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Sales presentation info on ILG acquisition

jancurious

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We attended a presentation yesterday primarily to ask about what benefits might be coming based upon MVC's acquisition of ILG. The agent told us not to expect anything for 18-24 months. The first change will be the Sheraton & Weston timeshares (Vistana signature) integrated into MVC. I asked if they would retain their name and the answer was probably. For instance it might be called Sheraton Kauai Resort by MVC. After those are integrated they will start on Hyatt.

I came away feeling very hopeful that this will be another great benefit for MVC owners in time......
 

klpca

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We attended a presentation yesterday primarily to ask about what benefits might be coming based upon MVC's acquisition of ILG. The agent told us not to expect anything for 18-24 months. The first change will be the Sheraton & Weston timeshares (Vistana signature) integrated into MVC. I asked if they would retain their name and the answer was probably. For instance it might be called Sheraton Kauai Resort by MVC. After those are integrated they will start on Hyatt.

I came away feeling very hopeful that this will be another great benefit for MVC owners in time......
And great for Vistana owners too. I'm hoping for reciprocal priority in II.
 

DannyTS

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We attended a presentation yesterday primarily to ask about what benefits might be coming based upon MVC's acquisition of ILG. The agent told us not to expect anything for 18-24 months. The first change will be the Sheraton & Weston timeshares (Vistana signature) integrated into MVC.

It sounds very similar to what i heard from the Vistana reps at the last update. The question is still how they will treat resale Vistana owners at both mandatory and voluntary resorts. It is also hard to know the conversion between Staroptions and DP. Vistana has a much more simplified calendar (1-3 seasons) while MVC has many more.
 

fluke

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It sounds very similar to what i heard from the Vistana reps at the last update. The question is still how they will treat resale Vistana owners at both mandatory and voluntary resorts. It is also hard to know the conversion between Staroptions and DP. Vistana has a much more simplified calendar (1-3 seasons) while MVC has many more.
I think everyone over complicates what the conversion for Vistana will be. I think we already have examples in MVC how they will convert into the club. I think points values will overlay the entire system and include all resorts using the current overlay methods for MVC.

I think the most likely scenario for integration is they will treat weeks owners like legacy MVC owners. Assign a point conversion for each unit type ( resort, season, view).

They will probably treat pure points products ( Nanea, newer St John, Sheraton , Westin Aventura) like the Asian Pacific points. Have a conversion factor to DC points.

The old SVN points system will likely be a subsystem. A larger version of the Florida Club. This of course will be more complicated as Mandatory weeks owners and direct buyers of points and weeks will all participate. They will likely take it off line in a few years and force you to call in - decreasing usage.

They will likely dump the unsold inventory into the trust( possible to create a second trust but unlikely as we have seen Ritz products placed in the trust).

I think you will also see more aggressive ROFR and institution of an aggressive buyback program we saw in MVC product a few years ago to build the trust.

They will need to seed the system with product of legacy Vistana Owners to make it a success. So a small buy in just like inititial DC roll out is likely.

I don't think MVW is going to reinvent the wheel. They will just repeat what they just did since 2008. Look a their Stock growth since they were spun off. What they did worked great from the corporate perspective.

Then barring any legal issues they would do the same with HRC.
 

DannyTS

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I think everyone over complicates what the conversion for Vistana will be. I think we already have examples in MVC how they will convert into the club. I think points values will overlay the entire system and include all resorts using the current overlay methods for MVC.

I think the most likely scenario for integration is they will treat weeks owners like legacy MVC owners. Assign a point conversion for each unit type ( resort, season, view).

I do not claim that i understand MVC well enough so I will be glad to be corrected.

Just look at the pictures below. At Westin Kaanapali resort (not ocean front), you have 52 equal owners for the 1 bedroom condo (let's ignore the event weeks for a second). So 52 owners get the same number of Staroptions in VSN, 81,000.
At Marriott Maui Ocean club the 1 bedroom costs between 2525 and 3590 points. It is unlikely that all the 52 Westin Kaanapali owners will have enough points to book the most expensive periods of the year at Marriott's Maui Ocean club, there is just not enough collective trading power to do that.
So probably MVC will assign to the Westin Kaanapali 1 bedroom owners a number of MVC points between 2525 and 3590, say 3000.

