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What to buy, help for a newbie (survey)

Discussion in 'New to Timesharing? Look Here!' started by RichterRising, Jun 13, 2018.

  1. RichterRising

    RichterRising Guest

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    1) Is there a vacation destination you wish to visit most of the time or on a regular basis? if so where?
    Maui, have stayed at the westin kaanapali hotel twice, the ocean resort villas north once.
    Wife would die happy coming back to north every 2 years for life.

    2) Do you want to visit your home resort at least half the time, or do you want to trade more than half the time?
    More than half, probably atleast 75%

    3) What are your 5 top trade destinations?
    Not too fussed, other places would be more once in a lifetime bucket destinations. Bora bora, fiji, new zealand. Europe maybe the carribean. Most likely disney world (kids)

    4) How many people do you usually travel with?
    Usually 2 but within next 5 year will be bringing 2 kiddos (currently 5 and 7)

    5) Can you travel any time, or are you locked into the school schedule?
    We are bad parents and think kids can make up school work while on vacation, so not locked but wouldnt mind advantages to following school if not exorbitant.

    6) Can you make firm plans 12 or more mos. in advance?
    Yes

    7) Can you vacation for a full week at a time?
    Yes, not worth flying for less than 7 days, in the future 10 day vacations would be ideal.

    8) What level of accommodations do you prefer on a scale of 1 to 5 stars?
    I believe we are 3-4 stars, fancy isnt required for us, we are more interested in features. Order of preference would be flexible checkin/out, a "not a mini" refrigerator,

    9) How much can you afford to spend upfront, without financing? I would finance either way but budget is preferably under 10k upfront.

    10) How much can you afford to spend every year for a maintenance fee that will come due right after Christmas, and increase each year?
    1.5k a year, if my limited research is correct i think i want an eoy which is either half mf a year or mf eoy

    11) Are you a detail oriented planner?
    Is this activities? We will book our manadories (never more than half the trip) and let the rest happen or not

    12) Do you understand that once you buy a timeshare, it may be very difficult to sell or give away, and you are responsible for all fees, until you do?
    Yes. We are in our thirties

    *note: just got back from a stay at westin korvN on maui, stayed in a studio and liked pretty much everything about the experience.
     
  2. taterhed

    taterhed TUG Member

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    Marriott's Grande Vista
    Worldmark x2
    So. You just talked yourself squarely into a Westin Kaanapali.

    It's easy to do.....we are under contract for a WKORV OFD. Here's my advice:
    • You can easily buy an EOY WKORV/N for your price range. Ocean view should be possible, Island views at the North aren't bad and are cheaper.....I'd probably go with a South OV. Many threads here debate the issue of N vs S.
    • Maintenance fees are around $2400 on the south and $2800 on the North (2br OV/IV). Bigger units south, smaller units north. Lower MF's south, higher MF's north.
    • Size: 1br units at WKORV have the highest MF/Square foot ration of all. They have good views, but MF's are high. Buy-in is lower....but not ridiculously low. Buy a 2br.
    • 2BR L/O. The two-bedroom lock-off has some great features: Use one side for one week (1br or studio), both sides for 1 week (together or separately) or use the weeks consecutively (1br first week, studio second week for a total of two weeks). You can also bank SO's or use SO's inside of 18 mos to book at other resorts or other sizes etc. RENT: These units rent pretty well (YMMV) you could always partially fund your unit by renting out the studio.
    • Ressies: You must be very detail oriented and book promptly at the opening of the window for your unit. Timestamp determines room preference. High demand weeks book quickly. It shouldn't be impossible if you're on your game at 12 mos prior.
    • Prices appear to be amazingly low right now. Check the Starwood ROFR thread to see what has been passing. My advice is check those prices and get going.
    • Remember: you want to buy for 2020 first use.....it's too late to book Hawaii for 2019 by the time you could close.

    Hope this helps........others will reply.
     
