UPDATE: RCI CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT - must read for all RCI members [Includes Results]

[Purplebird]

RCI still renting units instead of making them available for exchange

First I want to thank everyone who has contributed to this very informative BBS. My husband and I are two of those timeshare owners who were not notified of this lawsuit. So, I guess we're not eligible for any benefits (which is ok.) However, I was hoping that RCI would be forced to make available ALL units that were deposited available to anyone looking for an exchange. Well, here it is January 10, 2010 and they're still renting units instead of making them available for exchange! I printed out a listing of all the 24 units they have available for RENT (at a specific resort in Montanta - The Lake Condos at Big Sky #0175) I also printed out a list of the 6 units available for exchange (these units are only available in Nov & Jan.) I thought this was one of the things the lawsuit was supposed to change. They have done this to us several times. We've even lost our banked weeks because they could not find us an exchange anywhere near the area where we wanted to vacation. Every year we bank our red week (in the Myrtle Beach area) and ALWAYS have difficulty exchanging it (even if we put in our request 18-20 months in advance!) When is RCI required to implement the lawsuit changes? Can a new class action lawsuit be brought against RCI for the owners who are still being ripped off in the year 2010?

 

[Egret1986]

Come up with a new strategy is my suggestion

I would not keep banking prime weeks with an exchange company only to lose them because the exchange company doesn't have what you need for when you need it. You paid a maintenance fee for those weeks you have lost. You pay a membership to RCI. You say your Myrtle Beach is a red week, but is it a prime summer week (wks 25-32)? Or is it a pink week?

Obviously, you're dissatisfied. I wouldn't keep waiting for things to get better at RCI. I've been a member of RCI since 1984 in Weeks and now in Points. Every year I make the most of my membership and am still satisfied, but I have adapted to the changes necessary to continue getting what I want and need from my membership. If I ever lost a week to RCI because I couldn't get an exchange, then that would be the end of my membership.

Lake Condominiums in the summer (you don't say when you're trying to go) is a hard exchange. Although one year I did get a mid-July week with a blue beach week. However, this was about 4 years ago and it is very doubtful that this would happen again.

If your Myrtle Beach week is a Prime red week, you may consider renting it out instead and use the money to rent where you want to go. I own a wk 27 at Lake Condos at Big Sky and I would never consider depositing it with RCI. It is too valuable to me as a rental.

 

[Dee in California]

Dee - I was wondering if you could shed any light on why the official class action attorneys failed to do any discovery whatsoever on the merits of the case before accepting a VERY weak ''settlement''? For me that is a huge red flag that something is very seriously amiss with the way this went down

Call the class action attorney and ask them. There were six law firms involved. I have no way of knowing what went on at all six.

 

[Carolinian]

Try one of the independent exchange companies like:

www.daelive.com
www.htse.net
www.tradingplaces.com
www.sfx-resorts.com
www.platinuminterchange.com

First I want to thank everyone who has contributed to this very informative BBS. My husband and I are two of those timeshare owners who were not notified of this lawsuit. So, I guess we're not eligible for any benefits (which is ok.) However, I was hoping that RCI would be forced to make available ALL units that were deposited available to anyone looking for an exchange. Well, here it is January 10, 2010 and they're still renting units instead of making them available for exchange! I printed out a listing of all the 24 units they have available for RENT (at a specific resort in Montanta - The Lake Condos at Big Sky #0175) I also printed out a list of the 6 units available for exchange (these units are only available in Nov & Jan.) I thought this was one of the things the lawsuit was supposed to change. They have done this to us several times. We've even lost our banked weeks because they could not find us an exchange anywhere near the area where we wanted to vacation. Every year we bank our red week (in the Myrtle Beach area) and ALWAYS have difficulty exchanging it (even if we put in our request 18-20 months in advance!) When is RCI required to implement the lawsuit changes? Can a new class action lawsuit be brought against RCI for the owners who are still being ripped off in the year 2010?

 

[Dee in California]

Carolinian

I am not all all sure that discovery was not done. In fact, I think they San Fransisco firm did discovery, and there was a lot of voluntary exchange of documents, as I recall. I can tell you this much. RCI never denied having rented out our weeks. They flat out said, yes we do, and we have a right to do so. So the fight became whether they did, in fact, have the right to do so, not whether they were in fact doing it. That does change the discovery demands to some degree. We did not have to go to great lengths to prove what they were up to when they admitted it. Damages were, of course, still an issue.