Would that make sense?




upload_2018-12-9_9-52-36.png


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nokaoi9

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I was at Ko Olina in early October and attended a presentation curious what the acquisition might mean as a Marriott and Vistana owner.

Overall the presentation wasn’t too bad, but not very informative either in terms of what I was looking for. I was very upfront about not wanting to buy points and only signed up to learn what changes to expect with the acquisition of Vistana. I was given the fear of missing out pitch, buy now or regret it in the future when points go up and what I will miss out on. I explained that I enrolled my week back in 2010, which in hindsight might not have been the smartest move because of how we use our ownership, but reiterated again I was not looking to buy points. I then asked about how existing Starwood owners will gain access to Marriott. I was told that Marriott is in the business of making money and there will be no enrollment fee (similar to Marriott’s in 2010), and the only way Vistana owners will have access to Marriott properties will be to buy points. I took this response with a grain of salt. I followed up with a theoretical scenario where if one purchased WKORV from the developer at ~$50k, they wouldn’t have access to MKO unless they were willing to shell out another $14k (1000 points at $14/point). I was told this is correct. If this is truly the case, I see very few Vistana owners buying any additional and potentially very little change to the way Vistana operates today.
 

SeaDoc

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"I don't think MVW is going to reinvent the wheel. They will just repeat what they just did since 2008. Look a their Stock growth since they were spun off. What they did worked great from the corporate perspective."

MVWC is presently at a 52 week low and just announced they are buying back stock to pump up earnings per share... Not a great sign, imho...



I think everyone over complicates what the conversion for Vistana will be. I think we already have examples in MVC how they will convert into the club. I think points values will overlay the entire system and include all resorts using the current overlay methods for MVC.

I think the most likely scenario for integration is they will treat weeks owners like legacy MVC owners. Assign a point conversion for each unit type ( resort, season, view).

They will probably treat pure points products ( Nanea, newer St John, Sheraton , Westin Aventura) like the Asian Pacific points. Have a conversion factor to DC points.

The old SVN points system will likely be a subsystem. A larger version of the Florida Club. This of course will be more complicated as Mandatory weeks owners and direct buyers of points and weeks will all participate. They will likely take it off line in a few years and force you to call in - decreasing usage.

They will likely dump the unsold inventory into the trust( possible to create a second trust but unlikely as we have seen Ritz products placed in the trust).

I think you will also see more aggressive ROFR and institution of an aggressive buyback program we saw in MVC product a few years ago to build the trust.

They will need to seed the system with product of legacy Vistana Owners to make it a success. So a small buy in just like inititial DC roll out is likely.

I don't think MVW is going to reinvent the wheel. They will just repeat what they just did since 2008. Look a their Stock growth since they were spun off. What they did worked great from the corporate perspective.

Then barring any legal issues they would do the same with HRC.
 

CalGalTraveler

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Interesting dilemma with seasons. This applies to OV and OF as well. I wonder if this also applies to WSJ and Harborside? I don't believe they can change the seasons because this is baked into the deeds. Not an easy problem to solve!

The problem is if they only average the points making them less useful for peak on other properties, then Westin Owners will not give up their units during peak season because they will get the best bang for their buck staying where they are. So MVC owners will not have access to WKORV during peak season.

On the other hand, low season will cause more demand for the lower point MVC properties causing less availability for MVC and more availablity at Westin (but with higher points cost) as Westin owners arbitrage into low and shoulder season MVC to get more bang for their buck. Perhaps MVC low season owners will see this negative impact and book up their weeks because it is a better deal than to trade higher points into Westin.

Not sure if this will have any benefit for MVC system to have access to premium Westin if they cannot free up these units from owners and incent them to stay elsewhere with points. Westin owners also have the option to use their SO points to trade within the Vistana system without an enrollment fee or rent out their unit so they will have to make enrollment very attractive given the alternatives.