  3. Passepartout

    Passepartout TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    ^^^^What he said^^^^
     
  4. vacationtime1

    vacationtime1 TUG Member

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    I also agree with Rob; you are a prime candidate to vacation at Westin Ka'anapali. But I suggest differently:

    If you are willing to spend the money, buy an eoy OF ("every other year" "ocean front") unit at WKORV or WKORVN; the views are stunning. The buy-in will be $10-15K; the annual maintenance fee will be about $1,400 - $1,500 (paid annually for bi-annual use). The "deluxe" WKORV-OF units are definitely larger and nicer, but the MF's are about 28% higher.

    If you want to save some money, buy a 2bd platinum unit at Westin Kierland and trade into Ka'anapali at the eight month mark using StarOptions (see https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...-to-timesharing-or-starwood-start-here.63224/ if that is unclear). The buy-in will be about $7,500; the annual MF's will be about $850. Somewhat less certain but considerably less expensive.

    (full disclosure: we own WKORV-OF and consider it the crown jewel of our collection)
     
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  5. RichterRising

    RichterRising Guest

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    Thank you for the replies, im definetly very intrigued with korv-N. Im a newbie diving through the forums. My goal at this point would be to get into something for 2020 use and present to the wife next may as a 10th anniversary present.

    After the developer sales numbers at nanea obviously all those price range quotes sound super attractive.

    I browsed redweek just enough to try to get a handle on what i dont know about this process.

    A few questions:
    For us OF, OV are nice but not a huge selling point by their utility in our use. The forums have made it seem like there is major advantages when u talk about a time u want to rent it or want to trade to a different resort. This would be rare for us, most likely only to show the kids something new in the future or experience something specific for us. What would be the best place to look at (rental site or post) that would help me understand what OF does for me in the long term (20-40 years) that OV or IV doesnt.

    When i look at redweek or elsewhere trying to compare listings, what is important to make sure is in the deal? Again new and still finding things (links are great), do i need to confirm the deed is listed in certain exchanges or option programs already?

    My main thing at this point is trying to understand what i WILL want as the kiddos get older and start joining my wife and myself. They are same gender so having to share a bed or one use a pull out isnt a deal breaker.
    The sales presentation talked about the marriot brand and some cruise lines falling under staroptions this year, is there anything special to make sure what i buy is tied into those new brands?

    Again thanks for the replys
     
  6. taterhed

    taterhed TUG Member

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    Replies in Red:


    A few questions:
    For us OF, OV are nice but not a huge selling point by their utility in our use.
    Ok, so for now, you think island view is fine. Keep in mind, the south resort IV is not something I would buy for long-term use. IMO
    North IV units have superior views and no parking-lot.


    The forums have made it seem like there is major advantages when u talk about a time u want to rent it or want to trade to a different resort. This would be rare for us, most likely only to show the kids something new in the future or experience something specific for us.
    There is. You should not buy in Hawaii (IMO) intending to trade. Any trade out of WKORV is a down-trade. The MF's are much higher than domestic. Additionally, WKORV/N rents pretty easily and generally covers or exceeds MF's. So, better to rent-out the WKORV/N unit and use cash to rent at your choice of vacation spots for a profit. BUT, IV units are less desirable and generally rent slower and for less $$$ than OF or OV.

    What would be the best place to look at (rental site or post) that would help me understand what OF does for me in the long term (20-40 years) that OV or IV doesnt.
    Check the rental listings on Redweek, Tug, VRBO or anywhere else...google is your friend. You'll find that OF listings during peak weeks book quickly. Others....less quickly.

    When i look at redweek or elsewhere trying to compare listings, what is important to make sure is in the deal? Again new and still finding things (links are great), do i need to confirm the deed is listed in certain exchanges or option programs already?
    WKORV/N is pretty straight forward. Unit size, usage (annual/bi-annual, even/odd, fix or fix-float, 1-50 or 52) and first use year are the main factors. Westin has ROFR on the contract and all units are mandatory (Star-Options). All units are enrolled in an Interval International corporate account and SVN Hawaii owners pay an annual VSN fee of $145 plus (HI taxes..). The biggest factor (other than price...which is generally set by market demand and ROFR) first use year and additional costs such as MF's, broker costs, closing fees (must use sellers closing co?) etc.. Starpoints (rewards points) are not available with resales--but they are a poor value and not a loss. There were some funny premium room selection locks sold with WKORV, but I don't think these transfer on resale.

