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Vidanta Fees (merged--post all info about fee increases here)

Eric B

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It can still be cheaper exchanging into Grand Luxxe weeks than paying usage fees, but this seems to greatly effect the other ones as far as viability of exchanges. Seems like the hotel side is winning now. We'll see how it affects there sales; have you ever seen them reduce fees? Seems like the whole pay in advance part of it limits how much they can offer to induce sales attendance.
 

PamMo

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I guess this new resort fee structure will make some exchangers think twice about exchanging into 2, 3, or 4 bedroom units with just 2 guests, since they will no longer be paying relatively low resort fees for such large units, if Vidanta has perceived this as a problem...

We won't be exchanging into Vidanta again because of these fees. We've traded into Grand Luxxe five times in the last three years, and we loved each and every visit. It is the only vacation where we eat almost every meal in restaurants on property, we enjoy tropical cocktails at the bars, love the spa services, and shop in the Vidanta stores. I wasn't thrilled with the $11/pp per day fees for adults, and the $30/pp per day fees reached the tipping point for us. The new mandatory minimum suite fees made me completely cross off Vidanta for any future trips (I've deleted all Vidanta resorts from my search list). We travel with single adults who like having a private bedroom, so the fees go up to $50/day for three of us sharing a 2BR suite. It's much higher for 3 and 4BR units for 4 or 5 people. IMO, there is nothing extra that Vidanta offers in value for that kind of additional cost.

We have one more Grand Luxxe exchange with the old $11 fee coming up, so sadly, we'll be saying goodbye to Vidanta!
 

TravelTime

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I just booked a week in a one bedroom suite at the Grand Luxxe NV for September through my private ICE Rewards account. I used a promo certificate so I am paying nothing for the week. My receipt has a $75 resort fee for the week. I made sure there was not a daily resort fee before booking.
 

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So far ICE and SFX seem to still have the $75 resort fees. We'll see if that changes.
 

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They should change the resort chain name from Vidanta to Mordida.
 

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So are they having problems with Sales and most of their customers come from Trades? So they have to Jack up fees to keep up the cash flow and/or to encourage people to buy.
 

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Sadly we are OUT as well! No more exchanges to VIDANTA for us. Guess they need more money to build build build. I miss the good old days and the smaller imprint on the beautiful bay. This place is getting ridiculous!
 

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So are they having problems with Sales and most of their customers come from Trades? So they have to Jack up fees to keep up the cash flow and/or to encourage people to buy.

Interesting question. The only thing we can be relatively sure about is that it is a calculated plan in order to maximize profit. I can see a couple of logical reasons - but pure conjecture.

1: The practice of dumping inventory into exchange companies and having exchangers get great deals on GL units is really not sustainable. Why would people buy when they can exchange in with minimal invested inventory? Resort fees certainly is a way to remedy that; they might well be searching for the right amount that will keep exchangers coming - but where the value of ownership is recognized as a real benefit.

2: They could be actually trying to phase out of the timeshare exchange business and more into the destination resort model. As the theme park gets closer to fruition in Nuevo, then they might be trying to move from the traditional timeshare owner to the family vacationing crowd. If this is the case, we might well see the resort fees being resort specific - higher in Nuevo then say Acapulco.

Whether it is one of these strategies or some other, I hope Management understands the balance between maximizing profit and maximizing customer (owners and exchangers) satisfaction. Personally, I am concerned that they do not and are eroding customer relations - not just through the sales process but also through the people that vacation and own at the resorts.

Mike
 

Eric B

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So are they having problems with Sales and most of their customers come from Trades? So they have to Jack up fees to keep up the cash flow and/or to encourage people to buy.

Actually, from what I read in a different thread here a few months ago 2017 was their best sales year to date and they expected 2018 to be just a good, if not better. My take on the situation is that the Grupo Vidanta structure with separate organizations for sales and hotel operation results in competing power centers. Sales has been doing quite well lately, but the hotel side needs to cover its costs in order for its executives to earn their keep (i.e., bonuses, perhaps?), so they added and have raised the resort fees. Periodically the sales side dumps excess inventory and runs specials with exchange companies to spur sales by getting prospects in the door; those specials allow current owners to return more inexpensively, which spurs the hotel side to take some actions to limit that. I wouldn't be surprised to see some specials with respect to the resort fees in a few years; I've seen specials targeting the Mexican national market prior to signing on to RCI when I've gone to that site from Mexico.