I am curious if you see that same problem that I do. It seems that some people are seeking what amounts to a permanent injunction against RCI ever renting out weeks. The problems is, with new members, RCI renting out weeks is a perfectly valid and legal contact as long as all parties are clearly informed that that is the deal up front. RCI snuck it in on existing members without every directly telling us of their doing so, which created grounds for the class action (along with other related issues). However, you are not going to find a court that will issue a permanent injunction against future contracts that are valid and legal with proper notice prior to signing. (That means actually reading all of that fine print before you sign.)

Some people seem determined to drag that desire to the Supreme Court if necessary, while RCI gleefully rents out our weeks - and the appealing will not every get what they are seeking. RCI must be very amused and very happy with this fact. They are making a fortune off of it.

 

[Dee in California]

When is RCI required to implement the lawsuit changes? Can a new class action lawsuit be brought against RCI for the owners who are still being ripped off in the year 2010?

The lawsuit changes will implement as soon as the appeal is done, or terminated by the 3rd circuit Court of Appeal. You can thank the appealing parties for the fact that RCI can still rent out our weeks any time they want to. You can bet RCI is laughing all the way to their swollen bank accounts. And if the 3rd Circuit is following the usual procedures - all costs of the appeal will be assessed against the Plaintiffs when they lose!

 

[motomem]

An interesting twist on RCI's inventory. I assume this is coming from RCI's rental inventory - this new benefit I have with Bluegreen Vacation Club. It became available today, Jan. 18th. Maybe this is common with other vacation clubs, I don't know.

From Bluegreen's owner website:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Use Your Points for Nightly Stays at RCI Resorts!

Now you can use your Points for nightly stays at RCI resorts instead of having to deposit a full week!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I can use my Bluegreen points to rent nightly with RCI. Along with that a fee is involved depending on the number of nights:

1-3 Nts: $79
4-6 Nts: $119
7+ Nts: $179

Normally I would have to book a full week with Bluegreen, deposit the week with RCI, then exchange. This new benefit allows me to search real-time the availability on rci.com and then book by nights.

I think RCI is in the process of killing the weeks program all together - that's the way it looks to me anyway.

 

[Carolinian]

Even as to new members, I still think they have a contract of adhesion problem, so even if it is in the contract it is still not valid or binding. There was discussion of this aspect of the problem at some length on the old Timeshare Beat.

Also, under consumer protection law in most states, even a valid contract is subject to challenge if it is ''unfair'' or ''deceptive''. Burying this stuff in the fine print while implying otherwise in their general description of the program is, IMHO, always going to trip them up on these tests.

I am not all all sure that discovery was not done. In fact, I think they San Fransisco firm did discovery, and there was a lot of voluntary exchange of documents, as I recall. I can tell you this much. RCI never denied having rented out our weeks. They flat out said, yes we do, and we have a right to do so. So the fight became whether they did, in fact, have the right to do so, not whether they were in fact doing it. That does change the discovery demands to some degree. We did not have to go to great lengths to prove what they were up to when they admitted it. Damages were, of course, still an issue.

I am curious if you see that same problem that I do. It seems that some people are seeking what amounts to a permanent injunction against RCI ever renting out weeks. The problems is, with new members, RCI renting out weeks is a perfectly valid and legal contact as long as all parties are clearly informed that that is the deal up front. RCI snuck it in on existing members without every directly telling us of their doing so, which created grounds for the class action (along with other related issues). However, you are not going to find a court that will issue a permanent injunction against future contracts that are valid and legal with proper notice prior to signing. (That means actually reading all of that fine print before you sign.)

Some people seem determined to drag that desire to the Supreme Court if necessary, while RCI gleefully rents out our weeks - and the appealing will not every get what they are seeking. RCI must be very amused and very happy with this fact. They are making a fortune off of it.

 

[Carolinian]

We REALLY do need to let our HOA's know what RCI is up to and urge them to start working to migrate their members who exchange to more honest exchange companies.

An interesting twist on RCI's inventory. I assume this is coming from RCI's rental inventory - this new benefit I have with Bluegreen Vacation Club. It became available today, Jan. 18th. Maybe this is common with other vacation clubs, I don't know.

From Bluegreen's owner website:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Use Your Points for Nightly Stays at RCI Resorts!

