Security alert Playa del carmen & security concerns in Mexico (merged)

[T_R_Oglodyte]

More than a dozen travelers from around the United States say reviews website TripAdvisor is deleting and muzzling their first-hand accounts of rape ...
TripAdvisor apologized on Wednesday for deleting a 2010 post in which a woman claimed she was raped at a Mexican resort
TripAdvisor has added a badge to its pages warning customers of sexual assault and other serious crime at certain destinations. The travel website said it has already placed the cautionary message on pages for three hotels in Mexico.

I feel much safer now.

Does TripAdivson ornly censor posts about Mexico?

Or do they censor "adverse" posts more universally? Because, if it's universal, then singling out Mexico is less relevant.

In fact, ever since TripAdvisor began accepting paid advertising, removing unpleasant content has become an issue. Not just with Mexico.

******

BTW - I'm not saying that Mexico in general is just as safe as the US. There are certainly many areas in Mexico, and many parts of the world, where danger is more present. And where due to unawareness of local conditions and customers, visitors can find themselves in more danger. I know of one timeshare resort in Mexico that was closed due to security concerns (Vila Vera in Acapulco).

But I do argue for context. And I will offer my experience that there are many places in Mexico where tourists are every bit as physically safe as they would be anyplace in the US.

 

[Jayco29D]

I have been to Guatemala too. I did not experience any danger there but the tour guide told us all about the danger, politics and the civil war. We went there to see the pyramids and ruins on a day trip from Belize. It was not particularly adventurous but I knew there was a risk being on a tourist bus. Anything could have happened but nothing did.

I was in Haiti for work in the 1990s and my company arranged protection with the government and hired armed guards to accompany us. Going from the airport to our location took two hours along unpaved roads. We saw women bathing in the river with men with rifles protecting them from rape. I saw many Red Cross trucks going back and forth. We stayed in a hotel that was closed and they opened it just for us. The hotel overlooked the sea and it was absolutely beautiful. They brought in staff to cook for us and attend to our needs. The Haitians were incredible to us, but I am sure if I was walking alone in their inner city I would have had a different experience. We had a group of about 100 people so we needed two hotels. My hotel was great but everyone in the other hotel got food poisoning. We were there for several days for our work. That was the poorest country I have ever been in, yet we were treated like royalty since my company arranged everything and the government was involved in protecting us. Guatemala is rich compared to Haiti. I was in Haiti at about the same time I visited Guatemala so timing was not the issue. It was in the 1990s.

The Mexican resorts in tourist areas advertise themselves as relaxation and getaways and equivalent to the USA. They do not advertise as cultural experiences to see Mexico as the locals live. They charge about the same as the USA for the places we have stayed since we go to upscale resorts. We do not expect to be harassed by resort staff if the resorts are claiming to be 5 star.

 

[taterhed]

Mexico: Where More Americans Are Murdered Than In All Other Foreign Countries Combined

Forbes: Gary Stoller
"Most recent State Department data may also cause travelers to pause before booking a trip to Mexico. In 2016, according to my analysis of the data, more Americans were reported killed by homicide in Mexico than the combined total of Americans killed by homicide in every other country abroad.
More than 31 million Americans visited Mexico in 2016, the National Travel & Tourism Office says, and State Department data shows there were reports of 75 American homicide victims there. In comparison, 49 million Americans traveled to all other foreign countries, and 69 were reported killed by homicide.


So, is this the cold, hard truth that you seek?

I don't think this kind of posting really helps TUG advise vacationers of current and timely warnings concerning certain geographic areas. That's that the thread started out to be.....but it has quickly become a USA vs MEXICO debate.

Sorry, but I'll have no part of it. MODERATORS: suggest locking the thread now before it degrades even further.
Truly sorry for the loss of a beautiful family on vacation. The results of the investigation could be very helpful information for travelers. Sadly, it would be hard to find in this thread.


Bye.

 

[Jayco29D]

More than a dozen travelers from around the United States say reviews website TripAdvisor is deleting and muzzling their first-hand accounts of rape ...
TripAdvisor apologized on Wednesday for deleting a 2010 post in which a woman claimed she was raped at a Mexican resort
TripAdvisor has added a badge to its pages warning customers of sexual assault and other serious crime at certain destinations. The travel website said it has already placed the cautionary message on pages for three hotels in Mexico.

I feel much safer now.

Tripadvisor is very unreliable. If you look at the reviews, many say they have been edited with the hotel. I do not trust Tripadvisor anymore. It is all BS. I just look at the photos.

 

[Jayco29D]

I do not think this thread should be closed. People should see the information and decide for themselves. There is a lot of conflicting information. I would hate to see TUG close this post and censor it. This thread started with a travel warning about Mexico. Nothing has changed.