Interesting question. The only thing we can be relatively sure about is that it is a calculated plan in order to maximize profit. I can see a couple of logical reasons - but pure conjecture.

1: The practice of dumping inventory into exchange companies and having exchangers get great deals on GL units is really not sustainable. Why would people buy when they can exchange in with minimal invested inventory? Resort fees certainly is a way to remedy that; they might well be searching for the right amount that will keep exchangers coming - but where the value of ownership is recognized as a real benefit.

2: They could be actually trying to phase out of the timeshare exchange business and more into the destination resort model. As the theme park gets closer to fruition in Nuevo, then they might be trying to move from the traditional timeshare owner to the family vacationing crowd. If this is the case, we might well see the resort fees being resort specific - higher in Nuevo then say Acapulco.

Whether it is one of these strategies or some other, I hope Management understands the balance between maximizing profit and maximizing customer (owners and exchangers) satisfaction. Personally, I am concerned that they do not and are eroding customer relations - not just through the sales process but also through the people that vacation and own at the resorts.

Mike

I've got to agree with you on the first one; dumping inventory and giving exchangers good deals on GL isn't a great strategy and could have the effect of devaluing the brand. The most bizarre thing about it is that the resort fees for GL NV & RM are the same as for the Mayan Palace weeks there. They are not doing a very good job of market segmentation in that regard. While it might be matching their costs arguably well because of the drivers they cite being predominantly the resort facilities as a whole rather than the capital side of things, it doesn't match the customer base. The current resort fee scheme comes nowhere near matching the usage fee ladder for owners through the different brand. Of course, this could be motivated by a desire to move upscale as a whole and phase out the lower tiers.

As far as the resort specific aspect, it's already there. It costs less in resort fees for Puerto Vallarta than it does for Nuevo Vallarta for example. I didn't go through all of them, but did notice the differences.
 

T-Dot-Traveller

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Actually, from what I read in a different thread here a few months ago 2017 was their best sales year to date and they expected 2018 to be just a good, if not better. I wouldn't be surprised to see some specials with respect to the resort fees in a few years.......I've seen specials targeting the Mexican national market prior to signing on to RCI when I've gone to that site from Mexico.


The most bizarre thing about it is that the resort fees for GL NV & RM are the same as for the MayanPalace ...... Of course, this could be motivated by a desire to move upscale as a whole and phase out the lower tiers.

As far as the resort specific aspect, it's already there. It costs less in resort fees for Puerto Vallarta than it does for Nuevo Vallarta for example. I didn't go through all of them, but did notice the differences.

The info I read & posted - “ 2017 - best sales year “ )was Nuevo specific . It was in one of the PV on line “ newspapers “- and was specifically about the entertainment for the annual event / party honouring NV sales performance .
[ added- 2017 may have been their best sales year - system wide / it apparently was the Nuevo team’s best result ever ]

I agree that that the “ ying & yang “ between hotel management needs & sales management needs
is creating some odd stuff . IMO this is not something new for Vidanta / Mayan .

One thing we have not mentioned - prior to the addition of the resort fee model - Vidanta was only allowing one high season RCI exchange per year . Perhaps that had “issues “as well .
Once upon a time Grupo Mayan had RCI - 1 in 3 ( all the way to 1 in 5 ) rules . Then they moved away from that structure .

I have a couple of snowbird season RCI exchanges booked for 2 bedrooms at MP - PV Marina . It cost 21 TPU’s when the fee was $ 7 pp/pd . When it went to $20 ( net $15 ) the TPU cost dropped to 18 .
Non - snowbird season seems to be 8- 12 TPU’s when I look on RCI .
The most recent change : to a flat fee per suite size , may make sense for Vidanta BUT may not make sense for me . I will review all my options when the time comes . on the other hand , Vidanta may have redefined the fees again by then .

I am not surprised that there are different promos etc for the Mexican National market .
IMO - the growth of that market , is what will ultimately reduce the dumping of weeks into exchange companies .
 
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mike53

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For some reason I have a feeling that Vidanta has thoroughly evaluated their decision to change the resort fee structure and this won't be their downfall. They seem to have made a lot of changes over the years and still seem to be thriving.

