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Shell to Wyndham Presentation

Discussion in 'Wyndham Vacation Resorts' started by JohnPaul, Jun 4, 2019.

  1. california dreaming

    california dreaming Guest

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    I am a newby on this forum with the attempt to understand what is going on with the Shell/Wyndham changes. We are Shell Elite members with17,000 points in 4 contracts including one last year with access to 36(?) Wyndham properties. We have been members since 2006 and have been happy with the system. Now - I am perplexed. We just bought the 84,000 Wyndham points ($19,000) to get the benefit of both systems with the thought of converting to Wyndham points. Of course that decision has not been made. The idea also is that we could use the Ovation program, at some point to get out of the system, if needed.
    However, we stay at the Vino Bello about twice a year (our son lives in Napa) and our son and daughter use some SFO locations and Hawaii. We have rented points for our son to stay in SFO, great value.
    When I went on the Club Wyndham website and find that the Vino Bello is unavailable (it seems like forever) but is available on the Shell website. Also, two of the SFO locations Inn at the Opera and Suites at Fishermans WF are not even listed as options.
    If I convert my points will we be able to go to the Vino Bello?
    I am wondering if I want to convert.
    The second factor in the decision - If I convert, I may be able in the future to give the points back to Wyndham but cannot if we stay with Shell and probably cannot even get rid of the Shell points.
    Third - It seems as if the Shell are deeded contracts (we have the deeds) but I am wondering if the Wyndham program is a right to use program and not a deeded contract. How does that work?
    I have no idea where this is going. Maybe I convert to Wyndham and in a year or so try to use the Ovation program to get out of everything.
    Probably too many questions for one post. But I thought I would try.
    Thanks for your help.
     
  2. Grammarhero

    Grammarhero Official TUGBBS Rescission Master TUG Member

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    Wyndham, EY 434k pts
    Williamsburg Plant, EY 4L/4
    DRI South Bend, EY 1/1

    Been to:
    Intl: Aruba, Aus, Bah, China, Jpn, HK, Macau, Mex
    US: AZ, CA, DC, DE, IL, IN, KY, MD, NC, NJ, NV, NY, OH, OR, PA, SC, TN, TX, VA, WA, WV
    Rescind. I bought 276k Wyndham points for $3 (three) dollars. You paid $19k too much for your 84k pts. You got oversold and lied to about using CWA pts and availability for Shell resorts. Availability is few and far in between.
     
  3. california dreaming

    california dreaming Guest

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    When I say we just bought, it was last week, so it is too late to rescind.
     
  4. Grammarhero

    Grammarhero Official TUGBBS Rescission Master TUG Member

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    Wyndham, EY 434k pts
    Williamsburg Plant, EY 4L/4
    DRI South Bend, EY 1/1

    Been to:
    Intl: Aruba, Aus, Bah, China, Jpn, HK, Macau, Mex
    US: AZ, CA, DC, DE, IL, IN, KY, MD, NC, NJ, NV, NY, OH, OR, PA, SC, TN, TX, VA, WA, WV
    That’s a shame. Did you buy in CA? If so you have seven days to rescind. Wyndham does have a fax number.
     
  5. Grammarhero

    Grammarhero Official TUGBBS Rescission Master TUG Member

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    Wyndham, EY 434k pts
    Williamsburg Plant, EY 4L/4
    DRI South Bend, EY 1/1

    Been to:
    Intl: Aruba, Aus, Bah, China, Jpn, HK, Macau, Mex
    US: AZ, CA, DC, DE, IL, IN, KY, MD, NC, NJ, NV, NY, OH, OR, PA, SC, TN, TX, VA, WA, WV
     

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  6. JohnPaul

    JohnPaul TUG Review Crew: Expert TUG Member

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    My understanding of the offer to "convert" your Shell to Wyndham is that you keep everything Shell and get the ability to use your Shell points as Wyndham points at a 40:1 ratio. As such your ability to book properties such as Vino Bello is supposed to not be affected.

    It is really some kind of hybrid Shell/Wyndham ownership and is not the same thing as if you just bought Wyndham by itself.
     
