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True Value of an Exchange

MidlifeTraveler

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For quite a while any SA week traded very well in RCI. I got many Manhattan Clubs with SA blue weeks. The power of many SA weeks seems to have diminished. Visit the SA forum.

Yes - I did check the SA forum and will continue to monitor. When I bought OLCC there were many who tried to convince me to buy a cheap SA unit and trade into OLCC each year. My instinct told me the balloon would eventually burst on that and I'd be REALLY stuck. I'm glad I didn't do it then - and I'll have to continue to watch those boards. Plus, I wasn't comfortable buying something without actually seeing it first.

:( Looks like I'm in for another 2 years research!
 
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Spence

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MidlifeTraveler said:
For quite a while any SA week traded very well in RCI. I got many Manhattan Clubs with SA blue weeks. The power of many SA weeks seems to have diminished. Visit the SA forum.

Yes - I did check the SA forum and will continue to monitor. When I bought OLCC there were many who tried to convince me to buy a cheap SA unit and trade into OLCC each year. My instinct told me the balloon would eventually burst on that and I'd be REALLY stuck. I'm glad I didn't do it then - and I'll have to continue to watch those boards. Plus, I wasn't comfortable buying something without actually seeing it first. :( Looks like I'm in for another 2 years research!
Though diminished, any of my Red/White/Blue SA weeks would have traded better than your OLCC. I've bought more timeshares than you can shake a stick at, all sight unseen. You don't need to see it if you've researched it properly.
 

sfwilshire

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And even if you could figure out the magic trading power of a week, there is no guarantee that it won't change over time.

The key IMO is to buy in a much desired area that is not overbuilt. Buy a season that will be in high demand. Buy a decent resort with good management. Then hope for the best.

I just try to buy at a price where I can get my money back if the resort doesn't work out for me as I'd planned.

Sheila
 

Carolinian

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Indeed trading power does change because supply and demand are dynamic.
That is one of the advantages of a system of flexible trading power values like RCI Weeks over a system of frozen numbers like RCI Points.



sfwilshire said:
And even if you could figure out the magic trading power of a week, there is no guarantee that it won't change over time.

The key IMO is to buy in a much desired area that is not overbuilt. Buy a season that will be in high demand. Buy a decent resort with good management. Then hope for the best.

I just try to buy at a price where I can get my money back if the resort doesn't work out for me as I'd planned.

Sheila
 

Carolinian

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When I visited South Africa, I did not run into another American, but there were LOTS of European tourists.


MidlifeTraveler said:
Okay - I've learned a lot for you all anf Thank You.

My next question is - how do you determine the trading power of a week (before purchse :) ) if it's simply "red" and "red" is not the same everywhere.

Also, I've heard that the South Africa units bring a good trade - but why? THAT MANY people want to go to South Africa?!
 

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The worst combination is a system that publishes the result but uses a secret system to come up with that number. That is a recipe for insider dealing and cooking the books. The key to whether any published number system is honest or not is whether they also publish the formula for establishing the numbers and the data to allow anyone to check behind them.
Without that, the chances of a dishonest system are far greater than with a system that publishes neither.




Roger said:
The bottom line is that trading power is kept secret so that developers can disguise the worth of their units. (You've learned about that yourself the hard way. Sorry about that.)

As far as I am concerned, it is no accident that Hyatt, Disney, and Hilton, who have reputations at stake, don't want to have their brand names tainted by this slimey aspect of timesharing (actually, they refuse to even use the name "timesharing" and choose to offer "vacation ownership" plans). They offer points. This tells prospective owners how much a unit is worth compared to other units within their systems and what an owner can expect in return for the purchase of one of their units.

Your options are to watch TUG for a while, learn the ins and outs of what has value, what does not, and then use this knowledge to get a leg up on other timeshare purchasers (let them eat cake -- it is their fault for not having done their homework) or join one of the points programs.

If you chose the former, be careful. Trading power turns out to be trickier than first meets the eye. One pitfall is that according to the laws of "supply and demand" if you happen to deposit your unit at the same time many other people deposit (perhaps the developer deposited a group of unsold units, or, maintenence fees were due leading to many owners to deposit at about the same time), the value of your deposit drops due to nothing that you did.