With regards to the changes in fees, I'll probably get a lot of grief for stating my opinion but here it goes.

I too, like others, am not overjoyed by the increase in the fees but have to step back and look realistically what I am getting. I've read here where folks were upset when the resort fee went from $75/week for some trades to the $11/pp/day. This applied to my II trade June. (Attending the presentation it reverted to $75/week plus the other discounts offered). Wow! Even without the presentation it still would have worked out to be whole $154/week plus home resort maintenance fees. I was able to use certificates so no maintenance fees were added. For 2 people in GB or GL one bedroom I didn't think that was too bad.

My upcoming February trade through II shows fees of $30/pp or for 2 it comes out to $420/week. From what I've read here new fees are now going up to $630/week for a 1br. My thinking is, for what I am getting, it is still worth it. The quality of the resort, the service and the overall ambiance of the resort for what turns out to be $90/night in fees. If I included an annual home resort maintenance fee of maybe $600 for the trade, it still works out to $1230/week or $175/night for a one bedroom GL. What would a luxury 1br resort hotel cost?

I randomly looked online at the Holiday Inn in Cancun and for a February week next year one could get a HOTEL room for $1,431 per week. Would it compare? Not in my book.

I guess I can understand that some people get upset when they purchased a timeshare resort for $1.00 on Ebay (as I have several) and pay a low maintenance fee of perhaps $600/week and expect to get a luxury resort for what was $675/week. We all played the system. For me though, for what I am getting even with the increases the cost IMHO is worth the expense. If it wasn't, or beyond my budget, I could stick with my home resorts, which by no means are comparable, or without complaints search for another place for my vacation. I choose to pay the fees and enjoy.
 

Eric B

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Hate to say it, but I agree. They run a great resort. It’s nice having the option of exchanging in at a decent price as well as using my membership with Vidanta. I know what I’m getting and they give more value in how you’re treated if you pay more. It’s all a matter of one’s own value judgement.
 

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For some reason I have a feeling that Vidanta has thoroughly evaluated their decision to change the resort fee structure and this won't be their downfall. They seem to have made a lot of changes over the years and still seem to be thriving.

With regards to the changes in fees, I'll probably get a lot of grief for stating my opinion but here it goes.

I too, like others, am not overjoyed by the increase in the fees but have to step back and look realistically what I am getting. I've read here where folks were upset when the resort fee went from $75/week for some trades to the $11/pp/day. This applied to my II trade June. (Attending the presentation it reverted to $75/week plus the other discounts offered). Wow! Even without the presentation it still would have worked out to be whole $154/week plus home resort maintenance fees. I was able to use certificates so no maintenance fees were added. For 2 people in GB or GL one bedroom I didn't think that was too bad.

My upcoming February trade through II shows fees of $30/pp or for 2 it comes out to $420/week. From what I've read here new fees are now going up to $630/week for a 1br. My thinking is, for what I am getting, it is still worth it. The quality of the resort, the service and the overall ambiance of the resort for what turns out to be $90/night in fees. If I included an annual home resort maintenance fee of maybe $600 for the trade, it still works out to $1230/week or $175/night for a one bedroom GL. What would a luxury 1br resort hotel cost?

I randomly looked online at the Holiday Inn in Cancun and for a February week next year one could get a HOTEL room for $1,431 per week. Would it compare? Not in my book.

I guess I can understand that some people get upset when they purchased a timeshare resort for $1.00 on Ebay (as I have several) and pay a low maintenance fee of perhaps $600/week and expect to get a luxury resort for what was $675/week. We all played the system. For me though, for what I am getting even with the increases the cost IMHO is worth the expense. If it wasn't, or beyond my budget, I could stick with my home resorts, which by no means are comparable, or without complaints search for another place for my vacation. I choose to pay the fees and enjoy.

It would, IMO, be more palatable, if they also didn't restrict access (seems to be RM location only--for now).

Scenario 1 (2BR GL)
So my *current* cost if I exchanged via SFX (this is my MF for my Hilton I deposit, plus the booking fee/guest cert, SFX exchange fee and $300 GL uplift and "free" 2 BR upgrade) is:
$1047.
Tack on the $75 SFX fee = $1,122.00
Still not bad, but then I have no ability to use GL pool (which is the nicest benefit), beach club, or other things Vidanta restricts (again, RM location only). That's a no-go for me.

