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Resale Purchases - How Does VIP Work?

ronparise

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Just for clarity... Robert's statement "I have bought re-sale through Wyndham and those points do count towards VIP Status. They count as developer points." shouldn't be written off as "false".

Since his comment was "I have bought"... years ago Wyndham would resell contracts, whether foreclosed or turned in for larger contracts, and those reduced priced developer-sold point contracts would count towards VIP. The prices weren't close to owner-sold resale prices, but they were discounted... sometimes foreclosures were offered for what was supposedly the balance that the previous owner owed. I haven't done an "update/sales meeting" in years so I don't know if they still do this.

Also, back in early 2000's I recall Williamsburg Kingsgate doing an auction-style sale where points contracts could be had at a fraction of normal developer sales prices. I didn't buy (or bid) but I would have if that offer was made 2-3 years ago. It was considered a developer purchase.


To be clear, one cannot get VIP status or advance your status without a developer purchase>

To robert's point it used to be possible to buy a foreclosed contract from Wyndham, and it was considered a developer purchase and counted toward VIP

weeks at non wyndham resorts can be "PICed" (even if they were bought resale but that requires a developer purchase

and there was a time that you could convert certain weeks to points and the points would count toward VIP, but when I did it a developer purchase was needed...(I did it twice, and it cost me $12000 each time... Now you cant do it at all


And my dirty little secret, (it got me in some trouble with Wyndham) ....
another Tugger and I with the help of a Wyndham salesperson figured this out.....

There was a time that points deeded at affiliate resorts (El Cid, Angel Fire, etc) and certain Pahio converted weeks counted toward VIP.. No developer purchase was needed. I built three Platinum accounts this way and taught several others to do the same thing

The ops question had to do with how resale points are treated in a VIP account not how to get to VIP with resale points

So having said all that and to answer the ops question as clearly as possible.....Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. and to paraphrase Dorothy.... we are not in 2016 any more... rules have been changed, and loopholes closed.. You cant get to VIP without a visit to a Wyndham salesroom and writing a big check.. But once you are VIP all your resale points will enjoy your VIP status
 

ronparise

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Robert by his own admission made a knowingly false statement.

I have been offered the so called foreclosures several times in the last few years.
Everyone I have been offered
1. Would save me less than $5,000 on purchases that cost over $80,000.
2. Would just happen to be about the size of contract that was being discussed.

Where’s all the foreclosures that were half or three fourths paid off ? Every foreclosure was less than a 10% discount.
That’s why I think it’s a sales gimmick to make you think your getting a good deal.
I was offered foreclosures at a very good price much more than a 10% didcount.. The deal was ...pay past due loan payments and mf in cash, and then assume the loan... Sometime the loans were nearly paid off which made for a good deal
 

Silverdollar

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To be clear, one cannot get VIP status or advance your status without a developer purchase>

To robert's point it used to be possible to buy a foreclosed contract from Wyndham, and it was considered a developer purchase and counted toward VIP

weeks at non wyndham resorts can be "PICed" (even if they were bought resale but that requires a developer purchase

and there was a time that you could convert certain weeks to points and the points would count toward VIP, but when I did it a developer purchase was needed...(I did it twice, and it cost me $12000 each time... Now you cant do it at all


And my dirty little secret, (it got me in some trouble with Wyndham) ....
another Tugger and I with the help of a Wyndham salesperson figured this out.....

There was a time that points deeded at affiliate resorts (El Cid, Angel Fire, etc) and certain Pahio converted weeks counted toward VIP.. No developer purchase was needed. I built three Platinum accounts this way and taught several others to do the same thing

The ops question had to do with how resale points are treated in a VIP account not how to get to VIP with resale points

So having said all that and to answer the ops question as clearly as possible.....Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. and to paraphrase Dorothy.... we are not in 2016 any more... rules have been changed, and loopholes closed.. You cant get to VIP without a visit to a Wyndham salesroom and writing a big check.. But once you are VIP all your resale points will enjoy your VIP status
I am a VIP Platinum owner and have been with Wyndham (formerly Fairfield) for 35 years. Three years ago, I purchased 64,000 developer points at a Wyndham resort, and at that same sitting purchased an additional 413,000 "resale" (UDI) points (for $16,500 or $41/1000, with MF at $4.54) that counted as developer points from Wyndham. I would not have purchased the 64k if they had not been willing to do the 413k for that price and allow them to be counted as developer points and get VIP Platinum. (I already had two PIC weeks: one worth 254,000 points, and another worth 77,000, that counted toward VIP status). When these points were added to a couple other purchases I made a long time ago it gave me VIP Platinum. I have since put everything into CWA which provides me ARP at @70 Wyn resorts.