Obviously, my own preference is for a system that treats all buyers equally (and does not give advantages to those who have quasi-inside information -- spent a couple months studying the ins and outs of trading power on a board like this). Whatever you decide, good luck.
 

timeos2

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Carolinian said:
Indeed trading power does change because supply and demand are dynamic.
That is one of the advantages of a system of flexible trading power values like RCI Weeks over a system of frozen numbers like RCI Points.

And the advantage to an owner/buyer is....... ???
 

Carolinian

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timeos2 said:
And the advantage to an owner/buyer is....... ???

Accurate exchange power.

Heck, a rigid system like RCI Points cannot even adjust when Thanksgiving falls on week 46. In those years, they still give the holiday bump to week 47 even when it isn't Thanksgiving!
 

"Roger"

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Carolinian said:
The worst combination is a system that publishes the result but uses a secret system to come up with that number. That is a recipe for insider dealing and cooking the books. The key to whether any published number system is honest or not is whether they also publish the formula for establishing the numbers and the data to allow anyone to check behind them.
Without that, the chances of a dishonest system are far greater than with a system that publishes neither.
All of this has been played out before. If you read this thread (start toward about post 54 - interesting reading), you will find Carolinian making the same claim.

Supply and Demand?

In the end, neither he nor anyone knows how "supply and demand" is determined within Walmart (does that make Walmart the "worst combination" - published prices but a secret system by which Walmart determines those prices) nor... within the Weeks system. (He offered a simple formula which he claimed was how supply and demand could be used by RCI, but one which upon examination either is not what Weeks uses or is TOTALLY prejudicial against newer, larger resorts.)

I am afraid it is much easier to say that the trading power of Weeks is determined by "supply and demand" than it is to figure out what that really means. I am sure that every exchange company has its own "secret" way by which they determine what they consider to be supply and demand. End of story.
 
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PerryM

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Supply and Demand have the opposite affect!

Supply and demand; a catchy phrase but what exactly are we talking about. Lets take the same exact resort, like Park Plaza, which is II, RCI, and RCI Points affiliated (So what’s in your resorts exchange wallet?)

Park Plaza Week:
As an owner at Park Plaza I can book my Prime week any week of the year – I always book week 51 or 52 and we either use the rooms or rent them out for 4 times MF. I can “roll forward” my week to next year or “borrow” a week from next year this year. I can cancel my reservation up to 30 days before check-in and “roll forward” to next year. Why doesn’t your resort do this?

Anyway, my trading power is tremendous – 4 times MF will easily pay for a week in Maui with a $600 MF. I have the ultimate in exchange – heck, I saw a great plasma TV at Sam’s today that we might buy with the rent money.

II Week:
If I want to exchange in II Park Plaza will deposit a generic ski week for me. Not the Trading Power (TP) of cash but I should have some good TP.

RCI Week:
Ditto that of II.

Notice that I have no idea in the world what the TP is – I can only guess. However, my personal experience and others here on TUG indicate that the following happen:

Supply and demand figures for past years is kept in the RCI and II computers. However this ONLY applies to a single week deposit. If 2 identical weeks are deposited, like week 52, the second TP is lower than the first – Supply and Demand in action. Basically folks who deposit a holiday week late have lower and lower TP until that TP is lower than a week 50 for instance. This is exactly the opposite affect that was intended! Week 50 has more TP than a week 52 - nuts!

That’s why I can’t compare my exchanges to another Park Plaza owner who deposited the same week as mine – his has lower TP than mine!

As a trading tactic I might actually have more TP in a lesser sought after week than a high demand week – is this nuts or what? But that’s what you get when you embrace Supply and Demand.

RCI Points:
The Park Plaza has a Points Calendar and I know how much RCI Points I’ll get to deposit a week and I know exactly how many Points it takes to get into any week. I can look up other RCI Point resorts and determine, with absolute certainty, if I can get into a week – if it’s available. I can Bank and Borrow Points and combine with other timeshares we have converted to RCI Points. There is no guess work, no secret formulas, no ever changing supply and demand to make the next guy’s deposited week worth any less.