    Grammarhero likes this.
  7. california dreaming

    california dreaming Guest

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    Interesting! Thanks for that input. That makes a difference. That suggests that the Ovation program would not work for the Shell deeds. It helps me to ask the right questions when the program comes out. So confusing.
     
  8. bizaro86

    bizaro86 TUG Member

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    There have been people who have given shell back to ovation. I wouldn't spend money just to secure that.
     
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  9. dgalati

    dgalati TUG Member

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    Was this a CWA ownership and if not CWA what resort was it deeded at? Were the closing costs and resort transfer fee included in the $3 purchase price?
     
  10. Grammarhero

    Grammarhero Official TUGBBS Rescission Master TUG Member

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    Been to:
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    US: AZ, CA, DC, DE, IL, IN, KY, MD, NC, NJ, NV, NY, OH, OR, PA, SC, TN, TX, VA, WA, WV
    $200 closing costs for star island for 128k EY pts. $1 for 64k EY CWA. $1 for 84k EY Ocean Walk (I may come to regret that).
     
  11. dgalati

    dgalati TUG Member

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    Have no regrets. You can always give them away on marketplace or see if Wyndham will take them back Ovations. You have to own for at least 1 year to be eligible for the Ovations program.
     
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  12. Grammarhero

    Grammarhero Official TUGBBS Rescission Master TUG Member

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    Been to:
    Intl: Aruba, Aus, Bah, China, Jpn, HK, Macau, Mex
    US: AZ, CA, DC, DE, IL, IN, KY, MD, NC, NJ, NV, NY, OH, OR, PA, SC, TN, TX, VA, WA, WV
    star island MF with program fee is $6.35/1k. I probably could have demanded paying $100 instead, but the seller was a mother, so I was sympathetic. CWA MF is $6.46/1k. I may retreat Ocean Walk because MF is $6.62/1k, so I may regret that.

    I did decline a Kingsgate at outrageous $7.1MF/1k.
     
  13. dgalati

    dgalati TUG Member

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    The higher monthly maintenance fee deeds are hard to give away even if the seller was paying all closing and resort transfer fees. If deeds were eligible or qualified for Ovations it would be a less costly option for the seller.
     
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  14. california dreaming

    california dreaming Guest

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    Do we think this 40 to 1 SVC to CWA transfer is time limited or will this always be an option? I am not ready to loose access to the Vino Bello, (SVC Elite) at this time - maybe later, but would like the diversity of CWA Gold. I am asking here because I don't believe I would get an answer that I could trust from Wyndham people.
     
  15. rickandcindy23

    rickandcindy23 TUG Review Crew: Expert TUG Member

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    Sounds like you wouldn't lose your ability to book Vino Bello because you could use your Shell points for it, like you always have.

    I would never fall for this sales' pitch. It's a baloney.
     
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  16. ptkkmmm1

    ptkkmmm1 TUG Member

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    Ok, after spending (rescission window) days reading the contract and attached documents, and many inquiries in writing and by phone to really understand it - this is actual result: You will GIVE UP all of your Shell points and status (Signature included) and all Shell perks. None of that stays in place. The only way to book at a Shell Resort is to remain Shell, or hope it is in RCI inventory or gets added in the future to WCA or CWP, as some Shell Resorts currently are - for example Peacock Suites. I would say it is highly unlikely that Vino Bello will be available based on my search of their online search capability. It is theoretically there, but only as 1 night stays here and there, while WCA requires minimum 2 nights. So - plan on that being a big "no."