Scenario 2 (2BR GL):
Let's pretend SFX doesn't have the $75 fee and it's the same RCI/II fee of $1,050.
Ouch, then we're talking $2,100 or thereabouts, again, without "full" access. At that point, IMO, I'm better off renting from an owner. Or staying elsewhere. The resort is nice, but not perfect (no hot water in building #1 in 3 rooms during the week we stayed and someone else had the same issue a year later). Definitely a no go. More money than option #1 obviously by a huge chunk. Way more than what I consider the resort to be worth especially when access is restricted.

Scenario 3 (2BR GL):
If I book via RCI, then my cost is quite a bit higher (and I can't get into GL at RM via RCI), but let's pretend I could.
$1,240 for the RCI fee and my MF/HGVC points.
And then tack on the $1,050 in fee-fees.
Now we're at $2,300 almost. (and no access to most GL things - RM only).

Definitely better to rent from an owner.

The only difference, for me, for NV is that Vidanta doesn't (as yet) restrict access if you're exchanging.

Personally when we go in January, I find NV water temps/water clarity to not be very good (vs. the RM). The resort was very poorly run when I last went (lots of issues, they just didn't seem very organized, etc.) Especially when compared to RM (we're spoiled, what can we say). Not to mention for me, on the Northeast, the plane tickets are almost 2x more expensive to get to PVR vs. CUN.

At $2500 for a week, even for a 2 BR, that's too rich for my blood. I can get 2 vacations (almost) for that, so we're frugal/cheap. haha.

Now, if that was including AI fees, then it'd be a diff. story. :)


Although many valid points are brought up (maybe getting rid of the 1-in-whatever rules is increasing occupancy?), maybe the folks that bought into GL were complaining that it was cheaper to exchange (again, valid). Although there's a few times it's cheaper for me to exchange back into Hilton vs. booking directly (although now RCI is charging some fees for HGVC trades, but I don't recall if an owner gets zinged those fees), so it's not unusual for exchanges to be cheaper, IMO.

I think NV will probably be the next location that they restrict access as the new park will probably increase occupancy.

All conjecture of course.

It'll be interesting to see if they back off on the fees, or restrictions. I'm betting they won't for at least another year or two.

We'll have to re-visit this in say, 2019 and see what's happened.

On the plus side, there's a few choices for non-AI in the various areas that are pretty decent. We don't go every year anymore to Vidanta (For example, I'd rather stay elsewhere in Cabo than the Grand Mayan).

Or maybe I'll punish myself with another MSC cruise (haha).
 

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I get it. Vidanta has die hard fans, and I loved those spectacular Nuevo Vallarta Grand Luxxe 3BR Spa and 4BR Residence Club suites that we've stayed in, and the resort was very nice.

My issue is with the high mandatory fees imposed by Vidanta when you book through the exchange companies. I own at Harborside @ Atlantis, where admittance to the Aquaventure water park (valued at well over $100pp/day) is included with every exchange. So when a family of eight stays in my suite, they enjoy $1,000/day worth of free access to Atlantis entertainment, Aquaventure, The Dig, shuttles, etc. Someone who uses their $500 MF timeshare to exchange into my unit through Interval does not have to pay anything extra to Harborside (other than a nightly room tax to the govt). I don't have any problems with that - they got a great trade! I think that's how exchanging should work.

I'm on an exchange right now in the Four Seasons Residence Club. Our suite is beautiful, the service is impeccable, they have an excellent program for kids from 9am-5pm, I could go on and on. I do not have to pay ANY extra fees here (even the kids club is free). It's a great exchange for me!

So, my beef is that I don't like resorts that pile on ridiculous fees like Vidanta has done, and I don't want to see it become the new norm in the timeshare business. This is a simple case of developers lining their pockets with a new revenue stream.
 

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Someone who uses their $500 MF timeshare to exchange into my unit through Interval does not have to pay anything extra to Harborside (other than a nightly room tax to the govt). I don't have any problems with that - they got a great trade! I think that's how exchanging should work.