Conclusion:
Supply and Demand result in TP that changes by the second and is secret and you really don’t know what the heck you can get. You place an ongoing search and haven’t the foggiest idea if you qualify for the exchange.

RCI Points is above board, no vacillating TP, just honest to goodness Point Calendars that can change each year to reflect shifting usage but not enough to threaten stability of usage.

To claim that Weeks is a superior system to Points is fall victim of too many sales presentations.
 

timeos2

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RCI gets secret power right but sure screws up points

Carolinian said:
Accurate exchange power.

Heck, a rigid system like RCI Points cannot even adjust when Thanksgiving falls on week 46. In those years, they still give the holiday bump to week 47 even when it isn't Thanksgiving!

And you know you have the correct exchange power because.... ??

(Hint: RCI/II says so! No troublesome charts to read.)
 

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Wal-Mart is a retail business, whose prices are held in check by competition by others selling similar goods. That is a totally different situation from a quasi monopoly exchange service (yes, there is competition in dual affiliated resorts, but these are a rather small minority). You are comparing apples and oranges.


Roger said:
All of this has been played out before. If you read this thread (start toward about post 54 - interesting reading), you will find Carolinian making the same claim.

Supply and Demand?

In the end, neither he nor anyone knows how "supply and demand" is determined within Walmart (does that make Walmart the "worst combination" - published prices but a secret system by which Walmart determines those prices) nor... within the Weeks system. (He offered a simple formula which he claimed was how supply and demand could be used by RCI, but one which upon examination either is not what Weeks uses or is TOTALLY prejudicial against newer, larger resorts.)

I am afraid it is much easier to say that the trading power of Weeks is determined by "supply and demand" than it is to figure out what that really means. I am sure that every exchange company has its own "secret" way by which they determine what they consider to be supply and demand. End of story.
 

Carolinian

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RCI Points is ANYTHING but above board! Its numbers are often rigged to favor certain groups over others. Developers still in sales often have their resorts overpointed, as do overbuilt areas, while location resorts get systematically hosed and the term ''sold out resort'' has a sinister double meaning in the corrupt world of RCI Points. While I can see why points would be to the benfit of someone owning in an overbuilt or otherwise overpointed area and they might be vocal in defending it, that would not be true for those owning in underpointed areas.

Points calendars shifting? Paper and ink printing every two years screams frozen numbers. And how many resort numbers in the Points system have been changed at all since Points started?????? Can you name any at all???? Yes, they did do some window dressing tweaking of the crossover grids, leaving them almost as corrupt as they started, but what about actual resort numbers in Points resorts? If there are any such Points resorts whose numbers have shifted at all, does it take two hands to count them or can you do it on one? Shifting? Not!

Then there is the other limitation of paper and ink publishing of points numbers - overaveraging. They have only so much space so they have to jam too many dissimilar weeks together. This means they say a mid-August week 33 on the Outer Banks has the same value as a late October week 43 of the same size at the same resort, for example. Talk about nuts, that arrangement is the whole fruit cake! A mid-August week will sell or rent for several times what a late October week will, and has a whole lot more trading power in an honest system like RCI Weeks, but the corrupt numbers racket of RCI Points gives them the exact same point value. This isn't some theoretical fluke of extra heavy deposits of a prime week vs. light deposits of a lesser week as you postulate. It is designed into the Points system and there all the time.

It only makes sense under Supply and Demand that a late deposit will have less value. There is less time to find a match, which reduces demand. Last minute inventory is devalued inventory in many circumstances in the leisure travel (but often not business travel) industry. That is exactly the same reason that it takes less trading power to get an exchange in the 45 day window.



PerryM said:
Supply and demand; a catchy phrase but what exactly are we talking about. Lets take the same exact resort, like Park Plaza, which is II, RCI, and RCI Points affiliated (So what’s in your resorts exchange wallet?)

Park Plaza Week:
As an owner at Park Plaza I can book my Prime week any week of the year – I always book week 51 or 52 and we either use the rooms or rent them out for 4 times MF. I can “roll forward” my week to next year or “borrow” a week from next year this year. I can cancel my reservation up to 30 days before check-in and “roll forward” to next year. Why doesn’t your resort do this?

