The Timeshare industry is broken - action is required

[vacationhopeful]

....gotta wonder why the Smuggs HOA decided to bring in the devil to help out if everything is good there

The timeshare business model has changed ... due to the "economy" or "vacation patterns" or "resort just got too old".

A 2 week ownership worked well when employees aged up to 4 or 5 weeks of annual paid vacations (while most have less than 2 weeks, if any vacation at all now). Grandparents aren't able to get the 'kids' to join them 'up in the woods'. WDW calls as does cruises or summer school. Grandparents are older than 25 years ago ... my siblings have way fewer children than our parents AND the kids' summers are planned as education school time or extended family visits 1000+ miles from home.

Smuggs owners might have just wanted to 'cash out' ... and Wyndham was interested.

 

[WinniWoman]

The timeshare business model has changed ... due to the "economy" or "vacation patterns" or "resort just got too old".

A 2 week ownership worked well when employees aged up to 4 or 5 weeks of annual paid vacations (while most have less than 2 weeks, if any vacation at all now). Grandparents aren't able to get the 'kids' to join them 'up in the woods'. WDW calls as does cruises or summer school. Grandparents are older than 25 years ago ... my siblings have way fewer children than our parents AND the kids' summers are planned as education school time or extended family visits 1000+ miles from home.

Smuggs owners might have just wanted to 'cash out' ... and Wyndham was interested.

But most are not able to cash out because most of those owners are in the older buildings that Wyndham does not want.

 

[ronparise]

But most are not able to cash out because most of those owners are in the older buildings that Wyndham does not want.

Then just sell them through a local broker or do it yourself on ebay

 

[WinniWoman]

Then just sell them through a local broker or do it yourself on ebay

They are trying but no luck for many of them.

As for me- we were considering divesting through the Farewell Program but changed our minds for now at least. We are keeping our ownership there and not renewing benefits. We like having the use of the condo in summer and we do have a pool and gym and clubhouse as part of our ownership. Our building was built in 1998 and is actually kind of in one of the newer complexes. (considered "deluxe" by Wyndham standards supposedly)

 

[ronparise]

They are trying but no luck for many of them.

Thats the point of the original post in this thread, isnt it? Without an efficient resale market, the industry is broken. No??

 

[WinniWoman]

Thats the point of the original post in this thread, isnt it? Without an efficient resale market, the industry is broken. No??

Yes, of course!

 

[vacationhopeful]

Mary Ann .... "tilting at windmills"?

Wyndham is NOT YET the management agent for Smuggs? Wyndham is the management agent .. Wyndham is just NOT GOING to PAY YOU for your ownership. Wyndham wants YOU to pay them for taking back your ownership. Most owners would have NO PROBLEM giving back their 'off season' (float) week. And if Wyndham can not offer PRIME weeks to their members for booking, why would they take back ANY off season weeks? And remember, Wyndham will sell MORE units/points/sampler packages or get a GREAT rental value ... for Prime Weeks. And as for 'resort activities', I suspect MANY CURRENT activities will be discontinued/cut back PLUS those offered then will be a CASH PAYMENT required.

Those days of a "Dirty Dancing"-type resort are gone .. except for a free DVD showing of it during your stay.

PS If you are around, I will take you to Shawnee (I have fixed week day use priviledges). The staff is nice, resort has some decent weekly offerings, has nearby 4 season options (20 miles range), etc. But many activities of yesteryear are GONE ... I hope they keep the FREE WINE with bingo a bit longer.

 

[WinniWoman]

Mary Ann .... "tilting at windmills"?

Wyndham is NOT YET the management agent for Smuggs? Wyndham is the management agent .. Wyndham is just NOT GOING to PAY YOU for your ownership. Wyndham wants YOU to pay them for taking back your ownership. Most owners would have NO PROBLEM giving back their 'off season' (float) week. And if Wyndham can not offer PRIME weeks to their members for booking, why would they take back ANY off season weeks? And remember, Wyndham will sell MORE units/points/sampler packages or get a GREAT rental value ... for Prime Weeks. And as for 'resort activities', I suspect MANY CURRENT activities will be discontinued/cut back PLUS those offered then will be a CASH PAYMENT required.

Those days of a "Dirty Dancing"-type resort are gone .. except for a free DVD showing of it during your stay.

PS If you are around, I will take you to Shawnee (I have fixed week day use priviledges). The staff is nice, resort has some decent weekly offerings, has nearby 4 season options (20 miles range), etc. But many activities of yesteryear are GONE ... I hope they keep the FREE WINE with bingo a bit longer.

