WEEKS owners - OPINIONS - new RCI Program

[DeniseM]

This is where you can air it out, ladies and gentlemen - BUT please remember the TUG rule of courtesy.

 

[crazyhorse]

I know much of this will have been discussed before on other threads.
But to recap some of the area.

If we take the RCI example as factual, it gives a couple of examples of exchange values, deposits and surpluses of 5,10,15,20 and 30 "lite points".

First of all, again if factual, this goes against the idea that there could be 50 odd exchange bands. There only appear to be 5 bands shown.

Opinion- these may be

first 0.001 to 5.00 type exchanges (the dogs and others) all rounded up to make the 5 band
next the 5.01 to 10.00 types all rounded up to make the 10 band.
next the 10.01 to 15.0 types all rounded up to make the 15 band.
next the 15.01 to 20.0 types all rounded up to make the 20 band.
next the 20.01 to 30.0 types all rounded up to make the 30 band.

This is only an opinion, and I guess the bands could go up to a 50 band, and there may also be an intermediate 25 band, and a 35 band, and a 45 band.
Making 10 bands in all.

Is such a simplified system workable? Is there enough clear space here in relative Trading Value between " the dogs" and the most desirable resort in the most desirable timeshare interval?

Clearly it should be simpler to administrate, (avoids exact numerical values) and still possible for a member to combine say 2 weeks to jump up several bands, or use a leftover 5 "lite point" value to use against a "dog" or to combine to enable exchange into the band above your own resort.

With the 10 bands, if you trade against the resorts in your own band, this will keep RCI`s principle of allowing weeks exchange only against resorts of similar quality, but at the same time the use of residual or combined "lite points" will allow exchange into "dogs" if you want them, or exchange into the better resort options.

If you don`t wish to be bothered with "lite points" extra facilities, normal trading in the band of your own week is still possible but the choice may be limited.

 

[MichaelColey]

A fairly new member (Dave599) has posted quite a few details about the new system that he learned from a friend who works at RCI. The details he has provided have been very specific and I feel they're credible. He has specifically said that the numeric trading value will be whole numbers from 5 through 60, so 5, 6, 7, ..., 58, 59 and 60.

Some of the other details he has posted:

* There will be a fee to combine deposits, possibly $79.
* The RCI web site will be closed from 11/12 - 11/14 and the new site will roll out on 11/15.
* There will be a calculator on RCI that will show you the trading power you can get (before you deposit).
* Trading value will be whole numbers from 5 through 60. Most (70%) will be 10 through low 20s.
* Group priorities will still work. Combining weeks within the same group will retain group priority.
* Last minute inventory will only take a trading power of 5.
* Combined deposits and/or change will be good for 2 years.
* PFD can only be done with whole, uncombined weeks. If you combine or use a week and get change back, you can't PFD the resulting deposit.
* Banding is likely going away (or technically switching to 56 bands: 5-60).

 

[crazyhorse]

Michael:I see the posts you refer to now.

Dave599 did refer to whole numbers in his post of the 22 Oct, and thus the many resulting bands from 5 through 60.

However in his last post on the 31st Oct, he writes

"My feeling is bands will not exist it will be an exact number system"

and referring to a fee,

"there will be a fee it could be 69 or 99 or 109 it was my friends best guess on internal rumors I don't think she has be "officially" told yet."

So we have nothing definite yet regarding bands.

I can visualise RCI shutting down the system for a few days before the 15th in order to load up and run the new website. Staff will also be needed to be trained up to help telephone enquiries and provide assistance on exchanges.

They will also need training on how to update the very large database of weeks in the inventory.

That is if they haven`t been trained up yet. I would envisage some leaks regarding this before it is all up and running.

 

[MichaelColey]

The post I quoted was in the "facts" thread, but my response is more of an opinion so I'm responding in this thread.

Now say your tiger is worth 58 points, you will have change over when you exchange into a 56 point resort, but this change is worth only 2 "lite points".

As you wouldn`t be able to get anything for these 2 points, such a system would be less useful to you than the coarse 5 point model. It would also mean practically every exchange that was made by members would result in "change" left over and in my opinion would be a little crazy.

