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Rumor: HICV Changing to 100% UDI

skotrla

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Anyone heard this rumor? Any details on how it would work?

I would think this would only affect new deeds issued by OLCC - I don't think they would try to convert all existing deeds to UDI, but I don't really have any experience in this area. Anyone have any experience with other clubs that converted from fixed weeks to UDI, specifically the impact on existing deeds?

-Scott
Owner, HICV Google+ Group
 

Bmatrose

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Anyone heard this rumor? Any details on how it would work?

I would think this would only affect new deeds issued by OLCC - I don't think they would try to convert all existing deeds to UDI, but I don't really have any experience in this area. Anyone have any experience with other clubs that converted from fixed weeks to UDI, specifically the impact on existing deeds?

-Scott
Owner, HICV Google+ Group
It seems like they are moving forward with any new properties to be UDI. If not mistaken, the new Myrtle Beach Signature, the new Seaside Signatures, Scottsdale and I'm assuming the new Cape Canaveral Signatures are all UDI
 

skotrla

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It seems like they are moving forward with any new properties to be UDI. If not mistaken, the new Myrtle Beach Signature, the new Seaside Signatures, Scottsdale and I'm assuming the new Cape Canaveral Signatures are all UDI

Agreed, that seems to be the trend with new properties - it's existing properties that I am curious about. What would the process be for converting existing Orange Lake deeds to UDI?

-Scott
 

tschwa2

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Agreed, that seems to be the trend with new properties - it's existing properties that I am curious about. What would the process be for converting existing Orange Lake deeds to UDI?

-Scott
They couldn't. It was originally sold as deeds. They would have to take back 100% of the deeds and make drastic changes to the offering statement. What they could do is what they did with SL-even though I am not sure of that mechanism because it isn't the way other resorts make that type of change, and have the deeded weeks upon resale eligible to join HICV with a new purchase or a large fee and have the fee structure as UDI based on having the owner voluntarily joining HICV. I don't think they could do this for any currently enrolled HICV weeks. They would have to wait until the owner sold or transferred the unit to a non immediate family member.

What most other developers do, in order to change the MF structure to one based on the number of points is to take the deed and enroll it in a trust. The individual owner would not buy or receive a deed if they turned one in. They would receive a beneficial interest in the trust. The trick to this though would be upon resale it would still be a beneficial interest to the trust and would have access to the other properties in the trust although maybe not the entire HICV portfolio as it exists outside of the trust. HICV doesn't want this because they want to be able to resell enrollment with every resale. Marriott gets around this by requiring a $2000-$4000 fee based on the number of beneficial interest transferred in order to participate and make reservations more than 60 days out.

HICV
 

skotrla

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They couldn't. It was originally sold as deeds. They would have to take back 100% of the deeds and make drastic changes to the offering statement. What they could do is what they did with SL-even though I am not sure of that mechanism because it isn't the way other resorts make that type of change, and have the deeded weeks upon resale eligible to join HICV with a new purchase or a large fee and have the fee structure as UDI based on having the owner voluntarily joining HICV. I don't think they could do this for any currently enrolled HICV weeks. They would have to wait until the owner sold or transferred the unit to a non immediate family member.

What most other developers do, in order to change the MF structure to one based on the number of points is to take the deed and enroll it in a trust. The individual owner would not buy or receive a deed if they turned one in. They would receive a beneficial interest in the trust. The trick to this though would be upon resale it would still be a beneficial interest to the trust and would have access to the other properties in the trust although maybe not the entire HICV portfolio as it exists outside of the trust. HICV doesn't want this because they want to be able to resell enrollment with every resale. Marriott gets around this by requiring a $2000-$4000 fee based on the number of beneficial interest transferred in order to participate and make reservations more than 60 days out.

HICV

So to convert their existing weeks inventory to UDI, they would put them all in a trust and then sell interests in the trust - are interests in the trust still transferred as deeds?

