Rumor: HICV Changing to 100% UDI

[tschwa2]

I'm really confused by this and I'm hoping someone can shed some light on this. I know that HICV points only transfer on resale at a small number of resorts so does this mean that if your deed/contract shows that you own 300,000 UDI points at Scottsdale Resort, does that mean that your buyer will get those points or is there still some kind of underlying assigned unit/week that will be what is transferred? And... if those points transfer, can you use them at other HICV resorts or just Scottsdale? TIA!

Its hard to say without reading the underlying documents associated but by guess would be that the points upon resale would only be useable at Scottsdale and not within the HICV system. If it truely is a UDI there is no deeded week associated with the points. If it is actually being sold as a converted fixed or float week it will revert back to the week.

If they convey it to the trust then it would be usable within the trust after resale but they are putting all kinds of restrictions on usage within the trust if you are not a member of HICV (the vacation club)

 

[jjan8989]

Its hard to say without reading the underlying documents associated but by guess would be that the points upon resale would only be useable at Scottsdale and not within the HICV system. If it truely is a UDI there is no deeded week associated with the points. If it is actually being sold as a converted fixed or float week it will revert back to the week.

If they convey it to the trust then it would be usable within the trust after resale but they are putting all kinds of restrictions on usage within the trust if you are not a member of HICV (the vacation club)

This would be someone that bought directly as UDI points. Attached is how it is deeded, if that is helpful to determine what could be sold.

It seems that it would have to be points, but I know that you can never count on the obvious answer as being true.

 

[Caligirlfrtx]

Its hard to say without reading the underlying documents associated but by guess would be that the points upon resale would only be useable at Scottsdale and not within the HICV system. If it truely is a UDI there is no deeded week associated with the points. If it is actually being sold as a converted fixed or float week it will revert back to the week.

If they convey it to the trust then it would be usable within the trust after resale but they are putting all kinds of restrictions on usage within the trust if you are not a member of HICV (the vacation club)

I still don't have a clear understanding of the points at locations that do transfer such as Gatlinburg, do these still transfer? I don't know/understand what UDI means for the resale market.

 

[tschwa2]

I still don't have a clear understanding of the points at locations that do transfer such as Gatlinburg, do these still transfer? I don't know/understand what UDI means for the resale market.

As long as you are buying a direct deed at Gatlinburg, Wisconsin and Myrtle Beach, the points will still transfer upon resale. HICV will probably be even more aggressive with ROFR for the good weeks and will then add those to the trust. Once in the trust they will transfer as severely limited use trust points upon resale.

UDI means undivided Interest. Wisconsin is a UDI. They take the property as a whole and instead of dividing it by weeks to sell they assign each week an amount of points to get the whole resort and then directly sell undivided interests as represented in points. You can buy 20,000 or 500,000 points but neither is associated with a specific week or unit. This is how they will be selling Scottsdale and other new signature properties unless they decide to put them in the trust and then sell interests in the trust.

While a UDI will always be points it doesn't mean they have to allow those points to be used within the HICV system. They way they wrote the agreement when they obtained Wisconsin it does for that property. I don't think they are doing this for the new properties. They points will still be points but they will only be good at the home resort (in the specific HOA) upon resale.

 

[Bmatrose]

I think UDI's are different then normal units...They havent been around long enough to determine how resales work...Havent seen many Scottsdales or Myrtle Beach Signature Units on the open market.

 

[skotrla]

As long as you are buying a direct deed at Gatlinburg, Wisconsin and Myrtle Beach, the points will still transfer upon resale. HICV will probably be even more aggressive with ROFR for the good weeks and will then add those to the trust. Once in the trust they will transfer as severely limited use trust points upon resale.

UDI means undivided Interest. Wisconsin is a UDI. They take the property as a whole and instead of dividing it by weeks to sell they assign each week an amount of points to get the whole resort and then directly sell undivided interests as represented in points. You can buy 20,000 or 500,000 points but neither is associated with a specific week or unit. This is how they will be selling Scottsdale and other new signature properties unless they decide to put them in the trust and then sell interests in the trust.

While a UDI will always be points it doesn't mean they have to allow those points to be used within the HICV system. They way they wrote the agreement when they obtained Wisconsin it does for that property. I don't think they are doing this for the new properties. They points will still be points but they will only be good at the home resort (in the specific HOA) upon resale.

