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Why?? Way way less access to resale buyers after 1/1/19

greenmonster

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Was looking around the DVC site and came upon this.
  • Effective January 19, 2019, Disney Vacation Club Members who do not acquire their real estate interest directly from the developer will not be able to make Vacation Point reservations at some or all non-Home Resorts.
https://disneyvacationclub.disney.g...yZ18BDDvKT5y9s1gcfbkpLD-j3jJbty8aAko-EALw_wcB

I'm wondering if it applies to transfers to family or friends that would like to pass on the account to their loved ones.
 

Great3

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I don't know about friends, but my understanding is a gratuitous transfer to family member retains original benefits. I am sure other with more knowledge will chime in.

Great3
 

tschwa2

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You still have access to all DVC resorts.
The why answer is to force buyers to purchase directly if they want the benefits. It helps cut down on the competition. Most developers did it years ago.
 

TheHolleys87

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People who buy resale DVC after 1/19/19 cannot use their points at the new (not yet open) Riviera or at the future Reflections Resort or any other future resort but can use them at the 14 older resorts (at WDW and offsite). People who buy resale at Riviera will not be able to use their points at any other resort, only at Riviera. Presumably this is to discourage resales and to encourage direct sales, and it's caused great speculation as to what the effect will be on resale prices going forward, especially for Riviera and future resorts.

Can anyone say "sounds like Westgate"?
 

Lisa P

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Most developers did it years ago.
Please clarify what you mean... Are you saying that most developers do not let resale buyers use their points to make reservations at older sister properties within the same system? That's what DVC is saying about future resale buyers for Riviera and I have not seen this before with any other developers. :rolleyes:

As with other business decisions, they are doing it because they can. It's a Disney-wins-and-buyers-lose proposition, IMO. But they can and so they do. :shrug:
 

CPNY

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Please clarify what you mean... Are you saying that most developers do not let resale buyers use their points to make reservations at older sister properties within the same system? That's what DVC is saying about future resale buyers for Riviera and I have not seen this before with any other developers. :rolleyes:

As with other business decisions, they are doing it because they can. It's a Disney-wins-and-buyers-lose proposition, IMO. But they can and so they do. :shrug:
Yes and no and yes. Most point systems allow you to book resorts in the program they are in on resale. Deeded weeks, not so much. In vistana there is what’s called mandatory deeds which means the week has to be enrolled in the network even on resale. So the point value (star options) those weeks ar assigned are able to be used at other vistana resorts at 8 months out. The other weeks are called voluntary and those lose the benefits of booking in network at 8 months using options on resale. In a resale, the voluntary star options are only able to be booked at the home resort in the season you own. So essentially the riviera DVC set up sounds like a Vistana voluntary deed. You can only book other DVC properties if you buy from the developer. Once it hits resale it must be booked at that resort or exchanged in RCI. It does seem DVC is late to the game I restrictions.
 

tschwa2

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Please clarify what you mean... Are you saying that most developers do not let resale buyers use their points to make reservations at older sister properties within the same system? That's what DVC is saying about future resale buyers for Riviera and I have not seen this before with any other developers. :rolleyes:

As with other business decisions, they are doing it because they can. It's a Disney-wins-and-buyers-lose proposition, IMO. But they can and so they do. :shrug:

Well, Wyndham resale owners don't have access to their program that allows access of Worldmark resorts. They originally denied access to Margaritaville resorts but since the distinction of retail/resale goes back 15+ years, there wasn't enough retail owners to keep the resorts filled so they opened up the 2 Margaritaville vacation resorts to bookings 5 months or less. Wyndham has limited inventory at a few of the margaritaville hotels and resale owners have no access to those.

At the time Marriott started selling Trust inventory 9+ years ago they allowed current owners, resale and retail to "enroll" for a fee. After that date limited enrollement of foreign properties not initially eligible and enrollment with trust point purchases only were allowed for post 2010 resales. Marriott at that time stated all new properties would be trust properties only and only available with Trust points. In reality they have not really been separating the inventory so enrolled weeks owners have been given access. But since 2010 gaining access to points have required a points purchase that probably averages around $25,000 minimum.

There are other examples. Basically for the most part developers have been doing their best to chip away at the resale market and removing as many benefits as they can in order to ensure that buyers have to buy retail or pay $20,000+ in order to get the retail perks.
 

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People who buy resale DVC after 1/19/19 cannot use their points at the new (not yet open) Riviera or at the future Reflections Resort or any other future resort but can use them at the 14 older resorts (at WDW and offsite). People who buy resale at Riviera will not be able to use their points at any other resort, only at Riviera. Presumably this is to discourage resales and to encourage direct sales, and it's caused great speculation as to what the effect will be on resale prices going forward, especially for Riviera and future resorts.

Can anyone say "sounds like Westgate"?

Disney “cured my add-on itis” for any new resorts they sell with their creepy resale terms of use of the product. DVC was pitched as a “club” of resorts when we bought in 2002 (and legally described that way in our paperwork - probably why they cannot place resale use restrictions on the original 14). We told family members to book a moderate on cash if they want Disney property and steer clear from buying the new DVC resorts.
 
