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Rescinding, but still considering options

Discussion in 'Diamond Resorts International / Embarc Resorts' started by LanceM, Jun 10, 2018.

  1. LanceM

    LanceM Guest

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    After purchasing a DRI Sampler, I made my first visit to a timeshare and got talked into buying a timeshare which I had not intended when I went there. So in doing my after the fact research I found this site and have typed up my Rescind Notice to be sent out tomorrow within the Rescind Window. Thank you for this site and the information herein.

    As I read on other post, I received some of the same information as other (and did not read all of the fine print). I thought that they were offering real point values (20,000 of real point value with limitations) and then was informed at the second presentation that these have a special Sampler Point system that is about 1/4 the value of the real point system. Second I was told that the Club Combinations was For Life upon buying the Sampler, then informed at the second visit that is not true. I was told that only the first stay on the sampler was to a limited list of resorts, again not true. I was told that the Full Price of the Sampler would be applied as a credit if I bought a TS any time later during the sampler use, which is true (maybe) only if enough points are purchased and they are purchased on the first Sampler stay.

    However, I was going to overlook all these mistakes because my wife and I really liked these trips to Sedona and with our kids out of high school we have time to take the quick getaways. However, after purchasing I am not sure that I can trust the sales pitches. First, they only credited the portion of the Sampler that I had already paid which was 39% even though we qualified for 50% according to the Sampler documents.

    Since I am still considering ownership, I have a few questions. I am interested in the drivable vacations from Phoenix AZ which DRI has Sedona, Scottsdale, Lake Havasu, El Paso, and Palm Springs in easy distance.

    1. The sale pitch is that rooms are regularly deeply discounted. The salesperson showed pricing on their phone as low as 550 for a week at the Ridge on Sedona Golf Course. Then stated that if booked within 30 days of the stay, a 75% discount (2 x 50% discounts) would apply making the stay 137.5 points for a week or as little as 13.75 points per week night; thus making a one night stay on the ridge at that time $4.68 for a night (13.75 x 25% x 10% weeknight stay x $0.34 /flex point). Is this realistic? And if so, I would assume this is the same for resale points as well (except I’m not sure if Diamond Flexibility points are available through resale).

    Similar listings and points were shown for Palm Springs and Italy.

    2. It sounds as if DRI limits resale US Collection points to the collection only. No trade to II for other destinations. True? Also, is Club Combinations included with resale or only developer purchase, as this would still give access to other destinations?

    3. Is there other brands that may have better offers if we would like Sedona to be part of the profile?

    4. It seems in resale, Non-US Collection Resorts, Travel Services, Member Benefits (Cruises, Guided tours, etc.), Diamond Luxury and Interval International are all out; but those don’t seem nearly worth the price tag. Not sure on some of the other perks (Diamond Flexibility Points, Instant Getaways/Discount Deals, Associate Members - kids). Are there any other limitations on resale I should be aware of?

    I hope to have a better understanding before I go to buy again so that I feel good about what I am getting. For now we are stuck with the Sampler even though it doesn’t seem to be a good deal any more, but we’ll make the most of it. Thanks for your help.
     
  2. TUGBrian

    TUGBrian Administrator

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    the fact you still have questions and want to learn more is easily the #1 reason to rescind!

    im sure some other DRI owners will chime in with answers for your other questions!
     
  3. DanZale2000

    DanZale2000 TUG Member

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    The 50% discount is for 7 days on standard check-in days 59 days in advance. Short stay and any check-in day at 30 days in advance. There is no 75% discount at 30 days.

    I've no idea where the sales guy gets 550 for a week. A studio is 4,500 points for most of the year. 50% is 2,250.

    The 50% discounts apply only to DRI managed resorts, not to affiliate resorts. They also apply to resale points.

    Flexibility is not available to resale points.

    The point tables are available here:
    https://cmsprod.diamondresorts.com/sites/default/files/us-member-benefits-book-combined_6.pdf

    The limits on resale points are true. Club Combo units can not be reserved with resale points.


    Hyatt and Vacation Internationale have timeshare resorts in Sedona.

    I think you have the it covered.
     
