Security alert Playa del carmen & security concerns in Mexico (merged)

[T-Dot-Traveller]

Natural gas has no smell and US's code requires adding a smell that we are all familiar with so that our nose can detect leaking gas. Mexico may not have the same requirement.

If - this was caused by a gas used for cooking ; -

it is more likely to have been propane -based on what I have seen as a vacation visitor to Mexico .

 

[JIMinNC]

I think the issues being debated here are all heavily influenced by perception, and that's OK because our perceptions drive how we react to everything in life. It may or may not be "real", but each individual's perceptions are "real" to them.

Many Americans may perceive Mexico to be a dangerous place - because parts of it truly are. Similarly, I know that many people from Europe and Asia look at some of the high-profile random violent events that have taken place in recent months/years here in the U.S. and view our country as sort of the wild-wild west, compared to where they live. I don't think most Americans really perceive most of our country to be a dangerous place, but in a different country/culture, some of our events appear very scary as those kinds of things just don't happen with any regularity there.

If someone feels that the risk of travel to Mexico is too high, then don't go. We had read all the stories prior to our visit to Los Cabos last month, so we really didn't know what to expect. But we loved the area and felt safe everywhere we went in the tourist areas of Cabo San Lucas and San Jose del Cabo. There was a visible police presence, just as there is in many U.S. cities.

 

[Jayco29D]

Here’s the irony. I can have a perception of someplace not being safe and decide to take a risk and go anyway. I have done this many times in my life. Then I come home and hear about more problems and I just think I was lucky that nothing bad happened to me. Same thing with Mexico. We have gone 5 times since last summer. I keep thinking I was just lucky that nothing really bad happened to us. I told my spouse, don’t worry, Mexico is safe, it is just propaganda. LOL The day before we arrived in Cabo, they hung 4 men (I think it was four) on the overpass from the airport to town to scare tourists. When we read that, we decided not to leave Pueblo Bonito’s gated compound. We had a great time but did not like downtown Cabo. We took Pueblo Bonito’s private bus there and only stayed for an hour because we did not like Cabo (it did not feel safe) compared to Playa del Carmen, Cozumel, Puerto Vallarta and other parts of Mexico that have more charm. We just spent the week relaxing in the fairy tale world at Pueblo Bonito.

Same thing with Istanbul. I had planned a trip there in 2012 or so, I think, and canceled it due to some minor security concerns and went to Australia/New Zealand instead. Then we rebooked it and went in 2015. This time I said I was not canceling no matter what. However, we did not stay locked away in our room in Istanbul, regardless of how beautiful it was. We toured around the city for three days but only during the day. At the time, I heard cruise occupancy out of Istanbul was down to 80% because Americans were canceling left and right due to terrorism concerns. I was a bit clueless that there were terrorism problems in Turkey - I thought the Syrian border was far from where we were - and barely knew what ISIS was at that point. We had a great time traveling in Turkey without any security concerns. As we left Europe, the US put us on the no fly list. When I found this out, I asked why and the TSA agent said because I had traveled in Turkey and to get cleared with Global Entry and my problems would be solved. We read about more and more terrorism happening in and out of Turkey. ISIS started getting a lot of attention in late 2015 and 2016. Once again, I thought we were really lucky nothing bad hapened to us. I truly think we were lucky to see Turkey when we did and I doubt we will go again. The good part of the no fly list is it forced us to get Global Entry. If you don’t have Global Entry and TSA Precheck, get it! It saves us so much time now.

I doubt the problems in Mexico will actually scare me enough to completely stop visiting there. However, after 5 trips in one year to Mexico, I think we need a break. There are many other places to see.

 

[clifffaith]

The problems in Mexico in upscale locations have affected me more directly as my spouse has been sexually harassed, we have been harassed 3 times minimum by hotel staff in Mexico, and I have had a serious accident in Mexico resulting in the only broken bone and black out of my life. None of this has happened in my life and travels in the USA, Europe, Australia, Pacifica, Caribbean and elsewhere.

How did the hotel staff harass you?

 

[Jayco29D]

After thinking about this today, I suspect that Mexico is going to be just fine. Westin and other American resort companies are expanding in Mexico. The Mexican companies are expanding. Mexico has problems but I agree, all in all, if you avoid the dangerous places, you should be fine. Random violence happens everywhere. I do think Mexico is less regulated than the USA but that is changing.

 

[Jayco29D]

More info on the family who died in Tulum: http://abcnews.go.com/US/bodies-american-family-killed-gas-poisoning-mexico-coming/story?id=54001040

They rented the condo from an owner on VRBO who was responsible for the maintenance.

The toxic gas leak was either from the hot water heater or the gas stove.

The bodies are on their way home for the funeral.​

Another interesting article: https://www.desmoinesregister.com/s...on-sharp-family-toxic-gas-homeaway/457066002/

The vacation rental company a southwestern Iowa family used to travel to Mexico has removed from its website the property where the Iowans died of toxic gas inhalation.
​

Warning: Be careful who you rent from on vacation rental sites.