I agree. These small amounts of change will likely be fairly worthless. The one exception would be if you have another trade that you would like to do but you're just a little short. Say you're going to Orlando and you have a deposit that's worth 19 which would get you into a ton of places there, but you really want to go to Animal Kingdom Lodge and it takes 21 points. In that case, it might be worth a modest fee to combine the change with your other deposit.

In any case, there's not much difference for that example between the current situation, a 56 band scenario, and "rounded to a multiple of 5" scenario. In the current situation, you would get nothing back from that trade. In a 56 band scenario, you would get 2TP in change that you probably wouldn't use. In a "rounded to a multiple of 5" scenario, they would likely be in the same band so no change back.

Perhaps RCI might consider combining any change that has a TP under 5 into another deposit for free (or a significantly lower fee), so that at least they can be used.

The other thing a 56 band scenario would do would be to force us to consider which deposit would be best to exchange. If I'm looking at an exchange into a unit with a TP of 26, I might be better off using a deposit with a TP of 31 rather than one with 27, as I know I could use the 5.

Also, if I have a deposit with a trading power of 17 and am looking at exchanging into a 1BR for 15 or a 2BR for 17, there's no reason not to go with the 2BR.

 

[bnoble]

Perhaps RCI might consider combining any change that has a TP under 5 into another deposit for free

You're a funny guy.

 

["Roger"]

On the FACTS/QUESTIONS board, someone asked the question

"How will you feel about having to pay a fee to use that change back?"

To tell you the truth, I am puzzled by the question. Suppose, for example, I make an exchange from tier J to tier F? (I want to avoid speculating about how many "bands" there are.) In other words, I make what RCI considers a trade down. Now let us compare what happens in the old system vs. the new one.

Current Weeks system: Once I have made the exchange, that's it - I am out of options. Whatever extra value I had for having a better week is lost.

Now I am trying to figure out how might I be "worse off" (?) within this new system (and this is why the question puzzles me).

New "Points Lite" system: Admittedly, if I want to use the "change" back, apparently I will have to pay an extra fee. I might, for example, use that "change" in combination with my deposit next year to make a trade up. Yes, I might be charged an extra fee, but under the current Weeks system, I do not even have that option. I simply would never get that chance to trade up. So what have I lost?

Another option, would be to either use that "change" by itself or in combination with other "change" to make an extra exchange? The thing to note here is whether I do that or not (and incur extra fees) is totally up to me. If I just ignore the "change" (let it go to waste), I am no worse off that if I had made the same trade in the Weeks system. (Remember, that in the current Weeks system, I have no further options but to accept the loss of part of the value of my unit.)

Perhaps some people will be adamantly opposed to ever paying RCI one red cent of extra fees. They will refuse to ever use any extra change that they receive. In doing so, they are no worse off than currently. But should they dictate that the rest of the owners are never even be given the option?

The bottom line is that the Points Lite system gives people added flexibility. Whether people want to use it or not is up to them. If they don't, they haven't lost anything over what they had before - at least, not with regard to when they make an exchange downward.

 

[MichaelColey]

Current Weeks system: Once I have made the exchange, that's it - I am out of options. Whatever extra value I had for having a better week is lost.

Now I am trying to figure out how might I be "worse off" (?) within this new system (and this is why the question puzzles me).

If you're trading down, you're definitely not any worse off and likely will be beter off. If you're currently trading up (within your band), you'll lose some advantages from the current system. I have a feeling that most of my trades are "up", so I'm probably in that category. (I recently trading a 1BR Branson unit for a 2BR DVC Wilderness Lodge [more than 45 days out], for example!) But I think some of the other benefits from the changes will more than offset any losses I see in this area. (And it's not even confirmed that trading up within a band goes away, although I think it's very likely.)

Perhaps some people will be adamantly opposed to ever paying RCI one red cent of extra fees.

Perhaps some people are just opposed to anything RCI does.