Perhaps MVC won't care because they will make a lot of easy money from Vistana enrollments into the system if the price is low (i.e. "who cares if Vistana owners actually use the points, we are reaping low-hanging fruit!") The money from this probably has higher margin than money from developer sales and the risk of default is low.

They will also be able sell a lot more with the pitch that "you will have access to Westin at these locations. (But in reality it is low season island view at a higher points cost than MVC equivalent)."

If they average, the reality of accessible peak season inventory for premium units (e.g. OV/OF WKORV, WSJ and Harborside) will be minimal because even if owners enroll, there won't be enough benefit points-wise to trade their unit thus enabling MVC access. This gives credence to own where you want to stay if you want peak season.
 
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DannyTS

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Interesting dilemma with seasons. This applies to OV and OF as well. I wonder if this also applies to WSJ and Harborside? I don't believe they can change the seasons because this is baked into the deeds.

The problem is if they only average the points making them less useful for peak on other properties, then Westin Owners will not give up their units during peak season and will not stay in other MVC properties because they will get the best bang for their buck staying where they are. So MVC owners will not have access to WKORV during peak season.

IMO opinion they will have the same dilemma for every Vistana property since the Staroptions and DP charts do not match. This is why i think they may opt to a fixed SO to DP conversion rate. I think that no matter how they do it, there will be losers and winners. Although, let's not lose sight of the big picture, access to a larger network is a big plus for everyone.
 

cubigbird

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IMO opinion they will have the same dilemma for every Vistana property since the Staroptions and DP charts do not match. This is why i think they may opt to a fixed SO to DP conversion rate. I think that no matter how they do it, there will be losers and winners. Although, let's not lose sight of the big picture, access to a larger network is a big plus for everyone.

I am glad all of my VSN weeks are week contracts as opposed to points, with exception to WSJ. That way if they devalue options and there are losers I still have my weeks. I have bought where we like to travel to so no matter what I still have my weeks. My greatest fear is that they devalue Staroptions when merging with MVC and folks ultimately have less usage time than when they originally purchased.
 

DannyTS

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I am glad all of my VSN weeks are week contracts as opposed to points, with exception to WSJ. That way if they devalue options and there are losers I still have my weeks. I have bought where we like to travel to so no matter what I still have my weeks. My greatest fear is that they devalue Staroptions when merging with MVC and folks ultimately have less usage time than when they originally purchased.
I agree. Remember, they will find a way to make money out of this so there will be some sort of devaluation. If the devaluation and the enrollment fees are minimum i will join for the added flexibility. If not, I am happy with what i own.
 

dougp26364

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Just to add a few “tidbits” from our last presentation.

1. We were told the ONLY way MVC owners will have access to the acquired ILG resorts is with trust points. Not DC points, not internal exchange, just trust points

2. If I buy a minimum package of trust points, it changes our DC points to trust points.

Yea....... I don’t believe it either.

Finally: The merger cost MVC billions and they plan to pay for it by jacking the price of trust points to >$18/point. Good for them. I don’t plan on contributing but good for them.

What “might” happen is the only way to book between systems is using points with no internal weeks exchange under the DC program.

I’d like to say this will be the last presentation we’ll ever take..... but you never know. They always seem to come up with something new they think will entice us. As it was this time we walked away not really knowing anything new.
 

CalGalTraveler

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Just to add a few “tidbits” from our last presentation.

1. We were told the ONLY way MVC owners will have access to the acquired ILG resorts is with trust points. Not DC points, not internal exchange, just trust points

2. If I buy a minimum package of trust points, it changes our DC points to trust points.

Newbie question: What is the difference between trust points and DC points?