When I made the 64k and 413k purchases, I learned that there were four sales centers at Wyndham resorts across the chain: Ocean Ridge, Flagstaff, Fairfield Glade, and Pagosa Springs. Those four sales centers not only sold "resales" for units at their resort, but also other Wyndham resorts in their region. I cannot speak for three of the sales centers, but the location where I purchased, allowed me to see several pages of listings in their region and allowed me to choose the one(s) I wanted. The list included both UDI and deeded weeks.

But, like you said, "we are not in 2016 any more ... rules have changes...", so I don't know if these kind of purchases can be made any more. Or, if these Wyndham "resale" centers still exist. But, if someone is dead-set on becoming VIP, then it would be worth investigating when attending an update at one of these four resorts.

Is it worth it to become VIP Platinum? For me, I spent less than $50K to become Platinum. Due to the 50% discount on points and upgrade feature within 60 days of travel, along with plenty of free guest certificates, free housekeeping credits, etc. I have been able to rent out a sufficient number of units in the first three months of this year to more than pay my MFs for this year and still have plenty of points to travel. Like many VIPs in this forum, I am very frustrated with the current situation, but I am making the best of what I have. Would I recommend VIP Platinum at their current prices, website failures and changes to the system? At this time, I would have to say "no".
 

paxsarah

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The ops question had to do with how resale points are treated in a VIP account not how to get to VIP with resale points

The OP asked if someone had a million resale points and then bought a developer contract, would the resale points contribute to achieving VIP?
 

bendadin

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I need PIC advice. We are at an update being offered PIC. What does that entail? Do you still retain ownership and usage of your points?
 

Silverdollar

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I need PIC advice. We are at an update being offered PIC. What does that entail? Do you still retain ownership and usage of your points?
PIC is a non-Wyndham timeshare that you already own, but is not a part of any kind of points system. Wyndham gives you a certain number of points on an annual basis for those PIC weeks depending on whether it is a 1 BR, 2 BR or 3BR or higher, and whether it is low or high season. I believe the range is 77,000-254,000 points. You retain ownership of your PIC week(s) and still pay your maintenance fee(s) to those resorts as before.

I believe the current policy is the most PIC weeks allowed is two (it use to more, but they cut it back). It costs $89 a year to "PIC" your non-Wyndham week(s) with Wyndham. Also, Wyndham has a program fee they charge annually, but not much. You start the process by contacting the Wyndham/RCI representation and spacebanking your unit with RCI, but your maintenance fees must be paid prior to spacebanking. You must spacebank at least 10 months prior to your PIC week. This process is done each year. Of course, when spacebanking your unit, you are exchanging your week for points to use toward staying at a Wyndham resort.

One major caveat, it is my understanding that you must first make a new developer points purchase in order to roll your PIC week(s) into Wyndham. Another major caveat, is that after rolling you PIC week(s) into Wyndham, if that resort ever goes to a points program it will no longer be eligible for the PIC program.

Your PIC week(s) count toward VIP status, if that is important to you. It is my understanding that after you enter your PIC week(s) in the program, you do not have to spacebank your PIC week(s) every year, if you don't want. You can choose to vacation at your non-Wyndham week for that year, but you would lose those points to use with Wyndham that year.

Over a decade ago, I learned if I made a developer points purchase they would allow me roll my two non--Wyndham timeshares into the PIC program. Those two timeshares were worth 254,000 and 77,000. When added to the new purchase, and a Wyndham deed I had from a long time ago, it allowed me to reach VIP Gold. I have since become Platinum (see details on that purchase in another thread about "resales"). PM me if you can't find the thread.

