Who has exchanged a week with Redweek?

[Carolinian]

Perry, you are so eaten up with this points lunacy that you cannot see clearly, and as usual you distort comments of those you don't agree with to set up a straw man and knock it down.

First, RCI Weeks, pre-Cendant was a good system. The change occured when Cendant corrupted that system with rentals to the general public and diverting Weeks inventory to prop up Points. This is why the suit against RCI was necessary; to get their hands out of the exchange deposit pot and restore the system to its previous integrity.

RCI's description of how its exchange system works says they use historical usage data, which includes supply and demand in determining trading power. From observing the workings of the exchange system, I see no reason to dispute that. Also, all of Bootleg's info was consistent with that. Your post essentially claims that all red trades the same at the same resort and similarly all white or all blue. Anyone who has used the exchange system can tell you that your speculation is simply not true.

 

[e.bram]

If the point system can't guarantee a specific unit at a specific time, why not just rent. If you can't find what you want, it doesn't cost. With points you have to take something(maybe not what you really want) or loose the points(money). With weeks I know 100% I am getting the unit I want when I want it, if a conflict arises i can exchange and salvage something.

 

["Roger"]

This is such an easy question to answer...

I belonged to Weeks for about three years and used SFX for two. My results were poor to mediocre. Since joining Points, I have several marvelous trips to England (much better than the one I got via SFX). One year my wife and I took an elderly relative on what for her was the trip of her lifetime. We were able to get a three bedroom at one of England's top resorts. Given that we only own a one bedroom, I seriously doubt that we could have done it in Weeks. When my wife and I only needed a one bedroom we could chose that and save left over points for other trips (like the one described above).

This year we went to two decidedly mediocre resorts (compared to ours), but in good locations for us. Rather than hemming and hawing about how we were losing a good part of the value of our timeshare by trading down (for one trip), we took both.

Currently, I am deciding about what to do next year. One possibility is a trip during spring break; another is a trip early June. With Weeks I would have felt that I needed to grab what I have seen available for Spring rather than chance what would become available later for June. Rather than being forced into that sort of choice, I am waiting. My spring trips are still available and shortly I will be able to see what I can get in June.

In short, Points has been a wonderful experience for us because of its flexibility. (Carolinian will be driven nuts by the fact that I used that word, but it is true... Points has given me sooooo much more flexibility.)

I am glad you are happy going where you own. Hopefully, you can be glad that Points gives some of us with different interests and different needs the same sort of happiness.

 

[timeos2]

Take a fixed, a float or a "super float". Points let you choose

If the point system can't guarantee a specific unit at a specific time, why not just rent. If you can't find what you want, it doesn't cost. With points you have to take something(maybe not what you really want) or loose the points(money). With weeks I know 100% I am getting the unit I want when I want it, if a conflict arises i can exchange and salvage something.

Points can and does provide the guarantee of a specific week/resort and maybe unit if you want to be tied down that much. Usually that is accomplished by a home resort priority. Then, just like your weeks, if you don't wish to use that resort/week/unit you can exchange just like weeks. But unlike weeks you don't necessarily get one exchange for one week but a pool of points to be used as you see fit rather than being offered a one for one trade. The word flexibility fits. You can pick an exchange that uses up most of your points but even if you only have a few left in "change" you don't lose them. Use them for a small unit or a short week or roll them over to be used with your next years points - the system ensures you get full value out rather than taking your full week in one, often times unequal, trade. And of course you know going in how much you have to spend in points and what the exchange you want will cost. If you desire a bigger unit or higher value time you can add to your points to get it rather than being told your trade is inadequate. Flexibility. Control. There is a reason you don't see many posts from unhappy points owners while TUG was built at least in part on weeks owners dissatisfaction with that system even in the "good old days".

 

[PerryM]

Geek Squad or Maytag Repair Man can fix RCI/II

<snip>
First, RCI Weeks, pre-Cendant was a good system. The change occured when Cendant corrupted that system with rentals to the general public and diverting Weeks inventory to prop up Points. This is why the suit against RCI was necessary; to get their hands out of the exchange deposit pot and restore the system to its previous integrity.