FWIW...if points cost too much, people will find it more cost effective to:

a) deposit to exchange companies

b) rent out the unit and use cash to stay at an owner TS. The owner rented TS will avoid resort fees in exchanges, you will get exactly the week you want, and have full property benefits.

c) trade in other points systems. For example we own HGVC and could use and inexpensively expand our resale points in that system for as little as $5 - 7K to trade within HGVC and RCI and simply use our Westin Maui i.e. cash cow our current MVC/Vistana relationship, and grow our TS footprint elsewhere. HGVC is aggresively expanding their system so if we stay down the block from an MVC TS and do it less expensively, that works.

There is a premium for convenience but only to a certain point where it becomes more cost effective to utilize other alternatives. Hopefully MVC understands that.
 
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chemteach

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This will be a very complicated process. I own both Vistana and Marriott. Vistana properties have the same number of Staroptions for prime season 2 bedroom lockouts at the Hawaii, Harborside, St. John, Palm Desert, Colorado Ski resorts, and Scottsdale properties. In the current system, at 8 months out, all units are up for grabs to all Vistana Staroptions. I think the losers in whatever exchange system they come up with will be the Vistana owners who currently use their Staroptions at the 8 month timeframe because any combined system would likely allow Marriott owners to exchange into the Vistana system at the 8 month mark, creating a bigger demand for prime units. Only time will tell. Currently, the system is quite nice for Vistana owners because you can often stay at Harborside, Maui, or Kauai during summer or spring break weeks using Staroptions at the 8 month mark.
 

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I think the losers in whatever exchange system they come up with will be the Vistana owners who currently use their Staroptions at the 8 month timeframe because any combined system would likely allow Marriott owners to exchange into the Vistana system at the 8 month mark, creating a bigger demand for prime units.
But if MVC owners rush to book Vistana properties, does that not mean that Marriott resorts will have additional availability that the Vistana owners can book?

I agree though that the most popular weeks and resorts may become even more popular and harder to book. The same can be said about the locations where there is no overlap between MVC and Vistana, you may now have more people competing for those weeks. By the way, I assume that the booking on points and Staroptions will be aligned at 9 months to facilitate integration.
 

dougp26364

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Newbie question: What is the difference between trust points and DC points?

FWIW...if points cost too much, people will find it more cost effective to:

a) deposit to exchange companies

b) rent out the unit and use cash to stay at an owner TS. The owner rented TS will avoid resort fees in exchanges, you will get exactly the week you want, and have full property benefits.

c) trade in other points systems. For example we own HGVC and could use and inexpensively expand our resale points in that system for as little as $5 - 7K to trade within HGVC and RCI and simply use our Westin Maui i.e. cash cow our current MVC/Vistana relationship, and grow our TS footprint elsewhere. HGVC is aggresively expanding their system so if we stay down the block from an MVC TS and do it less expensively, that works.

There is a premium for convenience but only to a certain point where it becomes more cost effective to utilize other alternatives. Hopefully MVC understands that.

There is virtually NO difference between trust and DC points. I’ve been converting our Grand Chateau unit to points for the last few years and we’ve been able to see pretty much anything and everything we might want to book. The thought that MVC would have “trust only” resorts that weeks owners can’t get into, either by converting to DC points or thru an exchange is ludicrous IMHO.

It’s always been a mistake to use scare tactics ( buy or you’ll never be able too....)
as a method to get me to buy. I think the salesman figured that out pretty quickly.
 
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CalGalTraveler

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But if MVC owners rush to book Vistana properties, does that not mean that Marriott resorts will have additional availability that the Vistana owners can book?

I agree though that the most popular weeks and resorts may become even more popular and harder to book. The same can be said about the locations where there is no overlap between MVC and Vistana, you may now have more people competing for those weeks. By the way, I assume that the booking on points and Staroptions will be aligned at 9 months to facilitate integration.

I have a gut feeling that SO traders will be devalued in this scheme. MVC may also give a lead-time advantage e.g. 9 months vs. 8 months to people who own 2 or more MVC units i.e. incent SO owners to buy another unit/enroll to get better trading window. However this is pure speculation.
 

