Sumday Vacations?

[comicbookman]

I've had it happen to me too. Sumday has many of the same items on ebay. On ebay they have the disclaimer :



If they have the same disclaimer on their website I haven't seen it.

Basically it seems like they give themselves about 12 hours maybe a day and if it sells on one of the sites for more (or if the ebay sale is above the purchase price on the website at the time the purchase is made) it goes to the highest priced purchase. It was about 4 days later when I was contacted. They asked if there was anything else I wanted to apply my payment to and when I said no I had my refund less than 48 hrs later.

Maybe the delay was because it sold on ebay (for more) and they were waiting for the payment and would have given it to me if the other buyer flaked out.

It can be disappointing and a little annoying but it isn't enough to keep me from bidding or checking their inventory to see if there is something that I might like.

If you are correct, then what they are doing is illegal. It is called fraud. They had a contract with you (and Linda), accepted payment, then backed out. Unless it was a legitimate mistake, it is fraud. If it happens often than it goes out of the realm of mistake and into the realm of negligence. I fail to see why you would bother with them again.

 

[dioxide45]

There was a company several years back called IntervalMax that sold units that were traded in during a purchase transactions. That is how we ended up with our Harbour Lake unit. There was actually a double closing in that the week transferred from the owner, to IntervalMax then from IntervalMax to us. They are no longer in business, but it sounds like Sumday has a similar operation. But I don't think they do double closings?

 

[vacationhopeful]

If you are correct, then what they are doing is illegal. It is called fraud. They had a contract with you (and Linda), accepted payment, then backed out. Unless it was a legitimate mistake, it is fraud. If it happens often than it goes out of the realm of mistake and into the realm of negligence. I fail to see why you would bother with them again.

I paid for this on Sunday, April 12th around 7:30AM... but the $499 was taken from my bank on Tues April 14th. This was MINE ... brought and paid for. To come back to me at 5:25PM on FRI April 17th ... emailing it was SOLD prior when the WEB site immediately TOOK the item down off its web page, IS WRONG! Totally wrong!

If the webpage took it down for me (the public), it was down/off to any of their agents, too. It was gone ... not a 3rd party web site ... their direct and LIVE WEB site. A Web site which took MY PAYMENT and who suck the money out of my bank account ASAP fast as any computer to computer processing allowed.

This was NOT an eBAY transaction ... this was a direct buy from their WEB site ... I was emailed at the close of business on FRIDAY ... not before NOON on Monday. But it does NOT matter ... their website took it down the minute I PAID for it... gone like it never existed. They (their agent was their computer) took my payment and my payment was sucked out of my account faster than a check clearing.

I am so UNHAPPY ... and to just leave me HANG all weekend? Fools!

VERY BAD BUSINESS .... Monday at 9AM email is "the website" issue over the weekend might have been accepted or an excuse. The very close of business email from your office .... NOT BELIEVABLE that it took a whole business week to discover your BAD(ass) computer issue as you had my money (the payment) for 5 business days)!!!!

 

[WinniWoman]

You are reminding me of what just recently happened when I traded my Smugglers Notch week for a Pollard Brook week for this upcoming Sept. through Trading Places. It is the first time I have used them and it was before I became a Pollard Brook owner myself.

Anyway, when I saw the week I wanted available on their website (and I was checking daily), I called and reserved it immediately and gave them my Smugglers Notch week.I was concerned that until they verified my ownership/usage of that week, that the Pollard Brook week would not be reserved for me, but the rep. did reserve it. He said it would take a week or so to confirm everything. Everything eventually showed on my account.

When I looked online, I could see the Smugglers Notch week I deposited showing as available, but I still saw the Pollard Brook week as available as well. I called and asked a rep about it and she said it was probably a different unit for the same week and as long as I had my confirmation I was all set. I am still skeptical. Think I should call the resort?

 

[vacationhopeful]

Got to love TUG ... the owner of Sumday is a TUG Member ... so I sent him a PM referencing this thread ... wanting the week I brought via their website last Sunday morning ....

And bumping this thread ....

 

[theo]

<snip> the owner of Sumday is a TUG Member, so I sent him a PM referencing this thread wanting the week I brought via their website last Sunday morning. And bumping this thread ....