 

[Carolinian]

Trading within a range or band was what has offered flexibility. Going to an exact number ends that flexibility. Having to tie up more than one week, including all of one and a few points lite from another to get one trade also destroys the flexibility of what you can do with the second week. You have to use it for an RCI trade, and you can no longer use it yourself, rent it, let a friend use it, exchange it with another exchange company, etc.

The RCI Happies always see everything RCI does as giving more ''flexibility'' but in reality all of those changes really just change the TYPE of flexibility involved. For many of us, who like clean one for one trades, the flexibilities lost are far more damaging than any flexibilities gained.

Of course, we have seen dueling RCI insiders or purported insiders in these threads, with one saying it will be an exact number system and the other saying it will be bands. One of them is wrong. The band system would certainly be less negative than the exact number system because the band system at least preserves some of the flexibility of the old system.

 

[miamidan]

Carol,

I get what you are saying. It seems you like a socialist exchange economy where the people who bring the best exchange deposits to any exchange company subsidize those members that bring the lesser desired inventory. In the system that you support there is nothing that supports the free market or inspires people to bring great inventory to the system.

I favor a system that rewards those that bring high demand inventory to the system more than those that bring average or low demand inventory to an exchange system.

I don't know what the exchange system will look like on November 15th but, I can't help but, think that it will be better. I know of no other business where you make transactions but, don't know the value of your currency or the cost of comparative items.

I get that you hate the changes made at RCI. I get that nothing they do will ever please you. I can not believe the amount of effort you put into a program/company that you dislike so much.

With that said again I am looking forward to seeing all inventory, potentially making multiple exchanges for one deposit and knowing the value of various pieces of inventory.

 

[zazz]

Carol,

I get what you are saying. It seems you like a socialist exchange economy where the people who bring the best exchange deposits to any exchange company subsidize those members that bring the lesser desired inventory. In the system that you support there is nothing that supports the free market or inspires people to bring great inventory to the system.

I favor a system that rewards those that bring high demand inventory to the system more than those that bring average or low demand inventory to an exchange system.

I don't know what the exchange system will look like on November 15th but, I can't help but, think that it will be better. I know of no other business where you make transactions but, don't know the value of your currency or the cost of comparative items.

I get that you hate the changes made at RCI. I get that nothing they do will ever please you. I can not believe the amount of effort you put into a program/company that you dislike so much.

With that said again I am looking forward to seeing all inventory, potentially making multiple exchanges for one deposit and knowing the value of various pieces of inventory.

Well without getting into socialism vs the free market, I agree with this. It sounds like a lot of people have been getting pretty sweet exchanges over the years, upgrades from what they owned. Under a pure "like for like" system, thats not going to be available as often unless you book last minute.

I get the impression that the ability to upgrade from a unit at the bottom of the trade band to a unit at the top of the band has become a bit of an entitlement. People have been doing it for so long that it has become a right.

But I suppose that a person with a really top quality week to exchange may chafe at the thought of losing exchanges to someone with a slightly lesser week, someone who knows the RCI system and can exploit it.

The new system will be better for me as I will be able to see what's out there and what it will cost. If the new system doesn't work for me, I am sure there will be other options. I bring crappy weeks and expect crap in return. But its better than letting a few Wyndham points go to waste.

 

[MichaelColey]

One thing that the new system will bring in will be new way to use low value traders. If weeks are cheap enough, it may be more economical to combine two bad weeks rather than pay higher maintenance fees for a single week.

Assuming the fee to combine is $80 and that the trading powers range from 5-60... If you have a dog week with a $100 MF (my UDI can get multiple weeks for about that), you can combine two 5's and get a 10 for $280. Then you can combine two 10's and get a 20 for $640. That's assuming they're only worth 5. If they're worth 10, you end up with a 40 for $640. A 40 is supposed to pull Manhattan Club (and they pay over $2000 in maintenance fees).

I'm anxious to see the trading powers of my various deposits and other weeks from my resorts to figure out which is really the best value.

 

[krmlaw]

I guess im just nervous that RCI will change our trading power before they roll out the new program.