 

[chriskre]

So sad. I love Cancun, too. How is it that the government of Mexico can watch this happening and not find a way to stop it? Is the corruption so deep at every level that officials stand by and watch their country go to ruin?

Sadly they are outgunned and the corruption in government runs wild in so many third world countries .
My cousin was machined gunned down in the streets in the DR .
He was running for political office and naively thought he could change the system with his idealistic dreams . In the end he is dead and nothing in the country is any better . In fact it's gotten so much worse in these past years since he was assassinated . I don't even want to go there myself and my family lives in the "safe" areas. There is no safe area in the DR and it's the same in Mexico. I will take my chances in over town here in Miami any day over these countries .

 

[chriskre]

The video is informative in showing us that ignorance is bliss. The tourists interviewed had no knowledge of what was going on because the police, the government, the media don't want anyone to know, and they're doing a pretty good job of it.

The heavy police presence in tourist areas can be described as "security theatre"; just keep those gringos coming.

Ignorance can cost you dearly .
There is a reason that so many are fleeing Mexico .
My downstairs neighbors in my condo are here because they were kidnapped and had to pay ransom money to get free. They are Mexican but are now seeking asylum here in Miami .
The stories they tell are enough to keep me away .

 

[BC Bum]

If I were 20 something backpacking around, collecting experiences, that would be one thing. But I can't take the risk of putting my family in harm's way. I'm from NYC. I know the dangers of living in the US. But I don't need excessive risk on vacation. I've loved vacationing in Mexico since the 80's. But I'll pass for a while I think. And even if I do go back, doubtful I would leave the resort to go wandering like the old days.

 

[Jayco29D]

Sadly they are outgunned and the corruption in government runs wild in so many third world countries .
My cousin was machined gunned down in the streets in the DR .
He was running for political office and naively thought he could change the system with his idealistic dreams . In the end he is dead and nothing in the country is any better . In fact it's gotten so much worse in these past years since he was assassinated . I don't even want to go there myself and my family lives in the "safe" areas. There is no safe area in the DR and it's the same in Mexico. I will take my chances in over town here in Miami any day over these countries .

I am so sorry about your cousin. What a horrible tragedy. I am glad you are in Miami now. That is my hometown. Neither I, nor anyone in my huge extended family, have ever had any crime problems in Miami. While I may criticize Miami at times (as a native does), it is certainly a safe city compared to what you have experienced in your life. Thank you for bringing a real world perspective to this thread.

 

[taterhed]

From the latest reporting, all very speculative of course...

It looks like the unit they were staying in was probably located at the TAO community (A Bahia Principe private Residential community) directly across the street form the Bahia Principe Tulum resort. Not 100%, but that's probably it.

So, it is associated with Bahia Principe, but it was privately owned via VRBO in the TAO condominium complex.
This is actually a pretty high-end community from the look of it.
Very sad, and a great lesson to many, I hope.

I wonder if they make a CO and Gas portable detector. I think I used to have one for the RV. Geeze.

 

[taterhed]

I'll answer my own question: Yes they do make 'combination units' that detect both CO and gas---but the reviews are very mixed.
There are number of inexpensive units that are well reviewed that detect EITHER CO or explosive gases.... perhaps you need to travel with both.

 

[Jayco29D]

From the latest reporting, all very speculative of course...

It looks like the unit they were staying in was probably located at the TAO community (A Bahia Principe private Residential community) directly across the street form the Bahia Principe Tulum resort. Not 100%, but that's probably it.

So, it is associated with Bahia Principe, but it was privately owned via VRBO in the TAO condominium complex.
This is actually a pretty high-end community from the look of it.
Very sad, and a great lesson to many, I hope.

I wonder if they make a CO and Gas portable detector. I think I used to have one for the RV. Geeze.

That is what I read too about where they were staying and how they rented.

 

[taterhed]

This is being called a gas leak from what I have read so far. If they rented a full ownership condo from an individual owner off a vacation rental site (as the New York Times reported earlier and someone on TUG chastised me for mentioning), then this goes back to my previous comment, which I deleted. Be careful renting from individual owners on vacation rental sites. You do not always know the quality of what you are getting when you rent from an unknown individual owner, not to mention the financial risks.

And this was (apparently) a fairly high-end community with some very pricey units in the complex.
So, @Jayco29D your point is well taken.....and you can't always judge the quality either.

 

[Jayco29D]

And this was (apparently) a fairly high-end community with some very pricey units in the complex.
So, @Jayco29D your point is well taken.....and you can't always judge the quality either.

I noticed that for high end units in premier locations and with ocean views, AirBnB and VRBO are pretty pricey. So that is what convinced me to buy timeshares from reputable brands like Marriott, Westin, Disney, Four Seasons, etc. in high end locations with guaranteed views and/or selection of locations/views with points. It feels less risky in terms of financial and maintenance risk. Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought that an owner did not maintain their unit in a way that would put a family's life at risk.

