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Why do resale points have to be enrolled?

Discussion in 'Marriott Vacation Club' started by Quilter, May 14, 2019 at 9:51 AM.

  1. Quilter

    Quilter Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    We don't own points. Our point usage comes from enrolled legacy weeks. Until recently, I mostly just kept tabs on the MF's per point so I understood how to compare what I was paying per point when I exchanged my enrolled weeks.

    Recent threads have been very educational about comparing the cost of buying points vs. buying weeks and hoping for an amnesty promotion.

    One of the new threads on reselling points has been an eye opener about the condition that once points are transferred in a resale they then have to be enrolled. I've heard about this but didn't seriously keep track of the enrollment price.

    I still don't really understand the concept of enrolling points. The mere fact that they're points means they have no value unless they can reserve nights at a property. Why then, when they are resold, do they have to be enrolled? Without enrollment, it appears resale points are less valuable than air.

    I'm sure this has been much discussed. Please forgive me as I try to get a fuller grasp on the points vs. weeks resale market.
     
  2. Fasttr

    Fasttr TUG Member

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    The Exchange Docs say this....
    Further, with respect to Direct Members, until payment of any required initiation fee is received (or waived by Exchange Company), the New Program Member may not be entitled to Base Plus Exchange Benefits or Special Benefits in Exchange Company’s sole discretion; however, payment of the initiation fee (or waiver by Exchange Company) will allow access to the Base Plus Exchange Benefits.

    Base Plus Exchange Benefits mean the ability to make exchanges during all the Reservation Windows subject to these Exchange Procedures and access to such other programs and services defined and offered by Exchange Company as Base Plus Exchange Benefits, from time to time, in Exchange Company’s sole discretion. The ability to utilize a Base Plus Exchange Benefit may not be available to all Program Members.

    Special Benefits mean special products, services, benefits, and vacation/recreational experiences offered by Exchange Company, including, without limitation, the ability to reserve hotel accommodations, cruises, other travel services, and to receive PlusPoints. The ability to utilize a Special Benefit may not be available to all Program Members including, specifically, Program Members who are entitled only to Base Exchange Benefits. If Special Benefits are available and a Program Member is eligible to purchase or utilize any Special Benefits, separate terms and conditions shall apply to the purchase and use of such Special Benefits.


    So in a nutshell, if you don't pay the $3 per point initiation fee, you can only secure ressie's 60 days and closer to check in (which is defined as the Open Reservation window), and you seemingly cannot also enjoy other uses of your points offered through the Explorer Collection.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2019 at 11:45 AM
    ljmiii and bazzap like this.
  3. StevenTing

    StevenTing TUG Member

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    It comes down to terminology. It’s an initiation fee rather than an enrollment fee.

    Kinda like buying a home within a country club. You bought the home, but you must also pay the initiation fee and new member dues to use all of the amenities.
     
  4. Theiggy

    Theiggy TUG Member

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    The answer is...
    So Marriott VC can make more $$$


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  5. JIMinNC

    JIMinNC TUG Member

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    Bottom line...It's Marriott Vacation Club's system, so they make the rules. They sell Points for about $14/pt list, $11.50-$12/pt after discounts/incentives. By contrast, resale points usually sell for somewhere in the $3-$5/pt range (the price needed to get past ROFR). By requiring that resale owners pay an additional $3/pt initiation fee, the total cost to buy resale points usually winds up in the $6-$8/point range, narrowing the gap between Marriott's price and the resale market. It's probably not coincidental that the resulting $6-$8/pt total cost is very close to what a buyer can get by buying a hybrid bundle of an enrolled resale week and matching points direct from Marriott. As a result, Marriott Vacation Club can more easily compete with the resale points market.

    As I was writing this, it occurred to me that my description makes the $3/pt fee seem almost punitive (rather than cost-of-doing-business-based) and designed to artificially inflate the cost of resale points to erode their ability to compete with Marriott's direct offerings. That almost seems like something that could be challenged in court on some legal basis - artificial price fixing, anticompetitive, etc.
     
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  6. Quilter

    Quilter Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    Now this clears it up better.
     
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  7. Quilter

    Quilter Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    Thank you. This helped me understand that the resale points aren’t completely valueless without initiation.

    Letting them be used within 60 days is comparable to ours in holding. It keeps rooms from going empty.
     