Right now my top traders can both pull DVC, 2 beds, any time of the year.

What happens if they no longer?

Thats what im most worried about.

 

[bnoble]

What happens? You adjust.

Even if this program were to never happen, the chance *always* exists that your trading power can be re-evaluated. c.f. 5/30/09, or South Africa's Black Sunday. Nothing is ever guaranteed going forward.

 

[MichaelColey]

It would be a relatively minor adjustment, too.

Assuming you're usually trading up (and TUG members are probably much more likely to be doing that), you can still trade up but it'll cost you part of another deposit. Maybe you have a 25 and usually trade into a 30 and they both happen to be in the same band. Instead of being able to do that every year, you would just be able to do it 5 times in 6 years, plus you'll pay 5 combine fees (probably around $400) over that time.

But the new system opens up other possibilities, too.

Extending the example, what if the unit you really wanted was a 35 and it's currently in the next higher band. Today, you could never get into it. Under the new system, you could combine two 25s and get into it, and still have 15 left over for other exchanges. Combine 10 of that with another 25 and you can get into the nicer property again. Use the last 5 for a last minute trip. Instead of getting three 25s (or trading up into 30s), you get two 35s and one last minute trip.

The new system provides far more flexibility.

 

[Carolinian]

While I am from Carolina, my name is not Carol.

What is it about bands that you just don't get? Bands don't mean that anyone can get the best deposits. They just simply recognize the fact that there is no realistic way to get the value of any timeshare down to a precise number that is absolutely valid against all other timeshares, and the best way to adjust for this fact is to allow weeks of roughly similar values to trade even with each other. This does not mean that an offseason week in Lonesome Prarie, Kansas should be able to trade for any week in London or New York, for example.

BTW, the only currency involved will be the extra currency you will have to pay RCI in fees.

Carol,

I get what you are saying. It seems you like a socialist exchange economy where the people who bring the best exchange deposits to any exchange company subsidize those members that bring the lesser desired inventory. In the system that you support there is nothing that supports the free market or inspires people to bring great inventory to the system.

I favor a system that rewards those that bring high demand inventory to the system more than those that bring average or low demand inventory to an exchange system.

I don't know what the exchange system will look like on November 15th but, I can't help but, think that it will be better. I know of no other business where you make transactions but, don't know the value of your currency or the cost of comparative items.

I get that you hate the changes made at RCI. I get that nothing they do will ever please you. I can not believe the amount of effort you put into a program/company that you dislike so much.

With that said again I am looking forward to seeing all inventory, potentially making multiple exchanges for one deposit and knowing the value of various pieces of inventory.

 

[Carolinian]

What happens? You adjust.

Even if this program were to never happen, the chance *always* exists that your trading power can be re-evaluated. c.f. 5/30/09, or South Africa's Black Sunday. Nothing is ever guaranteed going forward.

. . . and the very best way to adjust is to adjust which exchange company you use. That's why I will no longer be keeping one week at a time in RCI. My two summer UK weeks are being split between DAE and SFX, while I just put my summer OBX week up for rent again. I'll use the rental profits for a hotel based trip in Europe.

 

[miamidan]

While I am from Carolina, my name is not Carol.

What is it about bands that you just don't get? Bands don't mean that anyone can get the best deposits. They just simply recognize the fact that there is no realistic way to get the value of any timeshare down to a precise number that is absolutely valid against all other timeshares, and the best way to adjust for this fact is to allow weeks of roughly similar values to trade even with each other. This does not mean that an offseason week in Lonesome Prarie, Kansas should be able to trade for any week in London or New York, for example.

BTW, the only currency involved will be the extra currency you will have to pay RCI in fees.

Carolina,

I think that companies at some point have to define their values. What other industry does not?

I would imagine that in the new program some will pay more with extra benefits some will pay the same and some will pay more. The great thing is it is a choice.

You say you own in the outerbanks. I believe there is a very wide red season there. Should a week 40 owner(not sure if that is even a red week) get the same value as a week 27 owner? If I were a week 40 owner I would sure hope that I did and if I were a week 27 owner I would certainly hope that I got greater value.