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frank808

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People who buy resale DVC after 1/19/19 cannot use their points at the new (not yet open) Riviera or at the future Reflections Resort or any other future resort but can use them at the 14 older resorts (at WDW and offsite). People who buy resale at Riviera will not be able to use their points at any other resort, only at Riviera. Presumably this is to discourage resales and to encourage direct sales, and it's caused great speculation as to what the effect will be on resale prices going forward, especially for Riviera and future resorts.

Can anyone say "sounds like Westgate"?
My opinion is it will take the resale price of Riviera points down. Look at Wyndham and Westgate and all those TS systems that penalize the resale buyers. What kept DVC so high is ROFR and the great treatment of resale buyers. A healthy resale environment props up prices.

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DVC is very late to the restrictions on resale buyers. We bought direct years ago from both DVC and Vistana. We would never pay the prices DVC is currently asking for their product and were thinking about a small resale add-on, but with the new restrictions, we aren't.
 

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My opinion is it will take the resale price of Riviera points down. Look at Wyndham and Westgate and all those TS systems that penalize the resale buyers. What kept DVC so high is ROFR and the great treatment of resale buyers. A healthy resale environment props up prices.

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I may buy in at riviera if the maint fee was low. But then again, booking interval getaways is far more economical compared to maint fees of these resorts. I don’t use the transportation to the parks, I’d take Uber anyway so staying off site is a better choice. But if resale is now going to be priced along with current resales in other networks and still get to stay on property it doesn’t seem like a bad thing. Especially if they have the skyway to Epcot
 

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My opinion is it will take the resale price of Riviera points down. Look at Wyndham and Westgate and all those TS systems that penalize the resale buyers. What kept DVC so high is ROFR and the great treatment of resale buyers. A healthy resale environment props up prices.

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Although no one has stayed at Riviera yet (it opens December 16), already one contract has sold at resale, purchased at $188/point, sold for under $130 pp. A second contract reportedly just hit the market, asking in the $170s IIRC - I doubt they’ll get anything near that. And while RR is still in active sales Disney’s not likely to exercise ROFR unless the agreed-upon price is extremely low.

Interesting to watch, since we’re not planning to buy anymore TSs or sell our BWV.
 

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As with other business decisions, they are doing it because they can. It's a Disney-wins-and-buyers-lose proposition, IMO. But they can and so they do. :shrug:

Exactly right but it is not just Disney. I bailed on Marriott many years ago when they started "tightening up" their program...

George
 

CPNY

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Exactly right but it is not just Disney. I bailed on Marriott many years ago when they started "tightening up" their program...

George
I’m hoping they don’t tighten (screw) up the vistana portion. But it’s marriott. I’m sure they will.
 

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Although no one has stayed at Riviera yet (it opens December 16), already one contract has sold at resale, purchased at $188/point, sold for under $130 pp. A second contract reportedly just hit the market, asking in the $170s IIRC - I doubt they’ll get anything near that. And while RR is still in active sales Disney’s not likely to exercise ROFR unless the agreed-upon price is extremely low.

Interesting to watch, since we’re not planning to buy anymore TSs or sell our BWV.
Well they will most likely be taking back a lot of ownerships. I don’t see anyone paying a lot of money to stay at only one resort. Better off buying resale at one of the 14 original clubs. Then you can at least go to different resorts.
 

frank808

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Well they will most likely be taking back a lot of ownerships. I don’t see anyone paying a lot of money to stay at only one resort. Better off buying resale at one of the 14 original clubs. Then you can at least go to different resorts.
That is my recommendation also to those looking at Riviera.

But if you look at Starwood, the same has happened for voluntary vs non voluntary resorts. The non voluntary has kept higher values than their voluntary counterparts.

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That is my recommendation also to those looking at Riviera.

But if you look at Starwood, the same has happened for voluntary vs non voluntary resorts. The non voluntary has kept higher values than their voluntary counterparts.

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Yes, it reminds me of voluntary vs mandatory. I’m a mandatory owner of a few deeds. People buy voluntary for II trades which trade high. I would be all up for purchasing riviera resale dirt cheap since that resort would appeal to me. I like Epcot and HS best. I don’t need a full week. Just a weekend or two during food and wine festival. I would never pay anywhere close to resale DVC original resort prices for a restricted riviera one however. Most people won’t spend developer price with no chance resale and recoup money
 

rickandcindy23

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Devaluing resale hurts the retail buyer in a huge way. But people don't see it that way. There are two ways to look at it, if you think about it. It makes retail look advantageous, but then the other side is that if you had to sell for some reason, your points will not have the value they could have, if everything was exactly the same for the resale buyer. It's Disney copying the other timeshare companies, and it's disappointing.
 

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Riviera’s dues are high and the point chart is inflated, too, and then you add in the use restrictions if sold or bought resale and blech. Buying one of the original 14 DVC’s without the use restrictions is more attractive to me (the ones that are deeded based on being in a “club” without use restrictions if resold).
 
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Was looking around the DVC site and came upon this....

I'm wondering if it applies to transfers to family or friends that would like to pass on the account to their loved ones.

