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Sales presentation info on ILG acquisition

dougp26364

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If experience has taught me anything, it’s taught me not to even venture a guess at how MVC will manage the merger of these 2 systems. I was soooooo far off with how I thought they’d implement their own points system and how they’d merge their weeks inventory into their points reservation system that I’ll just wait and see. I would almost be willing to bet it favors MVC and not the owners of either system. You’ll keep the rights you currently have but pay for any “enhancements” in one fashion or another.
 
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vikingsholm

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I don't know much about the Vistana or Hyatt current systems, but am familiar with the Marriott enrolled DC points program which we use (we didn't buy any trust points beyond that).

So my speculation is just based upon what would work for me, not upon what may be financially feasible for Marriott.

First, I will not buy new trust style points at their high rates to gain access to Vistana or Hyatt. Those are just icing on the cake to me, and I can take them or leave them, though getting them occasionally through II trades (usually off season) is usually enough for us.

I would prefer a new system that allows me as a Marriott points owner to have a preferred access of a sort to Vistana and Hyatt, but not as full of access as points owners of those systems. Something similar to how Worldmark-only credit owners get access to Wyndham at 10 months out, rather than at 13 months out or whatever if you're a Wyndham owner. I'd still have the option to get full access to Vistana and Hyatt by buying their points at the full rate, but could get this more limited access to them by just being a Marriott points owner.

I would expect the same of Vistana and Hyatt owners in their ability to access each others' current properties, plus Marriotts. No full access without buying DC style points at the full rate for each particular system, but this sort of 10 month out limited preferred access instead.

For that, I'd be willing to pay a small annual fee on top of my current DC fee of $270. So for example, if I want the limited but still preferred access to only Vistana or only Hyatt in addition, I might pay $320 per year, instead of $270. If I wanted limited but still preferred access to both Vistana and Hyatt as a Marriott-only DC points or trust points owner, I might pay for example $350 per year instead of $270 or $320.

I think it is important that they not open up our existing properties for full access by owners of the other 2 systems without a buy-in that substantially asks you to become a regular points owner of the other systems. I do not want to see my Marriotts all of a sudden becoming very hard to get due to owners of the other systems because they don't have to pay much or anything to gain this access.

But limiting the access to the other systems to a 10 month or so window for a reasonable fee will allow existing owners of each system to grab the prime weeks in the 13-10 month window ahead of time for their own systems, and still provides lots of options for other system's owners within these 3 systems to get better units at 10 months out than any non-owners of any of these systems could access through trades in II, etc.

In terms of weeks trades through II, I also think that the Marriott preference, Vistana preference, and Hyatt preference should still only accrue for the system(s) that you already own for the current owners, and to new purchasers of each system, and not be extended automatically to owners of the other pre-existing systems.

You'd thus need to buy units or points for each system to get this preference, not just have it extended to you because as a prior Vistana or Hyatt owner you're now a part of the new larger Marriott system, and the same for current owners of Marriotts not getting preferred II trading into Vistana and Hyatt just because they merged.

How that would change if Marriott decides to ultimately fold all current systems into one big megasystem and blur the lines of which one you own is a complication to this approach though.
 
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andysnovel

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I don't know much about the Vistana or Hyatt current systems, but am familiar with the Marriott enrolled DC points program which we use (we didn't buy any trust points beyond that).

So my speculation is just based upon what would work for me, not upon what may be financially feasible for Marriott.

First, I will not buy new trust style points at their high rates to gain access to Vistana or Hyatt. Those are just icing on the cake to me, and I can take them or leave them, though getting them occasionally through II trades (usually off season) is usually enough for us.

I would prefer a new system that allows me as a Marriott points owner to have a preferred access of a sort to Vistana and Hyatt, but not as full of access as points owners of those systems. Something similar to how Worldmark-only credit owners get access to Wyndham at 10 months out, rather than at 13 months out or whatever if you're a Wyndham owner. I'd still have the option to get full access to Vistana and Hyatt by buying their points at the full rate, but could get this more limited access to them by just being a Marriott points owner.

I would expect the same of Vistana and Hyatt owners in their ability to access each others' current properties, plus Marriotts. No full access without buying DC style points at the full rate for each particular system, but this sort of 10 month out limited preferred access instead.