Anyway, my trading power is tremendous – 4 times MF will easily pay for a week in Maui with a $600 MF. I have the ultimate in exchange – heck, I saw a great plasma TV at Sam’s today that we might buy with the rent money.

II Week:
If I want to exchange in II Park Plaza will deposit a generic ski week for me. Not the Trading Power (TP) of cash but I should have some good TP.

RCI Week:
Ditto that of II.

Notice that I have no idea in the world what the TP is – I can only guess. However, my personal experience and others here on TUG indicate that the following happen:

Supply and demand figures for past years is kept in the RCI and II computers. However this ONLY applies to a single week deposit. If 2 identical weeks are deposited, like week 52, the second TP is lower than the first – Supply and Demand in action. Basically folks who deposit a holiday week late have lower and lower TP until that TP is lower than a week 50 for instance. This is exactly the opposite affect that was intended! Week 50 has more TP than a week 52 - nuts!

That’s why I can’t compare my exchanges to another Park Plaza owner who deposited the same week as mine – his has lower TP than mine!

As a trading tactic I might actually have more TP in a lesser sought after week than a high demand week – is this nuts or what? But that’s what you get when you embrace Supply and Demand.

RCI Points:
The Park Plaza has a Points Calendar and I know how much RCI Points I’ll get to deposit a week and I know exactly how many Points it takes to get into any week. I can look up other RCI Point resorts and determine, with absolute certainty, if I can get into a week – if it’s available. I can Bank and Borrow Points and combine with other timeshares we have converted to RCI Points. There is no guess work, no secret formulas, no ever changing supply and demand to make the next guy’s deposited week worth any less.

Conclusion:
Supply and Demand result in TP that changes by the second and is secret and you really don’t know what the heck you can get. You place an ongoing search and haven’t the foggiest idea if you qualify for the exchange.

RCI Points is above board, no vacillating TP, just honest to goodness Point Calendars that can change each year to reflect shifting usage but not enough to threaten stability of usage.

To claim that Weeks is a superior system to Points is fall victim of too many sales presentations.
 
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Carolinian

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timeos2 said:
And you know you have the correct exchange power because.... ??

(Hint: RCI/II says so! No troublesome charts to read.)

As long as the exchange company does not have its own hand in the till, there is no motive to put their thumb on the scales. Or course, that all changes if they start, say, renting out exchange deposits to the general public to put the money in their own pocket, which is why such exchange company rentals needs to be stopped ASAP. It is a huge conflict of interest that is anti-customer.
 

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Your theory flies in the face of the facts as set out on t/s boards by RCI employees Bootleg and Anon, who both have posted that RCI puts some of the prime week exchange deposits into their rental pool immediately when they are deposited by members, and these deposits have nothing to do with cruises, points partners, etc.

Also, you seem to overlook one very important aspect of RCI's business that makes them different from most companies. The products of most companies are purchased or produced with their own capital, which gives them no particular obligation to their customers on how they run the business.

An exchange company is very different. They do not obtain their products (weeks) by using their own capital to purchase it or produce it. Developers may produce some of it by building the resorts and bulkbanking weeks from them. Most of an exchange company's inventory comes from its members purchasing it (buying the week and paying the m/f) and then entrusting it to the exchange company by depositing it for exchange purposes. An exchange company betrays that trust when it rents that inventory to non-members without full disclosure and knowing acceptance by members. Fine print in th boiler plate just does not do that. RCI, like the old Savings and Loans, is betraying its depositors.

All of this is why I have sometimes described the relationship between an exchange company and its depositors as a quasi-fiduciary relationship giving them more duties and obligations toward the depositors than an ordinary business would have toward its customers. Indeed, this is taken a step further in the RCI class action lawsuit from what I understand. I am told that the lawsuit argues that RCI has a fiduciary duty to its depositor/members which is breached by their rental policies. I hope they nail them good on that one!







PerryM said:
Emmy and MidLife,

In my whimsical and sarcastic depicture of our out of control legal system, I’m pointing out that debits = credits. If 1 M reservations were deposited during the last 24 months (2 years past check-in date on reservation) then less than 1 M were exchanged – there is always going to be folks like me who can’t take a vacation during that time.

