Resale at Bay Club?

[TDub1313]

Long time lurker, first time poster. I’ve been reading off and on for about 3 years and consider myself “semi-informed.” As I grow closer to actually thinking about buying questions pop up...
I know I’m supposed to answer the questions so I can be better helped - and I plan too
But...
I’d like to ask this first.
I see relatively “inexpensive” resale contracts at The Bay Club at WaiKoloa. I’ve seen resale contracts
in the neighborhood of - 7k plat for $3k with ~1.4k MF. I’ve also dabbled on eBay and seen contracts for $500 for a similar contract. I am aware this is an affiliate property and that makes things slightly different. I realize the MF’s are higher than the .15-.18 that is recommend - but the $/point for a 7k contact is well below the norm as well. Assuming I’m totally ignorant (which may or may not be the case) tell me why a 7k plat @ $3k with ~1.4 MF is a good or a bad deal.
Thanks!

 

[SmithOp]

It depends on how long you intend to hold and use it. If you project the total costs out 10,20,30 years you will find cheap Bay Club contracts are more cost effective in the short term. Not so much in the longer term compared to a $7k Vegas contract which cost a little more up front.

You need a spreadsheet to graph out costs over time, upfront plus annual maint fees.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[PigsDad]

Yep, it's the higher than average MF/point ratio that makes the Bay Club resales less expensive than other properties. Plus, it is an older property, and that seems to have an effect (affect?) on the price as well. With that said, if you were able to pick up 7000 annual points for less than $1K, I would consider that a very good deal.

Kurt

 

[TDub1313]

I absolutely get the idea of getting a spread sheet set up.
So, $3k for 7k points is overpriced and closer to $1k would be ideal? Or looking to Vegas/Orlando with MF ~$900 with a higher up front cost as an alternative?

Also, any other issues to consider buying at this affiliate? It seems some love the affiliates and some think it brings about some risk? I have looked at GT75’s list but many of the “top 25”/“cheaper”contracts are very large point contracts. The lowish price to buy in at BC is appealing, which is my quandary.
Any straight talk about buy or don’t buy at BC because of “X?”

 

[Magus]

Personally, I used a discounted cash flow over 10, 20 and 30 years to figure out the value to me on the two I'm buying. Say you can buy 7k points for $3k with $1.2k annual maintenance or 7k points for $7k with $0.9k in annual maintenance. Over long periods of time, the one with $900 in annual maintenance looks like a clear winner. However, if you take that $4k savings and invest in the stock market at an average gain of 7.5% over a long period of time, your $4k in up front savings is generating $300 a year (@ 7.5%) in earnings, which is enough to completely offset the delta in the annual maintenance.

Or, if you are more conservative than the stock market, you could use your mortgage, car loan, or other debt rate with a guaranteed payback for paying it down of 4% or whatever (which on $4k delta in purchase cost would be $160/yr in savings, or a bit more than half the delta in MF).

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

First, the question is - why are you buying? To get points, or to stay in Hawaii?

If you are only interested in points, then the cash flow models will tell you about the short term net costs vs the long term costs.

OTOH, if you want a nice place to stay in Hawaii (but not a mega resort), every year, you may want to spring for Bay Club contracts.

My goal is a month in Hawaii, every winter. A surrogate second home. Furthermore, I wanted the "best" units in the Bay Club. (Yes, "best" is a personal evaluation. YMMV). To me, "best" is the largest penthouse unit in a building with an elevator. There are 15 units of this nature. They are "A" penthouse 2 BDR units. So that is only what I bought after market.

But what do <you> want? That is what matters.

(By the By, I have 4 weeks odd and 3 weeks even, total outlay upfront (including all closing costs), is a little over $12K - for the lot.)

 

[CalGalTraveler]

First, the question is - why are you buying? To get points, or to stay in Hawaii?

If you are only interested in points, then the cash flow models will tell you about the short term net costs vs the long term costs.

OTOH, if you want a nice place to stay in Hawaii (but not a mega resort), every year, you may want to spring for Bay Club contracts.

My goal is a month in Hawaii, every winter. A surrogate second home. Furthermore, I wanted the "best" units in the Bay Club. (Yes, "best" is a personal evaluation. YMMV). To me, "best" is the largest penthouse unit in a building with an elevator. There are 15 units of this nature. They are "A" penthouse 2 BDR units. So that is only what I bought after market.