I wholeheartedly agree that when RCI integrated RCI's/Cendant's travel division they were forced into renting, at market prices, timeshares that would normally be used for exchanges. The question that 12 folks will have to decide is 1) An innocent and stupid mistake 2) An evil plot to take over the world. I think they will side with the bumpkin idea; they will empathize with RCI.

<snip>
RCI's description of how its exchange system works says they use historical usage data, which includes supply and demand in determining trading power. From observing the workings of the exchange system, I see no reason to dispute that. Also, all of Bootleg's info was consistent with that. Your post essentially claims that all red trades the same at the same resort and similarly all white or all blue. Anyone who has used the exchange system can tell you that your speculation is simply not true.

This is where I don't understand your logic.

You just said that RCI is either 1) Stupid or 2) Crooked and now you say that they are Einsteins who are like weather forecasters and predicting patterns of supply and demand.

I just make the assumption in all the above that RCI has a problem of inbreeding - they have a low IQ and are bumbling thru their insane business plan. If I had to factor in supply and demand it would need NO historic data:

Definitions:
No supply: 0 reservations for a specific week and unit size
Supply: 1 reservation for a specific week and unit size
Glut: 2 or more reservations for a specific week and unit size

No demand: 0 ongoing searches for a specific week and unit size
Demand: 1 ongoing search for a specific week and unit size
Mobbed: 2 or more ongoing searches for a specific week and unit size

There is NO need for ANY historical data - it's just a buzz word that some marketing guys pulled out of their butts.


Just as I don't believe that II/RCI have the best interests of their members at heart I don't believe that they take supply and demand into account either; at least the definition that most folks use from common sense.

P.S.
I believe that the above definitions of supply and demand (the insane ones) are actually used by RCI and II. I would if I were running their IT department - saves the need to keep historic data and they are all I'd need to implement the existing systems as we see them today. That way I don't need to pay for a data base administrator - I can call in the Geek Squad to make programming changes - or the Maytag Repair Man.

 

[BocaBum99]

Perry, you are so eaten up with this points lunacy that you cannot see clearly, and as usual you distort comments of those you don't agree with to set up a straw man and knock it down.

First, RCI Weeks, pre-Cendant was a good system. The change occured when Cendant corrupted that system with rentals to the general public and diverting Weeks inventory to prop up Points. This is why the suit against RCI was necessary; to get their hands out of the exchange deposit pot and restore the system to its previous integrity.

RCI's description of how its exchange system works says they use historical usage data, which includes supply and demand in determining trading power. From observing the workings of the exchange system, I see no reason to dispute that. Also, all of Bootleg's info was consistent with that. Your post essentially claims that all red trades the same at the same resort and similarly all white or all blue. Anyone who has used the exchange system can tell you that your speculation is simply not true.

I'd have to support the notion that RCI was better and more owner friendly in the pre-Cendant days. That's because Cendant seems to do everything it can to suck out value of every thing it owns. It's apparantly the nature of the beast.

I don't, however, attribute the degradation of the RCI system inherently to RCI Points. Cendant would have found ways to suck out value of the system even if they hadn't introduced RCI Points. All they had to do was eliminate the deposit of developer weeks into the system by renting them for profit and the RCI system would collapse and be done by now. And, this would be a completely legitimate business decision.

If Cendant were an owner friendly organization, they could have easily created a points based system that more fairly and effectively mapped supply and demand using basic theory of currency management and pricing 101 with a clean interface between both systems. They didn't due to a lack of execution skills and a pre-disposition to milking the cash cow called RCI.

I do believe that your commentary about RCI Points is misleading. I believe it should be aimed at Cendant and not Points in general. The way you come across is that points systems are inherently bad and weeks systems are not. That is not the correct conclusion. The quality of the exchange company has more to do with the philosophy of the management and their ability to execute than the underlying system.

I believe the best attributes of a weeks based system is its simplicity. People can more easily understand one week in gets one week out. The best attributes of a points based system is that some weeks have more value than others and you get to see that value to decide if a given exchange is worth it to you.

Which is better? What ever works best for you.

 

[BocaBum99]

If the point system can't guarantee a specific unit at a specific time, why not just rent. If you can't find what you want, it doesn't cost. With points you have to take something(maybe not what you really want) or loose the points(money). With weeks I know 100% I am getting the unit I want when I want it, if a conflict arises i can exchange and salvage something.