Notice that there was NOT 1 M + 1 exchanges taken; debits would not equal credits in that case. Which means that there are leftovers and if we assume that 1% of the folks didn’t exchange, for whatever reason, more than enough reservations are available for exchange.

To the Point:
I’ve postulated, here long time ago, that RCI converts all week reservations into RCI Points internally. This would be the efficient way of doing business. This means that reservations are not flagged for “Exchange only” and “Rentals” but RCI Points are.

This is a huge difference:
If 100 B RCI Points entered RCI, in all kinds of ways either Weeks or RCI Points, and 10 B Points are flagged as for external rental, then RCI can grab ANY reservations it wants to fulfill the 10 B Points – any.

Once this is pointed out, there is nothing further to discuss – RCI did nothing wrong but use efficient accounting techniques. The reservation you turn over to RCI Weeks today for exchange might very well be used for renting for cash at RCI discretion - it's their company and not the courts.
 

"Roger"

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Carolinian said:
As long as the exchange company does not have its own hand in the till, there is no motive to put their thumb on the scales. Or course, that all changes if they start, say, renting out exchange deposits to the general public to put the money in their own pocket, which is why such exchange company rentals needs to be stopped ASAP. It is a huge conflict of interest that is anti-customer.
I presume that you are talking about the Weeks system here. At least in theory (and maybe in practice) an exchange company could, on average, give its customers 5% less in trade value than what they put in. This would allow them to skim off the top and make extra income by renting off some of the top properties. (Good point about what can happen within the Weeks system!)

In points, Hyatt, for example, has to give the depositer the same value that the Hyatt owner put in. So too for Disney, Hilton, and the other points systems. At least the customer can see if they are getting the value of what they put into the system back.

Openness is good.
 

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No big deal

Carolinian,

I doubt very much if fellow TUGGERS have access to the internal accounting system used by RCI. My explanation is just as valid as all the rumors floating around – they can’t be used as an established truth and then build from that. We can easily transfer existing techniques, like RCI Points, to other areas of RCI – they came from RCI and are for real.

Let’s face it, the lawyers filing the class actions are looking for 12 bumpkins to make millions of dollars – we all that that. We also know that 12 bumpkins are not hard to find – look at the Mickey Dee’s hot coffee lawsuit to find 12 bumpkins. "79-year old lady orders hot coffee, Mickey Dee's sells her hot coffee, she puts hot coffee foam cup between legs in her grandsons car and it spills. Bumpkins award $3 M for her stupidity."

That’s what this country's legal system has sunk to and RCI might indeed be found guilty or the finding goes against them – big deal. RCI will be light ahead of those bumpkins and simply pass on any cost to it’s members.

I can just see a verdict “each RCI member will get a $5 coupon as compensation”, of course it will cost each RCI member $50 in legal costs – it’s just the cost of doing business in America anymore.

That will show RCI!
 

Carolinian

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Most posters do not have access to RCI's internal systems, but you seem to forget that Bootleg is/was an RCI employee and DID have knowledge of and access to their systems. Anon posted mostly on TimeshareTalk, but he was in the same situation. They were both in a position to know, and you are just guessing.

And BTW, I am sure many Tuggers have served on jury duty. You are saying bad things about them are you?




PerryM said:
Carolinian,

I doubt very much if fellow TUGGERS have access to the internal accounting system used by RCI. My explanation is just as valid as all the rumors floating around – they can’t be used as an established truth and then build from that. We can easily transfer existing techniques, like RCI Points, to other areas of RCI – they came from RCI and are for real.

Let’s face it, the lawyers filing the class actions are looking for 12 bumpkins to make millions of dollars – we all that that. We also know that 12 bumpkins are not hard to find – look at the Mickey Dee’s hot coffee lawsuit to find 12 bumpkins. "79-year old lady orders hot coffee, Mickey Dee's sells her hot coffee, she puts hot coffee foam cup between legs in her grandsons car and it spills. Bumpkins award $3 M for her stupidity."

That’s what this country's legal system has sunk to and RCI might indeed be found guilty or the finding goes against them – big deal. RCI will be light ahead of those bumpkins and simply pass on any cost to it’s members.