If you are interested in going the PIC route, but don't currently have a non-Wyndham timeshare, I would recommend the following:

1. First, read the section in the Wyndham directory about the PIC program to become more familiar.
2. Call and speak to a Wyndham Owner Care rep with any questions you may have about the PIC program.
3. Research 3-bedroom/high season timeshares on the resale market. These are worth 254,000 when PICed with Wyndham and will count toward VIP status.
4. Make sure the timeshare is assigned a specific week and is not a part of a points program.
5. Find out the cost of the annual Maintenance fee and whether there are any special assessments.
6. Pay little or nothing for the timeshare resale. Often, the seller is willing to pay closing cost just to get out of the timeshare.
7. Visit a Wyndham resort and ask for the Sales Manager. Ask what is the smallest new developer points purchase you can buy in order to roll your PIC week(s) into Wyndham. Decide whether the purchase is worth it to receive the use of PIC points. If not, walk away. You can always wait and negotiate a better deal on another day.

Disclaimer: Wyndham is always changing things, so the information above is to the best of my knowledge. I welcome input/correction from others if I have posted anything incorrectly.
 

Cyrus24

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To the above response, I'll add that if you are wanting to PIC an RCI Points resort that you own, you can do that. I've done that, twice, most recently this year (2018) as I added more developer points to my account. You will need to contact RCI and have the unit removed from the points system and put into the weeks system. You contact RCI and they send you the form, it takes just a few days to accomplish that task going this direction. When you move the unit out of the points system, you have the option of making the move effective in the future, this is important if you're current year points are already committed to vacations. PIC'ing a property is a great way to up your VIP status AND get more points for use inside the Wyndham system. I have no regrets.
 

bendadin

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So 84k developer points WBC tower 6 . They are using PIC express on my DVC accounts so this 84k makes us silver. We are retaining usage of DVC. I have 540k odd and 873 even currently.

Am I missing anything?
 

Cyrus24

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I wish I could help but I'm not familiar with the term 'express' as it relates to PIC nor am I familiar with the DVC points/weeks system.
 

tschwa2

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PIC express only last for 5 years and then you would lose the status. PIC express counts toward status but you can never (not that you would want to with DVC) but the credited points within Wyndham.
 

Cyrus24

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I have PIC Plus, no expiration. Not sure I'd like the express option if I had to buy developer points to only get 5 years. Thanks for explaining 'express'.
 

Braindead

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I have PIC Plus also. Personally I wouldn’t do the Express either.
Also PIC weeks are non transferable. They cannot be inherited or transferred to family members and stay in the PIC program
 

bendadin

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PIC express only last for 5 years and then you would lose the status. PIC express counts toward status but you can never (not that you would want to with DVC) but the credited points within Wyndham.

This is the sticking point. We are hearing that they only look to see if you still own it, and you retain VIP status
 

tschwa2

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Last edited:

Cyrus24

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We are hearing that they only look to see if you still own it, and you retain VIP status
Remember, when the lips are moving, they could be lying. Be careful.
 

tschwa2

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This is the sticking point. We are hearing that they only look to see if you still own it, and you retain VIP status
What your hearing doesn't matter. It is what is in the contract that matters. The sales person could be lying and knows that PIC express is only for 5 years but pretending like he is confusing it with PIC plus so if you push to get it in writing in the contract and the manager comes over he can play dumb. Or he might really be confusing the two programs and doesn't know any better. Either way you can't use DVC to get you to permanent vip status.
 

ronparise

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The OP asked if someone had a million resale points and then bought a developer contract, would the resale points contribute to achieving VIP?


exactly right

and I think if you wade through all the posts that followed, you would (he would) find the answer.


The answer, by the way, is no
 

DRIless

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They have closed a bunch of loopholes over the last 10 years. The best case scenario buying retail, I would expect to pay at least $100,000 for platinum. If you use PIC points and work hard at it you might be able to do it for $35,000-$40,000 but that may only get you gold and not platinum.

Just for clarity... Robert's statement "I have bought re-sale through Wyndham and those points do count towards VIP Status. They count as developer points." shouldn't be written off as "false".

