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Where does the eBay et al resale properties actually come from?

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bendadin

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Are we actually perpetuating the exit company problem?
 

dgalati

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Are we actually perpetuating the exit company problem?
Yes we are. Most resale contracts sold at $50-$500 without closing costs are being disposed of thru third parties associated with exit companies. I talked with a owner of one contact I bought on ebay from a highly recommended reseller. The owner of deed said he paid a exit company 4k to get rid of a Wyndham deed. He had no knowledge of the ovations program.
 

CO skier

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Yes we are. Most resale contracts sold at $50-$500 without closing costs are being disposed of thru third parties associated with exit companies. I talked with a owner of one contact I bought on ebay from a highly recommended reseller. The owner of deed said he paid a exit company 4k to get rid of a Wyndham deed. He had no knowledge of the ovations program.
The seller paid a $4k commission for someone to sell the timeshare. I do not see a problem with that; no different than someone paying a commission to sell a house.

The Ovation program is not a secret. Wyndham advertises it on the log-in page. If someone chooses an exit company instead of Ovation, that is a consumer education problem not an exit company problem.

I have purchased six timeshares on eBay. No difficulties, and I thought I got great deals, and the deals keep getting better as time goes by. For the sellers, I and the exit company were the solution, not the problem. eBay was the convenient mechanism that brought buyer and seller together.

If Ovation ever catches on and dries up the resale market (doubtful), that will be a problem for me.
 

Grammarhero

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Are we actually perpetuating the exit company problem?

No we are not. We have advertised and recommended Free Giveaways. We have steered people away from those exit companies. There is also RedWeek.

I have four TS: 2 from TUG, 1 Sumday, and 1 from TS Nation.


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Are we actually perpetuating the exit company problem?

So far you have two different answers.

As a result my answer will be yes and no. If by “exit companies” you are referring to the scam artists that are simply taking money with no real intention of ever actually helping the owner in question, then no, we are not perpetuating the problem, since these fraudulent exit companies are not legitimate in any way, shape or form. This would be the “no” answer.

The answer would be yes at least in part and possibility if we are referring to legitimate exit companies who, as CO Skier said, are really being paid for their time to resell the timeshare. Then again, in a competitive market economy where caveat emptor is always in play, I tend to lean more toward CO Skiers assessment as opposed to dgalati’s assessment, but that’s me.




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bendadin

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So we buy from resellers who ripped off somebody to get these properties.

What prevents them from ripping off buyers as well? It isn't as though they suddenly grow a conscience.
 

Grammarhero

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So we buy from resellers who ripped off somebody to get these properties.

What prevents them from ripping off buyers as well? It isn't as though they suddenly grow a conscience.

We also rebuy from sellers who got ripped off from developers/resorts. Should we not rebuy from those ripped-off sellers too? If we rebuy, are we perpetuating the problem? Where do you draw the line?
 

rickandcindy23

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I used to be all "up in arms" over helping the postcard/exit companies to get rid of the inventory via ebay. This changed for me, because I decided people are just really so stupid to pay someone $3,000+ to help them get out of something they should be keeping. After all, they bought with their eyes wide open. They had a rescission period.

These people could actually do a simple internet search and find TUG before buying developer.

The only victims here are the ones who are still stuck with timeshares that don't get sold, even though they paid the same money to get rid of their timeshares, but they aren't really sale-able on ebay.

What I find appalling are the timeshares with real value, like the Marriott, Hilton, Westin, Sheraton and Hyatt timeshares that someone felt "stuck" with and paid off in full, just to get rid of them with more hard-earned cash. Then the exit company makes big money on some of those by reselling them. Think of that!
 

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I used to be all "up in arms" over helping the postcard/exit companies to get rid of the inventory via ebay. This changed for me, because I decided people are just really so stupid to pay someone $3,000+ to help them get out of something they should be keeping. After all, they bought with their eyes wide open. They had a rescission period.

These people could actually do a simple internet search and find TUG before buying developer.

The only victims here are the ones who are still stuck with timeshares that don't get sold, even though they paid the same money to get rid of their timeshares, but they aren't really sale-able on ebay.

What I find appalling are the timeshares with real value, like the Marriott, Hilton, Westin, Sheraton and Hyatt timeshares that someone felt "stuck" with and paid off in full, just to get rid of them with more hard-earned cash. Then the exit company makes big money on some of those by reselling them. Think of that!
Ovations is a rip off to if you think about it. Wyndhams play to help a owner exit and take back for nothing. Is just as big of a ripoff. They will resell to another unsuspecting youg couple at 30k after paying $0 for it. Industry as a whole can be described as a ripoff. Sell something at 30k that is purchased at $0. And some on this board think Ron abused the cracks in system SMH.
 

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To some people, selling anything on ebay or doing any work to get rid of their timeshare is akin to putting a man on the moon or building the great pyramids.

When they want to get rid of their timeshare, they just want an easy way out and the postcard companies offer that. From the looks of it, many timeshare owners fall into this camp, enough to keep these postcard and other schemes going for years.