    TUGBrian likes this.
  4. LanceM

    LanceM Guest

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    I read that in the Member Directory on the tablet they gave me and came to the same conclusion. 50% off standard stay at 59 days and short stay at 30 days. I went back to ask them about it and they insisted that it stacked and gave me their presentation flier as proof that says, "30 days or less up to 75% off."
    I knew something didn't seem right, but I was hoping the truth was somewhere in the middle of they completely lied and they were telling the truth; but, they completely lied it seems.
    The rep logged into DRI website and used a search for 7 day stays at a few locations and the results came back as low as 550-600, many others 1700-2000 for a 1 Bdr; then stated 50%-75% off that. I was hopeful, but again it seemed to low. The rep insisted that she regularly stays for $7-15 per night on last minute bookings.
    Your link is exactly the same as the sampler points system, so again they were wrong when saying the real point system was cheaper; Sampler just doesn't allow the 50% discount.
    I am amazed that they would go that far to misrepresent the product which only turns out upset owners when they don't get what they were promised.
    This greatly changes the cost comparison to online booking sites. With a Full Purchase price, I can hardly imagine how far out the break even point is. Seems online pricing has changed the game a lot. There is clearly ways to save with just maintenance fees to pay for, but the restrictions/requirements/obligations to get the savings weigh on the analysis.

    All this in mind, I will look at the others companies (Hyatt and VI) and try to figure out if even the resale is worth it given the restrictions. May be worth it to use rentals or other booking sites (e.g. HomeAway).

    Thanks
     
  5. youppi

    youppi TUG Member

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    75% discount are special discount at some resorts and they are not necessarily under 30 days.
    There is no unit under 1000 pts for 7 days in USA at this moment except for a studio at Cypress Point for 625 pts (max sleeping capacity of 2).
    For 5 night and a sleeping capacity >2, there is many under 1000 pts.
    upload_2018-6-11_7-49-57.png


    The lowest number of point in USA at this moment for 7 days and a sleeping capacity >2 are these units
    upload_2018-6-11_7-39-23.png
     
  6. RLS50

    RLS50 TUG Member

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    Lance,

    Another alternative that you may or may not have considered, instead of buying points at this time (or committing major money to points), why not pick your favorite resort within driving distance and buy a deeded week there?

    Or buy 2 deeded weeks? Maybe one in Sedona and one in Palm Springs? And to give you even more flexibility why not buy maybe a Diamond property in Sedona and maybe a Marriott property in Palm Springs?

    That might accomplish all your objectives. You would get (1) access to internal trading inside Diamond (Destination Exchange) and (2) have Marriott to Marriott preference trading in Interval International and (3) have access to heavily discounted last minute Getaways and Accommodation Certificates in II.

    You could also do this for a fraction of your costs to join any points system, especially if you ever plan on "washing" any "dirty" points you buy resale.

    And remember, typically the maintenance fee costs for your deeded week will only cost you 50% of the price for that same week in points. Sometimes the dollar cost of your points can be even higher during peak season. Although deeded weeks will typically cost more during low season.

    So ideally you buy and use your deeded weeks during prime season (these also have the highest trading value) and use heavily discounted Getaways in II for off-season travel.
     
  7. RLS50

    RLS50 TUG Member

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    Lance,

    Since you are West / Southwest, you might want to also investigate the WorldMark points system?

    Arizona- 4 properties
    New Mexico - 3 properties
    California - 17 properties
    Nevada - 6 properties
    Utah - 4 properties
    Colorado - 3 properties
    Idaho - 2 properties
    Mexico - 2 properties
    Hawaii - 4 properties
    Etc
    Etc
     
  8. geist1223

    geist1223 Guest

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    Diamond Resorts Intermnational Hawaiian Collection 25,000
    Actually Worldmark has 4 properties in Mexico. It bought 2 Resorts from RVC/Club Regina several years ago - Isla Mujeres and Zihuatanejo. This happened about the same time they acquired parts of several Resorts from RVC in the USA. Wyndham took over Management of the USA Properties for RVC. By chance (?¿) this happened at the same time RVC sold to Wyndham a Prime piece of Real Estate in Park City and Wyndham built its Park City Resort.
     
  9. LanceM

    LanceM Guest

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    Ok. Perhaps back to the middle ground. This was the format, except I don't remember the discount column. Discounts would have had to been about 85% to arrive at the numbers I saw which were for a much wider date range search.
    But she definitely stated that the 50% at 59 days out applied on top of this rate and another 50% (75% total) if booked within 30 days of arrival.

    Those would be deeded weeks on resale since I am assuming developers only want to sell points anymore. I would have to look into the difference in maintenance costs. Multiple systems may be a good solution for variety, but I also assume this increases the overall maintenance costs.

    I have seen WorldMark recommended, not sure the locations are as much a fit. But I will consider.
     