    My main thing at this point is trying to understand what i WILL want as the kiddos get older and start joining my wife and myself. They are same gender so having to share a bed or one use a pull out isnt a deal breaker.
    The units at WKORV/N are all 2br l/o or 1br. For a family of 4, a 1br is doable, if a little tight. VERY tight with teens. A studio is fine with young children, but remember, it's a very nice large efficiency hotel-type room, so not a lot of privacy for Naps etc... (use the closet/bathtub!) If you decide to stay for two weeks (1 week in studio, 1 week in 1bdr, I recommend doing it in that order. Eat-out and go-out the first week (studio) and then expand into the 1br on the second week (buy groceries, sleep more, spend time at resort) IMO

    The sales presentation talked about the marriot brand and some cruise lines falling under staroptions this year, is there anything special to make sure what i buy is tied into those new brands?
    That's the $64,000 question. Marriott is merging with VSE (and more). Will there be changes? Yes. Will they steal your rights? No. Will the changes make your ownership better or worse? Maybe. I would not let this affect my decision. Generally, using your WKORV star-options to stay ANYWHERE else (except HI) is a poor financial decision. NO, there is nothing you can do/not do that may affect this process. I wouldn't hold my breath.

    I'll make some more comments on another post....this one is long enough.

    All the above are my opinions. Some info might be flawed...I'm sure somebody will correct me. Hope it helps....read the VSE sticky threads on this forum.......
     
  7. taterhed

    taterhed TUG Member

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    My answer on 'which unit to buy at WKORV/N' All my humble opinion, I'm sure others will correct me if they disagree or I got something wrong.
    Hope it helps.

    Read the threads here: North vs South Starwood Owner Resources (info) VSE FAQS

    Here is a link to Syed's website and some great info about the units, floorplans etc.. Syed is a well-known, Tug recommended broker. One of several.
    Westin Kaanapali Villas Unit Descriptions Consider calling Syed after you've read-up a bit. Good guy and very knowledgeable.

    Here is my take on OF, OV, IV @ the Westin Kaanapali resorts.

    Aesthetics: OF and OV units at both resorts provide very nice vistas and locations. Especially when compared the some resorts.
    • The OF units at the south resort are really quite spectacular. Huge lanais and 'in your face' ocean vistas. They cost more to purchase, but have retained a good resale value. The OF units at the north are very nice, but are not all equal and have smaller lanais. They also command a premium.
    • The OV units at the south range from ok...(closest to the parking lot, low floors, facing north bldg or restaurant) to very, very good (high floors, closer to beach). The room selection is based on reservation time stamp. The OV units at the north are mostly down the outside of building 7 and look across the park/easement--a matter of personal preference whether you like the view or not, it's pretty good right now.
    • The IV units at the south resort are truly island view. That includes parking lot, road and some less pretty structures. I wouldn't recommend it. The IV units at the north resort are either interior view or south resort/beach exposure. The are far superior (IMO) to the south IV. But, I wouldn't really recommend these either; see below.
    Summary? South Ocean-Front if you can afford it. Spectacular units, great rental, more SO's (176,ooo vs 148k) and bigger. (also see MF's below) If you don't feel you can afford/desire the OF, Second choice would be South Ocean-View. Why? Bigger rooms, lower MF's, lot's of rooms available and easy rental potential. Third? Tie--North Ocean View or North Island View: Good views, no parking lot views, two balconies

    Money: Huge range of pricing from 1br units to ocean front center. We're talking <$5000 to >$35000. (annual)

    • South Ocean Front Center: High acquisition cost ($28-35k ?), but very desirable. Low MF's, big lanais, great lock-off, profitable rental. Likely to appreciate or hold.
    • South Ocean Front deluxe: Medium acquisition cost ($19-27k ?), but very high MF's. Good rental, very large, great to lock-off. Likely to hold.
    • North Ocean Front: Medium acquisition cost ($18-26k ?), higher MF's, smaller units, less premium ocean views, likely to hold.
    • South Ocean View: Lower acquisition cost ($14-17k ?), lower MF's, bigger units, good rental. Likely to hold.
    • Island view units: Low acquisition cost (???), MF's vary by resort, slower rental, variable views, MF's same as OV units....
    Maintenance fees: Posted below. Go up every year. South is lower (not OFD), North is higher. You do the math: larger south rooms and lower MF's or smaller north rooms and higher MF's? It's not that easy, but yet it is. Also, note the 1bdr MF ($2114). Only 1 week of usage/rental and only 1bdr. It's the highest MF/square ft. ratio. I would not buy the 1bdr.


