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Why are time shares a scam??

Discussion in 'TUG Lounge' started by Gypsy65, May 14, 2019 at 1:05 PM.

  1. bluehende

    bluehende TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    Timeshares are not scams, but many companies operating in the space are scammers. And I do not exclude some well known companies.
     
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  2. ski_sierra

    ski_sierra TUG Member

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    Timeshares obey Heisenberg uncertainty principle. They are a scam and a good deal at the same time.

    Timesharing is not intuitive especially to people who grew up with the internet. I can see how it made sense to sell condos as timeshares when there was no easy way to connect owners with renters. But now we have services like VRBO, booking.com, AirBnB, Craigslist. People are working within the existing system but if someone was looking at the vacation accommodation problem with fresh eyes today, the solution would be very different than a timeshare.

    Before I joined TUG couple of months ago, the only thing I had read about timeshares was it is a scam. I still believe it is a scam for a large majority of the people out there. And the people who get scammed subsidize the people who use timeshares to their advantage like TUGgers. The system is not fair and depending on which side you end up on you will feel like it's a scam or it's a great deal. Similarities exist in many places. High expense ratio active funds create a highly efficient stock market that index fund investors take advantage of. High interest paying people subsidize people who take advantage of credit card rewards. Many people pay property taxes but only a few utilize the benefits of libraries, parks, recreation centers, etc.

    There are weird and archaic rules in timesharing which are not worth learning for people who don't vacation often. But the complexity means there are opportunities for people who are informed. It's fun to figure out how to be on the winning side. But if you miss a step, you could be on the losing side.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019 at 2:27 PM
  3. Big Matt

    Big Matt TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    I would argue that the car buying experience is similar to that of buying a timeshare. Sales people have all of the information and you have little. They sell you on the new shiny thing, but never tell you about maintenance (fees) or taxes. They ask you how much you can afford to pay monthly instead of the amount of interest you will pay.

    The sales process is very sleazy. Educated buyers can get great bargains for both used cars and resale timeshares. I for one believe that what I get in terms of value and flexibility with my timeshares far outpaces what I get from renting, hotels, etc.
     
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  4. jme

    jme TUG Member

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    Same for me, Big Matt, not even close. But admittedly that's our dumb luck, buying at the right time in our lives,

    with several additional purchases being resales prior to 2010, and enrolling everything we could. For us both, we were lucky.
     
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  5. OldGuy

    OldGuy Guest

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    So, the summarize, something you are lied to to get you to buy it, and you pay, say $25,000 for, when people are trying to give the same thing away for free, and then you can't get rid of it, so you have to keep paying additional fees for something you do not use, ad infinitum, is not a bad deal.

    OK
     
  6. Gypsy65

    Gypsy65 Guest

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    Swing and a miss!!

    Read the points. Not just mine.
    People are taken advantage of all the time. Myself included
    But guess what? It’s still up to each person to know good from bad. Lie or not
    My post about supply and demand should help

    The guy who makes $12 an hour. Has 9 kids. An old beat up mini van and 10x50 trailer is the guy who shouldn’t buy
    New or used


    There’s no monetary value with timeshares. Never has been. I knew that when I was 16
    The value is the vacations if you can afford more than 1 a year. And the ease of it all
    The resort purchases make sense if you like the extra perks you might get

    We get a lot of perks but we own at a much different level than most do or ever will

    It doesn’t work or make sense for everyone
    I ride bikes but I don’t get online and complain about how they are a waste of $ and they don’t work at all for me and my 15 kids

    Sure. Sales guy never really said it would. But he did sell the freedom factor

    And for those who ride they know the value of that

    It isn’t that the $30,000 bike that dropped to $15,000 the first year
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019 at 5:38 PM
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  7. OldGuy

    OldGuy Guest

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    Your points are just as valid now as they were 25 years ago. Well, maybe not quite, but I might have made the same ones myself back then.

    Have fun on your bike.
     
  8. Fredflintstone

    Fredflintstone TUG Member

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    I must say in the outset I used to own timeshares but now just rent.

    Saying that, I don’t see timeshares as a scam. The developer is very detailed on the mountain of forms you sign on the dotted line. If you don’t read them, that’s your fault.

    If you buy resale, it is up to you to do your due diligence by researching the prospective timeshare beforehand. Know what you Are buying before you buy it.

    I know many folks here who love their timeshares and get wonderful use out of them. The only regrets I hear is they should have bought resale right off the bat.

    Yes, I know some salespeople lie. That’s why you MUST read everything before you sign and anything promised that was not added needs to be added in your written documents.

    Remember, it’s what you signed that counts.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
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  9. Ralph Sir Edward

    Ralph Sir Edward TUG Member

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    They are and they aren't. The underlying concept is good, if you limited it to the target population (which is a very small portion of the total population) and had a sales methodology that didn't lead to inappropriate selling.

    Unfortunately, the massive up-front profit on the initial sale, leads to the abuses seen. This is compounded by the owner restrictions many timeshares place on the owners - such as limits on commercial renting.

    But as long as there are people who can be convinced to buy timeshares new, the status quo will remain.
     