Lake Geneva, South Beach, and Smoky Mountain use HICV points for their reservation system - I'm not convinced they couldn't restrict those points to be confined within the resort. I'm not sure why Scottsdale would be any different since it is UDI just like Lake Geneva. I've never seen a Scottsdale resale unit, but it would be great if someone could buy one and let us know how it goes.

-Scott

 

[tschwa2]

If HICV can't find a legal way to prevent the new UDI's from transferring the right to keep HICV club membership upon resale , then they will likely convey it all to the trust first before selling. They want to be able to sell the same product over and over without creating a product that they can only make the big profit once. As it is with those 3 properties all HICV has to do is to be aggressive with ROFR for as many Lake Geneva contracts, although they still might not worry about the tiny ones and all of the half way decent SB and SM and then anyone who wants in will have to buy direct. Once they are set up as mandatory resorts -like those 3 they really can't take that back but they can make sure that new resorts aren't set up and originally sold that way.
HICV has been doing everything to destroy the secondary market. Just withholding elite benefits hasn't been enough. They need to completely cut out membership into HICV with resale so that they won't lose any sales to the resale market. It would make no sense for them to create an influx of inventory that would allow new participants without requiring a substantial purchase. They have already made it clear that $6000-$8000 direct purchases isn't what they are looking for to allow owners to bring in large resale contracts at the non mandatory resorts. For a developer that was a really low buy in. Most developers allow 1 maybe 2 to be brought in but require a minimum of $20,000-$40,000.

 

[skotrla]

The trust seems to be the answer they are looking for - it will be interesting to see how it plays out. We won't know for sure on new deeded UDIs unless one is sold and makes it past ROFR.

-Scott

 

[skotrla]

This would be someone that bought directly as UDI points. Attached is how it is deeded, if that is helpful to determine what could be sold.

It seems that it would have to be points, but I know that you can never count on the obvious answer as being true.

Thanks for posting a Scottsdale deed - I've never seen one! How much is maintenance for 300K points?

It seems odd that they don't list a unit or total points - I've only seen Lake Geneva UDIs, which list both. Is this a more typical UDI? Lake Geneva units are 703K Marcus Club points for a year and 8.8M HICV points, which is how you can derive the 12.5:1 ratio.

-Scott

 

[jjan8989]

Thanks for posting a Scottsdale deed - I've never seen one! How much is maintenance for 300K points?

It seems odd that they don't list a unit or total points - I've only seen Lake Geneva UDIs, which list both. Is this a more typical UDI? Lake Geneva units are 703K Marcus Club points for a year and 8.8M HICV points, which is how you can derive the 12.5:1 ratio.

-Scott

I'm not sure about the maintenance fees. I was just trying to help a neighbor and I have very limited info other than the copy of their deed.

 

[Sandy]

Reading all of this for the first time is enlightening. I haven't heard anything about this except for TUG.
Is this something I should have seen on my members site? www.members.holidayinnclub.com ?? Or do you only get this info when and if you go to a presentation onsite at one of the resorts?
thanks
sandy

 

[tschwa2]

Reading all of this for the first time is enlightening. I haven't heard anything about this except for TUG.
Is this something I should have seen on my members site? www.members.holidayinnclub.com ?? Or do you only get this info when and if you go to a presentation onsite at one of the resorts?
thanks
sandy

Since nothing is changing with what you already own and they really want to get you one on one for the hard sell and don't particularly want to answer questions from current owners not in a sales context, they have no reason to notify current owners and will save it until they get you onsite.

 

[MrZoom]

The family and I just got back from our original spring break week that started us in to this whole timeshare thing. Since I had read about the UDI possibility, when they offered the 'owner update' we decided to go. Here's the couple of nuggets I picked up.

- The UDI (they called it a land trust) is real, and you folks on TUG of course understand it better than the people trying to sell it from what I can tell.
- I own two Lake Geneva deeds, one worth 30k and one worth 70k. The offer they eventually made was to take the 30k unit back from me and sell me a 130k point land trust unit technically deeded for the Georgia property. If I accepted that offer, then they would make the 70k point unit 'count' towards my status and the deal would push me from premier to prestige. Total cost was around $26k for 100k points plus the conversion of a 70k unit.
- From what I could tell, the 130k point unit from the UDI would have a $1014 annual assessment or $7.80/1k points. That's a little different number than the one someone heard about above, but since the offer was put in front of me and taken away quickly, I might have missed something.

