TPU Arbitrage - Buy it or Avoid it?

[rickandcindy23]

I love RCI and the changes, which brought my trading power back to pre-5/31/2009 levels. I am so pleased and will not complain. So I got back what I lost.

I griped and griped and couldn't convince RCI that they downgraded our timeshares more than one step. That was the insistence by the guides and Carole Ablett.

"We created more trading power levels, and your weeks didn't drop in power much."

"Yeah, they did," was my answer back.

And I am now marked on RCI's call logs as a pain in the derriere, too. I call and they transfer me away. Well, now they give me a separate number for Wyndham owners, when I am an RCI POINTS OWNER, too. How can Wyndham help with RCI Points? It's ridiculous.

But they fixed my trading power, and I put up with the call transfers and am sweet as can be. "Hi, they transferred this call to you, but could you be a dear and please transfer me back to RCI Points? I am sure it was a mistake..."

I love to make these calls with Rick sitting in the room with me, because it is great entertainment for him. Maybe I will no longer be tagged as a complainer someday. :rofl:

 

[Carolinian]

Hardly.

Bootleg, who was an RCI employee who put his customers interest first, even when they were inconsistent with his employer's interest, was extremely well liked here. Other than the most ardent RCI apologists, I think most of us on these boards would love to have him, or someone like him back. The same goes for Anon over at TimeshareTalk.

And of course, someone who only explained the ''benefits'' of corporate policy would be little more than a corporate shill. One who is forthright enough to tell the whole story - good and bad - like Bootleg, is what we need.

If you go to work for RCI and post here, make sure you are wearing a bullet proof vest.

For some TUGGERS having an RCI employee explain the benefits of the new weeks system would be like having a theologian explain Christianity to members of the Taliban. Courteous discourse would not follow.

 

[Carolinian]

Torches don't heat evenly (this not being a perfect world) - the "theory" is still standing. RCI is doing it for the $179's.

Yes but they don't cool as well as heating! And that is what RCI is doing. Your theory runs smack into a problem with facts.

 

[Carolinian]

Just because we weren't around doesn't mean we don't know anything about it. I wasn't around for the Civil War, but I think I have a pretty good understanding of it.

Curious. Someone from a southern state using the yankee name for the war, as opposed to the southern name, War Between the States (of for the more hard core southerner, War for Southern Independence or War of Northern Aggression, and of course the more hard core yankess call it the War of the Rebellion).

 

[Carolinian]

I rarely read Madge's board, as it became clear early that answers on policy questions were pure corporate spin. I think some Tuggers trying to get some straight answers got frustrated with that, but once I saw it was mostly spin on some of those things, I did not bother.

As far as I am concerned, a truly candid RCI employee who cared about customers more than he did about corporate policy, like Bootleg, was more of an asset to TUG than Madge ever was. I wish we had a read / search archive of Bootleg's posts here. They would be far more valuable than Madge's.

I was around back then - had a different user name which I couldn't find when I came back. I took some time off here because it was so time consuming, and timeshare is not my life just the way I vacation. I am starting to think it is sucking up way too much of my time again!

I did like when Madge was on... Do you know why she left? Maybe we could get another RCI rep on here to explain things (laughs to himself)

 

[Carolinian]

The real problem is that they have destroyed the general stability that used to exist in RCI exchanging, and are constantly moving the goalposts. That instability is what is leading to frustration among members. Of course those who benefit from such changes, and some will win when others lose, fall in love with their new found windfall and are very vocal about it. Depending on what RCI exchanging will be like tomorrow is like building on quicksand.

I love RCI and the changes, which brought my trading power back to pre-5/31/2009 levels. I am so pleased and will not complain. So I got back what I lost.

I griped and griped and couldn't convince RCI that they downgraded our timeshares more than one step. That was the insistence by the guides and Carole Ablett.

"We created more trading power levels, and your weeks didn't drop in power much."

"Yeah, they did," was my answer back.

And I am now marked on RCI's call logs as a pain in the derriere, too. I call and they transfer me away. Well, now they give me a separate number for Wyndham owners, when I am an RCI POINTS OWNER, too. How can Wyndham help with RCI Points? It's ridiculous.

But they fixed my trading power, and I put up with the call transfers and am sweet as can be. "Hi, they transferred this call to you, but could you be a dear and please transfer me back to RCI Points? I am sure it was a mistake..."