I can just see a verdict “each RCI member will get a $5 coupon as compensation”, of course it will cost each RCI member $50 in legal costs – it’s just the cost of doing business in America anymore.

That will show RCI!
 

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Yeah, and when a Points members puts in a mid-August Outer Banks week 33and takes out a late October Outer Banks week 43 for the same number of points, they are getting seriously shortchanged even though the points values are the same. They are NOT giving the same value back in such situations that the member put in. Far from it, in fact.

Overaveraging is bad!




Roger said:
I presume that you are talking about the Weeks system here. At least in theory (and maybe in practice) an exchange company could, on average, give its customers 5% less in trade value than what they put in. This would allow them to skim off the top and make extra income by renting off some of the top properties. (Good point about what can happen within the Weeks system!)

In points, Hyatt, for example, has to give the depositer the same value that the Hyatt owner put in. So too for Disney, Hilton, and the other points systems. At least the customer can see if they are getting the value of what they put into the system back.

Openness is good.
 

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The voodoo drums

Rumors are rumors - using rumors to whip up a class action is done all the time by the lawyers - just look at the silicone implants and the massive awards. Only after the awards did many scientific findings point out the false assumptions used by the courts. Our bumpkins were shown voodoo science and their emotions took over.

Voodoo accounting seems to be what is whipping up folks with RCI - the independent auditors have found no accounting irregularities - that should be all that is needed over voodoo accounting.

My reaction to all these voodoo statements is that we all know that RCI will continue their business and if there are any guilty or verdicts against RCI, RCI will simply out maneuver the courts and pass on all costs to us the members.

We all now this, yet the voodoo drums pound on.

P.S.
If I’ve offended any bumpkins, I sincerely apologize. (You know who you are)
Bumpkins are a subset of jurors; I've never assumed that TUG members belong to that subset - others might infer this, not me.
 
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Rumors?

Bootleg was (and perhaps still is) an RCI employee. He went into several Tuggers accounts to help them with matters. The fact that he was able to do so shows that he was/is exactly what he said he was. With access to RCI's system, when he says that he can track weeks deposited by members for exchange not connected to points partners, cruises, etc. that are deposited immmediately by RCI into the rental pool, as he did, we are getting this directly from the primary source with personal knowledge of the facts, not from rumor. The fact that the information doesn't fit with your theories does not make it rumor.

The same is true with Anon. When he first started to post on TimeshareTalk as an RCI employee, the site owner decided to check out his bonafides by asking a series of specific questions about his own RCI account that only someone with access to RCI's computers could answer. Anon came back with all of the correct answers. He was what he said he was. Again, he is a primary source with actual knowledge of the facts, not mere rumor.

I am sorry if these primary sources with actual knowledge of the facts spoil your mere theories.

Further, I do not know of any connection between either Anon or Bootleg and any of the class action lawyers. Do you, since you have made this allegation?

As to voodoo accounting, this is more what Sunterra (and probably RCI) has used to try to justify the status quo. It failed with Sunterra, and it will fail with RCI, most likely, as well.

Did you also make predictions that the Savings and Loans, and perhaps Enron, would also continue with business as usual in spite of the courts? We saw how those came out.

As to your use of the term ''bumpkins'', you apply that to all jurors in many of your posts. I would think that would be offensive to anyone who has served on jury duty. Now you say it is only a subset of jurors. I have pointed out that both experienced trial attorneys and jury consultants don't even waste their challenges on prospective jurors they perceive as mere followers, and there are some on every jury. It is the likely opinion leaders that count on a jury and that is who will determine the outcome of jury deliberations and who attorneys focus on with their challenges.




PerryM said:
Rumors are rumors - using rumors to whip up a class action is done all the time by the lawyers - just look at the silicone implants and the massive awards. Only after the awards did many scientific findings point out the false assumptions used by the courts. Our bumpkins were shown voodoo science and their emotions took over.

Voodoo accounting seems to be what is whipping up folks with RCI - the independent auditors have found no accounting irregularities - that should be all that is needed over voodoo accounting.

My reaction to all these voodoo statements is that we all know that RCI will continue their business and if there are any guilty or verdicts against RCI, RCI will simply out maneuver the courts and pass on all costs to us the members.

We all now this, yet the voodoo drums pound on.