It's better for a timeshare to be sold on ebay to someone who will pay the maintenance fees that for a timeshare to end up in a Viking ship LLC and be in legal limbo for years. People who buy resale are also likely to be more informed about the timeshare industry in general and will know how to get out when it is time to do so. Legal battles, bankruptcies and the like just increase costs that all timeshare owners pay.

In many ways, the timeshare industry is divided into two camps. People, like us, who know how to extract maximum value from timeshares by buying resale, renting, etc.

Then you have the other, less-fortunate owners who paid full retail from developers, then panic and sell to postcard companies, etc.

In any business transaction, there can be winners and losers, but in the timeshare world, the disparity is massive.

The good news is that 10 minutes of research on your smartphone can tip you into the winning side. For some, however, that is just too much effort.

I will continue to use my timeshare to its fullest and educate anyone who asks about the pitfalls and benefits of the industry. That's about all we can do.
 

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Ovations is a rip off to if you think about it. Wyndhams play to help a owner exit and take back for nothing. Is just as big of a ripoff. They will resell to another unsuspecting youg couple at 30k after paying $0 for it. Industry as a whole can be described as a ripoff. Sell something at 30k that is purchased at $0. And some on this board think Ron abused the cracks in system SMH.

The true value of the timeshare is likely zero, thus the owner is getting fair value through Ovations. The young couple paying $30K is getting ripped off.

The young couple could spend a few minutes on their smartphone to find out the true value of what they are buying. I have sympathy for them, but not as much as I would before the Internet and such easy access to information.
 

SteelerGal

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Many exit companies exist because not all TS companies have a Deed Back Program. Or a Exit Program that will sell your TS in a reasonable amount of time.
Then take into account who Exit Companies are primarily marketing to: seniors. The advertising is not just marketed to TS owners but a subset of owners as well.
Majority of my purchases have ended in the resale market due to life or lifestyle changes.
 
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paxsarah

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These people could actually do a simple internet search and find TUG before buying developer.

Or at the very least, they could do a simple internet search and find TUG before deciding to pay a third party company to sell their timeshare on eBay.
 

bendadin

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But my real question is why we feel that we will be treated any better than the people who paid them to begin with.

There are more and more stories of sellers not particularly on the up and up. I'm just wondering out loud if we are really just asking for trouble.
 

SmithOp

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But my real question is why we feel that we will be treated any better than the people who paid them to begin with.

There are more and more stories of sellers not particularly on the up and up. I'm just wondering out loud if we are really just asking for trouble.

For me its the same reason I buy a lottery ticket, its money I can afford to lose and I may come out ahead. I bought a contract for $5 on eBay and it took 5 months to close, but I got what I wanted in the end.

I wouldn’t risk thousands on an eBay punt.

I also got a steal from a TUG ad by one of the recommended brokers here, the sellers paid $80K and only held it five years, I picked it up for $13K. I figured it was a divorce or some other drastic life event to make someone dump it, it could have sold for over $20K. I had more confidence since it was a licensed resale broker that handled it and everything went smoothly in 2 months.

I don’t feel bad for the sellers, they made a choice, however uninformed. Remember what Carlin said, half the people are below average intelligence. It doesn’t take much to educate yourself on timeshare sales.

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So we buy from resellers who ripped off somebody to get these properties.

What prevents them from ripping off buyers as well? It isn't as though they suddenly grow a conscience.
Here are three eBay auctions for Wyndham timeshares picked at random, but from reputable eBay resellers. Please explain how you think anyone, buyer or seller, is getting “ripped off”?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WorldMark-By-Wyndham-6-000-Annual-Credits-WorldMark-the-Club-Resale-Trendwest/333258466809?hash=item4d97c0a5f9:g:TNkAAOSwszFb12Gw

https://www.ebay.com/itm/308-000-Cl...657727?hash=item5d8d5d41ff:g:qYgAAOSwwo1Xe~9u

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WYNDHAM-CLUB-ACCESS-705-000-ANNUAL-POINTS-TIMESHARE-FLORIDA-HAWAII-CALIFORNIA/383032228083?hash=item592e7ff8f3:g:Cy8AAOxydB1SkQRA
(The buyer got one heck of a deal on this auction.)

What I see when I look at these auctions are sellers who were willing to pay perhaps thousands of dollars to be rid of the yearly maintenance fee obligation and owners who will be happy with the new-to-them timeshare. Seems like win-win to me.
 
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OldGuy

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Are we actually perpetuating the exit company problem?

Guilty, but that was more than 10 years ago, and they are long gone.

(except for one)
 

bendadin

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Here are three eBay auctions for Wyndham timeshares picked at random, but from reputable eBay resellers. Please explain how you think anyone, buyer or seller, is getting “ripped off”?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WorldMark-By-Wyndham-6-000-Annual-Credits-WorldMark-the-Club-Resale-Trendwest/333258466809?hash=item4d97c0a5f9:g:TNkAAOSwszFb12Gw

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WYNDHAM-POINTS-419-000-ANNUAL-CLUB-WYNDHAM-PLUS-OCEANSIDE-PIER-RESORT/312694413402?hash=item48ce0a185a:g:6WgAAOSwsqddFqF2

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WYNDHAM-CLUB-ACCESS-705-000-ANNUAL-POINTS-TIMESHARE-FLORIDA-HAWAII-CALIFORNIA/383032228083?hash=item592e7ff8f3:g:Cy8AAOxydB1SkQRA
(The buyer got one heck of a deal on this auction.)