You clearly do not understand how point systems work and how to use them most effectively. Do you own any points? If not, you are just speculating about them and your speculation is actually quite weak. Kind of like reading a book on chess and then providing commentory and analysis of a chess match between grandmasters.

By your posts, you have an underlying belief system that the only thing worth owning is a prime fixed week in a location that you like such as an oceanfront unit. If you own such a unit, you can guarantee that you have that unit and you can rent it or use it.

If that is your philosophy, great. Keep using it. It's working for you. That does NOT mean that there aren't other good timesharing strategies that are equal or better to yours.

I find owning a fixed week to use or rent only rather limiting. The usage is limited, the flexibillity is limited, the options are limited and the profit potential is limited. To me, it would be equivalent of going to an ice cream parlour and only getting the cherry because you like it the most since it is always on the top of any sundae they make. With that strategy, you miss out on all of the great flavors, sundaes and creations of the owner.

Personally, I've tried tons of timesharing alternatives (fixed, float, points, rentals, bonus time, direct exchange, major exchange, independent exchange, etc) and purchasing the prime fixed week is about the lowest on the totem pole of worthwhile strategies. It is just so limiting. This country and world are so vast with great options and possible experiences, why would anyone want to limit themselves to only one of them year in and year out.

Prime weeks are nice trophy properties, but Point systems make timesharing interesting.

 

["Roger"]

I don't share Perry's and Boca's enthusiasm for timesharing pre-Cendent. I have often said that when I first bought (1996), I could not find a single person who had any experience in timesharing who thought that I was doing the right thing. It was a dirty affair in which those with more knowledge were taking advantage of those who did not. As John Chase has pointed out, that was the very reason for creating TUG... to help level the playing field.

TUG became popular among some because it helped them defend themselves; among others because they were looking for tips on how to "trade up" (and take advantage of those who were not in the know -- "loose lips sink ships").

I might also mention that several years after I bought, I did manage to find some happy timeshare owners. They fell into two groups... those who were part of a points system (usually Fairfield)* or Marriott owners. The latter group puzzled me in that, while Marriott has nice timeshares, these owners had to pay thousand and thousands more for their units and were also paying considerable more every year in maintenance fees. When asked, these owners in essence told me that, at least, when you own a Marriott, you know that you are not going to get ripped off when you make a trade. In others words, they were people with enough money to pay to get out of the dirty mess that timesharing had been.

* [Footnote: One of my favorite - and revealing - lines came from a female colleague at work. I discovered that she owned a timeshare (Fairfield Points) and was reasonably happy. I asked why she had never told me that before. She responded, "I usually don't tell people that I have a timeshare because I don't want them to think I am gullible." That tells you something about what she thought the reputation of timesharing was back then.]

Just out of curiosity, Boca? ... Perry? Do you have stories about how timesharing used to be clean and good? Were either of you actually owners during the "good ol' days"? If you were enthusiastic was it because you "found flaws in the system" that allowed you to trade up?

 

[BocaBum99]

Just out of curiosity, Boca? ... Perry? Do you have stories about how timesharing used to be clean and good? Were either of you actually owners during the "good ol' days"? If you were enthusiastic was it because you "found flaws in the system" that allowed you to trade up?

I don't. I wasn't around in the pre-Cendant days. I am only giving others the benefit of the doubt that it was better in the good ol' days. I could be wrong about that.

Lots of people report on this message board that their trades used to be better and now they aren't. That is my source.

I would reconsider that point of view if you have data that suggests otherwise.

 

[PerryM]

The good old days are right now - they always are...

<snip>
Just out of curiosity, Boca? ... Perry? Do you have stories about how timesharing used to be clean and good? Were either of you actually owners during the "good ol' days"? If you were enthusiastic was it because you "found flaws in the system" that allowed you to trade up?

I bought my first timeshare in Dec of 1999 – my son and I were on our first snowboarding adventure to a “Real mountain” and got on our first ever 6-pack chair lift “Payday” at the Park City Mountain Resort. As we were scooped up I noticed cement trucks pouring a foundation of a condo complex 50’ from where we were – I couldn’t wait to snowboard down and read the sign on the fence that said “MountainSide – a Marriott Vacation Club Resort”.