    2018 MF's as published by Syed at AdvantageVacation. Plugged him here...so don't feel too guilty. Hi Syed, thanks for the info.


    Following you will find the annual and bi-ennial 2018 maintenance fees:

    ………………………………………………………………………….........….........….ANNUAL……..BIENNIAL

    2 BEDROOM LOCK OFF DELUXE (OV, IV or OF) ...................$3,351.97 $1,776.57 1550sf

    2 BEDROOM LOCK OFF CENTER (PREMIUM) OCEAN FRONT $2,476.76 $1,338.90 1400sf

    2 BEDROOM LOCK OFF PREMIUM $2,476.76 $1,338.90 1400sf (south)

    1 BEDROOM PREMIUM OCEAN VIEW $2,114.87 $1,157.96 900+sf

    Following you will find the annual and bi-ennial 2018 maintenance fees:

    ……………………………………………………………………….ANNUAL……….BIENNIAL

    2 BEDROOM LOCK OFF $2,723.26 $1,462.15 (1200 sf)



    Figures include the VSN fee, the Hawaii General Excise tax and $10.00 voluntary Ohana PAC fee.



    VSN explanation:

    $145.00 for single week

    $ 50.00 for the second week

    $ 0 for the third week

    Hawaii owners pay the annual VSN fee of $145 plus Hawaii 4.166% General Excise tax in the amount of $6.04 for the first week and the annual VSN fee of $50 plus Hawaii 4.166% General Excise tax in the amount of $2.08 for the second week. There is no GE tax for any additional weeks owned in Hawaii.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
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  8. vacationtime1

    vacationtime1 TUG Member

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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This should be a sticky ^^^^^^^^^^^

    Rob has put a lot of good ideas into the post above. I would re-iterate the advice about never buying a 1bd unit at WKORV (the price/value ratio is lacking) or any IV unit at WKORV (some of the "island" views are views of the parking lot).

    IV at WKORVN is much better, but as I suggested above, you can save a lot of money by buying Kierland and trading into WKORVN.

    Note that Rob's MF's for the properties in the post above are for WKORV and include the VSE fee of approx $150 (payable annually, even if you own eoy). I don't recall the exact MF's on WKORVN, but iirc, they are about $350/yr higher.
     
  9. RichterRising

    RichterRising Guest

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    You guys are amazing. Gonna dive into all of this, read the links and discuss with the wife. Thank you so very much. Out of curiosity is there any resources that track previous sales data of timeshares? Something equivalent to zillow or redfin where i can educate myself quickly to reconginzing a good deal as i monitor your suggestions?
     
  10. silentg

    silentg TUG Review Crew: Expert TUG Member

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    Taterhead, were or are you a school teacher? This post in red reminded me of assignments and tests from High School. Good comments though.
     
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  11. taterhed

    taterhed TUG Member

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    you caught me! I updated and added the WKORVN MF's. I also added the SVN/HI tax info too...... I got interrupted and forgot to finish!!!!!

    I didn't comment on the WKV ownership..... for long term ownership--intending to visit Maui routinely, I think it's less applicable for a first time/new owner. But...you never know!
     
  12. taterhed

    taterhed TUG Member

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    So......here you go......

    VSE ROFR history This links to the (Westin) right of first refusal reports (ROFR). You can read and see what price people were able to purchase units for----or those contracts where Vistana/Sheraton/Westin chose to exercise ROFR and take the contract. Start at the LAST page and work backward. Several very significant LOW price contracts recently passed ROFR: WKORV OFD for $20k and $21K (mine), WKORVN OF $20k, WKORV OV for $12.8 all very very good prices. Also, a WKORV OFC for $28k.
     
  13. taterhed

    taterhed TUG Member

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    Instructor, yes; for many years.

    School? No.
     
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