But what do <you> want? That is what matters.

(By the By, I have 4 weeks odd and 3 weeks even, total outlay upfront (including all closing costs), is a little over $12K - for the lot.)

Congrats. You can't buy a vacation condo/home for $12k. And without a lot of work and worry of owning a vacation home. What does your total MF run for all of these weeks?

 

[PigsDad]

Any straight talk about buy or don’t buy at BC because of “X?”

I personally wouldn't be concerned about the BC being an affiliate. Very little chance they would ever separate from HGVC, IMO. The only disadvantage I can see is slightly higher MFs, but as been mentioned above, the savings in the buy in price may more than compensate for that.

Kurt

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

Congrats. You can't buy a vacation condo/home for $12k. And without a lot of work and worry of owning a vacation home. What does your total MF run for all of these weeks?

This year's MF (for 4 weeks) ran $6432. (Note: I did not enroll in the HGVC, so There is no fee for that in the MFs) Next year's will be 3X the next year's MF for an "A" Penthouses . . .

(It's my one luxury. I don't live at a fancy address or drive a fancy car.)

Oh yes, I now have an ascend (the $95 AMEX) card, and got enough points from paying my MFs on it to break up the Hawaii flight into DFW to West Coast, stay overnite at a Hilton brand hotel for free, and then fly on to Hawaii. And do the same on the way back. Much easier on the body. And I have a small rental storeroom ($708 a year), with ice chest and clothes and such so all I need is a "go" bag (that I always keep packed). . .

 

[CalGalTraveler]

This year's MF (for 4 weeks) ran $6432. (Note: I did not enroll in the HGVC, so There is no fee for that in the MFs) Next year's will be 3X the next year's MF for an "A" Penthouses . . .

(It's my one luxury. I don't live at a fancy address or drive a fancy car.)

That's still about half the cost of annually maintaining many vacation homes and much less worry and work. Congrats on a smart decision.

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

That's still about half the cost of annually maintaining many vacation homes and much less worry and work. Congrats on a smart decision.

Thank you, Ma'am. If one wanted to, on that comparison basis, one could use the other half to buy another surrogate vacation home at some other location. (Personally, I feel I have spent enough, and I don't have another location I'd like, but. . . . think winter home and summer home)

 

[Panina]

This year's MF (for 4 weeks) ran $6432. (Note: I did not enroll in the HGVC, so There is no fee for that in the MFs) Next year's will be 3X the next year's MF for an "A" Penthouses . . .

(It's my one luxury. I don't live at a fancy address or drive a fancy car.)

Oh yes, I now have an ascend (the $95 AMEX) card, and got enough points from paying my MFs on it to break up the Hawaii flight into DFW to West Coast, stay overnite at a Hilton brand hotel for free, and then fly on to Hawaii. And do the same on the way back. Much easier on the body. And I have a small rental storeroom ($708 a year), with ice chest and clothes and such so all I need is a "go" bag (that I always keep packed). . .

It is great that you have what you love.

Owning what you want where you want to go, like you do, is the ideal for those who like to go to the same place. Whereas cost per point or mfs are higher it really has no relevance, in my opinion, in the equation, as you will use it and renting would cost much more with no guarantee you could get it.

Just like you I got affiliates but did enroll them in hgvc for the times life gets in the way and I can’t go so I can deposit the points. Also to grandfather me into hgvc just in case affiliate status changes.

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

There are a lot of different way to enjoy timeshares.

It's not one-size-fits-all.

 

[Jacqueet]

And I have a small rental storeroom ($708 a year), with ice chest and clothes and such so all I need is a "go" bag (that I always keep packed). . .

We were musing about this possibility when we were there a few weeks ago...where do you rent this storeroom?