I have no dog in this fight, but I will be certainly be interested to see if Jeff Brown steps up with either a credible explanation or a satisfactory resolution for you.

It may be that you got "aced out" by a buyer who acted via a different ad / purchase channel and Sumday was a step too slow in removing their own web site ad. Sumday owes you a clear, definitive, specific (and hopefully credible) explanation in any case.

Keep "bumping up" this subject line / thread and keep this matter right out there for all to see and for Sumday's public explanation and / or resolution. Good luck!

 

[dioxide45]

I paid for this on Sunday, April 12th around 7:30AM... but the $499 was taken from my bank on Tues April 14th. This was MINE ... brought and paid for. To come back to me at 5:25PM on FRI April 17th ... emailing it was SOLD prior when the WEB site immediately TOOK the item down off its web page, IS WRONG! Totally wrong!

If the webpage took it down for me (the public), it was down/off to any of their agents, too. It was gone ... not a 3rd party web site ... their direct and LIVE WEB site. A Web site which took MY PAYMENT and who suck the money out of my bank account ASAP fast as any computer to computer processing allowed.

This was NOT an eBAY transaction ... this was a direct buy from their WEB site ... I was emailed at the close of business on FRIDAY ... not before NOON on Monday. But it does NOT matter ... their website took it down the minute I PAID for it... gone like it never existed. They (their agent was their computer) took my payment and my payment was sucked out of my account faster than a check clearing.

I am so UNHAPPY ... and to just leave me HANG all weekend? Fools!

VERY BAD BUSINESS .... Monday at 9AM email is "the website" issue over the weekend might have been accepted or an excuse. The very close of business email from your office .... NOT BELIEVABLE that it took a whole business week to discover your BAD(ass) computer issue as you had my money (the payment) for 5 business days)!!!!

Without an explanation from Sumday, we can only guess. But it sounds like they sold the week outside of their website channel. Perhaps through Ebay or perhaps someone called them to buy it instead of going through the shopping cart. At that point it should have been pulled from the website but was not. If they make you happy and give you the week, then they make some other person that they promised the week to unhappy. So for Sumday it is really a no win situation.

 

[Bailey#1]

Is it possible the seller backed out and change their mind about selling?

 

[vacationhopeful]

.... If they make you happy and give you the week, then they make some other person that they promised the week to unhappy. So for Sumday it is really a no win situation.

I am so UNHAPPY as to HOW they handled it .... I paid Sunday 7:30AM via the website.

They emailed me 5 minutes before the close of business on Friday afternoon when their next business hours started on Monday morning ....

Paid on Sunday ... and did not look at anything for a WEEK?

I am calling "BAD BUSINESS" on that timeline..... When I paid on Sunday at 7:30AM ... the ad went DOWN on the web site. NO way someone else PAID for it ... via the web. And to wait the entire business week ... emailing me the lesser unit offer 5 minutes before the close of the entire business week ... "DOUBLE BAD BUSINESS".

I suspect someone offered SUMDAY VACATIONS more money AFTER the computer took my MONEY! The other party was THINKING about it ... but I brought and paid for it ... their office is NOT opened from Friday afternoon til Monday morning. Sorry, the internet is open 24/7 which is WHY they have a so very nice website which accepts payments to sell shoppers their product.

 

[tschwa2]

just curious, what was the property?

 

[csxjohn]

There are no completed sales for the TS Linda "bought" during that time frame. I'm interested in what Jeff says also since I have dealt with Sumday in the past and think I would again.

I thought I read that this is the resort being talked about but looking back I may have seen it in connection with another thread. It it's this resort then it wasn't sold on eBay.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

Is it possible the seller backed out and change their mind about selling?

Very unlikely. Sumday generally has everything signed by the sellers ahead of time which then gives them the authority to transfer in the future. The seller does not actually have a right to back out. In theory the seller could fraudulently transfer to someone else in the mean time but it would take a while to find that out.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

If you are correct, then what they are doing is illegal. It is called fraud. They had a contract with you (and Linda), accepted payment, then backed out. Unless it was a legitimate mistake, it is fraud. If it happens often than it goes out of the realm of mistake and into the realm of negligence. I fail to see why you would bother with them again.