I love to make these calls with Rick sitting in the room with me, because it is great entertainment for him. Maybe I will no longer be tagged as a complainer someday. :rofl:

 

[ampaholic]

Torches don't heat evenly (this not being a perfect world) - the "theory" is still standing. RCI is doing it for the $179's.

yep, that's what I said. :ignore: and I'll stipulate - it's my opinion (theory)

Yes but they don't cool as well as heating! And that is what RCI is doing. Your theory runs smack into a problem with facts.

Too bad you fail to provide facts - plenty of opinion but few (if any) examples.

 

[ampaholic]

Oh, and while I'm here C. (can I call you C?) what exactly is your theory?

In 25 words or less, please.

 

[Carolinian]

yep, that's what I said. :ignore: and I'll stipulate - it's my opinion (theory)



Too bad you fail to provide facts - plenty of opinion but few (if any) examples.

The facts have been reported often enough that it is simply not necessary to regurgitate them every time.

Some weeks RCI offers for a lot less than what they give for deposits. For other weeks RCI demands a lot more that what they give for deposits.

This is a two way deal, not a one way downward deal like you postulate, and that blows your theory out of the water as much as a broadside from Lord Nelson's entire fleet at Trafalgar would have.

 

[Carolinian]

Oh, and while I'm here C. (can I call you C?) what exactly is your theory?

In 25 words or less, please.

The executive summary? RCI's numbers formula has as much if not more to do with diverting exchange deposits to rentals and trying to cover for that, as it does with actual exchanges. That is where most of the distortions arise, although insider relationships are also part of it.

 

[tombo]

I rarely read Madge's board, as it became clear early that answers on policy questions were pure corporate spin. I think some Tuggers trying to get some straight answers got frustrated with that, but once I saw it was mostly spin on some of those things, I did not bother.

As far as I am concerned, a truly candid RCI employee who cared about customers more than he did about corporate policy, like Bootleg, was more of an asset to TUG than Madge ever was. I wish we had a read / search archive of Bootleg's posts here. They would be far more valuable than Madge's.

You don't actually want an RCI employee explaining the program and answering questions. You want a disgruntled RCI employee with an axe to grind to say bad things about RCI so you can have an ally against RCI.

A real employee paid by ANY company to respond on a web site and to do PR for the company will answer questions using the corporate guidelines. You would denounce that as corporate spin, lies, half truths. Any LOYAL dedicated employee will not undermine their company by giving away corporate secrets online. You would denounce them as corporate mouthpieces. Any customer who would rather please a bunch of anonymous on line possible customers over the employer who pays his salary is not someone who any company would pay to answer questions online.

What you want is a Judas. What you want is the worst kind of employee. One who is either mad at corporate and spreading lies and half truths to make the company look bad out of vengeance, or simply one who is dsloyal to the people wo hired them and the people who pay them. Perhaps Buckshot is no longer with RCI because they found out what a backstabbing low life piece of dung employee he was and they fired him.

If an RCI employee was to answer questions using the corporate line (which is what they are paid to do) then you would discount their answer's validity and refuse to accept any facts that they give. You would constantly argue that their facts are wrong even though you yourself have almost zero facts and RCI has them all. It would be like we are responded to whenever we make a positive statement about RCI. We are wrong. They used to do it differently. We don't know the history, etc, etc, etc.

On the other hand a low life employee who goes to work every day accepting RCI's money and trying to act look a good employee while undermining the company online after they get off work only tells the gospel according to you. Give me a break. Could Buckshot have had an agenda? He was not loyal, that is a given. He might have been written up and about to be fired. He might have been fired long before he quit posting on TUG. He MIGHT have only worked for RCI for a short time at a low level position learning little but acting like he knew a lot. All you know for sure is that IF Buckshot did work for RCI, he was the worst kind of employee. He was one who undermined the company that paid him. That is not loyalty to customers. Loyalty to customers is giving great customer service within corporate guidelines. If he didn't like RCI's practices he should quit and then post why he quit. Don't take the check while undermining and bad mouthing your employer. It shows a huge character flaw. Buckshot was a cancer within RCI that needed to be removed. Any facts and figures Buckshot gave on TUG have to be considered suspect and definetelly not absolute facts.

If I have to put my faith, trust, and friendship in either a person who works hard for their employer and is loyal to them, or one who undermines their employer while accepting a paycheck every week, I will choose the LOYAL person every time. Madge was a paid employee that liked her company and tried to help RCI members while being loyal to the employer she worked for. Buckshot took the paycheck and paid RCI back with disloyalty. I would trust Madge before Buckshot every single time. You would rather trust Buckshot because he said a lot of bad things about RCI that you hope are true. JMHO.