*****
You may transfer to immediate family members only and have to go through the ROFR process with DVC (but they do not exercise their ROFR in these cases) and also have to redeed. You cannot transfer to friends. You can perhaps do private sale to friends, but then again DVC can exercise their ROFR.
***
Riviera’s dues are high and the point chart is inflated, too, and then you add in the use restrictions if sold or bought resale and blech. Buying one of the original 14 DVC’s without the use restrictions is more attractive to me (the ones that are deeded based on being in a “club” without use restrictions if resold).

I purchased two 100 point contracts at Riveria. Sold my Saratoga Springs and a small BoardWalk contract for top dollar to help pay for this. In comparing points charts, it is cheaper point-wise than the Grand Floridian for similar rooms and is almost the same as Bay Lake Tower in some of the "cheaper" DVC times (Adventure Season and Choice).

Some of the 14 "classic" resort contracts will expire in 2042 (Old Key West, BWV and a couple others)....so I'm expecting resale at these resorts to start slacking off. Who knows what will happen to these resorts. It is my understanding that if you buy direct at Riveria, in addition to being able to book at the 14 "classics", you will also be able to book at the newer DVC resorts being built.

The Riveria Resort contract will expire long after I do so this is our legacy to our kids. They can do what they want with it after we are gone. Resale value will be higher because many of the classics will either be razed and rebuilt or have gone thru a whole new selling process.

We did the tour of the rooms that were set up at the sales center at Saratoga Springs. They are stunning and roomy. The studios are great.....a regular bed, a small murphy bed the pulls out from under the TV and a full size murphy bed that comes out of the wall and goes right over the couch and coffee table. A wonderful thing compared to the pull-out sofas that always give me a hard time!
 

TheHolleys87

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Riviera’s dues are high and the point chart is inflated, too, and then you add in the use restrictions if sold or bought resale and blech. Buying one of the original 14 DVC’s without the use restrictions is more attractive to me (the ones that are deeded based on being in a “club” without use restrictions if resold).

Resales at the original 14 DVCs after 1/19/19 cannot be used at Riviera or at any further new DVC resorts (at least one, Reflections, is under construction now). To me that's a use restriction, although not a significant one until the 2042 resorts drop out of the "club" and leave fewer resorts to swap into. Admittedly there will be fewer owners to compete with at 7 months as well - but the Riviera, Reflections and newer resort owners will be added to the mix.
 

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Resales at the original 14 DVCs after 1/19/19 cannot be used at Riviera or at any further new DVC resorts (at least one, Reflections, is under construction now). To me that's a use restriction, although not a significant one until the 2042 resorts drop out of the "club" and leave fewer resorts to swap into. Admittedly there will be fewer owners to compete with at 7 months as well - but the Riviera, Reflections and newer resort owners will be added to the mix.
At least the original 14 aren’t held to just their home resort if resale (after 2042 there would still be SSR, extended OKW, Animal Kingdom, Copper Creek, Bay Lake Tower, Grand Floridian, Grand Californian, and Aulani). Resales at Riviera or Reflections won’t have the luxury of finding availability at another DVC resort last minute if their plans change - maybe this will lead to people using RCI more so at least they don’t lose their points. Who knows, maybe Disney will come up with a way to “qualify” your resale points on Riviera and Reflections for a large fee - LOL.

To be honest, if I were looking at buying DVC today vs when we bought in 2002, I would have passed on it. I used to think of DVC as standing above the other brands, but now they are copying their lower competition like Westgate.
 
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TheHolleys87

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At least the original 14 aren’t held to just their home resort if resale (after 2042 there would still be SSR, extended OKW, Animal Kingdom, Copper Creek, Bay Lake Tower, Grand Floridian, Grand Californian, and Aulani). Resales at Riviera or Reflections won’t have the luxury of finding availability at another DVC resort last minute if their plans change - maybe this will lead to people using RCI more so at least they don’t lose their points. Who knows, maybe Disney will come up with a way to “qualify” your resale points on Riviera and Reflections for a large fee - LOL.

To be honest, if I were looking at buying DVC today vs when we bought in 2002, I would have passed on it. I used to think of DVC as standing above the other brands, but now they are copying their lower competition like Westgate.

I agree. We like to talk to people while standing in line and would sometimes tell them how much we liked our ownership and recommend that they look at DVC resales. We won't do that anymore. We might tell them to look at renting instead!
 

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At the time Marriott started selling Trust inventory 9+ years ago they allowed current owners, resale and retail to "enroll" for a fee. After that date limited enrollement of foreign properties not initially eligible and enrollment with trust point purchases only were allowed for post 2010 resales. Marriott at that time stated all new properties would be trust properties only and only available with Trust points. In reality they have not really been separating the inventory so enrolled weeks owners have been given access. But since 2010 gaining access to points have required a points purchase that probably averages around $25,000 minimum.
.

This is mostly true. However, anyone buying a resale Marriott week can still access the other MVCI properties without points, i.e., nothing has really changed, you can still trade to other MVCI properties. There is definitely not a 25k minimum on the points side as one can buy and enroll resale points, and it's not even half of $25k. The points function identical to Marriott direct sold points.

Just clarifications.
 
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