What taterhed posted seems to be the most controversial and would give me the most pause about traveling to Mexico. Why did you post that and then suggest closing this thread?

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Mexico: Where More Americans Are Murdered Than In All Other Foreign Countries Combined

Forbes: Gary Stoller
"Most recent State Department data may also cause travelers to pause before booking a trip to Mexico. In 2016, according to my analysis of the data, more Americans were reported killed by homicide in Mexico than the combined total of Americans killed by homicide in every other country abroad.
More than 31 million Americans visited Mexico in 2016, the National Travel & Tourism Office says, and State Department data shows there were reports of 75 American homicide victims there. In comparison, 49 million Americans traveled to all other foreign countries, and 69 were reported killed by homicide.


So, is this the cold, hard truth that you seek?

I don't think this kind of posting really helps TUG advise vacationers of current and timely warnings concerning certain geographic areas. That's that the thread started out to be.....but it has quickly become a USA vs MEXICO debate.

Sorry, but I'll have no part of it. MODERATORS: suggest locking the thread now before it degrades even further.
Truly sorry for the loss of a beautiful family on vacation. The results of the investigation could be very helpful information for travelers. Sadly, it would be hard to find in this thread.


Bye.

Very good information tatherhead. Thank you for posting.

One question I have looking at the data is that it doesn't distinguish the reasons for travel to Mexico - or other locales. Considering Mexico - is there a risk difference between traveling to Mexico for tourism, for business, or to see family? How many of those homicides of Americans in Mexico involve people who may have been involved in illicit activities?

As I keep iterating, context matters.

 

[isisdave]

" ...Iowa investigators have confirmed that the Sharp family from Creston was found dead in their condo in Mexico. The family of 4 were found dead in a condominium of the Bahía Príncipe tourist complex in Tulum. The family was vacationing in Mexico earlier this month."

So don't you think there's information missing or confused from the current Mexico event? Nothing that says "they were all found in bed" which would suggest carbon monoxide. Still, you don't need heat much in Tulum; is the hot water heater in the unit?? Often they're in a closet on the balcony.

Or "they all showed signs of disease, or food poisoning, or something"? I haven't seen anything about the circumstances. Were the doors locked? When did anyone last use the room phone, or a cell phone?

And how/why would "Iowa investigators" be involved in Mexico? And if they were, why no more specific info from them?

 

[PigsDad]

So don't you think there's information missing or confused from the current Mexico event? Nothing that says "they were all found in bed" which would suggest carbon monoxide. Still, you don't need heat much in Tulum; is the hot water heater in the unit?? Often they're in a closet on the balcony.

In an article I saw, they stated the parents were found in their bed, and the kids were found in the living area in front of the TV. I don't think food poisoning is likely -- what's the chance that it affected them all the same way and they all died at the same time (no one went for help, etc.). It may not be heater related, but how about a gas leak from the stove/oven? Fireplace? Lots of unknowns here.

And how/why would "Iowa investigators" be involved in Mexico? And if they were, why no more specific info from them?

The first article I read about this stated the "Iowa investigators" were just involved because that is where the missing persons report was filed. Those authorities then contacted the state department. The Iowa authorities were not involved in Mexico with the investigation.

Kurt

 

[taterhed]

Ok, guess I didn't leave soon enough.

I'm sorry if I seem frustrated, I just don't like 'sensational' postings attempt to sway people's opinions via fear or abstract comparisons.
"you're more likely to die at home on the Toilet than on vacation in Mexico...." for example.

I agree that the thread has value where it reports (via reputable sources) on real world events, warnings and cautions--including retractions where appropriate.

As for the other posts: The family reported that they were told the group appeared to have 'gone to sleep' and never awakened. There was no sign of trauma; two kids in living room and parents in bed. This is paraphrased, but it's widely reported. RIP

If it is CO asphyxiation or NG poisoning, the autopsy results should be quick and clear (or perhaps chlorine or ???).

Again, very sad, but also good information to know...either to warn or comfort those who may be traveling to the area. I'm sure the results will be posted soon.

 

[Jayco29D]

Three security stories today in Mexico News Daily. The USA has crime problems too but these are certainly unique, to say the least.

https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/fo...il&utm_term=0_f1536a3787-842cf5f5cd-349557009

https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/co...il&utm_term=0_f1536a3787-842cf5f5cd-349557009

https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/15...il&utm_term=0_f1536a3787-842cf5f5cd-349557009

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

RE: Creston Iowa Family.

News Reports Saturday evening March 24 list the cause of the death(s) as toxic gas.

I assume this could be from a gas stove .