Well I bought two week 52’s that afternoon and later found out that the timeshare gods were smiling on my son and I that day.

I bought because the salesrep pointed out a cool thing:
“Snowboard every New Year’s week here or turn in your week to Marriott for 200,000 MRPs and 2 people can fly ANYWHERE in the world and stay 1 week at a top end Marriott hotel”

I can’t tell you how that rang in my ears and couldn’t wait to sign (the reason I bought 2) – then bought a week 51 a week later. MountainSide was unique in exchanging for 200,000 MRPs every year and back then 200k MRPs would get 2 folks to ANYWHERE on the planet and a week at top end Marriotts.

Timeshare exchanges were the last thing I wanted to do – I had no idea what they were.

Since then I’ve sold those 3 Marriotts and used my knowledge of timesharing to get right back there during Christmas time for 1/10 the cost. Thanks II for the fantastic exchanges.

The good old times are NOW! They always are.

 

[thinze3]

Exchange alternative

We do need an exchange alternative.
Whether RW is doing it correctly, I do not know.

If you own a Marriott timeshare, check out www.ownertrades.com.

A direct exchange opportunity with other Marriott owners can be researched there.
No charge for the exchange either.

I have recently sent out a few emails and have already had a decent nibble.

Terry

 

[wbtimesharer]

Perry, you are so eaten up with this points lunacy that you cannot see clearly, and as usual you distort comments of those you don't agree with to set up a straw man and knock it down.

First, RCI Weeks, pre-Cendant was a good system. The change occured when Cendant corrupted that system with rentals to the general public and diverting Weeks inventory to prop up Points. This is why the suit against RCI was necessary; to get their hands out of the exchange deposit pot and restore the system to its previous integrity.

RCI's description of how its exchange system works says they use historical usage data, which includes supply and demand in determining trading power. From observing the workings of the exchange system, I see no reason to dispute that. Also, all of Bootleg's info was consistent with that. Your post essentially claims that all red trades the same at the same resort and similarly all white or all blue. Anyone who has used the exchange system can tell you that your speculation is simply not true.

Caroline,

RCI isn't the only one renting out weeks. II does it as well as DAE which I just received an email from this morning offering $89 weeks. From my viewpoint, if you exchange points to get an RCI week, you are in effect exchanging a week that you used to get the points in the first place.

There are cases where you can get a week for less points than a weeks value, but that is within the 30 day window. Of course II weeks has the same situation where it opens up all inventory within 60 days prior to check in.

I still have a hard time understanding the main RCI points bias you have.

Bill

 

[PerryM]

Buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I watch “America’s got talent” which is a new version of the old talent show – I love that British guy Piers Morgan, we warms my heart!

Anyway, I view RW’s attempt at breaking into the exchange world like Piers – I’m buzzing the “X” button and want the stage hands to use a hook and drag them off the stage – they stink.

So put me down for a loud BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

 

[thinze3]

I watch “America’s got talent” which is a new version of the old talent show – I love that British guy Piers Morgan, we warms my heart!

Anyway, I view RW’s attempt at breaking into the exchange world like Piers – I’m buzzing the “X” button and want the stage hands to use a hook and drag them off the stage – they stink.

So put me down for a loud BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

GONGGGGGGGGGG!

Perry - you funny man!

 

[PerryM]

Baggy pants...

We do need an exchange alternative.
Whether RW is doing it correctly, I do not know.

If you own a Marriott timeshare, check out www.ownertrades.com.

A direct exchange opportunity with other Marriott owners can be researched there.
No charge for the exchange either.

I have recently sent out a few emails and have already had a decent nibble.

Terry

Correct!

It is my fondest dream for a bunch of folks, via the internet, to take on a large company and bring it to its knees – I actually dream of this stuff.

Setting up a Points based exchange system can be drawn up on one piece of paper and implemented by a few folks. This could be a huge success.

However, watching the initial reaction to RW, which I abhorred, now actually seems to be right on target – RW is turning out to be a kid trying to dress up and the baggy sleeves and pants now seem to be quite comical.

So I’m awaiting someone at RW stepping in and become the grownup in the organization – I don’t know how long that will take, or if it will even happen.