For that, I'd be willing to pay a small annual fee on top of my current DC fee of $270. So for example, if I want the limited but still preferred access to only Vistana or only Hyatt in addition, I might pay $320 per year, instead of $270. If I wanted limited but still preferred access to both Vistana and Hyatt as a Marriott-only DC points or trust points owner, I might pay for example $350 per year instead of $270 or $320.

I think it is important that they not open up our existing properties for full access by owners of the other 2 systems without a buy-in that substantially asks you to become a regular points owner of the other systems. I do not want to see my Marriotts all of a sudden becoming very hard to get due to owners of the other systems because they don't have to pay much or anything to gain this access.

But limiting the access to the other systems to a 10 month or so window for a reasonable fee will allow existing owners of each system to grab the prime weeks in the 13-10 month window ahead of time for their own systems, and still provides lots of options for other system's owners within these 3 systems to get better units at 10 months out than any non-owners of any of these systems could access through trades in II, etc.

In terms of weeks trades through II, I also think that the Marriott preference, Vistana preference, and Hyatt preference should still only accrue for the system(s) that you already own for the current owners, and to new purchasers of each system, and not be extended automatically to owners of the other pre-existing systems.

You'd thus need to buy units or points for each system to get this preference, not just have it extended to you because as a prior Vistana or Hyatt owner you're now a part of the new larger Marriott system, and the same for current owners of Marriotts not getting preferred II trading into Vistana and Hyatt just because they merged.

How that would change if Marriott decides to ultimately fold all current systems into one big megasystem and blur the lines of which one you own is a complication to this approach though.
Do You think Marriott would make Vistana resale owners qualify to fully participate in the new combined system??? Mandatory resorts come with Star Options on the resale market, would direct buy owners be treated differently????
 

CalGalTraveler

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Do You think Marriott would make Vistana resale owners qualify to fully participate in the new combined system??? Mandatory resorts come with Star Options on the resale market, would direct buy owners be treated differently????

It's possible but if they put too many expenses in front of Vistana owners they won't bite because they have alternatives = no revenue for MVC.

The value of a bigger system is nice but it's not a must-have. One can gain access to Marriott via renting from owners, II cash getaways, exchanges without adding to ownership or taking on risk. One could also buy another resale week and simply use or trade it. Or, in our case, we can stay down the block at HGVC or Vistana with points which we already own = zero incremental cost.

Bottom line: To add to ownership at this point it must pass a very high bar of benefit, or be free/cheap to enroll.
 

TravelTime

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We are all looking at this from an existing Vistana or Marriott owner’s perspective. In reality, they need to design a new integrated system that will be attractive to new owners who do not currently own timeshares. Keeping that in mind, I assume they will integrate the Vistana, Marriott and Hyatt systems into one program. Otherwise, it will be super confusing to sell it to new owners. The benefit to new owners is ability to access all the timeshare properties. I think they will follow the model of Marriott Rewards (even though I know MVC and Marriott are separate companies). For new owners who purchase direct from MVC, none of our distinctions matter because they never would have known what existed before. I also think they will need to keep their current direct owners happy especially customers who have purchased all trust points direct from Marriott.

I suspect resale buyers are the last on the totem pole of who they care about in the future. They have already made that clear but taking away ability to enroll resale weeks inexpensively. Also when you call in for customer service, they do make a distinction with how you bought your weeks or points. When I was having trouble after the merger, the reps kept mentioning that I bought resale. This makes no sense to me since resale buyers, especially at the higher member levels (Presidential, Chairman’s Club), are paying a lot in annual MFs. Over time, MVC makes more money for recurring annual MFs and other purchases we make so it is not too smart for them to alienate their best customers.
 

TravelTime

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If experience has taught me anything, it’s taught me not to even venture a guess at how MVC will manage the merger of these 2 systems. I was soooooo far off with how I thought they’d implement their own points system and how they’d merge their weeks inventory into their points reservation system that I’ll just wait and see. I would almost be willing to bet it favors MVC and not the owners of either system. You’ll keep the rights you currently have but pay for any “enhancements” in one fashion or another.

I am curious about this from a historical perspective. What did you think they would do when they rolled out the points system? Are there any good older threads to read from that time?
 

dougp26364

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I am curious about this from a historical perspective. What did you think they would do when they rolled out the points system? Are there any good older threads to read from that time?

Grand Chateau was originally a DRI planned property. DRI initially sold the branding right to Marriott and, I believe Marriott now holds all rights to the property. Because of that relationship, I thought they’d do something a little more similar to DRI’s point system.
 