 

[DavidnJudy]

Is there a reason why you called Bootleg Buckshot. Bootleg is bad enough already makes him sound like a traitor.

For me honestly, I just like more information. Carolinian's info, Bootleg's info, Madge's info, I posted something about a free combine the other day. Give me all the info.

Keep your oppinions to yourself.

Your theories.

Your conjectures.

There probably is a lot of truth in those theories, like RCI is in with developers and rents out their inventory. OK. Both of which suck. OK. Both of which are postulations, maybe proven by some strong evidence. And I like the evidence, based on the evidence I can come up with my own conclusions. And I do believe RCI is in bed with some developers and rents out units. OK.

But like said before, what I like now is being able to see the value of my deposit, instead of wishing that my weak SA trader will pick up a beach week in MB, I know now that is impossible based on the points unless I combine.

I like the fact you can combine. I like the fact that if you have a lot of points you can get several trades. It helps you work the system.

Some people are not going to put the time in to work the system. but I will. That's where I come out ahead.

So thanks RCI for revealing the points for deposit, and showing the exchange points for everything (ecept that which is picked up by an on-going search).

 

[tombo]

Is there a reason why you called Bootleg Buckshot. Bootleg is bad enough already makes him sound like a traitor.

I figured I would use an alias since I was going to equate them to dung.

 

[Ridewithme38]

You don't actually want an RCI employee explaining the program and answering questions. You want a disgruntled RCI employee with an axe to grind to say bad things about RCI so you can have an ally against RCI.

Thats not what i want...i want a member here, who also happens to work for RCI to openly talk about what they know personally....If RCI is paying them to post here, they are just here to spread propoganda and half-truths...the company line so to speak...Not what they KNOW, but what they are being told to say....The WORST thing that can happen is RCI pays someone to post

A Disgruntled employee with an axe to grind is just as bad as a paid lacky...they will also tell half-truths and propoganda, but this will be to hurt the company instead of help it, their alliance is only with themselves...thats just no good

Remember alliances...if someone is a member here under their own SN and using their own time to post..their alliances are with TUG and the members here...they may LOVE RCI and everything about it, or be completely neutral about it...but they're not going to lie because they're a member just like you and I first and an RCI employee second

 

[bnoble]

The WORST thing that can happen is RCI pays someone to post

I suspect that it was precisely this attitude that in part led to Madge's departure. And, as I mentioned above, that is a real shame, because Madge was very helpful in straightening out problems that TUGgers would sometimes encounter.

 

[Laurie]

On the other hand a low life employee who goes to work every day accepting RCI's money and trying to act look a good employee while undermining the company online after they get off work only tells the gospel according to you. Give me a break. Could Buckshot have had an agenda? He was not loyal, that is a given. He might have been written up and about to be fired. He might have been fired long before he quit posting on TUG. He MIGHT have only worked for RCI for a short time at a low level position learning little but acting like he knew a lot. All you know for sure is that IF Buckshot did work for RCI, he was the worst kind of employee. He was one who undermined the company that paid him. That is not loyalty to customers. Loyalty to customers is giving great customer service within corporate guidelines. If he didn't like RCI's practices he should quit and then post why he quit. Don't take the check while undermining and bad mouthing your employer. It shows a huge character flaw. Buckshot was a cancer within RCI that needed to be removed. Any facts and figures Buckshot gave on TUG have to be considered suspect and definetelly not absolute facts.

IMO Bootleg simply gave information that was helpful to members, and illuminated what was true and what was false. Sometimes he posted to dispel false negative assumptions about RCI. He seemed fair and balanced to me, and would have been (in fact, was) more of an asset to RCI than a lot of those know-nothing guides, who dish out false information all the time.

Customer service is promoted by establishing trust and goodwill between company and custome; it's undermined by parroting a false party-line.

It was refreshing to get a straightforward, "non-partisan" window into RCI, so we could understand better what was and wasn't happening, what was and wasn't true or false. That's all.

 

[ampaholic]

Some weeks RCI offers for a lot less than what they give for deposits. For other weeks RCI demands a lot more that what they give for deposits.

This is a two way deal, not a one way downward deal like you postulate, and that blows your theory out of the water as much as a broadside from Lord Nelson's entire fleet at Trafalgar would have.

You do realize Lord Nelson was killed at Trafalgar?

 

[ampaholic]

The executive summary? RCI's numbers formula has as much if not more to do with diverting exchange deposits to rentals and trying to cover for that, as it does with actual exchanges. That is where most of the distortions arise, although insider relationships are also part of it.

