changing the name on a reservation. Owners fought back by showing them that via their OA, SVO could not do anything to interfere with the owner's right to use his week, and that would include imposing a fee on a third party reservation. They quickly abandoned that new rule.

(Now, the IRS might have something to say about renting it out, as that's a possible taxable event, but unless an owner discloses it, the IRS would have no way of knowing about it.)

 

[echino]

Here you go:

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...-be-prohibited-as-commercial-activity.262024/

Not Vistana, but I am sure similar language can be found in most timeshare condominium documents. Just like if you own a condo where you live, the board can prohibit rentals.

 

[echino]

This is from a Vistana resort:

Personal Use Restriction. Use of Vacation Ownership Units or the facilities of the Condominium by Owners for commercial purposes or any purposes other than the personal use described in this Declaration is expressly prohibited. “Commercial purpose” includes a pattern of rental activity or other occupancy by an Owner that the Condominium Association, in its reasonable discretion, could conclude constitutes a commercial enterprise or practice.

No point trying to analyze finer points of legal language. Again, strictly legally, rentals are not allowed. In practice, you can do anything you want, as long as Vistana doesn't care.

 

[PcflEZFlng]

But then there's this from Vistana's website under Ownership 101, Renting My Vacation Ownership Interest:

Vistana™ Signature Experiences does not offer an Owner rental program at any of its villa resorts. However, as an Owner, you may reserve a Vacation Period at your Home Resort and arrange a private third-party rental. All renters must comply with the rules and regulations of your Home Resort, and as the Owner, you will be responsible for the acts or omissions of your renter and their guests.

So it does indeed appear they're explicitly okay with renting at the Home Resort, as long as an owner doesn't exhibit a pattern of renting that would indicate commercial activity. Still leaves out a lot of detail and subject to quite a bit of interpretation.

 

[PamMo]

Below is the response I just received, when I asked for a written clarification on renting a unit in a resort that you own. It looks like you can rent anything up to the limit of your VOI's at the resort.

Dear PAM,

The reservation may be booked at any time during 12-8 months prior (HRRP ) and or 8-0 months window (VSN). The reservation is required to be at your Home Resort and should not exceed the number of Vacation Ownership Interests (VOI) you own at that resort. The Third Party Guest fee is non-refundable and would only apply to the VSN reservation.

If an Owner is renting and the VSN reservation is not at their Home Resort, then the Owner cannot change the reservation to a Third Party.

I hope this information is helpful. Should you have any questions, please let me know.

Sincerely,

Shannon B.
Quality Connections

T F
VISTANA SIGNATURE EXPERIENCES
9002 SAN MARCO COURT
ORLANDO, FL 32819 ​

 

[DavidnRobin]

Below is the response I just received, when I asked for a written clarification on renting a unit in a resort that you own. It looks like you can rent anything up to the limit of your VOI's at the resort.

Dear PAM,

The reservation may be booked at any time during 12-8 months prior (HRRP ) and or 8-0 months window (VSN). The reservation is required to be at your Home Resort and should not exceed the number of Vacation Ownership Interests (VOI) you own at that resort. The Third Party Guest fee is non-refundable and would only apply to the VSN reservation.

If an Owner is renting and the VSN reservation is not at their Home Resort, then the Owner cannot change the reservation to a Third Party.

I hope this information is helpful. Should you have any questions, please let me know.

Sincerely,

Shannon B.
Quality Connections

T F
VISTANA SIGNATURE EXPERIENCES
9002 SAN MARCO COURT
ORLANDO, FL 32819 ​

Way to take charge!!!
This is what I do when it impacts me (this does not as we use or rent our HR using HR reservations).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Great information. As a new Vistana owner, I am confused by the definition of "VOI." What does it mean "not exceeding your "VOI"? e.g.

Is season part of VOI definition? Different season but same type e.g. own a 2 bdrm OF (VOI) but can secure and rent OF Christmas 2bdrm or 1 bdrm IV if available at 8 months?

Or is VOI = SO? An OF owner could use SO's (VOI = max SO) and downgrade to an OV or IV smaller unit, rent that out and use the rest of the SOs to trade for personal use?

or using Max SOs (VOI) in which an IV 2 bdrm owner could rent an OV/OF studio or 1 bdrm and rent it out?

Good to know options for the future in case we cannot use the unit.

 

[PamMo]

VOI = Vacation Ownership Interest. It's the legal description on your deed. Starwood layered StarOptions on top of this for all VOI's the developer sold. The right to StarOptions only goes along with the mandatory resorts when a VOI is sold on the secondary market.

If you own a deeded 2BR oceanfront unit in Maui, you have the right to book/rent your OF 2BR or an OF 1BR + OF Studio. With the ability to use StarOptions for a VSN reservations at your home resort, it appears you can rent whatever you can reserve with your StarOptions at your home resort (with the StarOptions you get from your home resort VOI).

 

[CalGalTraveler]

With the ability to use StarOptions for a VSN reservations at your home resort, it appears you can rent whatever you can reserve with your StarOptions at your home resort (with the StarOptions you get from your home resort VOI).

This is helpful thanks.

The ability to apply SO is the part that concerns me. I could see being able to rent your VOI unit type or lock-off from 8 months to check-in by using SOs. And it *might* be fair to have an OF and then rent out an OV or IV (lesser unit) if that's all that's available at 8 months because the owner paid a premium and is downgrading. However I don't see it as fair the other way around e.g. owner of a cheaper IV unit renting out an OF by using their SOs. But perhaps it nets out because they could only book smaller units because they don't have enough SOs to book a full 2 bdrm OF?

It also sounds like event weeks are fair game if available at 8 months.

This is probably why the "commercial clause" is there. Okay for occasional or single unit or two owned by a family because that doesn't move the needle, but when it becomes a rental business which blocks owners from using their SOs to reserve for personal use during popular weeks, there is cause for concern. If this gets out of hand, VSN can make an example out of someone.

 

[PamMo]

Most oceanfront villas are reserved by owners in the 8-12 month Home Resort booking period. If you're going to rent your OF unit in a prime week, you need to book as soon as that reservation window opens up at 12 months or they will be gone!

I think it's only fair to open it up both ways for StarOption reservations. If I can book and rent a week in a 1BR (no guaranteed view) with my studio OF 81K StarOptions, an IV owner ought to be able to book any view for as many days as they want as well.

 

[DeniseM]

It also sounds like event weeks are fair game if available at 8 months.

Vistana does not release unreserved Event Weeks for Staroption reservations - they keep them and rent them.