 

[bagabonz]

Tdub1313,
We bought a Sea World 7k at Parc Soleil presentation in 2011 for 10k. Found TUGG a few days after arriving home and quickly rescinded. Whew...
I started watching Ebay Bay Club HGVC listings and bid and won a 7k even year for $100. We love the Big Island!
That sale didn't include closing costs so we were out about 1K all in after everything transferred. I joined HGVC as I wanted ability to use at all HGVC properties and open season etc. Have never for a minute regretted that decision. We go to the Bay Club every year at least once since then. The property is very well maintained and upgraded constantly. The units are big and the lanais are the biggest. The staff is awesome. Gloria at the front desk is my honorary Island Auntie.
A few years ago while visiting with a friend I spotted a 4800 pt. odd year that had no bid. I bid $1 and won it. It was around Christmas time so I'm sure that had a effect on the auction. This one included closing costs on the seller. So thats all I paid other than the HGVC registration fee. The 7k unit family was selling as the parents had passed and they weren't interested in keeping it. The 4800 pt unit was being sold by a widow who couldn't use it any longer. Found these facts out from the title company during closing.
If you watch the Bay Club listings faithfully I'm sure you can find a great deal on a Bay Club unit. I'm treated exactly like an original owner when I visit. I'm sitting at the same pools with owners who paid 30k when they bought it. I've met many snowbirds from Canada and the midwest who spend the winter there. It's a great property.
Going back for 7 days on my 4800 pts from April 2-9. We've stayed at Kingsland just to check it out but I much prefer the units at Bay Club due to size. I will give the pools at Kingsland a nod.

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

We were musing about this possibility when we were there a few weeks ago...where do you rent this storeroom?

Aloha Plus Storage Packaging
73-4840 Kanalani Street
Kailua Kona, HI 96740

It's a bit flimsy, (I don't think it would take a hurricane) but for just things like an ice chest, suitcases with clothes, and a few cheap odds and ends, it suits me and my brother quite well.

It's downhill from Costco, in the same industrial complex.

Size is 4 ft x 4 ft x 8 Ft high. I put a set of home depot plastic shelves in it to stack the suitcases and what-not. They have push carts (but no human elevator, only a freight elevator - it's 2 stories high).

 

[Jacqueet]

That sounds perfect to me! Thank you!

 

[TDub1313]

Tdub1313,
We bought a Sea World 7k at Parc Soleil presentation in 2011 for 10k. Found TUGG a few days after arriving home and quickly rescinded. Whew...
I started watching Ebay Bay Club HGVC listings and bid and won a 7k even year for $100. We love the Big Island!
That sale didn't include closing costs so we were out about 1K all in after everything transferred. I joined HGVC as I wanted ability to use at all HGVC properties and open season etc. Have never for a minute regretted that decision. We go to the Bay Club every year at least once since then. The property is very well maintained and upgraded constantly. The units are big and the lanais are the biggest. The staff is awesome. Gloria at the front desk is my honorary Island Auntie.
A few years ago while visiting with a friend I spotted a 4800 pt. odd year that had no bid. I bid $1 and won it. It was around Christmas time so I'm sure that had a effect on the auction. This one included closing costs on the seller. So thats all I paid other than the HGVC registration fee. The 7k unit family was selling as the parents had passed and they weren't interested in keeping it. The 4800 pt unit was being sold by a widow who couldn't use it any longer. Found these facts out from the title company during closing.
If you watch the Bay Club listings faithfully I'm sure you can find a great deal on a Bay Club unit. I'm treated exactly like an original owner when I visit. I'm sitting at the same pools with owners who paid 30k when they bought it. I've met many snowbirds from Canada and the midwest who spend the winter there. It's a great property.
Going back for 7 days on my 4800 pts from April 2-9. We've stayed at Kingsland just to check it out but I much prefer the units at Bay Club due to size. I will give the pools at Kingsland a nod.

Bagabonz,
I appreciate the insight. In all of the looking I’ve done I find very few with a bad word to say about BC. I’ve never been to to Hawaii but I intend to as soon as I am able to find the right resale to jump on!

 

[vacationtime1]

Bagabonz,
I appreciate the insight. In all of the looking I’ve done I find very few with a bad word to say about BC. I’ve never been to to Hawaii but I intend to as soon as I am able to find the right resale to jump on!

If you have never been to Hawaii, I suggest you rent a couple of times on a couple of different islands before purchasing. It will enable you to make a more informed purchase decision.

 

[bagabonz]

vacationtime1 has good advice. While I love the Big Island and would never have bought on Maui or Oahu, some of my friends love those islands and prefer the night life. We like the BI because of its size and diversity. My second favorite is Kauai but due to its small size and large popularity, it gets very crowded at certain times and places.