Does their web site check-out system count as a valid real estate contract? What about a buy-it-now on ebay? I agree that the long delay in the response is unreasonable but I also do not believe there was any contract yet, which wouldn't be with Sumday anyway.

This type of thing happening is not unusual with any seller. I know it happens with Sumday since it happened to me although I found out fairly quick. The long delay is the gripe and warrants an explanation but I don't see any fraud here.

 

[comicbookman]

Does their web site check-out system count as a valid real estate contract? What about a buy-it-now on ebay? I agree that the long delay in the response is unreasonable but I also do not believe there was any contract yet, which wouldn't be with Sumday anyway.

This type of thing happening is not unusual with any seller. I know it happens with Sumday since it happened to me although I found out fairly quick. The long delay is the gripe and warrants an explanation but I don't see any fraud here.

Since the web site check-out represents a complete transaction, It is a valid contract. You have an offer (the listing) you have acceptance on the part of the buyer (putting it in the cart and paying for it) and acceptance and acknowledgement from the seller (accepting payment and acknowledging it's receipt. The email confirmation qualifies as writing. The long delay makes the mistake excuse unusable.

 

[taterhed]

Hmm...getting interesting.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

Since the web site check-out represents a complete transaction, It is a valid contract. You have an offer (the listing) you have acceptance on the part of the buyer (putting it in the cart and paying for it) and acceptance and acknowledgement from the seller (accepting payment and acknowledging it's receipt. The email confirmation qualifies as writing. The long delay makes the mistake excuse unusable.

I could be wrong but I think that two people can add the same item to their cart and both check-out. I don't think it goes away until someone completes the check-out payment process. I believe this is what happened to me. I just accept the fact that this can happen and keep looking for the next unit. I have had CJ Timeshares/Discount Timeshares willingly and with intent do far, far worse than what is described here and yet they are supposedly still "reputable".

If you are correct about the check-out system being binding then ebay purchases would also be binding. I thought everyone understood that an ebay purchase for real estate was not binding. I thought the whole reason eBay has the disclaimer is because their purchase process is not considered a valid contract and therefore an "fyi". If it's just their policy then it is meaningless because they are not a buying, selling, or broker party and therefore they have no say in the contract.

 

[theo]

Comparing apples and oranges?

I could be wrong but I think that two people can add the same item to their cart and both check-out. I don't think it goes away until someone completes the check-out payment process. I believe this is what happened to me. I just accept the fact that this can happen and keep looking for the next unit. I have had CJ Timeshares/Discount Timeshares willingly and with intent do far, far worse than what is described here and yet they are supposedly still "reputable".

If you are correct about the check-out system being binding then ebay purchases would also be binding. I thought everyone understood that an ebay purchase for real estate was not binding. I thought the whole reason eBay has the disclaimer is because their purchase process is not considered a valid contract and therefore an "fyi". If it's just their policy then it is meaningless because they are not a buying, selling, or broker party and therefore they have no say in the contract.

It is perhaps relevant that Linda's was not an eBay transaction, but a direct purchase initiated on Sumday's own internal web site.

A very different situation than on eBay, where any and all real estate "bids" and / or "buy" submissions are not binding anyhow, I'd respectfully submit.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

It is perhaps relevant that Linda's was not an eBay transaction, but a direct purchase initiated on Sumday's own internal web site.

A very different situation than on eBay, where any and all real estate "bids" and / or "buy" submissions are not binding anyhow, I'd respectfully submit.

I am ignorant. Why are they not binding when another internet store front would be? Is it because it's their "policy"? That's the part I don't fully understand.

Per ebay:

Due to state laws and the complexities of real estate and vehicle transactions, bids in those categories are non-binding.

If state law prohibits an ebay transaction from being considered legally binding, would it not apply to other types of electronic store fronts? Perhaps not every state, but it must be at least one.

 

[theo]

Why are they not binding when another internet store front would be?

An excellent question, but one I cannot definitively answer. I am inclined to believe (....read merely speculate) that eBay does not want to run afoul of any state law that might be interpreted to mean that that eBay would have to have a state real estate license (which eBay would of course never consider obtaining), whereas the direct resellers already have a signed Power of Attorney in hand to literally represent the actual owner, as sort of de facto owner (for transaction purposes, anyhow).