  8. Fasttr

    Fasttr TUG Member

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    The interesting test for somebody who was willing to take a gamble with few grand, would be to purchase 1000 resale points and not pay the initiation fee to see of MVC actually has the IT infrastructure in place to limit the usage of those points to only booking within 60 days. Not sure if you could then pay the initiation fee later if you crashed and burned finding out that indeed they do have the IT ability to restrict resale points that did not pay the initiation fee.
     
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  9. bizaro86

    bizaro86 TUG Member

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    Or just sell them on if they won't let you pay later. They would almost certainly want the fee from your buyer...
     
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  10. pedro47

    pedro47 TUG Review Crew: Expert TUG Member

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  11. Quilter

    Quilter Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    If someone had enough of these resale points to reach Chairman's status, would they receive the Chairman's discount for a <60 day reservation?
     
  12. vol_90

    vol_90 TUG Member

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    I believe they would likely put the points in the holding account similar to cancelling a reservation within 60 days and redepositing the points. Usage would be limited to booking within 60 days.
     
  13. Fasttr

    Fasttr TUG Member

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    That seemingly would prevent banking and borrowing, so not sure that would work.
     
  14. csalter2

    csalter2 TUG Member

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    If the Marriott fees are NOT paid, there can be no banking or borrowing because the points are not in the DC.
     
  15. Fasttr

    Fasttr TUG Member

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    The points would most certainly still be in the DC, even if the fee is not paid, the points are just restricted as outlined in post #2. That said, banking and borrowing could be one of the restrictions, but that point is not clearly spelled out either way in the docs as far as I know.
     
  16. Fasttr

    Fasttr TUG Member

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    When looking at the Trust docs (as opposed to the Exchange docs quoted in post #2), it appears to say the 60 day restriction may only be applicable to Legacy inventory booked via the Exchange. Perhaps anything from the Trust could still be booked outside of the 60 days.....is this how others read this?

    This from the Trust docs....
    Upon the sale of an Interest, Program Manager may require the payment of an initiation fee.
    Until payment of the initiation fee is received (or waived by Program Manager), Program Manager may restrict the purchaser of such Interest(s) from reserving any non-Trust Accommodations with the Points associated with such Interest(s) except during the Open Reservation Period; however, payment of the initiation fee will restore the ability to make reservations during the Priority 1 Period, Priority 2 Period,
    and Priority 3 Period.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019 at 9:06 PM
  17. Quilter

    Quilter Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    When Marriott drew up these documents they were reserving their rights with the "may" language.

    I asked above if a purchaser of enough points to receive Chairman level would get the 60 day discount. Do the documents have language for that?
     
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  18. Fasttr

    Fasttr TUG Member

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    I have never seen any language that even talks about the 60 day discounts. I guess it depends if they determine that to be a Special Benefit under the plan, and if so, that could be excluded based on language quoted in post #2.
     
  19. csalter2

    csalter2 TUG Member

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    I just called Marriott to have this issue addressed and I received three different people who did not know. They are going to call me back tomorrow with the response.

    I specifically asked what limitations were there if I did not pay the initiation fees and there was a lot of nonsense coming out of their mouths and then finally, I don’t know. They each had to talk with someone else. One person told me that she was told there was no other option other than to pay the initiation fee. However, I challenged that thinking and they are going to review it with someone and get back to me tomorrow.
     
  20. Dean

    Dean TUG Member

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    It'll be interesting to see what the official word is. My guess is you don't want to find out for certain by experiencing it. IF the points had a home resort you'd likely have full options there but otherwise under 60 days but with non home resort tied to a given bucket of points, I doubt anyone would want to own and pay fees and be that restricted. In reality they could, and likely should, refuse to transfer the ownership without the other fees.
     
  21. dioxide45

    dioxide45 TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    I think banking and borrowing is a function of the Exchange Company. If you bank trust points can you then book pure trust inventory?
    It would seem that if you own trust points, you should always be able to book trust inventory at 12 months. Not sure if the ownership levels are a function of the Exchange Company or also the Trust ownership. Just like home resort usage, they can't take away your base ownership. However, it seems that Marriott dumps inventory in to the Exchange Company pretty early, so if you wait too long to reserve there may not be any true Trust inventory left to book.
     

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