What I see when I look at these auctions are sellers who were willing to pay perhaps thousands of dollars to be rid of the yearly maintenance fee obligation and owners who will be happy with the new-to-them timeshare. Seems like win-win to me.

Only IF they get the points. If not, they are on the hook for a deeded contract (except for the last one) that has been recorded.
 

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Only IF they get the points. If not, they are on the hook for a deeded contract (except for the last one) that has been recorded.
Sure, eBay is the Wild West and there are no guarantees. You want to paint all exit companies as frauds because some fraudsters exist. It is not difficult to find reputable sellers on eBay for timeshares and many other items.

You seem to be saying that if the eBay timeshare closes successfully then no one was ripped off. That has been my experience with a half dozen timeshare purchases and a few dozen other eBay items.
 

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Sure, eBay is the Wild West and there are no guarantees. You want to paint all exit companies as frauds because some fraudsters exist. It is not difficult to find reputable sellers on eBay for timeshares and many other items.

You seem to be saying that if the eBay timeshare closes successfully then no one was ripped off. That has been my experience with a half dozen timeshare purchases and a few dozen other eBay items.

Indeed, I have purchased three different resale timeshares off of eBay from reputable sellers with nary an issue to report. That is the point of reputation based sales engines like eBay vs relationship based sales engines like timeshare sales teams. Logic vs emotion. Logic wins every single time.


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Grammarhero

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Sure, eBay is the Wild West and there are no guarantees. You want to paint all exit companies as frauds because some fraudsters exist. It is not difficult to find reputable sellers on eBay for timeshares and many other items.

You seem to be saying that if the eBay timeshare closes successfully then no one was ripped off. That has been my experience with a half dozen timeshare purchases and a few dozen other eBay items.

I don’t know as much about TS. Can you explain why the CWA 705k for $500 plus $700 closing costs was a good deal? The MF was $6.43/1k pts.


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I don’t know as much about TS. Can you explain why the CWA 705k for $500 plus $700 closing costs was a good deal? The MF was $6.43/1k pts.
https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/2015-will-they-close-the-deal.233917/#post-1818479

I was going to write, "It was not that long ago when CWA contracts were selling for $5-10/1000 points." But that pricing was summer 2014.

Time flies and Club Wyndham prices have been sliding for longer than I remember. Nevertheless, $1.69/1000 points is a good deal for someone who wants/needs CWA Advance Reservation Priority at multiple resorts, and things have definitely changed from 2015.

I thought it would take a recession to drive CWA prices down to this level.
 

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Here are three eBay auctions for Wyndham timeshares picked at random, but from reputable eBay resellers. Please explain how you think anyone, buyer or seller, is getting “ripped off”?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WorldMark-By-Wyndham-6-000-Annual-Credits-WorldMark-the-Club-Resale-Trendwest/333258466809?hash=item4d97c0a5f9:g:TNkAAOSwszFb12Gw

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WYNDHAM-POINTS-419-000-ANNUAL-CLUB-WYNDHAM-PLUS-OCEANSIDE-PIER-RESORT/312694413402?hash=item48ce0a185a:g:6WgAAOSwsqddFqF2

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WYNDHAM-CLUB-ACCESS-705-000-ANNUAL-POINTS-TIMESHARE-FLORIDA-HAWAII-CALIFORNIA/383032228083?hash=item592e7ff8f3:g:Cy8AAOxydB1SkQRA
(The buyer got one heck of a deal on this auction.)

What I see when I look at these auctions are sellers who were willing to pay perhaps thousands of dollars to be rid of the yearly maintenance fee obligation and owners who will be happy with the new-to-them timeshare. Seems like win-win to me.
No one is getting ripped off compared to Wyndham slam jamming a unsuspecting couple on vacation or a elderly owner that already has 2 million points that the sale weasels convinced to buy another 1 million because it was in their best interest. The new PRIVLEGES BS is a prime example of the marketing sales smoke and mirrors. Another level to become privileged or duped into spending 100k more?>
 
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https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/2015-will-they-close-the-deal.233917/#post-1818479

I was going to write, "It was not that long ago when CWA contracts were selling for $5-10/1000 points." But that pricing was summer 2014.

Time flies and Club Wyndham prices have been sliding for longer than I remember. Nevertheless, $1.69/1000 points is a good deal for someone who wants/needs CWA Advance Reservation Priority at multiple resorts, and things have definitely changed from 2015.

I thought it would take a recession to drive CWA prices down to this level.
No value in any deed Wyndham sells. Wyndham sets the price at $0 through Ovation. Please try to understand what a deed is really worth. No one will loan squat on any deed. Contrary to what the sales weasels tell you
Good deal is to rent from a VIP for $6 per thousand instead of paying $6 per thousand or more in maintenance fees.
 
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