    In exchange for thousands of developer fee dollars for whatever amount of points they are selling directly as WCA, Which you COULD "buy" the minimum to do this, you will have completely converted to Wyndham Club Access (at 40:1), so maintenance fees technically can decrease since WCA is cheaper overall than is Shell. In addition, once converted, all with additional membership access through Windham Club Partners, and if you are Signature now, you may end up being WCA Silver / Gold/ Platinum with those benefits. If, and only if, WCA adds Shell Resorts to their inventory will you have that 10 month advance window to book into Shell. But no more Point and Play and grab a night here or there. You will get a larger point discount, depending on Signature level exchange to WCA level exchange. (For example, Shell's Signature Elite is a 20% discount at 45 days out; potential free upgrade up to 4 times a year in that window. WCA Gold is a 35% discount at 60 days out; potential upgrade at 45 days out). Worldmark bookings cost $99 internally and are open to you between 9 months max in advance or 60 days (maybe 15? days) before check in. Once Gold or higher, some Margaritaville resorts become available as well. All WCA exchanges and all CWP exchanges are at no charge. Seems they stick you on housekeeping fees if you are not at least Silver (equivalent to Signature's lowest level). Also, WCA keeps right if first refusal to sell your timeshare back to them (for free, I am sure). Whereas under Shell you can sell it yourself. The transfer of points to WCA from Shell costs you $189 per eligible contract. There is no fee to have each contract join WCA (the $2k plus quoted elsewhere here for enrolling your WCA resale purchase into the whole she-bang.) WCA has a better deal on Norwegian cruises, if you like to cruise, than the Shell by Sea. The airline choices change for WCA from Shell by Air options. No more PlayDeck cards (which were a terrible exchange idea anyway) Both WCA and Shell give similar discounts on rental cars, etc.

    TBH, we wanted to have it all in one pile for a while now. Will be selling our Riverpointe -am in progress now. Shell was good for us for a long time, but getting too limited on options. Also - seems Shell is cutting back on its perks. Wyndham will do that. So Blue-Green for a $5 exchange fee will be gone soon. Playdeck is now one form of card only, and only in the Shell member name (we gave them to our kids one Christmas for restaurants). So expect less flexibility with Shell, not more. Expect fewer perks, not more.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  17. ptkkmmm1

    ptkkmmm1 TUG Member

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    Oh, and whether this remains an offer of 40:1 for any amount of time or not, I think the rate will hold close to that (at least for Signature - so you stay "prestige" or "elite" etc., or there is no incentive to switch). For less than Signature level, who knows, but probably not. They will want the inventory without build out costs. They will pitch lower maintenance fees as the hook.

    Shell had a limit on the # of transactions per year. WCA does not. In WCA you can choose the exact unit you want, not just unit type. I see it as far more options for a lower exchange fee than previous, as one perk of doing it - for thousands of dollars.

    Right now you can book into Outrigger as Signature or through either Collections or Lifestyles (I always get those mixed up). No longer will have Outrigger access at all once you are WCA only. Margaritaville "might" be available for WCA/WCP members if Silver/Gold/Platinum. Later there will be 5 levels of WCA (Gold becomes Ambassador, for example).
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  18. california dreaming

    california dreaming Guest

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    Thank you for that clarification, that is what I expected. What do we do with our SVC deeds? Do we sign them over to Wyndham?
    Also $189 per contract not a single $189 for all contracts. I am surprised that Wyndham does not have access to Vino Bello. Maybe they will as more people give up their Shell deeds and convert to CWA.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
  19. Richelle

    Richelle TUG Member

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    Few things. I do think not having access to the Shell resorts that are not in Club Wyndham is the biggest draw back. If you are within driving distance of those resorts and not as many Club Wyndham resorts, you might not have as many choices if you like to drive to places. If your favorite resorts are not in Club Wyndham, that would be a bummer too. However, as people start converting, that inventory will be added to the Club Wyndham system. It will take years to do it, but there will be more availability eventually. Obviously if you’re up there on age, you may not want to wait years. Bottom line is they will start adding more Shell inventory over time, which means more availability for Club Wyndham Plus members, and less for Shell members. Most of it will likely go into CWA but Club Wyndham Select members will still be able to book it at 10 months.

    Club pass is available at 9 months from check in. They stop taking reservations at 15 days from check in.