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

"you're more likely to die at home on the Toilet than on vacation in Mexico...." for example.

I agree that the thread has value where it reports (via reputable sources) on real world events,.

and statistically : < 100% of people will die at some point .>

******
I agree that threads like this have value , AND sometimes they turn into the thread from last year that debated tourist death rates in Hawaii -from which it was learned :
Older retired people vacation and some die while on vacation .

 

[taterhed]

Sadly, we watched a grandfather pass this year on the beach.

But, he was with family, having a wonderful time and healthy until he went.
Yup, we all have a 'sell by' date.

 

[easyrider]

I haven't decided exactly where I stand on Mexico trips anymore. I'm not concerned about crime and really doubt that anyone would mess with me while I am in Mexico. My concern is more about my health. I do not want to need to use my travel insurance or stress out about where I should go if something health wise were to happen. I did go to Loreto and Nuevo Vallarta last year and just took it easy but in the back of my mind I was thinking about the what if's.

The what if's can happen anywhere but if it did happen in Mexico it would be a real problem in many ways.

Other problems with Mexico is the building codes and lack of enforcement of public safety issues regarding almost all of the resorts. Mexico is an under developed country and it does show.

Many people have cancelled their trips to Mexico once again. This seems to happen occasionally. I remember years that tourists were not so plenty on trips to Mexico for one reason or another. The reason was usually uncertainty and doubt, imo. I guess that is my reason too.

Bill

 

[Jayco29D]

On the family that died at Bahia Principe, supposedly they died 36 to 48 hours before they were found and were decomposed when found (so maybe it was even more time since they usually posted daily photos on Facebook). It makes me wonder why housekeeping did not find them sooner. Does that resort not provide daily housekeeping?

It has now been confirmed that they died from inhaling toxic gas.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...b51e028b845_story.html?utm_term=.2a8197e1d91b

 

[Jayco29D]

I haven't decided exactly where I stand on Mexico trips anymore. I'm not concerned about crime and really doubt that anyone would mess with me while I am in Mexico. My concern is more about my health. I do not want to need to use my travel insurance or stress out about where I should go if something health wise were to happen. I did go to Loreto and Nuevo Vallarta last year and just took it easy but in the back of my mind I was thinking about the what if's.

The what if's can happen anywhere but if it did happen in Mexico it would be a real problem in many ways.

Other problems with Mexico is the building codes and lack of enforcement of public safety issues regarding almost all of the resorts. Mexico is an under developed country and it does show.

Many people have cancelled their trips to Mexico once again. This seems to happen occasionally. I remember years that tourists were not so plenty on trips to Mexico for one reason or another. The reason was usually uncertainty and doubt, imo. I guess that is my reason too.

Bill

When I broke my clavicle in Mexico, I did not get any medical care. I was taken to the so-called paramedics at Xel-Ha and told I was okay. I had a concussion but they said I was okay and let me go. I have no memory of the accident. I have no idea what happened. They said I hit my head. I completely blacked out for at least 20 minutes. I waited until I reached my family in Miami and my family forced me to go to urgent care to get checked out. That is when I learned I had a broken clavicle. Then when I got home to California, I immediately went to my PCP and she sent me to a neurologist and orthopedic doctor. I am still under the care of the ortho doctor and this happened in late January.

 

[Steve Fatula]

More than 31 million Americans visited Mexico in 2016, the National Travel & Tourism Office says, and State Department data shows there were reports of 75 American homicide victims there. In comparison, 49 million Americans traveled to all other foreign countries, and 69 were reported killed by homicide.

Not really that different (ignoring the words), 1.72 times more likely but your chance is less than dying as any number of typical reasons while sitting in the US. I wonder about location though, for example, would be curious how many of those homicides were say in border areas vs say timeshare type locations. I would not myself travel to border areas at this time, but don't get a great sense of danger in the normal TS destinations, people have different fears though. But if one could pinpoint where, might be a better sense of risk. I highly suspect the great majority are border areas which then reframes this statistic. This page claims 92% are border states, not tourist areas though a few years old data. https://mexiconewsdaily.com/opinion/what-are-chances-of-being-murder-victim/ Yes, one can poke some holes in that article but I highly suspect border areas have the most risk by far.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

On the family that died at Bahia Principe, supposedly they died 36 to 48 hours before they were found and were decomposed when found (so maybe it was even more time since they usually posted daily photos on Facebook). It makes me wonder why housekeeping did not find them sooner. Does that resort not provide daily housekeeping?