If you shop at wal-mart or any other store you know there are normal prices and then marked down prices. Why would RCI's new points lite system work any differently?

I can't imagine a publicly owned company intentionally starting a program that will drive owners away. If you own prime weeks and can pull out multiple weeks you will probably pay more fees but, gain extra benefits. From what I have read/seen this has been happening in the background previous to this.

I understand bands but, perhaps you don't understand that it is probably prime weeks and not mediocre weeks that prime any exchange system and keep it functioning.

If I can gain better value from any company they will get my expenditures whether it is mcdonalds, Wal Mart, Pottery Barn or the local ballet studio. I have no problem paying more if there is value.

Enjoy your day and I look forward to your open minded discusssions on all things timeshare! :rofl:

 

[miamidan]

. . . and the very best way to adjust is to adjust which exchange company you use. That's why I will no longer be keeping one week at a time in RCI. My two summer UK weeks are being split between DAE and SFX, while I just put my summer OBX week up for rent again. I'll use the rental profits for a hotel based trip in Europe.

Good for you enjoy your trips with them!!!!!:whoopie:

 

[Dori]

Point values of resorts for New RCI rollout

I just spoke to my resort, Harbour Inn, and got the point values for my weeks. The blue studio is 9 and my red Christmas week is 17. Yikes! It looks like we will be going nowhere with values so low. In the past, we have had decent trades into places like Orlando and LV, with these weeks. We have owned since 1992.

Does anyone know the values at their resorts? if so, we might want to post here, so we can get a feel for what's in store.

Thanks.

Dori

 

[siesta]

I've read that within 45 days, when trade power is usually waived, that exchanges will have a value of 5. Also you can combine deposits, so you really have a 26 on your hands, which I would imagine could pull something pretty decent. But we will see.

 

[MichaelColey]

That sounds reasonable to me. A blue studio week in the middle of winter in Canada. I'm a bit surprised that it gets a 9. As for the Christmas week, looking at II's Demand Index, it looks like week 51 is pretty average, while 52 is a strong week. I'm not sure why, but based on that I would think 17 for a studio would be fairly good.

Also, I just searched for Harbour Inn for December 2011, and I see 12 units (up to 2BR) and even my worst trader (that only sees 55k units) can see all 12. The studios are available in Extra Vacations for $323.99 earlier in December and $521.99 for weeks 51 or 52, so I think the ratio between 9 and 17 are about right.

I suspect that many Orlando and Vegas weeks will have comparably low trading powers, so you'll probably still be able to get decent exchanges there.

I'm anxious for 1/15 so I can see what my weeks get.

 

[WINSLOW]

I guess im just nervous that RCI will change our trading power before they roll out the new program.

Right now my top traders can both pull DVC, 2 beds, any time of the year.

What happens if they no longer?

Thats what im most worried about.

I have an opposite question

Right now DVC doesn't have a real RCI account. How will RCI's change effect a DVC deposit?

DVC should be rated high, will RCI or DVC give a DVC owner a "Point Lite" Value? or will we just get the same one for one trade?

We have DVC and have never traded in RCI, but if we were to get a value where we could get multiple down trades maybe more DVCers would deposit weeks.

Just wondering how anyone thinks DVC deposits might work?

Thanks
Crystal

 

[rickandcindy23]

Dori, they said trading power won't change. I have a blue Colorado week, 2 bedroom, and I can see some 3 bedrooms at the Hiltons (OLCC, too) in Orlando with the week during off-season. Does that mean my week has good trading power? No, it means Orlando has too much inventory in the off-season months, and Hiltons' 1-in-4 rules create an issue with trading power that makes my blue week look good.

Maybe they will drop the 1-in-4 with this new system. Seems like the smart thing to do.

The new system will definitely take size into consideration. I used to see identical inventory between my red studio and my red two bedroom, same week deposited. Now I see a little less with the studio.

 

[Keep Traveling]

I don't believe this will affect corporate accounts like DVC, Hilton, Worldmark.

KT