Actually, I don't think that is the way timesharing should work. For an owner of a luxury resort that pays $2000 MF, they should be able to trade for units roughly that same level of luxury or lower if they choose. However, IMHO, the timeshare system shouldn't allow owners of lower level units ($500 or so) to be able to grab a $2000 unit in an even trade. Like units should trade for roughly like units.

Take my case, I own the 2 bedroom villa (including free golf) and I never use all my weeks. Logically I could and should be able to rent them (including the golf) myself but I really can't easily as long as exchangers can easily get in with a low fee. I believe the resort fees should be put at the right level so exchangers are getting a fair deal and owners are also. I am looking now at the possibility of renting my units myself - at least, I now have a shot at success.

With that said, people whose home resort is of equal value as Grand Luxxe are not getting a fair deal with the high resort fees at Vidanta. They are paying their own high MF and then more - definitely not fair. No way would I do that.

Mike
 

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Actually, I don't think that is the way timesharing should work. For an owner of a luxury resort that pays $2000 MF, they should be able to trade for units roughly that same level of luxury or lower if they choose. However, IMHO, the timeshare system shouldn't allow owners of lower level units ($500 or so) to be able to grab a $2000 unit in an even trade. Like units should trade for roughly like units.

Take my case, I own the 2 bedroom villa (including free golf) and I never use all my weeks. Logically I could and should be able to rent them (including the golf) myself but I really can't easily as long as exchangers can easily get in with a low fee. I believe the resort fees should be put at the right level so exchangers are getting a fair deal and owners are also. I am looking now at the possibility of renting my units myself - at least, I now have a shot at success.

With that said, people whose home resort is of equal value as Grand Luxxe are not getting a fair deal with the high resort fees at Vidanta. They are paying their own high MF and then more - definitely not fair. No way would I do that.

Mike


Is Registry Collection supposed to be a level playing field with like-kind resorts? Are exchangers using RC charged the same RCI resort fees by Vidanta? If so, then that would seem unfair, if the assumption is that high-end like kind resorts trade in RC.
 

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Actually, I don't think that is the way timesharing should work. For an owner of a luxury resort that pays $2000 MF, they should be able to trade for units roughly that same level of luxury or lower if they choose. However, IMHO, the timeshare system shouldn't allow owners of lower level units ($500 or so) to be able to grab a $2000 unit in an even trade. Like units should trade for roughly like units.

Take my case, I own the 2 bedroom villa (including free golf) and I never use all my weeks. Logically I could and should be able to rent them (including the golf) myself but I really can't easily as long as exchangers can easily get in with a low fee. I believe the resort fees should be put at the right level so exchangers are getting a fair deal and owners are also. I am looking now at the possibility of renting my units myself - at least, I now have a shot at success.

With that said, people whose home resort is of equal value as Grand Luxxe are not getting a fair deal with the high resort fees at Vidanta. They are paying their own high MF and then more - definitely not fair. No way would I do that.

Mike

That’s a perspective that makes a lot of sense for owner-to-owner exchanges. Particularly when a Vidanta owner or an equivalent one elsewhere deposits a week they’ve paid the full freight for to the resort. The problem is that there are a lot of developer weeks that get deposited for which the hotel side, at least at Vidanta, wants to cover their costs. Additionally, they don’t really keep them separate from each other and an owner using one for one of the big exchange systems doesn’t really pick which week the reservation is for and make it available (at least for GL with Registry-I haven’t deposited a Vidanta week elsewhere because of the high cost and the recognition that I can do a lot better with a low MF TS. I haven’t gone the route of offering direct exchange weeks here, though I think that would be a better option because of the perks I get for the cost at Vidanta, but I haven’t been to many others that compare yet, so I’m not sure what I’d take in exchange.

The flip side of it is that I recognize I could find less expensive ways to go down there on an exchange, though in smaller units with resort fees, so I don’t have high hopes for rental. I did buy at a level I can afford and enjoy the perks that come with vacationing there on my own dime. I may try the direct exchange route in the future though; depositing with Registry is ok because I get 2 for 1 weeks there and the options seem decent, though it’s getting to be more Wyndham PR units as time goes by.
 

Eric B

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Is Registry Collection supposed to be a level playing field with like-kind resorts? Are exchangers using RC charged the same RCI resort fees by Vidanta? If so, then that would seem unfair, if the assumption is that high-end like kind resorts trade in RC.