I thank you for the concise version.

My theory can fit pretty well with yours within a "Grand Unification Theory" IMHO

Here is a draft "Grand Unification Theory" - feel free to edit C. =

RCI manipulates (creates/destroys) disparities in the in and out of TPU's to increase RCI's bottom line.

 

[bnoble]

RCI's numbers formula has as much if not more to do with diverting exchange deposits to rentals and trying to cover for that, as it does with actual exchanges.

The only problem with this theory is that if you ask RCI, directly, whether or not they rent out valuable deposited weeks, they will tell you: "Absolutely. Yes." What's more, the settlement gives them free rein to do so, with no apologies required. Why cover for something you openly admit and are legally entitled to?

RCI has a well-earned reputation for double-dealing. But, now, they are skimming right out in the light of day. Once everyone admits that Something Is Going On, there's no need to waste the effort on maintaining a conspiracy to hide it.

 

[ampaholic]

The only problem with this theory is that if you ask RCI, directly, whether or not they rent out valuable deposited weeks, they will tell you: "Absolutely. Yes." What's more, the settlement gives them free rein to do so, with no apologies required. Why cover for something you openly admit and are legally entitled to?

RCI has a well-earned reputation for double-dealing. But, now, they are skimming right out in the light of day. Once everyone admits that Something Is Going On, there's no need to waste the effort on maintaining a conspiracy to hide it.

Actually my GUT (Grand Unification Theory) is:

RCI manipulates (creates/destroys) disparities in the in and out of TPU's to increase RCI's bottom line.

It doesn't mention anything about "hidden/open" as that is a sub-set. I think you are correct this whole line of conversation about RCI is begging the question = Within legal constraints, why wouldn't RCI manipulate deposits and withdrawals to increase their bottom line?

 

[Carolinian]

Tombo, as always you shoot from the hip, not caring if you know what you are talking about or not.

Bootleg was loyal to RCI but he was loyal more to RCI's customers. That usually did not present a conflict for him. Most of his involvement here and on other boards helped members improve their relationship with RCI by being able to better understand and use the system. His discussions of the overbuilt areas was not in any anti-RCI context, just an explanation of the way things were. A number of Tuggers would get him when they called RCI as they had put enough info online that he would recognize who they were and comment ''It might rain, do you have your boots on?'' and then the Tugger would know they had Bootleg.

The only time Bootleg really went against the company line was on the rentals. He first posted that he did not think RCI was renting exchange deposits. When JLB put up a post pointing out that Anon at TimeshareTalk, also an RCI employee, was taking a different position than Bootleg, Bootleg sent him a private email saying that as a result of more investigation on his computer at work, he had found evidence that changed his mind, and he concurred that RCI was renting exchange deposits. He gave the Tugger JLB authority to repost that email online, which he did. Bootleg subsequently came online himself and gave more detail as to what he found. As he was not a disgruntled employee what he found about his company seemed quite painful to him, but he always put his customers first, even ahead of the company.

Actually, back when I was flying Delta, there was a guy just like Bootleg on the Delta board at Flyertalk whose user name was Unofficial Delta Helper and who also gave a lot of insight on how best to use the system, making members happy. He, too, had his unpleasant moment when he had some soul searching over the Rob Borden changes at Delta, and he ultimately posted online on that for the customers position and against management's anti-customer position. He was not a disgruntled employee but one who put his customers first.

Another thing I have learned at Flyertalk is that sometimes the seemingly unofficial cheerleaders for management have more ties to management than one would have thought. For example, Delta biggest defender, by far, on any issue over there is Mooper, and Mooper finally outed himself as a major Delta shareholder. A fellow Delta skeptic over there as well as former NW elite also pointed out in an email that certain other Delta apologists on that board were spouses of Delta executives.

And of course, some companies these days pay bloggers to post online masquerading as customers.

You don't actually want an RCI employee explaining the program and answering questions. You want a disgruntled RCI employee with an axe to grind to say bad things about RCI so you can have an ally against RCI.

A real employee paid by ANY company to respond on a web site and to do PR for the company will answer questions using the corporate guidelines. You would denounce that as corporate spin, lies, half truths. Any LOYAL dedicated employee will not undermine their company by giving away corporate secrets online. You would denounce them as corporate mouthpieces. Any customer who would rather please a bunch of anonymous on line possible customers over the employer who pays his salary is not someone who any company would pay to answer questions online.