In short, maybe a direct transaction with an Internet reseller with PoA but without any other "unauthorized intermediary" involvement (such as eBay) can just legally execute a valid contract entirely on its' own, state real estate law notwithstanding? Just theorizing; I frankly just plain dunno for certain and won't claim to.

 

[comicbookman]

I am ignorant. Why are they not binding when another internet store front would be? Is it because it's their "policy"? That's the part I don't fully understand.

Yes. EBay's rules state that real estate transactions are non-binding. Therefore all Offers (listings) on ebay contain that out. Any written contract can be non-binding if that is what is agreed to in writing. Sumday's website, to the best of my knowledge, does not contain any such language. Also to address the 2 people in the cart issue, any decent checkout system will only allow on person to COMPLETE a purchase for a unique item. Linda, not only completed the transaction, but several days went by before she was notified of a problem, just before closing time on a Friday.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

Yes. EBay's rules state that real estate transactions are non-binding. Therefore all Offers (listings) on ebay contain that out. Any written contract can be non-binding if that is what is agreed to in writing. Sumday's website, to the best of my knowledge, does not contain any such language. Also to address the 2 people in the cart issue, any decent checkout system will only allow on person to COMPLETE a purchase for a unique item. Linda, not only completed the transaction, but several days went by before she was notified of a problem, just before closing time on a Friday.

Read my ebay quote that I added above. Apparently they have this term due to state law in one or more states. If state law makes it non-binding, then no term is technically needed.

I fully agree that they need to fix their system to be more efficient and prevent duplicate purchases.

 

[comicbookman]

Read my ebay quote that I added above. Apparently they have this term due to state law in one or more states. If state law makes it non-binding, then no term is technically needed.

I fully agree that they need to fix their system to be more efficient and prevent duplicate purchases.

True, but I would believe this is just ebay covering themselves, as they don't like to have to comply with differing state laws. I doubt any state makes an online real estate transaction non-binding period. The question would be did the particular transaction meet all the usual state requirements. Ebay does not want to deal with 50 different sets of conditions.

 

[staceyeileen]

I understand why someone would be upset in this situation, but I don't think Sumday is scamming or frauding anyone here. Obviously there was an inventory error of some kind, and I'd be willing to be that Sumday will offer an explanation in this thread. Certainly they will refund all monies paid if she does not want to take the "lesser" unit. As for being notified on Friday close of business and them not being open all weekend.... well, if that's when they discovered the error, I wouldn't expect them to respond to phone calls or emails during non-business hours regardless of how many CAPITALIZED words it may contain.

 

[vacationhopeful]

I got a text back from Sumday during my AM "real job" activities ... yes, I have a "real job" but it has a lot of flexible hours and other adventures... this AM was a run to Home Depot & another to Walmart and an hour with a heating contractor plus multiple phone calls. Plus making sure my contractor is working (verses waiting) on what I THINK he said he was going to be doing.

"Was so sorry about the delay in returning my Friday phone calls. Confusion over the unit listed - wrong unit WEEK ... please call me back when available." ...

The checkout I used to buy was thru the Sumday online systems -- no eBay.

Now, do I go back to REAL work or "play" with my timeshare stuff????

 

[comicbookman]

I understand why someone would be upset in this situation, but I don't think Sumday is scamming or frauding anyone here. Obviously there was an inventory error of some kind, and I'd be willing to be that Sumday will offer an explanation in this thread. Certainly they will refund all monies paid if she does not want to take the "lesser" unit. As for being notified on Friday close of business and them not being open all weekend.... well, if that's when they discovered the error, I wouldn't expect them to respond to phone calls or emails during non-business hours regardless of how many CAPITALIZED words it may contain.

Sorry, 5 business days later and then at Friday at close of business? An amazing coincidence. Mistakes happen, but this is incredibly suspicious timing. Even giving them the benefit of the doubt, 5 business days before discovering a mistake, is pretty bad. Keep in mind that even after 5 days the notice did not contain any explanation of what was wrong, just that they were backing out of a signed and paid for deal, and oh by the way we can give you a lesser item for rather than refund your money. Looks like classic bait and switch. The timing, the lack of explanation and the lessor offer for the same price, are the elements that make this look really bad. Hopefully Jeff will post an explanation (or he will send one to Linda who will post it) and we can make more informed judgments.