At this point, the family and I will gladly keep our premier status and our $26k. HICV just couldn't believe I would pass up the deal - it was a once in a lifetime offer.

I'm an owner at Orange Lake staying on my home week this week. I actually own two weeks, this is my original week, I own a second that is every other year, that was used to get me into the points system. I own both weeks free and clear. This morning I sat through an 'owner update' where Lisa, the salesperson, offered to take back the every other year week, and get me into a Signature week with VIP Status. I declined, balking at the cost.

My question is this. Lisa kinda implied that since I wouldn't be in the 'trust', which she kept talking about, that I wouldn't be able to exchange into certain resorts out west that are also going into a 'trust'. Is this true?

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[wrobinson]

REPLY FROM FORMER HOLIDAY INN CLUB VACATIONS SALES REP.

In response to your concern, nobody can legally change anything regarding your current ownership without your permission. However, they will do everything they can to convert your deeded week into a points based or UDI system. DO NOT CHANGE ANYTHING. The company belongs to IHG and they are in business to make a profit at your expense. they will attempt to convert with with a charge. if you convert, you lose your guaranteed vacation and might hear "no availability." Also, there are additional fees attached that will continue to go up. Of course, this is normal for any business with inflation, but it should be in your best interest. It usually isn't.

Also, as a warning, DO NO buy into any of their new resorts as they are old Silverleaf Resorts. POS. Unless they agree to upgrade them.

I m writing a book about the timeshare industry to educate current and future timeshare owners. My email is wcrobinson1973@gmail.com

 

[jjan8989]

I thought that this document might be helpful to show the resorts that are part of this new trust and the amounts of units, etc.

 

[DrQ]

We just converted our Silverleaf to HICV this week. They took back one of our deeds and converted it to and sold us 200000 OL East UDI points (should I see a urologist?). They charged for the years MF not the 200K in addition to the remainder of the old unit's MF for this year. I'm a little fuzzy on how the MF's break out. I paid $1550 for the MF on the 200K points. Our other Silverleaf property is converted to points, but I am not sure if it was converted to UDI. There was one document about converting it to points, but it seemed to be on a year by year basis and I did not get a copy of that one. I was told that I retained the ability to take that as my normal week.

While I detest buying from a developer, this solved a couple of issues we were facing.

• Since I was forced to change jobs, my PTO has decreased so that we can't utilize all of our timeshares. Points allows us to swap quantity for quality.
• We maintained our Bonus Time (We have one Endless Escapes, so we could get up to 9 days for $100 every 14 days) in the 13 Silverleaf resorts, so that takes some of the sting out of the high MF.
• Our family has moved to the East Coast, so the additional inventory gives us additional options near family.
• I can roll over unused points and get some value for them.
• I was told, but haven't verified, that a slug of a Westgate property we have been paying MF can be transferred in as HICV points every year for $75.

All done, it ended with us having 365K HICV Points a year.

Oh and this ---- they gave us the written Guarantee to purchase up to 200k points at the same price for a year! Yeah, sure.

 

[DrQ]

I spent some time reviewing the document package.

Our Hill Country Resort was converted, but it retained its Unit/Week designation. We retain 3 year reservation rights on the unit. The unit that was taken back was a unit we internally traded.

As far as I can tell, the UDI makes the buyer one step above traders. 13 months reservation time in your home resort. Compared to banking within Silverleaf, we could bank and reserve 2 years out. Not a biggie for us because we do not vacation in June, July and August. If you are upgrading fixed weeks in high demand times and need them, this would be a concern.

Is 10 months an issue getting decent units during shoulder seasons?

 

[sehansen2]

I spent some time reviewing the document package.


Is 10 months an issue getting decent units during shoulder seasons?

Our experience is that 10 months is not an issue for most resorts in shoulder season - Myrtle Beach and Gatlinburg in late summer for instance. We had limited options when we tried to get Cape Canaveral during Spring break, but were able to book there, just not the specific room layout we wanted.