Now you can use your Points for nightly stays at RCI resorts instead of having to deposit a full week!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I can use my Bluegreen points to rent nightly with RCI. Along with that a fee is involved depending on the number of nights:

1-3 Nts: $79
4-6 Nts: $119
7+ Nts: $179

Normally I would have to book a full week with Bluegreen, deposit the week with RCI, then exchange. This new benefit allows me to search real-time the availability on rci.com and then book by nights.

I think RCI is in the process of killing the weeks program all together - that's the way it looks to me anyway.

 

[catcher24]

An interesting twist on RCI's inventory. I assume this is coming from RCI's rental inventory - this new benefit I have with Bluegreen Vacation Club. It became available today, Jan. 18th. Maybe this is common with other vacation clubs, I don't know.

From Bluegreen's owner website:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Use Your Points for Nightly Stays at RCI Resorts!

Now you can use your Points for nightly stays at RCI resorts instead of having to deposit a full week!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I can use my Bluegreen points to rent nightly with RCI. Along with that a fee is involved depending on the number of nights:

1-3 Nts: $79
4-6 Nts: $119
7+ Nts: $179

Normally I would have to book a full week with Bluegreen, deposit the week with RCI, then exchange. This new benefit allows me to search real-time the availability on rci.com and then book by nights.

I think RCI is in the process of killing the weeks program all together - that's the way it looks to me anyway.

You may want to check into this a little further. I think this benefit applies to points resorts only. As an RCI points owner, I have had this option since I became a points resort owner. However, you can only book nightly stays at points resorts. If you want to stay at a weeks resort, you still must book the time in weekly blocks. And if in your case it does apply to all resorts, I'll be contacting RCI immediately to find out why Bluegreen points owners have better benefits through RCI than RCI points owners do!:annoyed:

 

[Dee in California]

Carolinian

Even as to new members, I still think they have a contract of adhesion problem, so even if it is in the contract it is still not valid or binding

I doubt it. If people want to put their weeks in knowing that RCI may or may not rent them out, they have a right to do so. As long as some weeks are made available and most people get at least semi-reasonable trades, I do not see that as being so one-sided that it is so unconscionable that the court would shut it down. People may not be able to get Hawaii for their Iowa January week, but really, that was not an equitable trade anyway - just a stroke of sheer luck. Not saying I would do it, but what the court is willing to actually put an injunction on is a pretty high hurdle to jump. Free trade is a concept they protect to a ridiculous degree. Consider what car dealers get away with every day!

Well, our benefits and protections would have started January 11 - if not for the appeals.

 

[thheath]

As retired military I keep getting offers from RCI to rent weeks for $329; so nothing has changed on that front.

http://emails.fam2friends.com/w/web...ATVNOLkNPTQ__&si=&mv=R&bv=H&oc=H&sc=&k=11ExQW

 

[Dee in California]

Nothing will change as long as the appeal is pending. RCI are entirely within their rights to keep gleefully renting out weeks until the appeal is settled, adjudicated, kicked out on its merits, or the appealing parties drop their case.

 

[motomem]

You may want to check into this a little further. I think this benefit applies to points resorts only. As an RCI points owner, I have had this option since I became a points resort owner. However, you can only book nightly stays at points resorts. If you want to stay at a weeks resort, you still must book the time in weekly blocks. And if in your case it does apply to all resorts, I'll be contacting RCI immediately to find out why Bluegreen points owners have better benefits through RCI than RCI points owners do!:annoyed:

You are probably correct that it is only points resorts. In order to use the benefit I have to set up a points account with RCI.

It's probably not better than what you have with RCI. For me, I would have to burn points AND pay the fee.

 

[catcher24]

You are probably correct that it is only points resorts. In order to use the benefit I have to set up a points account with RCI.

It's probably not better than what you have with RCI. For me, I would have to burn points AND pay the fee.

I actually pay a fee to use this option too. Can't remember how much the fee is, but the figures you posted sound familiar. It is a rather handy option to have. I went to South Beach Resort in Mytrle Beach for five days in October, so only had to burn five nights worth of points rather than a full week's worth.

 

[Carolinian]

Dee, the issue goes far beyond the 45 day window (Jan. Iowa for Hawaii) issue. And thanks to being buried in the fine print, the vast majority of members do NOT in fact know it! Member also do not expect it, as this policy contradicts the way RCI presents itself to members. The test in consumer protection statutes is NOT ''unfair AND deceptive'', it is ''unfair OR deceptive''. While I belive RCI's practices meet both tests, they without a doubt meet the second one.

And the limited ''protection'' that the official class action attorneys sold out for is not all that great to begin with.