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  10. Brett

    Brett Guest

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    right, especially true with timeshares - Don't buy New !
    (become knowledgeable through TUG then buy resales)
     
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  11. Gypsy65

    Gypsy65 Guest

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    I don’t totally agree with only resales
    From the resort is a screw job no doubt but if the additional benefits or perks outweigh the cost then that’s the only way you’re going to get them

    Resorts are working pretty hard to make that gap as far apart as possible as they know that’s how they’re going to sell value in their product

    At least that’s how I see it playing our with ours
     
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  12. Big Matt

    Big Matt TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    Let me be clear about my experience. I bought my first timeshare at retail price, but I knew exactly what I wanted. I couldn't get a lock off at Manor Club and would have had to wait a few years until they showed up in the secondary market. I paid cash and I believe it was something like $17k. A lot of money 15-20 years ago, but I've got way more value by trading both parts into places like Grande Ocean, Newport Coast, Hawaii.....places that are far more expensive. I also bought a resale lock off at Grande Vista for $7k. That was an even better purchase. You have to look at it over a 25-40 year period to understand the math. I never intend to sell mine either. My kids will get them at some point.

    Finally, the most important things that I've received by buying timeshares are: Memories
     
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  13. geist1223

    geist1223 Guest

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    We know 99% of the people say buy only resell. With Developer Points in Worldmark we have direct Booking access to WMSP. In a less than a 10 year period of time (November 2010 to February 2020) we have made will make 4 trips to New Zealand and Australia. Also WMSP has bought into timeshares in Tuscany and Bavaria. And they are looking at Resorts in Japan. With DRI Developer Hawaiian Club besides trips to Hawaii we have traveled to France and Mexico. Yes we know we could try and trade through RCI or II with resell Points. But that is always a chance game that Resorts will become available when and where we want to go.
     
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  14. silentg

    silentg TUG Review Crew: Expert TUG Member

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    Timeshares confuse a lot of people. My father always thought they were a waste of money. My mother bought a week at a timeshare auction, so did my sister.
    IMHO they never used the timeshares properly. My Dad liked to trade thru RCI into another timeshare he liked better. My mother liked her timeshare but she traded thru RCI to please my Dad.
    He complained about exchange fees, membership and maintenance. But he enjoyed going away I tried to help him understand the concept, but he felt like real estate should have a better resale value, telling him he was buying vacation time never rang true to him. My sister hardly uses her timeshare weeks she prefers to go on cruises and rent hotels. Sometimes she exchanges her week but only stays a couple of days.
    We try to make use of all our timeshares. I’ve been doing trades thru TUG mostly and have sold a few weeks on TUG too.
    I’m still not an expert Timeshare user but I know how to say no to presentation or free lunch, tell them I have lots of plans and not wasting time listening to a sales pitch.
    Of course I try to word it as pleasantly as possible.
    I don’t think timeshares are a scam, but I won’t buy from a developer again!
    Silentg
     
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  15. Bailey#1

    Bailey#1 TUG Member

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    To me my timeshares has been a blessing, but I went into it with some knowledge (always bought resale). That is the difference between a good purchase and a scam.

    To me purchasing new snowmobiles has been my biggest mistake (think little snow, insurance, trail passes, back aches, near frostbite, repairs and more repairs, and teenagers living at home) but timeshares has been my best purchase.
     
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  16. OldGuy

    OldGuy Guest

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  17. OldGuy

    OldGuy Guest

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    Using the word scam is like using the word spying. It means different things to different people.

    All-in-all, the timeshare industry could be tad more forthright.

    :cool:
     
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  18. jehb2

    jehb2 TUG Member

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    When ever I start singing the praises of timesharing I tell people that they need to beware that there are a lot of scummy people in the industry.
     
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  19. Fredflintstone

    Fredflintstone TUG Member

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    I agree but even the scummy people in the industry need to disclose and have you sign that you agree with the terms. That’s the law and it’s consistent in every state. If it’s not in writing and signed off, you can refuse and win. So, that’s why you must do your homework and read before you sign off. Otherwise, it’s your fault if you feel you are scammed.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
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  20. Fredflintstone

    Fredflintstone TUG Member

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    Without giving too many details a timeshare resort wanted to add fees and charges that were new. I refused to pay. They said contract. I told them I have a copy of the exact same contract and no where did I agree to these terms and crossed out and initialled that they can change terms at anytime.

    They backed down.

    I sold that one years ago but it was the contract that helped me, not them that time. It also helped the new owner who was very pleased that I crossed that clause out before signing.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  21. jehb2

    jehb2 TUG Member

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    Every time I go to an owners update they try to get me to upgrade and offer me a special deal of 50:1 HHonors points. Depending on the hotel that exchange might get me 1.5-2 hotel nights for my 7 timeshare nights. Most people don’t realize that. The sales people don’t tell you that. There’s a lot they don’t tell you. In fact they outright lie.

    We could start a thread “Lies my timeshare sales person told me.”

    I have been timesharing since 1999. I absolutely love timesharing. My family and I have had nothing but great experiences. But timeshare sales people lie. In my last several updates I have actually told them point blank that something they said is not true.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019 at 7:51 PM
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  22. mentalbreak

    mentalbreak Guest

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    I like this idea!
     
  23. jehb2

    jehb2 TUG Member

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    Last edited: May 16, 2019 at 10:36 PM
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  24. Fredflintstone

    Fredflintstone TUG Member

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    There are always isolated cases where a resort goes bad. This true in every industry.

    As I recall, there was a criminal investigation of wrongdoings there.

    I know of one other resort who was alleged to do similar and the CEO got 30 years plus all assets taken and distributed to owners so there are consequences for those who scam in the industry.

    Overall, good names are in the industry like Hilton and Disney and Marriott.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
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  25. jehb2

    jehb2 TUG Member

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    There are so many cases gone bad in Mexico that the the government has an office dedicated to helping victims—PROFECO.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019 at 11:09 PM
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