    You get a certain number of housekeeping credits every year along with your points. If you run out, it’s $2.25 per credit. How many you need depends on unit size. Supposedly they are supposed to be changing how they handle housekeeping when the changes take effect late next year. Instead of credits, it’s “number of free cleans”. I am not sure if everyone gets the same amount of free cleans, or it goes by point level or membership level. There is also no word on how much housekeeping will be if you run out of “free cleans”. It will be a much simpler system for people to follow then trying to calculate how many housekeeping credits they will need for their vacations when they plan for them. If they only have one trip plan for the whole year, it’s usually not difficult. However, if they have multiple vacations with different size units, it can be hard to keep track of, if you’re not as experienced with the system. Number of free cleans is easier to plan for. Whether it will be enough free cleans is a whole other story. Current VIPs and anyone who becomes VIP before the changes take effect will keep their unlimited housekeeping benefit. New VIPs after the changes take effect, will not have unlimited housekeeping.

    There were some recent changes to Margaritaville that haven’t been updated on the site as far as I can tell. It was announced in an email to Non-VIP members. Margaritaville Rio Mar and Margaritaville St. Thomas is available to everyone five months from check in. Pigeon Forge is not available to non-VIP. Silver has access to all Margaritaville resorts six months from check in during any season. Gold and Platinum can check on during any season at 8 months and 10 months respectively.

    Wyndham does not have right if first refusal in their contracts. Individual resorts have ROFR on Presidential reserve contracts though. The way ROFR works, is if I sell a PR contract for $10,000, the resort has the option to buy that contract at that price. They cannot refuse the sale and take the contract back for free. If they want to refuse it, they have to pay whatever the sale price is. So the seller gets their money and the buyer gets a refund on their money and no contract. ROFR works great if you’re a seller and they decide to exercise it. Otherwise, you can sell or give away your contracts to anyone who is eligible to be a Club Wyndham member. As far as I know, you only have to be 18 to own, but resorts require you to be 21 to check in. However, I believe they make an exception if they are the owner.

    It does not cost $2,000 to enroll a resale contract. It’s $299 plus whatever the closing company charges.

    I’m not sure about the cash discounts, but point costs for cruises is a terrible deal. The maintenance fees on the points you would use are about double the cash value if the cruise, depending on your maintenance fees.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  20. rickandcindy23

    rickandcindy23 TUG Review Crew: Expert TUG Member

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    This is why I rent Peacock Suites at my cost, to recover my fees for Shell. I see no reason to move to a new program and feel sorry for owners who are made to feel like they must move. I have no idea who ptkmmm1 is and want to know how they are experts on this conversion of Shell to Wyndham. Where did you get your info? You have three messages on TUG and it's about Shell. Just curious.
     
  21. Richelle

    Richelle TUG Member

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    Outrigger is available to those who have Outrigger contracts. I own three Bali Hai contracts that are Outrigger in addition to my National Harbor points. I can book Outrigger inventory but only with my Outrigger points. Some Outrigger resorts have inventory for non-Outrigger members, but not all Outrigger resorts do. VIP for not get access to Outrigger without an Outrigger contract.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  22. thegortons

    thegortons TUG Member

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    Which type of Playdeck card did they keep?
     
  23. wynBob

    wynBob Guest

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    Any time a timeshare salesperson says a window is closed but they might be able to get you the same offer, they are either lying or misinformed. You should not trust anything else that person says.

    The announcement by Wyndham in the Shell newsletter clearly states that this is a voluntary program available at specified sakes centers. I’m confident that a year from now they will be glad to take your money for the same option.
     
  24. california dreaming

    california dreaming Guest

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    I called Wyndham yesterday to inquire about their ovations program for Shell Vacations Club members.
    They transferred me to a Shell Vacations representative and she was very helpful. Obviously they are separate program.
    I will be using this program as soon as I use up current points.
    I have 84,000 Wyndham CWA points that I cannot put in ovations until next august - need to hold one year.
    If anyone wants these points let me know.
     
  25. HitchHiker71

    HitchHiker71 TUG Member

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    Just curious, why after spending a significant chunk of money on 84k CWA developer points, plus whatever you received from the conversion - if it was actually 17000 Shell developer points - that would equate to 680k CWA points - which means you are permanent VIPG in Wyndham now - and possibly temporary VIPP if you also received any bonus points as part of this transaction - would you simply want to exit in entirety so quickly? Did you pay for the 84k Wyndham points in cash/full at the time of purchase, or did you finance? FYI you cannot use Ovations if there is any balance due on the actual points purchase - it must be paid in full first.
     

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