Linda- Wyndham is not yet management. They are the sales agent but they do own some buildings and certainly they are controlling the direction of the resort.

You can't give back your off season float week at Smuggs because it is attached to the Prime week as one ownership.You have to give back both or you are stuck with both. I was going to do the Farewell Program but I figured we like Vermont, we have a condo and a pool, we are 2 hours from our other resort where our week falls right after the Smuggs week. Why give Wyndham my weeks? The heck with it- I will keep it a bit longer.

I actually like the off season float weeks, especially at this stage of our lives. Once in a rare while we exchange them and go elsewhere.

And- even though I have paid benefits I haven't used them in many years since we have no grandchildren and have done most of the other things anyway, some of which we can't do now and some we just don't want to do. We don't feel we are missing out on anything important in that regard.

And- we actually like the concept of the fee based activities, of which they have many. We do some of them- but most are very expensive. So- guess what? We do the same things just on our own without guides or what not.

When we move one day and are closer, I think we might be able to get day use at our other resort. Not sure if it is just for Innseason points owners or all Pollard Brook owners.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

Bottom line is that the old fixed week timeshare model doesn't work any more. (especially at the seasonal resorts) So enter the big points systems to the rescue. They will either pick up and integrate the resorts like yours into their systems, or the fixed week resorts will close their doors and be buried with their original owners.

********

Timeshare Points Systems : are a crypto - currency model that works .
Timeshare Fixed Weeks : are Cash Money

Ron, I agree with you from a big picture standpoint .
BUT - we all know “ cash money “is unlikely to completely disappear in our (remaining) lifetime.

 

[VacationForever]

Yes- I get what you are saying in general. I guess what I was talking about is management. Smuggs is still technically a privately owned resort. Wyndham is right now just sales. Tricky and deceiving, I know. But what you don't realize is at Smuggs things don't totally work the way you explained it about the off season weeks. For the most part-everyone who bought a fixed prime week HAD TO buy a floater- it is ATTACHED to the prime week- So we are not subsidizing anyone but ourselves.

And- in many situations, a timeshare is handed down to an adult child that may want it. At that point, that child might convert to points or whatever.

In the case of Smuggs, many people do not want to convert so there are a lot of hold outs. There are still more RCI points and more deeded fixed week owners than Wyndham owners there. And, many people own in older buildings that Wyndham does not want it seems. There are a number of those people in those old buildings who want to sell or give away their timeshares and can't. Then you throw in the fact that they do not have use of a pool without purchasing a benefits package and it gets even more complicated. (yes- that's right, smuggs will not let anyone owning or staying in those village buildings use the main pool without buying a whole package. Tell me how nice that is!). If you want to say the owners don't appreciate the resort- well maybe that is somewhat the case NOW- NOW that over the past few years we see what is going on. Smuggs owners are very passionate about their ownerships and essentially love the resort. That is why many come back year after year, and so do their grown children with their children. But- we also know when we are not being treated right, too and we remain vigilant.

"... many people own in older buildings that Wyndham does not want it seems." When Wyndham came in, did they not manage all of the buildings? Are benefits applicable to only certain newer buildings, and old building owners got to pay more to buy in? If Wyndham manages them all, I suspect the older buildings will get renovated soon. Would it then make those units more attractive for deedbacks?

 

[WinniWoman]

Fixed weeks are like hard assets- like gold bullion. They are simple and easy and tangible. What you see and own is what you get.

Points are volatile almost like Bit Coin and to me personally are too much work. Like a box of chocolates- you never know what you are gonna get.

 

[WinniWoman]

Np

"... many people own in older buildings that Wyndham does not want it seems." When Wyndham came in, did they not manage all of the buildings? Are benefits applicable to only certain newer buildings, and old building owners got to pay more to buy in? If Wyndham manages them all, I suspect the older buildings will get renovated soon. Would it then make those units more attractive for deedbacks?

No! What I am trying to tell you is they do not manage the resort. It is privately owned by Bill Strickler. His daughter, Lisa Howe is the President.

Amy owner anywhere can buy benefits.

 

[VacationForever]

Np


No! What I am trying to tell you is they do not manage the resort. It is privately owned by Bill Strickler. His daughter, Lisa Howe is the President.

Amy owner anywhere can buy benefits.

Ur... The resort is privately owned by owners and run by Bill Strickler's family or is it privately owned by Bill Strickler's family and one buys benefits to use it, benefits in being able to use it like a timeshare? If it is the latter, then if you don't want to use it, you should be able to do that by stopping payment of the benefits. I am not clear what benefits entail.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

Fixed weeks are like hard assets- like gold bullion. They are simple and easy and tangible. What you see and own is what you get.