Since his comment was "I have bought"... years ago Wyndham would resell contracts, whether foreclosed or turned in for larger contracts, and those reduced priced developer-sold point contracts would count towards VIP. The prices weren't close to owner-sold resale prices, but they were discounted... sometimes foreclosures were offered for what was supposedly the balance that the previous owner owed. I haven't done an "update/sales meeting" in years so I don't know if they still do this.

Also, back in early 2000's I recall Williamsburg Kingsgate doing an auction-style sale where points contracts could be had at a fraction of normal developer sales prices. I didn't buy (or bid) but I would have if that offer was made 2-3 years ago. It was considered a developer purchase.
Quite awhile back I bought an EOY 1BR at a resort in my hometown, the salesman gave me the phone number to Wyndham Telesales, whatever the product they were selling, deeds with associated points, were sold at 50% off the current sales price/point and came with all benefits toward VIP status including adding PICs. I bought enough to couple with a PIC of a 2BR and a 3BR and got to old Platinum level. The contact I had was a specific personal number at Wyndham and out of curiosity I just called it and it is out of service. On the odd occasion when I succumb to the "update" they usually try to scare me with the threat that one or both of my PICs may not 'qualify' in the future.
 

bendadin

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So there are 2 PIC. One is plus and one is express (really bad deal.) So PIC Plus is permanent, correct, other than the program fee and $89 each to deposit?
 

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PIC Plus is Permanent. I converted an RCI Points resort to Weeks inside the required 30 days following a Developer Points purchase earlier this year and all has worked as explained in other posts. Depositing the week is a process that is explained in other posts, as well. It's not at all complicated, there are just some timelines that you have to follow. I was very concerned about the PIC process until I did it the first time. But, it works. The Program Fee is .$58/1000 points, my 2BR costs $89/year and my 3BR costs $147/year.
 

ronparise

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PIC Plus is Permanent. I converted an RCI Points resort to Weeks inside the required 30 days following a Developer Points purchase earlier this year and all has worked as explained in other posts. Depositing the week is a process that is explained in other posts, as well. It's not at all complicated, there are just some timelines that you have to follow. I was very concerned about the PIC process until I did it the first time. But, it works. The Program Fee is .$58/1000 points, my 2BR costs $89/year and my 3BR costs $147/year.

How do your maintenance fees work out on a dollars per 1000 points basis?

Depending on your week’s mf it could be very good or very bad
 

Cyrus24

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How do your maintenance fees work out on a dollars per 1000 points basis?

Depending on your week’s mf it could be very good or very bad
2BR was $699 or $4.54/1000 inside PIC and the 3BR was $992 or $3.91/1000 inside PIC. Plus, the program fee at $.58/1000. Fees were from the most recent billings. Both units were purchased resale and the 3BR for PIC is the better deal. Both were just 'average' for points when looking at the cost/1000 inside RCI. We use our points for personal/family vacations, so I'm not looking to make money. We do, however, appreciate the value that comes with using timeshares (Wyndham/RCI resorts) for vacation stays. What we found was that we were using Wyndham more than RCI for stays, so PIC'ing (plus VIP status) was a good option for us.
 

BibbityBoppity

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Robert by his own admission made a knowingly false statement.

I have been offered the so called foreclosures several times in the last few years.
Everyone I have been offered
1. Would save me less than $5,000 on purchases that cost over $80,000.
2. Would just happen to be about the size of contract that was being discussed.

Where’s all the foreclosures that were half or three fourths paid off ? Every foreclosure was less than a 10% discount.
That’s why I think it’s a sales gimmick to make you think your getting a good deal.


Unless you’re buying corporate. Then you’re saving usually somewhere from 40-45% off retail.
 

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Unless you’re buying corporate. Then you’re saving usually somewhere from 40-45% off retail.
I will clarify that the savings that I have personally seen on so called foreclosures was less than 10% or $5,000 from what I could have bought the points for not full rack rate. The foreclosures offers came with no bonus points. That’s why I stated it was a sales gimmick to me.
If you added the value of the bonus points to the foreclosures the purchase would end being about the same.
I haven’t been to one of the four Wyndham resale offices. So I still think what I was offered was nothing but a sales gimmick to get you to buy.

I have bought from corporate at the 40-45% off full rack rate or retail. I sure hope there’s nobody on here that paid full rack rate or retail for points
 
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