P.S.
If I’ve offended any bumpkins, I sincerely apologize. (You know who you are)
Bumpkins are a subset of jurors; I've never assumed that TUG members belong to that subset - others might infer this, not me.
 

timeos2

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Lets get to the bottom line. Public or secret best?

Carolinian said:
Yeah, and when a Points members puts in a mid-August Outer Banks week 33and takes out a late October Outer Banks week 43 for the same number of points, they are getting seriously shortchanged even though the points values are the same. They are NOT giving the same value back in such situations that the member put in. Far from it, in fact.

Overaveraging is bad!

Overaveraged, underaveraged, middle aged, secretly or publically detirmined it makes no difference IF YOU KNOW THE RESULTS! Then you the buyer can decide if the resort/area/product is a value or not. If RCI or any system overvalues resorts or areas then the users are going to avoid that area and leave a surplus of time. If they undervalue it the users will flock to it and they will get complaints that it is unavailable. Any system thrives when the demand and supply are in balance. That is what a published system allows. The users to decide if the "price is right" or not. Changes will occur, in public, to get the system in balance.

With the weeks secret society approach only the developers and the exchange companies really know what value they are assigning. No one can say if the values under that system are as dynamic as you say or if they were set in the computer in 1990 and never altered since. We don't know so when we hear "Your trade power is (fill in the blank) ___________ (good) (poor) (OK)" we have to accept it. Talk about the power to manipulate!

While a published system may not be perfect it is far superior to a totally hidden system that has led to the unbelievable amount of owners sold an impossible dream by the slick sales people and the "you can trade anywhere with this November beach unit" garbage. If there was a low number published next to that week and high numbers published next to those weeks they dream of trading into do you think that wouldn't be painfully obvious it couldn't work that way? That, and only that, is the reason they keep it secret. It doesn't and can't benefit the owners.
 

taffy19

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Just a thought

Would it be better if RCI would come up with a point value list of all the timeshare resorts (week and point-based) that exchange with RCI for a daily occupancy for all sizes of accommodations? In that case, people can decide immediately if their timeshare is valued properly for them and if they want to go ahead and deposit it or not. I am aware that supply and demand changes constantly but a smart computer system knows exactly what is in the inventory pool and what exchanges have been requested so should be able to give a current point value instantaneously. This would be fair to all members and it doesn't matter what you own (a week or points).

Also, new developers will get a high point value for their new resorts because they are up to date and in excellent condition and will get more points yet if the area is not saturated and the resort is in a prime location. Developers will have an incentive to start building in other popular areas too. Just a thought.
 

"Roger"

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iconnections said:
Would it be better if RCI would come up with a point value list of all the timeshare resorts (week and point-based) that exchange with RCI for a daily occupancy for all sizes of accommodations? In that case, people can decide immediately if their timeshare is valued properly for them and if they want to go ahead and deposit it or not. ....
Yes, it would be better. Then you wouldn't have the tragedies like what the OP experienced.

I might just mention in passing with regard to "dynamic" (constantly changing) system supply and demand that is being touted by Carolinian, the most obvious case of a "dynamic" system of changing prices would be the stock exchanges. What goes with that is that what asking prices are, bid prices are, and actual completed trade prices are are made TOTALLY transparent. (And if something exchanges hands without transparancy, the SEC steps to investigate for price fixing.)

In the "dynamic" supply and demand of RCI (II, SFX, etc.) has anyone ever been told what the exact trading power was need to consumate an exchange?

I am afraid that this system does nothing but give advantages to the developers over the consumers. Not good.
 

BocaBum99

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I believe the two biggest scams in all of timesharing are a) resort developers financing a timeshare purchase at 15% interest for an asset that depreciates more than 50% overnight and b) the lack of adequate disclosure about exchange availability and trading power.

a) results in many owners not being able to sell their timeshare even when they haven't used it for years.

b) allows resort developers to lie about how well their specific timeshare trades. Point systems do better than weeks systems in disclosing trading power. But, supply and demand isn't optimally met because point values aren't set right which leads to availability issues. Even so, the availability in points still is better than weeks since everyone has access to all available inventory as long as they have enough points and higher point values throttles back demand where required.
 
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