Until then I can only smile and shake my head.

P.S.
To all those that I excoriated for snubbing RW - I stand corrected.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

In a discussion of exchange company rentals of deposited weeks, I recall Craig Urbine stating flatly that there was no way to successfully operate an exchange company without doing rentals. There was never any followup discussion of how and why rentals were needed.

 

["Roger"]

...Lots of people report on this message board that their trades used to be better and now they aren't. That is my source...

My experience is that a lot of people are remembering back to around the year 2000. (That was post Cendent, by the way.) There was a "golden era" especially for TUGGERs when online trading first started to have traction and RCI allowed you to do large trade ups.

For a while, shopping on line was like visiting a candy store. Most timesharers (read non-Tuggers) were depositing their weeks and then and putting in very limited requests. They were not shopping around. TUGGERs discovered that there were things that people hadn't thought of asking for that was going untaken. We used to have periodic bragging threads as to who had gotten the most (often with the least).

Then, the number of people using online trading begin to substantially grow (as reported by RCI/Cedent) and the candy store begin to become depleated. It was no longer just TUGGERS and a few others that were going through the candy store, but the average Joe on the street who never heard of TUG started doing online trading. That meant that this secret was out, everyone begin to see what was available, and the good stuff was being grabbed up faster and faster. Now that trading had become more democratized (and thus fairer), you begin to see TUGGERs complain that timesharing wasn't any fun any more. (Ironic isn't it?)

In any case, just look at Bill Roger's explanation as to why he started TUG and you will get another view that timesharing was not necessarily fun nor fair pre-Cendent. It was bad enough to prompt him to begin this site.

 

["Roger"]

Now if you really want to go back in time...

I remember back about six or eight years before I first begin to timeshare, I had a neighbor who was given a free week to trade by her employer. At that time, she (actually her boss) received a mailing toward the end of the month listing timeshare trades that were available. On the first of the month (I think it was the first) all the trades listed became available, first come first serve. My neighbor put RCI on speed dial, begin calling RCI at eight in the morning, getting a busy signal, hanging up, hit the speed dial, etc. She would do this for half hour stints. She said that she and her husband would pick out thirty to fourty timeshares that look interesting. By the time she got through (usually late morning or early afternoon), most if not all of what they checked was gone.

I really don't know if ongoing searches were available back then or not. As I said, my neighbor was depended upon her boss for the deposit and she might not have known all the options available for full time members. In fact, the whole story is a bit fuzzy in my mind in that I was not interested in timesharing at all back then. This is what I remember being told, however.

 

[BocaBum99]

My experience is that a lot of people are remembering back to around the year 2000. (That was post Cendent, by the way.) There was a "golden era" especially for TUGGERs when online trading first started to have traction and RCI allowed you to do large trade ups.

For a while, shopping on line was like visiting a candy store. Most timesharers (read non-Tuggers) were depositing their weeks and then and putting in very limited requests. They were not shopping around. TUGGERs discovered that there were things that people hadn't thought of asking for that was going untaken. We used to have periodic bragging threads as to who had gotten the most (often with the least).

Then, the number of people using online trading begin to substantially grow (as reported by RCI/Cedent) and the candy store begin to become depleated. It was no longer just TUGGERS and a few others that were going through the candy store, but the average Joe on the street who never heard of TUG started doing online trading. That meant that this secret was out, everyone begin to see what was available, and the good stuff was being grabbed up faster and faster. Now that trading had become more democratized (and thus fairer), you begin to see TUGGERs complain that timesharing wasn't any fun any more. (Ironic isn't it?)

In any case, just look at Bill Roger's explanation as to why he started TUG and you will get another view that timesharing was not necessarily fun nor fair pre-Cendent. It was bad enough to prompt him to begin this site.

I seem to recall those stories in my early days of timesharing. I didn't completely understand them at that time, but they make much more sense to me now.

Based on what you said, here is my understanding of what really happened. Basically, prior to the advent of online viewing of inventory, the general timesharing community had very little understanding of how to make an effective exchange request. That makes sense since they had no information on which to base an exchange request So, they made bad choices and got weak trades. As a result, anyone with knowledge of the system could raid it effortlessly. That makes a lot of sense. A person with access to inventory can do a much better job at figuring out how to make a request and do massive trade ups.