Even as to new members, I still think they have a contract of adhesion problem, so even if it is in the contract it is still not valid or binding

I doubt it. If people want to put their weeks in knowing that RCI may or may not rent them out, they have a right to do so. As long as some weeks are made available and most people get at least semi-reasonable trades, I do not see that as being so one-sided that it is so unconscionable that the court would shut it down. People may not be able to get Hawaii for their Iowa January week, but really, that was not an equitable trade anyway - just a stroke of sheer luck. Not saying I would do it, but what the court is willing to actually put an injunction on is a pretty high hurdle to jump. Free trade is a concept they protect to a ridiculous degree. Consider what car dealers get away with every day!

Well, our benefits and protections would have started January 11 - if not for the appeals.

 

[Dee in California]

Carolinian

Member also do not expect it, as this policy contradicts the way RCI presents itself to members. The test in consumer protection statutes is NOT ''unfair AND deceptive'', it is ''unfair OR deceptive''. While I belive RCI's practices meet both tests, they without a doubt meet the second one.

I am well aware of the legal standard. I simply do not agree with you that it is met. Reasonable minds can differ. But then, I never agreed with the cases that said that "Oh, he did not read the contract, so how could be have known?" Moral - read what you sign! That is an ongoing and annoying concept in personal injury law - the lack of personal responsibility that sometimes goes with it.

I suspect, after all of the dust is settles RCI will make far more of a focused point in the membership rules as to what they can do with weeks. Personally, I plan to be long gone by then from their membership roles. I am done with that company.


And the limited ''protection'' that the official class action attorneys sold out for is not all that great to begin with.

While that may in some views be true, it certainly beats the continued RCI free for all, which was my point. At least it put some kind of limitations on them until most of us can get clear and bail out!

 

[zgreg9]

Ojection letter from OCEAN EAST RESORT CLUB ASSOCIATION

I have not been following this thread every day since Judge Sheridan's decision. Therefore my post is most likely not in tune with current discussion. While doing some research for a resort in Orsmond Beach area, I came across upon this objection letter from the OCEAN EAST RESORT CLUB ASSOCIATION to Clerk of Court addressed to Judge Sheridan. It is an excellent letter that many other associations should have written. Please go to this link to read it ( 3 pages long) http://www.oceaneast.com/RCI_CA_update.pdf

Greg

 

[jerseygirl]

Wow -- what a great letter. If only the original plaintiffs (or at least one of them) would have refused to go down a path where "the four corners of the lawsuit did not deal with RCI's right to rent weeks" (a statement made by the attorneys repeatedly during the final hearing). I'm not an attorney, but I certainly got the feeling that the issue of whether or not RCI had the legal right to rent weeks was decided in favor of RCI long before we got to that stage (although I'm not clear on how -- I think the plaintiffs and/or their attorneys gave in on the issue -- I don't think there was a legal ruling to that effect, but I could be wrong).

I'm not a big fan of class action suits, but I think it would be great if we could start a new one that centers completely around RCI's right to rent weeks, insists that profits made from illegal rentals be distributed to owners, etc.

Legal question for Dee and Carolinian: Could the objectors start another suit ... or only those who "opted out?" I'm afraid the appeal will only center around the same issues (i.e., RCI's right to rent will continue to be outside the 4 corners of the lawsuit -- whatever the heck that means).

Before I get attacked by those who don't believe that class action suits really accomplish anything -- I agree. However, hassling RCI is a whole lot of fun!

 

[Carolinian]

The best route to get this back in court is with a State AG consumer protection lawsuit. The trick is to get someone high up in the state AG's office of a state to get interested in pursuing it. State AG's usually have tools in such matters not availible to others, like pre-litigation discovery. Just contemplating such a lawsuit, they could pop RCI with a raft of Requests for Production of Documents and Subpoenas for Depositions of company officials.

Some state AG's lately have been going after other aspects of timeshare businesses. Maybe one could be convinced that RCI is the biggest trophy of all of timesharing to hang on their wall.

Wow -- what a great letter. If only the original plaintiffs (or at least one of them) would have refused to go down a path where "the four corners of the lawsuit did not deal with RCI's right to rent weeks" (a statement made by the attorneys repeatedly during the final hearing). I'm not an attorney, but I certainly got the feeling that the issue of whether or not RCI had the legal right to rent weeks was decided in favor of RCI long before we got to that stage (although I'm not clear on how -- I think the plaintiffs and/or their attorneys gave in on the issue -- I don't think there was a legal ruling to that effect, but I could be wrong).