Points are volatile almost like Bit Coin and to me personally are too much work. Like a box of chocolates- you never know what you are gonna get.

Mary Ann - I agree
BUT -
I wish I had listened to my 29 year old son / and bought Bit Coin last spring .
I think I would be up 70 K . I thought it was too much like (the sucker bet) $ 100 Trifecta at the race track .( except it was the 2017 winner / PS -he did not buy it either )

******

Timeshare points systems :seem to work really well for owners who dedicate the time to understanding them .
Points also seem to work really well in the current TS developer sales model.

In both cases , “the points “are a crypto - currency and sometimes have an arbitrage possibility for owners.
ie - buy resale HGVC points at their Las Vegas resort with the lowest MF and use somewhere else . Buy a resale Wyndham Canterbury SF ( high point to MF ratio )and use at Fairfield Glade ( low points usage cost / more nights per point )

From reading TUG - I have learned many things .

 

[WinniWoman]

Ur... The resort is privately owned by owners and run by Bill Strickler's family or is it privately owned by Bill Strickler's family and one buys benefits to use it, benefits in being able to use it like a timeshare? If it is the latter, then if you don't want to use it, you should be able to do that by stopping payment of the benefits. I am not clear what benefits entail.

The resort is technically owned by the Strickler family, but we are called owners to make us think we are! LOL!

But, seriously, they make the rules as management.

In terms of "benefits".....

You own the deeded week/unit or RCI points at Smuggs, but that only gives you use of the condo. If you want to use any of the resort "public" pools, go on guided hikes, use the Fun Zone, etc,. you must buy a benefits package to do so. You can buy a 10 or 20 year package and you can buy passes for within that package up to the number of people your unit sleeps. You also must buy RFID cards at $5.00 per person plus tax also, which are re loadable each year you come back to Smuggs and allows you to access the faculties, which you can only enter through electronic gates. (ugh)

Now, the newer (though not THAT new anymore)so called "deluxe" buildings have their own private pools and clubhouses with small gyms in some so if you own in one of those you always get use of those things as part of your ownership without having to purchase a benefits package. That is what I have. (My 20 year benefits package is about to expire in a couple of years anyway, but as I said, I am not renewing it).

If you are a Wyndham owner you get free usage of everything. You do have to purchase the re loadable RFID cards also. Wyndham owners are charged a flat fee for these cards when they check in based on the unit size. (ex: $50 plus tax for a 4 bedroom presidential unit).

So you see, the people who own in the older buildings own their weeks/points/units, but they do not have any access even to a pool without purchasing a whole benefit package.

Each building does have its' own HOA that works with Smuggs management. Wyndham owns a few buildings (Presidentials and Deluxe)and some units in other deluxe buildings.

 

[VacationForever]

The resort is technically owned by the Strickler family, but we are called owners to make us think we are! LOL!

But, seriously, they make the rules as management.

In terms of "benefits".....

You own the deeded week/unit or RCI points at Smuggs, but that only gives you use of the condo. If you want to use any of the resort "public" pools, go on guided hikes, use the Fun Zone, etc,. you must buy a benefits package to do so. You can buy a 10 or 20 year package and you can buy passes for within that package up to the number of people your unit sleeps. You also must buy RFID cards at $5.00 per person plus tax also, which are re loadable each year you come back to Smuggs and allows you to access the faculties, which you can only enter through electronic gates. (ugh)

Now, the newer (though not THAT new anymore)so called "deluxe" buildings have their own private pools and clubhouses with small gyms in some so if you own in one of those you always get use of those things as part of your ownership without having to purchase a benefits package. That is what I have. (My 20 year benefits package is about to expire in a couple of years anyway, but as I said, I am not renewing it).

If you are a Wyndham owner you get free usage of everything. You do have to purchase the re loadable RFID cards also. Wyndham owners are charged a flat fee for these cards when they check in based on the unit size. (ex: $50 plus tax for a 4 bedroom presidential unit).

So you see, the people who own in the older buildings own their weeks/points/units, but they do not have any access even to a pool without purchasing a while benefit package.

Each building does have its' own HOA that works with Smuggs management. Wyndham owns a few buildings (Presidentials and Deluxe)and some units in other deluxe buildings.

Definitely a complicated situation.

 

[WinniWoman]

Definitely a complicated situation.

An understatement for sure! It is so convoluted and owners on the Smuggs Owners Facebook page express constant confusion about the various scenarios of benefits usage and various ownerships at the resort, the role of Wyndham, the role of the HOA's, and the role of management.

But through it all, most still love going there.