  10. clifffaith

    clifffaith TUG Member

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    Wouldn't recommend Diamond to anyone for any reason -- big mistake on our part. Worldmark however is a terrific system if you are in the western US.
     
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  11. RLS50

    RLS50 TUG Member

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    To be clear you only buy deeded weeks for reserving prime / platinum season usage for that area. This will guarantee you the unit size / location you want and guarantee availability. Then you supplement your off-season and short stays with II Getaways.

    As an example of what I mean, I see a 2BR/2BA EOYE at Sedona Summit for free with free closing and transfer and free 2018 usage. Maintenance fees start in 2019 at $455 per year (so 2018 would be free but $910ish for 2020 usage). It's a floating Week 1-52. It's a Diamond property.

    Not saying that is something you should buy, just throwing something out there to compare against points. The value of your deeded week compared to points would increase or decrease depending on the Week you secured for usage (i.e. Week 26).
     
  12. geist1223

    geist1223 Guest

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    We own a lot of Worldmark. We own some Diamond - more resorts in Hawaii, Europe, and Asia.
     
  13. youppi

    youppi TUG Member

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    Wider date range search!!! It's possible that they put up to 14 months but I put around 12 months in the search range (June 2018 to June 2019). So, my search was wide enough to show that there is only few units under 1500 pts.

    There is no discount on top of the rate displayed by a search. This is a lie.
    Rates shown include the discount. The discount column is shown only when we use the point saver search.
    The point saver search shows only discounted units. The others search methods available (simple search, flexible search) don't show the discounted column but all rates displayed include the discount if there's one (you just don't know that the rate you see is the regular rate or a discounted rate).

    There is no 50% on top of a 50% for a 75% total. This is a lie.

    From time to time, DRI discounted some resorts in low season at up to 75% like Cypress Points in Orlando for July/August (75%) and can be more than 59 days in advance like the example below.

    There is new units at 1000 pts now using point saver search
    upload_2018-6-11_20-28-15.png

    same result without the discount column using flexible search
    upload_2018-6-11_20-30-9.png
     
  14. youppi

    youppi TUG Member

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    Buying a deeded week where you want to go is a good idea but this example may be not.
    I don't know the distribution but from US and HI Collection financial reports, there is 197 and 19 units of the 254 units at Sedona Summit in US and HI Collection trust respectively. I don't know how many units are in the CA Collection. So, buying a float 1-52 may be harder to reserve the unit/week he wants compared to own a dedicated season or week at this resort because of the high volume of units in trust Collections.
     
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  15. RLS50

    RLS50 TUG Member

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    Thanks for that important detail. Yes, I agree that before buying any deeded week more research would be needed.
     
  16. izzymail

    izzymail Guest

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    Definitely recommend WorldMark!!
     
  17. LanceM

    LanceM Guest

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    See that now. At first I just looked at the Jun to Jun not the year. I knew something didn't feel right between what they were saying and what I read.
    Not sure how she had so many more returns on her search. I wouldn't think she had extra discounts or more inventory because of being an employee, but there were definitely more on her search than you have showing on your search. All gives me a bad feeling about their selling practices.
     
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  18. LanceM

    LanceM Guest

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    With 3 recommendations for WorldMark, I will have to use my Club Select (Club Combos) to visit a WorldMark resort. So either WorldMark Pinetop or maybe WorldMark Palm Springs.
     
  19. izzymail

    izzymail Guest

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    Just stayed at one of the Palm springs properties and it was not great. It is not actually a WorldMark resort but rather a small independent property that has old hotel rooms that have been combined into units. Followed that with a stay at WorldMark Oceanside, which was fantastic.
     
  20. geist1223

    geist1223 Guest

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    We have owned Worldmark since 2002. We actually bought our first Account together before we were married. As for buying there are 2 options: (1) Buy from the Developer much higher costs but have ability to Book Directly into Worldmark South Pacific [Australia and New Zealand] and Wyndham Resorts through Wyndham Pass; and, (2) Buy resell and save lots of money Book directly only into the 80 to 90 Worldmark Resorts.

    We have greatly enjoyed our Worldmark. We have traveled all over the USA, Fiji, Mexico, British Columbia, and traded into Ireland, Wales, and Scotland. We are currently in Victoria, BC. The Worldmark is located on the Inner Harbour and you can watch the Float Planes land and take off. We own both Developer Points and Resell Points. We have made 3 trips Down Under to include Tasmania.
     

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