-Scott
 

Caligirlfrtx

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What is udi?
 

TUGBrian

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id expect to see some hard sales pushes for deeded owners to convert....
 

tschwa2

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So to convert their existing weeks inventory to UDI, they would put them all in a trust and then sell interests in the trust - are interests in the trust still transferred as deeds?

-Scott

No the deed it transferred into the trust. That is the deed that gets recorded with the county. What the buyer gets is a beneficial interest in the trust worth x number of points. They may associate certain weeks or partial weeks in that contract certificate but the contract is not recorded with the county deed office. Some plans with this type of ownership give you additional booking rights to the unit listed on the contract, for example you can book that week earlier than other owners whereas others may list sometype of inventory on the contract simply for inventory control to prove they aren't overselling the trust.
 
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From what people on the HICV Facebook sites are saying, it is true. If you buy new, it will be the UDI points. If you own a Week (or points based on a week), you will stay as such. The rumor is, they want to bring in more $$$ so they can expand to more areas.

TS
 

tschwa2

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Trusts also make it easier to sell stinker weeks, mixed in with a few good and average ones and can sell people on the carrots even though its more dirt than vegetables.
 

skotrla

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Trusts also make it easier to sell stinker weeks, mixed in with a few good and average ones and can sell people on the carrots even though its more dirt than vegetables.
Will maintenance per point be on a per resort basis or the same across all units in the trust? Lake Geneva's maintenance of $5.84/1K across the board is more fair than resorts that range from $4-$20 based on unit size and season. I'm all about gaming the system, but I can't complain about making the system more fair.

-Scott
 

skotrla

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From what people on the HICV Facebook sites are saying, it is true. If you buy new, it will be the UDI points. If you own a Week (or points based on a week), you will stay as such. The rumor is, they want to bring in more $$$ so they can expand to more areas.

TS

How does selling UDI instead of regular deeds get more money? Unless they are having inventory shortages and need to combine poor units with good units to get more average units to sell? It seems that exercising ROFR as they are now gets them inventory to sell as they have been.

-Scott
 

tschwa2

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Will maintenance per point be on a per resort basis or the same across all units in the trust? Lake Geneva's maintenance of $5.84/1K across the board is more fair than resorts that range from $4-$20 based on unit size and season. I'm all about gaming the system, but I can't complain about making the system more fair.

-Scott
Yes. If you buy in the trust the points will be more of an average. There are several ways they can structure that though. One way incorporates a base fee in addition to a flat rate per point. This way favors those with more points because the flat fee is paid whether you are then paying for 50,000 points or 200,000 points. The other way is to make it a flat rate per point. Either way you won't see the large spread between the off season and the peak season MF/point.

And that is one way it makes it easier to sell the off season weeks that they have trouble selling and have trouble keeping owners paying MF's on. The person with the 49,000 points in a value studio at Orange lake might be paying just over $900 MF. With the trust they could probably sell 50,000 point packages with MF $450 or less. My guess is trust fund MF will be in the $8-9 range which is high but it will also be easier to sell more $15,000-$20,000 packages to get people in the door with reasonable total MF;s with the promise of banking and borrowing and renting extra points.
 
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Bmatrose

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Yes. If you buy in the trust the points will be more of an average. There are several ways they can structure that though. One way incorporates a base fee in addition to a flat rate per point. This way favors those with more points because the flat fee is paid whether you are then paying for 50,000 points or 200,000 points. The other way is to make it a flat rate per point. Either way you won't see the large spread between the off season and the peak season MF/point.

And that is one way it makes it easier to sell the off season weeks that they have trouble selling and have trouble keeping owners paying MF's on. The person with the 49,000 points in a value studio at Orange lake might be paying just over $900 MF. With the trust they could probably sell 50,000 point packages with MF $450 or less. My guess is trust fund MF will be in the $8-9 range which is high but it will also be easier to sell more $15,000-$20,000 packages to get people in the door with reasonable total MF;s with the promise of banking and borrowing and renting extra points.