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MVC may also give a lead-time advantage e.g. 9 months vs. 8 months to people who own 2 or more MVC units i.e. incent SO owners to buy another unit/enroll to get better trading window. However this is pure speculation.
This would be odd IMO. I have 4 contracts but is still find it odd.
 

TravelTime

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If I were MVC, first I would create the MVC charts for the Vistana properties and overlay the seasons onto them.

I would then match up the unit type owned in Vistana to the current MVC system. So if you own WKOVR, WKOVRN or Nanea, I would give the owners points based on what they own: IV, OV or OF.

However, I would not assume the current view types in Vistana will be identical in MVC, regardless of how Vistana categorizes them. For example, I might make WKOVR OF worth more points than WKOVRN OF because the WKOVR OF has real oceanfront views and the availabilitry is already limited and hard to book into.

I would also assume Harborside and St John will be premium products in MVC and get more point value relative to what they get now in Vistana.

I would look at where MVC already has resorts to get an idea of how they might value the Vistana units for staying with DPs. For example, MVC can use the current Hawaii, Orlando, Palm Desert, etc charts to get an idea of how they may values a current Vistana resort.

If I were Marriott, I would also look at MFs to get an idea of which resorts are premium products in terms of the MF per week. The more expensive resorts would get more points than the less expensive resorts to make the values match up in DPs.

I would also look at where demand is high and where it is low and give more DOs to the high demand resorts.

Obviously they will not take away the ability to book your week. ButI suspect they will get rid of SOs entirely because they will have converted all Vistana owners into MVC.

I also think they will need to assign a DP value to each week that may or may not be better than if you used your underlying week. For example, in the current MVC system, there is what folks have called breakage so I assume there will be breakage for the Vistana resorts as they get integrated into MVC DP charts.

It is possible that MVC will grandfather in Vistana owners at a better DP amount that we expect. This would make sense if they want to make it more expensive for everyone to use DPs at the Vistana resorts. This is what Hyatt did a few years ago when they converted more Key West weeks to diamond season. The existing owners of those weeks were winners but Hyatt also won by making it more weeks into diamond weeks, hence they were more expensive for everyone else to use points for.

Of course, I am not MVC and I am not thinking through the details of how what I outlines above might work. I think some people will be happy and some will not be but I suspect MVC will design a new system that will make the vast majority of their members happy.
 

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If I were Marriott, I would also look at MFs to get an idea of which resorts are premium products in terms of the MF per week. The more expensive resorts would get more points than the less expensive resorts to make the values match up in DPs.

The platinum MF per DP range from $0.28 to $0.76 currently in MVC so the maintenance fees seem to be a very low factor, if at all.
 

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I also think they will need to assign a DP value to each week that may or may not be better than if you used your underlying week. For example, in the current MVC system, there is what folks have called breakage so I assume there will be breakage for the Vistana resorts as they get integrated into MVC DP charts.

It is possible that MVC will grandfather in Vistana owners at a better DP amount that we expect. This would make sense if they want to make it more expensive for everyone to use DPs at the Vistana resorts. This is what Hyatt did a few years ago when they converted more Key West weeks to diamond season. The existing owners of those weeks were winners but Hyatt also won by making it more weeks into diamond weeks, hence they were more expensive for everyone else to use points for.

Vistana was sold as a floating system and everyone was told that the deeded week number was for inventory purposes only. If the developer price was based on season and size and view, they cannot come now to say people who paid the same will get different numbers of points based on the week number.

I personally believe that there will be a fixed conversion between Staroptions to DP. This is not perfect of course but it is hard for any Vistana owner to argue that is not fair since it is the system the owners bought into and used for many years.
 
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CalGalTraveler

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This would be odd IMO. I have 4 contracts but is still find it odd.

I am basing this off of the current Marriott reservation priority of 13 months if you own 2 or more and 12 months if one.
 

TravelTime

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Just FYI, I did not say that I thought MVC would assign a DP value based on the deed week number. I know that number is only relevant for places where they sell fixed weeks and/or fixed units. I am just hypothesizing so I am not going to try to explain any further or this goes into debate mode. There is another thread for debating.
 
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