It has now been confirmed that they died from inhaling toxic gas.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...b51e028b845_story.html?utm_term=.2a8197e1d91b

I googled -(Tao Condo) and it looked like to me that there could be full ownership condos within the Bahia P. Resort Complex ; based on some ads for rentals . If this is what they rented then you would not have housekeeping .

We have a gas stove / could they have accidentally left the stove on without lighting it ?

 

[Eric B]

I got the same impression from the info available on the condo complex and the sales listings. Looks like they're investigating the stove as a gas source, though, and I think they would have been able to tell it was on immediately without being lit and released that to the press.

 

[Jayco29D]

This is being called a gas leak from what I have read so far. If they rented a full ownership condo from an individual owner off a vacation rental site (as the New York Times reported earlier and someone on TUG chastised me for mentioning), then this goes back to my previous comment, which I deleted. Be careful renting from individual owners on vacation rental sites. You do not always know the quality of what you are getting when you rent from an unknown individual owner, not to mention the financial risks.

 

[VacationForever]

This is being called a gas leak from what I have read so far. If they rented a full ownership condo from an individual owner off a vacation rental site (as the New York Times reported earlier and someone on TUG chastised me for mentioning), then this goes back to my previous comment, which I deleted. Be careful renting from individual owners on vacation rental sites. You do not always know the quality of what you are getting when you rent from an unknown individual owner, not to mention the financial risks.

Precisely! My husband and I had this conversation even before more details came out. We do not use AirBnB, VRBO and Homeaway rentals. We stick to the major chains whether it is timeshare or hotels, where we can expect more stringent building code and better maintenance.

 

[taterhed]

This is being called a gas leak from what I have read so far. If they rented a full ownership condo from an individual owner off a vacation rental site (as the New York Times reported earlier and someone on TUG chastised me for mentioning), then this goes back to my previous comment, which I deleted. Be careful renting from individual owners on vacation rental sites. You do not always know the quality of what you are getting when you rent from an unknown individual owner, not to mention the financial risks.

If that's me....I apologize; I wasn't intending to chide, just pointing out that it was a major, name-brand resort and not an 'off the economy' rental. Of course, assuming that anything is what it seems based on the brand, resort etc... is a bad idea. Perhaps especially outside the USA. Heck, even in Hawaii, there can be big surprises renting in a branded resort/condo only to find out you are in a wholly-owned and maintained unit...that hasn't been upgraded since construction.

It will be interested to hear the details. Again, very sad for the family and certainly something to think about before renting any property.....

 

[VacationForever]

Natural gas has no smell and US's code requires adding a smell that we are all familiar with so that our nose can detect leaking gas. Mexico may not have the same requirement.

 

[VacationForever]

If that's me....I apologize; I wasn't intending to chide, just pointing out that it was a major, name-brand resort and not an 'off the economy' rental. Of course, assuming that anything is what it seems based on the brand, resort etc... is a bad idea. Perhaps especially outside the USA. Heck, even in Hawaii, there can be big surprises renting in a branded resort/condo only to find out you are in a wholly-owned and maintained unit...that hasn't been upgraded since construction.

It will be interested to hear the details. Again, very sad for the family and certainly something to think about before renting any property.....

My friend won a charity auction for a week at one of the ocean facing Poipu resorts in Kauai. The problem was that some of the units were fully owned and one owner donated a week each year to the organization where she worked. She showed up with 3 of her friends and found the closets filled with the owner's clothes. She also said the unit smelled bad, like damp clothes/bedsheets that were not washed and dried regularly. They had a fabulous view in a terrible smelling unit. She thought the bedsheets looked clean but in no way the owner should have donated a week for auction. She said he was also renting out his units through rental channels. The organization refused to accept this donation after her experience.

 

[taterhed]

Does TripAdivson ornly censor posts about Mexico?

Or do they censor "adverse" posts more universally? Because, if it's universal, then singling out Mexico is less relevant.

In fact, ever since TripAdvisor began accepting paid advertising, removing unpleasant content has become an issue. Not just with Mexico.

******

BTW - I'm not saying that Mexico in general is just as safe as the US. There are certainly many areas in Mexico, and many parts of the world, where danger is more present. And where due to unawareness of local conditions and customers, visitors can find themselves in more danger. I know of one timeshare resort in Mexico that was closed due to security concerns (Vila Vera in Acapulco).

But I do argue for context. And I will offer my experience that there are many places in Mexico where tourists are every bit as physically safe as they would be anyplace in the US.

Specifically, the incidents that were first removed and posted were all in Mexico AFAIK. Yes, their censorship (advertising) is universally bad.

I hear your tone and recognize what you say is true. Thanks. I'm certainly not trying to single out Mexico...but of course, this thread was specifically started to detail the explosion, explosives and DOS warning for Playa del C.


Truce.