I heard yesterday a guy purchased 100,000 points out of the new trust and the Maintenance was $1050...Thats way to high
 

skotrla

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I heard yesterday a guy purchased 100,000 points out of the new trust and the Maintenance was $1050...Thats way to high

Wow, if that's all they are selling now, that would make resale units at points resorts in the $5-$6 range like Lake Geneva an even better deal than they already were.

-Scott
 

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How does this affect resale points at South Beach?
 

Caligirlfrtx

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Seems like it would raise the value - good for sellers but not for buyers.

-Scott
Would the points still be transferable? Would the MF's go way up?
 

silentg

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I haven’t heard anything. So I won’t do anything.
 

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The family and I just got back from our original spring break week that started us in to this whole timeshare thing. Since I had read about the UDI possibility, when they offered the 'owner update' we decided to go. Here's the couple of nuggets I picked up.

- The UDI (they called it a land trust) is real, and you folks on TUG of course understand it better than the people trying to sell it from what I can tell.
- I own two Lake Geneva deeds, one worth 30k and one worth 70k. The offer they eventually made was to take the 30k unit back from me and sell me a 130k point land trust unit technically deeded for the Georgia property. If I accepted that offer, then they would make the 70k point unit 'count' towards my status and the deal would push me from premier to prestige. Total cost was around $26k for 100k points plus the conversion of a 70k unit.
- From what I could tell, the 130k point unit from the UDI would have a $1014 annual assessment or $7.80/1k points. That's a little different number than the one someone heard about above, but since the offer was put in front of me and taken away quickly, I might have missed something.

At this point, the family and I will gladly keep our premier status and our $26k. HICV just couldn't believe I would pass up the deal - it was a once in a lifetime offer.
 

skotrla

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The family and I just got back from our original spring break week that started us in to this whole timeshare thing. Since I had read about the UDI possibility, when they offered the 'owner update' we decided to go. Here's the couple of nuggets I picked up.

- The UDI (they called it a land trust) is real, and you folks on TUG of course understand it better than the people trying to sell it from what I can tell.
- I own two Lake Geneva deeds, one worth 30k and one worth 70k. The offer they eventually made was to take the 30k unit back from me and sell me a 130k point land trust unit technically deeded for the Georgia property. If I accepted that offer, then they would make the 70k point unit 'count' towards my status and the deal would push me from premier to prestige. Total cost was around $26k for 100k points plus the conversion of a 70k unit.
- From what I could tell, the 130k point unit from the UDI would have a $1014 annual assessment or $7.80/1k points. That's a little different number than the one someone heard about above, but since the offer was put in front of me and taken away quickly, I might have missed something.

At this point, the family and I will gladly keep our premier status and our $26k. HICV just couldn't believe I would pass up the deal - it was a once in a lifetime offer.

How does HICV think anyone could ever get $26K in benefits from a small status bump?

-Scott
 

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I'm really confused by this and I'm hoping someone can shed some light on this. I know that HICV points only transfer on resale at a small number of resorts so does this mean that if your deed/contract shows that you own 300,000 UDI points at Scottsdale Resort, does that mean that your buyer will get those points or is there still some kind of underlying assigned unit/week that will be what is transferred? And... if those points transfer, can you use them at other HICV resorts or just Scottsdale? TIA!
 

Caligirlfrtx

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I'm really confused by this and I'm hoping someone can shed some light on this. I know that HICV points only transfer on resale at a small number of resorts so does this mean that if your deed/contract shows that you own 300,000 UDI points at Scottsdale Resort, does that mean that your buyer will get those points or is there still some kind of underlying assigned unit/week that will be what is transferred? And... if those points transfer, can you use them at other HICV resorts or just Scottsdale? TIA!


Scottsdale points will not transfer. It will revert back to the week on your deed.
 
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