In essence, a two tier community of exchangers was created. Those with the knowledge of how to raid the system and those without the knowledge.

That happened for a few years until the cat was so out of the bag that the Golden Goose was threatened to be killed. So, RCI had to take action.

In an effort to fix the inherent flaws in a weeks based system where massive trade ups and trade downs were occurring, they attempted to create a more fair method of exchange using a points based system. After all, a system of exchange that is based on a currency of any kind has proven over time to be far superior of an exchange medium to straight one for one barter. So, RCI attempted to create a currency-like system that would be fairer in balancing supply and demand and accommodating the nuances of relative value. They didn't do it well and they got caught up in politics and the profit motive. But, that makes a lot of sense.

I have never believed that hidden trading power formula were the most effective way to map supply and demand. I still believe that to be true.

I also believe that third party timeshare exchange companies cannot be successful without free weeks to make up for expiring weeks, bonus weeks and rentals.

Thanks for the history lesson. It's all starting to make a lot more sense to me now.

 

[Phill12]

I have a question.
How do you all know that jayjay owns NO timeshares?

Jayjay, Ziggy, Sumauri, GinGin, Katmabdu has stated it many times that she owns no timeshares!

Also, I have had good luck on Redweek renting my weeks at Christie Lodge. I have never tried myresortnetwork, but have used it to help my price determination.

Terry

Terry did you deposit your three bedroom in Colorado just to help the exchange system start to work! This is why many Tug members have made deposits into Redweek exchange!

Reason I wonder is you said you had no problem renting it. If this is the case then it seems you would make enough money for your winter week to rent almost anywhere else!

What ever happens I hope you get a fair exchange or something you like from your deposit!

 

[thinze3]

He an ugly man.

In a discussion of exchange company rentals of deposited weeks, I recall Craig Urbine stating flatly that there was no way to successfully operate an exchange company without doing rentals. There was never any followup discussion of how and why rentals were needed.

Damn, T_R_Oglodyte - you an ugly man! :hysterical:




---- Yes that's a Monk seal at Waiohai ----

 

[thinze3]

Terry did you deposit your three bedroom in Colorado just to help the exchange system start to work! This is why many Tug members have made deposits into Redweek exchange!

Reason I wonder is you said you had no problem renting it. If this is the case then it seems you would make enough money for your winter week to rent almost anywhere else!

What ever happens I hope you get a fair exchange or something you like from your deposit!

I am sad that I can't buy another Waiohai at this time so that next time I can stay for two weeks. As a matter of fact, I think Waiohai ruined my life. All I do since I got back is think about Kauai and read these dumb a$$ posts!

I have used and traded my CL week in years past. Had a little luck trading, but am more particular now. (ever since my first trip to Marriott Maui). I rented it the last two years on RW. I just wanted to do something different and RW is what I knew. I emailed them back and forth a few times and BINGO.

Funny thing, I still email Kylie at RW about various ideas and discussions on these boards. She always responds back. There are changes coming!

All BS aside, I would like to have two years CL deposited with Redweek so I can go somewhere really nice if available (hope Perry & Boca are not listening).

Wouldn't happen to have a Westin St. John to deposit would you?

.

 

[timeos2]

Oversupply,like cholesterol, comes from two sources Overbuilt or unwanted Treat both

Ah! But you seem to forget that any significant excess of supply over demand would fit in the dog category, and this certainly applies to much of the year in the overbuilt areas. The reason a blue week from almost anywhere will trade into Orlando much of the year, for example, is because Orlando is massively overbuilt in timeshare and the resulting oversupply makes them equivalent weeks. Calling that a trade up is laughable. It is an even trade because the market says it is even..

Going back two pages (!) as this statement was bothering me.

The facts about this being an "even trade" don't stand up. Its very easy to prove.

Take one of those dog, blue time weeks - even if it's the ONLY one there is (and we know there are plenty) so the supply side is as bad as the "overbuilt" area even though it is not overbuilt for prime times. The supply of the dog blue weeks is as great or greater than the not-quite-red week you claim is an equal trade. Oversupply doesn't require 100's of units but only a few that are unwanted.