GetawaysRus

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I would almost be willing to bet it favors MVC and not the owners of either system.

Almost?

To steal a phrase from Nancy Pelosi, we'll get crumbs. But I expect those crumbs to be dressed up to look like benefits.

If I try to look at this objectively, what I see is that MVCI is a public company. Public companies need to generate profits to satisfy investors. I am reading plenty of articles that say that the housing sector is already slowing and that the general economy will slow in the months ahead. Timeshare purchases are a discretionary item, so I would expect them to slow as well (probably even more than the general housing market because a home is more important than a vacation). So here is an opportunity for MVCI to try to generate some profit and hedge against a future slowdown in timeshare (points) sales.
 
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TravelTime

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I think we should track the vacation market, not the homeowners market, for timeshares. While many people claim timeshares are real estate, they are used for vacations.
 

SeaDoc

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I'm going to play Devil's advocate and believe NOTHING will happen to the Programs as conceived. However, through the Explorer Collection in the MVWC website and Marriott.com there will be a method for Vistana Owners and MVWC Owners to utilize their respective 'currencies' to exchange into other programs. Even Hyatt could conceivably be handled using this exchange method. I doubt they would risk legal blow-back to alter Vistana Owners, Hyatt, and MVWC Owners from their Owner preferences. JMHO...
 

VacationForever

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Grand Chateau was originally a DRI planned property. DRI initially sold the branding right to Marriott and, I believe Marriott now holds all rights to the property. Because of that relationship, I thought they’d do something a little more similar to DRI’s point system.
???? Grand Chateau was a Westgate property. When did DRI come into play?
 

controller1

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I suspect resale buyers are the last on the totem pole of who they care about in the future. They have already made that clear but taking away ability to enroll resale weeks inexpensively. Also when you call in for customer service, they do make a distinction with how you bought your weeks or points. When I was having trouble after the merger, the reps kept mentioning that I bought resale. This makes no sense to me since resale buyers, especially at the higher member levels (Presidential, Chairman’s Club), are paying a lot in annual MFs. Over time, MVC makes more money for recurring annual MFs and other purchases we make so it is not too smart for them to alienate their best customers.

Looking at it from the MVC/Vistana side, I'm not sure they would agree with you. Taking WKORVN as an example. . .For a 2br Lockoff OF, a resale owner is paying $2,800/yr in MFs to Vistana. An owner with a developer-purchase made an $89,000 purchase with Vistana and also is paying $2,800/yr in MFs. From Vistana's standpoint, I believe I know who will receive the preferential treatment as one of "their best customers."

And yes I know that Vistana originally received another $89,000 from the original purchaser of what became a resale purchase. But that customer is probably long gone.
 

JIMinNC

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???? Grand Chateau was a Westgate property. When did DRI come into play?

Are you confusing Grand Chateau with HGVC Elara, right across the street from Grand Chateau? HGVC Elara was begun by Westgate, but my understanding is that Grand Chateau was originally a DRI project.
 
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JIMinNC

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Interesting dilemma with seasons. This applies to OV and OF as well. I wonder if this also applies to WSJ and Harborside? I don't believe they can change the seasons because this is baked into the deeds. Not an easy problem to solve!

The problem is if they only average the points making them less useful for peak on other properties, then Westin Owners will not give up their units during peak season because they will get the best bang for their buck staying where they are. So MVC owners will not have access to WKORV during peak season.

On the other hand, low season will cause more demand for the lower point MVC properties causing less availability for MVC and more availablity at Westin (but with higher points cost) as Westin owners arbitrage into low and shoulder season MVC to get more bang for their buck. Perhaps MVC low season owners will see this negative impact and book up their weeks because it is a better deal than to trade higher points into Westin.

Not sure if this will have any benefit for MVC system to have access to premium Westin if they cannot free up these units from owners and incent them to stay elsewhere with points. Westin owners also have the option to use their SO points to trade within the Vistana system without an enrollment fee or rent out their unit so they will have to make enrollment very attractive given the alternatives.

Perhaps MVC won't care because they will make a lot of easy money from Vistana enrollments into the system if the price is low (i.e. "who cares if Vistana owners actually use the points, we are reaping low-hanging fruit!") The money from this probably has higher margin than money from developer sales and the risk of default is low.

They will also be able sell a lot more with the pitch that "you will have access to Westin at these locations. (But in reality it is low season island view at a higher points cost than MVC equivalent)."