I thought it was supposed to be a level playing field prior to the recent resort fee announcement for Vidanta. Not sure how much they’ll charge yet. Should be able to find out next month.
 

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What are current extra fees on top of regular exchange fees? Are both RCI and II exchangers being asked to pay high "mordidas"? What about other smaller exchange companies...any without the new exorbitant fees?
 

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What are current extra fees on top of regular exchange fees? Are both RCI and II exchangers being asked to pay high "mordidas"? What about other smaller exchange companies...any without the new exorbitant fees?

According to posts in the similar thread about the Vidanta resort fee for RCI exchanges
SFX & ICE are still $ 75 .

The fees vary by Vidanta location . Remember also that 25% is “ rebated “ back at check out
against room & restaurant charges .

I have RCI weeks & the TPU cost that is charged is quite reasonable .

The total $ cost / including resort fees are (now ) in line with owner MF equivalent for a week .
 

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There are several threads about the new resort fees. You must now pay exhorbitantly high fees of $30pp per day (compared to say a Hilton daily fee of $25 per unit) to Vidanta when trading in through RCI and Interval, for essentially nothing extra at the resort. Even with the new fees, exchangers have limited access to Grand Luxxe amenities in the Riviera Maya complex. But, if Vidanta can get exchangers to pay the fees directly to them, it's good for their bottom line - but a very bad trend for us.

Vidanta seems to be targeting exchangers with low cost ownerships/methods to visit their resorts. Perhaps Vidanta sales research discovered these exchangers are the easiest to impress and convert into owners?
 
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Eric B

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There are several threads about the new resort fees. You must now pay exhorbitantly high fees of $30pp per day (compared to say a Hilton daily fee of $25 per unit) to Vidanta after trading in through RCI and Interval, for essentially nothing extra at the resort. Even with the new fees, exchangers have limited access to Grand Luxxe amenities in the Riviera Maya complex. But, if Vidanta can get exchangers to pay the fees directly to them, it's good for their bottom line - but a very bad trend for us.

Vidanta seems to be targeting exchangers with low cost ownerships/methods to visit their resorts. Perhaps Vidanta sales research discovered these exchangers are the easiest to impress and convert into owners?

$30 pppd was the old one; it’s per unit depending on size now ($1050 per week for a 2 BR).
 

lauramiddl

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I just checked II for Grand Luxxe RM availability. II had 1br and studio sightings through early December. For both Residences and Jungle, resort fees were listed $30 pp, with 25% resort credit, not the new unit size fees. So based on Eric B's report, maybe some II members have one set of fees, $30 pp/day, and another set of members has the fee based on unit size? I'm searching with Worldmark 3br float, fwiw.

Note: I'm sorry to be redundant. I think there's two threads going and realize that I posted the same thing twice.
 
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PamMo

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Their fee changes make my head spin! Like Lauramiddl posted, the fees have gone back (for today at least) to the $30/day per adult, $15/day for children at Grand Luxxe when exchanging through Interval.
 

youppi

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Actually, I don't think that is the way timesharing should work. For an owner of a luxury resort that pays $2000 MF, they should be able to trade for units roughly that same level of luxury or lower if they choose. However, IMHO, the timeshare system shouldn't allow owners of lower level units ($500 or so) to be able to grab a $2000 unit in an even trade. Like units should trade for roughly like units.

Take my case, I own the 2 bedroom villa (including free golf) and I never use all my weeks. Logically I could and should be able to rent them (including the golf) myself but I really can't easily as long as exchangers can easily get in with a low fee. I believe the resort fees should be put at the right level so exchangers are getting a fair deal and owners are also. I am looking now at the possibility of renting my units myself - at least, I now have a shot at success.

With that said, people whose home resort is of equal value as Grand Luxxe are not getting a fair deal with the high resort fees at Vidanta. They are paying their own high MF and then more - definitely not fair. No way would I do that.

Mike
May be they could charge the difference between their MF and the MF of what people used to get GL in place of not permitted the trade as you suggest. Like that, everybody would pay the GL MF whatever they use to exchange.
Ex: if GL 2 bdrm MF = $2000 and somebody get it with a unit at $300 then the resort fees would be $1700. A unit used with a MF of $1500 would pay $500 as resort fees.
 
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