How do we know the blue dogs are unwanted while the pinks have more demand? Easy. Put both up for rent. While you may not get prime time price for the pink it will rent most of the time. But the blue is almost impossible to move at any price. There have been documented cases where people try to give the use away and find no takers.

Thus the claim that overbuilding can make an otherwise higher value trade equal to a true dog week is false. Oversupply occurs on both types so it is a wash. Now we're back to location (which the red time will always win - the blue dog is a dog due to poor seasonal location), size and quality to be the tie breakers. Thus any trade of a dog blue week for anything other than another dog blue week is in fact a trade up and it was the system that fed RCI Weeks until the internet leveled the playing field.

 

[PerryM]

Dumb is good...

I seem to recall those stories in my early days of timesharing. I didn't completely understand them at that time, but they make much more sense to me now.

Based on what you said, here is my understanding of what really happened. Basically, prior to the advent of online viewing of inventory, the general timesharing community had very little understanding of how to make an effective exchange request. That makes sense since they had no information on which to base an exchange request So, they made bad choices and got weak trades. As a result, anyone with knowledge of the system could raid it effortlessly. That makes a lot of sense. A person with access to inventory can do a much better job at figuring out how to make a request and do massive trade ups.

In essence, a two tier community of exchangers was created. Those with the knowledge of how to raid the system and those without the knowledge.

That happened for a few years until the cat was so out of the bag that the Golden Goose was threatened to be killed. So, RCI had to take action.

In an effort to fix the inherent flaws in a weeks based system where massive trade ups and trade downs were occurring, they attempted to create a more fair method of exchange using a points based system. After all, a system of exchange that is based on a currency of any kind has proven over time to be far superior of an exchange medium to straight one for one barter. So, RCI attempted to create a currency-like system that would be fairer in balancing supply and demand and accommodating the nuances of relative value. They didn't do it well and they got caught up in politics and the profit motive. But, that makes a lot of sense.

I have never believed that hidden trading power formula were the most effective way to map supply and demand. I still believe that to be true.

I also believe that third party timeshare exchange companies cannot be successful without free weeks to make up for expiring weeks, bonus weeks and rentals.

Thanks for the history lesson. It's all starting to make a lot more sense to me now.

I’ve said for many years that ignorance is the best friend of the timeshare industry – that goes for week based exchange systems like II and RCI too.

Sadly, the general public may be getting more internet wise and thus many of the inefficiencies which many of us use to our advantage are drying up. I don’t know what the critical mass is for II/RCI in terms of ignorant users of their services – I good measure would be those of us who plunder the week systems for upgrades.

The saddest day of my timeshare life will be when Marriott dumps II and offers its own internal exchange system – I’m going to have a long talk with Johnnie Walker that night and make some hard decisions – probably to buy back into the Marriott system for big bucks again.

Until then I can report no slow down in Marriott upgrade exchanges in II – not a bit. Also, virtually every exchange using my WM credits is an upgrade - it's hard to find a downgrade even if I tried.

 

[thinze3]

Going back two pages (!) as this statement was bothering me.

The facts about this being an "even trade" don't stand up. Its very easy to prove.

Take one of those dog, blue time weeks - even if it's the ONLY one there is (and we know there are plenty) so the supply side is as bad as the "overbuilt" area even though it is not overbuilt for prime times. The supply of the dog blue weeks is as great or greater than the not-quite-red week you claim is an equal trade. Oversupply doesn't require 100's of units but only a few that are unwanted.

How do we know the blue dogs are unwanted while the pinks have more demand? Easy. Put both up for rent. While you may not get prime time price for the pink it will rent most of the time. But the blue is almost impossible to move at any price. There have been documented cases where people try to give the use away and find no takers.

Thus the claim that overbuilding can make an otherwise higher value trade equal to a true dog week is false. Oversupply occurs on both types so it is a wash. Now we're back to location (which the red time will always win - the blue dog is a dog due to poor seasonal location), size and quality to be the tie breakers. Thus any trade of a dog blue week for anything other than another dog blue week is in fact a trade up and it was the system that fed RCI Weeks until the internet leveled the playing field.

How 'bout RW just put all their weeks up for bid.
Voilai!!
The winning bid is the value of that week.


----- Please don't bother the Monk Seal ----- :ignore:


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