If they average, the reality of accessible peak season inventory for premium units (e.g. OV/OF WKORV, WSJ and Harborside) will be minimal because even if owners enroll, there won't be enough benefit points-wise to trade their unit thus enabling MVC access. This gives credence to own where you want to stay if you want peak season.

Just like the Vistana Maui weeks, the legacy MVC Maui weeks didn't have "seasons" either. All 52 weeks were designated as Platinum. So all owners of 1BR OF units get the same number of Destination Points if they enroll their week in the DP system and elect for points. All 1BR OV owners get a smaller point assignment, and so on for all view/size categories. For example, a 1BR OF gets 4175 DPs, a 1BR OV gets 3900, a 2BR OF gets 6450, and a 2BR OV gets 5825. Mountain/Garden view get smaller allocations in both size categories. But when MVC created the DP points charts, they created seasons for DPs in Hawaii.

If - and I think for all the reasons others have noted, it's still a big "IF" MVC merges the programs - I would expect each Vistana week to get a DP point value to use when exchanging for DPs. I would also expect that they would probably have to maintain the existing Staroptions approach for booking within the legacy Vistana network - unless they could come up with a new model that would work equitably across all brands.

But at this point, I doubt the sales reps have that much more knowledge about what the future looks like than we do here. It is very believable that they may have been told any significant enhancements and changes are 18-24 months away, but it's doubtful they have been told what the future structure might actually look like.
 

dougp26364

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???? Grand Chateau was a Westgate property. When did DRI come into play?

Elara was a Westgate property. Grand Chateau was originally a concept by DRI. S. Cloobeck decided to get out of timeshare, sold the branding rights to Marriott before begin8 g construction and turned the final sales of The Suites at Polo Towers over to Marriott. At one point in time, it was rumored Polo Towers would eventually be branded a Marriott property but, that was never going to happen. The units were to small and the quality to low to fit MVC standards.

There use to be a silent partnership called Hard Carbon between Marriott and Cloobeck. I had heard Marriott bought that agreement out but, I’ve lost my contacts and don’t get good info on that deal anymore...... nor do I really care so long as GC remains a Marriott branded property.
 

TravelTime

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Looking at it from the MVC/Vistana side, I'm not sure they would agree with you. Taking WKORVN as an example. . .For a 2br Lockoff OF, a resale owner is paying $2,800/yr in MFs to Vistana. An owner with a developer-purchase made an $89,000 purchase with Vistana and also is paying $2,800/yr in MFs. From Vistana's standpoint, I believe I know who will receive the preferential treatment as one of "their best customers."

And yes I know that Vistana originally received another $89,000 from the original purchaser of what became a resale purchase. But that customer is probably long gone.

I also own WVKOVRN and I am a Marriott owner too. Marriott makes an issue of whether you purchased direct or resale. I have chastised them on the telephone for this. I agree with what you said but Marriott does not like resale owners and they do distinguish between us and them.
 

TravelTime

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I'm going to play Devil's advocate and believe NOTHING will happen to the Programs as conceived. However, through the Explorer Collection in the MVWC website and Marriott.com there will be a method for Vistana Owners and MVWC Owners to utilize their respective 'currencies' to exchange into other programs. Even Hyatt could conceivably be handled using this exchange method. I doubt they would risk legal blow-back to alter Vistana Owners, Hyatt, and MVWC Owners from their Owner preferences. JMHO...

Interesting idea. If you are correct, this would limit Presidential and Chairman’s Club, and possibly Executive level, members to access to Vistana and Hyatt timeshare inventory. I think that would come across strange because it would imply that Vistana and Hyatt are different and/or better than Marriott timeshares. Even Ritz Carlton timeshares we’re integrated into the regular MVC points program, although access is limited by benefit level but not by Explore Collection. If MVC kept Vistana and Hyatt timeshare inventory separate through the Explorer Collection, I would not see this as integration. Also the number of points needed to book into Explorer Collection is very high and not a great value. I also wonder if this idea might actually limit their sales ability.
 

vikingsholm

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Do You think Marriott would make Vistana resale owners qualify to fully participate in the new combined system??? Mandatory resorts come with Star Options on the resale market, would direct buy owners be treated differently????
I really don't know, since I'm not only not very familiar with the Vistana system, but also don't have any insight into what Marriott is thinking.

My post was mainly a list of the way I'd like to see it done. Which means it will probably be rolled out quite differently than that!
 
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