 

[hurnik]

I noticed that for high end units in premier locations and with ocean views, AirBnB and VRBO are pretty pricey. So that is what convinced me to buy timeshares from reputable brands like Marriott, Westin, Disney, Four Seasons, etc. in high end locations with guaranteed views and/or selection of locations/views with points. It feels less risky in terms of financial and maintenance risk. Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought that an owner did not maintain their unit in a way that would put a family's life at risk.

Unfortunately people do that all the time with their own home (high end or otherwise). Several times a year we'll see local news reports about a family or someone dying because of either no CO2 detectors or ones that they've never changed the battery. Of course, that prompted Governor Cuomo to sign a law mandating something like all CO2 detectors sold in NY can't have removable batteries anymore (if they're battery powered alone), so that when it dies, it dies and you have to replace the whole unit.

 

[Jayco29D]

Unfortunately people do that all the time with their own home (high end or otherwise). Several times a year we'll see local news reports about a family or someone dying because of either no CO2 detectors or ones that they've never changed the battery. Of course, that prompted Governor Cuomo to sign a law mandating something like all CO2 detectors sold in NY can't have removable batteries anymore (if they're battery powered alone), so that when it dies, it dies and you have to replace the whole unit.

Now that I think of it, you are probably right. We are meticulous about changing our smoke detector batteries, having a fire extinguisher in all locations and keeping up with maintenance and safety items at our homes and in my offices (I am a small business owner). It has never occurred to me other people don't do these things.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

Now that I think of it, you are probably right. We are meticulous ...... It has never occurred to me other people don't do these things.

Meticulous - organized - timeshare owner who plans ahead . Hmm...
<there are benefits to mild OCD>

Brian runs a self help forum . Timeshares just happen to be the topic .

PS - this is a compliment

 

[Jayco29D]

The investigation seems to conclude death by asphyxiation due to a gas leak from a hot water heater. How can this happen in this day and age! I am so sad.

https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/of...il&utm_term=0_f1536a3787-bb79ef641f-349557009

 

[VacationForever]

The investigation seems to conclude death by asphyxiation due to a gas leak from a hot water heater. How can this happen in this day and age! I am so sad.

https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/of...il&utm_term=0_f1536a3787-bb79ef641f-349557009

When I read that I think of all the homes I have owned and in the newer homes the water heater is housed either outside in an adjacent enclosure or within the garage. In another home that was built in the 30s, the water heater was in a closet within the house. Then on our last trip at Westin Mission Hills, we had complained that the water was not heating up, the technician came into the unit and opened up a closet. I suspect the water heater is housed within timeshare condos, or in this case, dedicated condos.

 

[pittle]

This is awful that it happened. After reading about this, one of my brothers sent us a Carbon Monoxide/Explosive Gas Monitor. He said to plug it in wherever we are on vacation. He is looking out for sis! I will add this to my rolling computer bag that is always ready to go. We will need it when we go to a condo in Rosarito Beach area for a month this summer for sure as we know there is gas water heater in a hall closet near the bedrooms.

Since we are going to the Grand Bliss in Riviera Maya in 3 weeks, I'm not concerned as they do not have hot water heaters in the units, and it will be warm enough for A/C.

 

[x3 skier]

Recently the observation about each one making their own risk assessment manifested itself to me.

Every year after spending the ski season in Steamboat Springs, I travel to my Raintree timeshare in one of their Mexican locations to “warm up”. A friend has traveled with me in the past but this year she felt it was too risky while I was not concerned at all.

So instead we’re taking a Eastern Caribbean cruise.

Cheers

 

[PigsDad]

Since we are going to the Grand Bliss in Riviera Maya in 3 weeks, I'm not concerned as they do not have hot water heaters in the units, and it will be warm enough for A/C.

Just a reminder -- if a unit has a gas stove, that has the same potential produce a gas leak as a water heater.

Kurt

P.S. Not sure what a "hot water heater" is -- why would you have to heat water that is hot already?

 

[VacationForever]

We live in a condo where we only get electricity and there is no gas going to any units. The building is also built of steel by a builder who specializes in building hospitals. It was certainly a consideration when we were selecting between this condo and another condo across the lake. The tragic death of this family reinforces that we made the right decision to own where we now live.

 

[Eric B]

Not sure what a "hot water heater" is -- why would you have to heat water that is hot already?

Technically speaking that analysis only applies to the initial batch heating of a water heater with a tank; once the water is at a temperature considered hot enough for household use a thermostat cycles power to the heater to keep the hot water hot. In this state, it would really be a “hot water heater,” adding sufficient heat over time to make up for ambient losses.

It might be a bit different consideration in the case of a tankless one where the water is not batch heated and there’s no need to make up for ambient losses. In such a case, however, there is a point in which water passing through the heater would be slightly above the desired “hot water” temperature at the tap in order to make up for ambient losses in the piping between the “hot water heater” and the point of use (i.e., the shower, tap, or dishwasher). Given that at some point in the process it is hot water that is being heated, a tankless one could also be considered a “hot water heater.”

Bottom line is that to avoid needing a “hot water heater,” one would need perfect insulation to avoid heat losses to the piping and surrounding environment while delivering hot water to the point of use at the desired temperature.