I'm not a big fan of class action suits, but I think it would be great if we could start a new one that centers completely around RCI's right to rent weeks, insists that profits made from illegal rentals be distributed to owners, etc.

Legal question for Dee and Carolinian: Could the objectors start another suit ... or only those who "opted out?" I'm afraid the appeal will only center around the same issues (i.e., RCI's right to rent will continue to be outside the 4 corners of the lawsuit -- whatever the heck that means).

Before I get attacked by those who don't believe that class action suits really accomplish anything -- I agree. However, hassling RCI is a whole lot of fun!

 

[Carolinian]

Getting an AG involved - some action in Missouri?

A timeshare owner in Missouri has PM'ed me and related that he has filed a complaint with the Missouri AG's office about RCI's rental practices and they seem to show an interest. This has been one of the most aggressive state AG's offices in the country in working to clean up vacation industry malpractices, so maybe they will be the one to press RCI hard on its rentals. The matter is now at the stage where they have forwarded the complaint to RCI for its comments. The person who filed the complaint relates that since it went in to RCI, RCI has suddenly started bending over backwards to be nice to him.

Right now, the most effective thing to do to help sway the Missouri AG to get actively involved is to get more complaints in. If you are a Missouri resident or own timeshare in Missouri or are an HOA board member of a Missouri timeshare, you can help by following up with your own complaint.

If you want to coordinate directly with the original complaintant, please PM me and I will put you in contact with him. He is a long time Tugger but not currently able to post here.

 

[catcher24]

If you could find someone in New York who was interested in filing a complaint I would bet a bundle you would get Andrew Cuomo, NYS Attorney General, to pursue the case. Old Andy is looking for some more national exposure to build up to his run for governor this year, and going after someone like RCI would certainly embellish his credentials as AG. Not that an AG would do anything for political motivations....

 

[CJ711]

Hi all

I'm the Admin for a little timeshare news blog called Inside the Gate. I recently got the site revamped and opened it up for comments and a couple of people left comments that I should report about the RCI settlement, so I googled it and holy cow!!! I've been looking at stuff about it for at least a couple of days now, and there's so much to plow through my head is spinning from it. TUG seems to have the most info in one place, so I've spent some time reading through this thread and following links.

I understand the basic complaint (I knew about that before but hadn't followed it), but all the legal wrangling that's gone on since has me a bit confused, and the language in the settlement itself, well, I'll need to study on that I guess to really understand it. It seems to me that basically RCI said they didn't do anything wrong and promised not to do it again, at least not for 2 years. And then they offered the complainants some trinkets and beads as compensation.

I'm not a professional writer and I do have a day job, lol, and I don't know how I'll ever be able to condense all the info into a shortish report that covers all the bases. So I'm hoping that some/one of you might help me make sense of it all, concisely? I'd be happy to give credit where it's due, link back to TUG, whatever is right. If I'm out of line with this request, please excuse me, I don't mean to step on any toes.

Thanks

CJ (a serious newshound)

 

[Carolinian]

If you could find someone in New York who was interested in filing a complaint I would bet a bundle you would get Andrew Cuomo, NYS Attorney General, to pursue the case. Old Andy is looking for some more national exposure to build up to his run for governor this year, and going after someone like RCI would certainly embellish his credentials as AG. Not that an AG would do anything for political motivations....

Well, they say that AG really stands for ''Aspiring Governor''.

If you get the AG himself interested, that is obviously best, but usually the key would be a couple of levels down in the top ranks of the consumer protection division. Unfortunately, a civilian sending in a complaint is almost certain to have it shunted to some lower level person who lacks much decision making authority. The trick is to get it kicked higher. One way to do that is for someone to already have connections higher. The other is to have enough complaints come in that it gets their attention. That means for example, getting enough people with Missouri connections to send in their own complaints while it has some attention in the AG's office. One complaint by itself, if not made by someone with connections, will almost certainly go nowhere unless it gets backed up by similar complaints arriving in a timely manner.

And, of course, the AG's who have already thrown their weight around on other timeshare related issues, like Missouri, is the best place to start.

 

[catcher24]

Well, they say that AG really stands for ''Aspiring Governor''.

:rofl: :hysterical:

Excellent!

Your point is certainly well taken. It would be nice to get a lot of RCI owners who have properties in Missouri to get letters off to the Missouri AG.