What you want is a Judas. What you want is the worst kind of employee. One who is either mad at corporate and spreading lies and half truths to make the company look bad out of vengeance, or simply one who is dsloyal to the people wo hired them and the people who pay them. Perhaps Buckshot is no longer with RCI because they found out what a backstabbing low life piece of dung employee he was and they fired him.

If an RCI employee was to answer questions using the corporate line (which is what they are paid to do) then you would discount their answer's validity and refuse to accept any facts that they give. You would constantly argue that their facts are wrong even though you yourself have almost zero facts and RCI has them all. It would be like we are responded to whenever we make a positive statement about RCI. We are wrong. They used to do it differently. We don't know the history, etc, etc, etc.

On the other hand a low life employee who goes to work every day accepting RCI's money and trying to act look a good employee while undermining the company online after they get off work only tells the gospel according to you. Give me a break. Could Buckshot have had an agenda? He was not loyal, that is a given. He might have been written up and about to be fired. He might have been fired long before he quit posting on TUG. He MIGHT have only worked for RCI for a short time at a low level position learning little but acting like he knew a lot. All you know for sure is that IF Buckshot did work for RCI, he was the worst kind of employee. He was one who undermined the company that paid him. That is not loyalty to customers. Loyalty to customers is giving great customer service within corporate guidelines. If he didn't like RCI's practices he should quit and then post why he quit. Don't take the check while undermining and bad mouthing your employer. It shows a huge character flaw. Buckshot was a cancer within RCI that needed to be removed. Any facts and figures Buckshot gave on TUG have to be considered suspect and definetelly not absolute facts.

If I have to put my faith, trust, and friendship in either a person who works hard for their employer and is loyal to them, or one who undermines their employer while accepting a paycheck every week, I will choose the LOYAL person every time. Madge was a paid employee that liked her company and tried to help RCI members while being loyal to the employer she worked for. Buckshot took the paycheck and paid RCI back with disloyalty. I would trust Madge before Buckshot every single time. You would rather trust Buckshot because he said a lot of bad things about RCI that you hope are true. JMHO.

 

[Ridewithme38]

i'm still hoping for a thread on Cheapest MF per TPU....or at the very least...Most TPU's deposit/Least TPU's to Exchange back in Resorts

 

[ampaholic]

i'm still hoping for a thread on Cheapest MF per TPU....or at the very least...Most TPU's deposit/Least TPU's to Exchange back in Resorts

Is that sort of like asking which quicksand is best? :rofl:

 

[tombo]

Tombo, as always you shoot from the hip, not caring if you know what you are talking about or not.

Bootleg was loyal to RCI but he was loyal more to RCI's customers. That usually did not present a conflict for him. .

He owed no loyalty to strangers he talked to on line on the TUG forum. He did owe loyalty to the company that employed him, the person(s) that hired and trusted him, and the co-workers who discussed things at work that they never expected him to go and post on line.

When you divulge private company memos, discuss insider knowledge of operations, talk about proposed changes, and when you divulge other information that is intended ONLY for company use,then yes he and and the company had conflict. He did not get permission from RCI to post that information, he just did it because he wanted to. In fact he used an ALIAS to protect his job while posting information on line that RCI HIS EMPLOYER did not want given out. It was and is a firing offense with most any company, and he knew it which is why he used a fake moniker.

Instead of his employer, let's instead make good old Bootleg your friend you talk to every day and someone who you trust with private details of your personal life. Would you still consider him loyal to you after he leaked out things you told him in confidence on your facebook page using an alias? I think you would feel betrayed and hurt, but I can't imagine you calling him loyal.

I call them like I see them. It is not shooting from the hip. It is how I view loyalty. I would not post the inner workings of my company, confidential memos, or pcoming changes on the web without permission. It could hurt the company I work for financially which would hurt many co-workers and their families. It is a sorry thing to do. I also would not disclose things I was told in confidence by friends or co-workers to others because I know that they don't want me to. I would NOT consider an employee, a co-worker, or a friend LOYAL who posted things discussed in private on open forums without asking me if it was OK to do so first. I would especially not consider that person loyal if they posted using an alias because they knew what they were posting was things that they should not have posted. JMHO.

 

[heathpack]

Curious. Someone from a southern state using the yankee name for the war, as opposed to the southern name, War Between the States (of for the more hard core southerner, War for Southern Independence or War of Northern Aggression, and of course the more hard core yankess call it the War of the Rebellion).

This is an absurd comment, makes it's poster appear very petty.