Ka'anapali Protests

[easyrider]

Holiday protests.

 

[geist1223]

So maybe 100 to 150 people. Not a great turn out. They need to be talking to their landlords/property owners that owned the Apartments or Houses they rented about rebuilding. Hopefully fully insured. I wonder how many of the property owners will simply take their Insurance Payout and then sell the land to the Highest Bidder.

 

[easyrider]

So maybe 100 to 150 people. Not a great turn out. They need to be talking to their landlords/property owners that owned the Apartments or Houses they rented about rebuilding. Hopefully fully insured. I wonder how many of the property owners will simply take their Insurance Payout and then sell the land to the Highest Bidder.

Maybe 100 to 150 on the intersection but there were many in utv's , golf carts and other vehicles slowing traffic that can be seen in the video. This protest was the Maui Hotel Union along with Lahaina Strong.

There is also a group on the beach staging a 24 hour a day beach take over via fishing rights. If they choose to, it would only take two people to shut the highway to West Maui by blocking traffic. If they choose to, they can occupy all of the beaches in West Maui indefinitely with a few people.

Bill

https://beatofhawaii.com/holiday-slump-hawaii-struggles-unsuccessfully-to-revive-tourism/

 

[bobpark56]

So maybe 100 to 150 people. Not a great turn out. They need to be talking to their landlords/property owners that owned the Apartments or Houses they rented about rebuilding. Hopefully fully insured. I wonder how many of the property owners will simply take their Insurance Payout and then sell the land to the Highest Bidder.

What, pray tell, is wrong with selling to the highest bidder?

 

[easyrider]

What, pray tell, is wrong with selling to the highest bidder?

There is nothing wrong with selling to the highest bidder, imo. I have a feeling that people will be surprised on who will be the highest bidders.

Bill

 

[easyrider]

More on the protests. Part of it is the hotel workers are overworked. They might go on strike because enough of them have no permanent lodging.

Bill

 

[geist1223]

What, pray tell, is wrong with selling to the highest bidder?

Nothing. But the "locals" will be pissed.

 

[PaulaC]

What, pray tell, is wrong with selling to the highest bidder?

When the Hawaiian people, the locals, can not afford to live in Hawaii because the land is bought up by wealthy individuals, it is a shame. I love Hawaii and the Aloha spirit, but I don't think it would have the same appeal, if it turns into just a billionaires playground.

 

[JIMinNC]

When the Hawaiian people, the locals, can not afford to live in Hawaii because the land is bought up by wealthy individuals, it is a shame. I love Hawaii and the Aloha spirit, but I don't think it would have the same appeal, if it turns into just a billionaires playground.

Part of the problem over the last decade or so in Hawaii is that it became TOO accessible and affordable for tourists who previously couldn't afford to go, while becoming unaffordable for the local population. The rise of AirBnB is what I think mainly started this cycle. Investors could buy homes and short-term rent them on AirBnB for a lot less than a hotel can rent a full-service room, but still earn a better return than doing long-term rentals to the local population. That helped open up Hawaii to those who could not previously afford to go, causing it to become over-touristed, while simultaneously driving up the cost of local housing. Southwest's entry into the airline market in Hawaii may have also put downward pressure on air fares, further increasing tourist numbers to the point it may have become unsustainable.

New York City seems to have successfully banned AirBnB, and the lawsuit challenging that ban was thrown out of court. I think Hawaii needs to consider something similar that restricts short term rentals outside of defined resort properties that are designed for tourists to begin with. I think that is a very defensible strategy for places like New York with few places to build new housing or islands like Hawaii with limited space and resources. Reducing or eliminating short term rental of local housing stock would immediately help the available inventory of housing for the local population while also lowering the supply of vacation housing. Less supply of vacation rentals would reduce the volume of tourists.

There aren't enough billionaires for Hawaii to become a place only for them, but limiting tourism by raising prices and attracting fewer people (but people who spend more money) could be the ideal solution for places like Hawaii that have become over-touristed. Save Hawaii by making it again the premium destination it once was.

 

[geist1223]

Some locations in Hawaii do have short term rental prohibitions outside of designated areas. Problem is enforcement. Neighbors have to turn in the landowners.

 

[JIMinNC]

Some locations in Hawaii do have short term rental prohibitions outside of designated areas. Problem is enforcement. Neighbors have to turn in the landowners.

New York has figured out enforcement, it would seem. Can't rely on people turning in their neighbors. AirBnB and VRBO list the addresses, so identification would seem to be simple. Get them off those two platforms and you've probably solved most of the problem.

 

[hapstersmom]

What, pray tell, is wrong with selling to the highest bidder?

Learn the history of the stolen kingdom, and you will know.

 

[hapstersmom]

When the Hawaiian people, the locals, can not afford to live in Hawaii because the land is bought up by wealthy individuals, it is a shame. I love Hawaii and the Aloha spirit, but I don't think it would have the same appeal, if it turns into just a billionaires playground.

There are enough billionaires on the planet for HI to be bought and sold for them. I live here. We pay for the tourist infrastructure, but we are being pushed out of living here due to offshore owners and others with money to burn. My question is, who will serve you when the locals can no longer afford to stay?

 

[The Colorado Kid]

There is nothing wrong with selling to the highest bidder, imo. I have a feeling that people will be surprised on who will be the highest bidders.

Bill

@easyrider Not following...whom are you intimating will be the highest bidders?

 

[ScoopKona]

Not following...whom are you intimating will be the highest bidders?

I'll answer that -- Asian gazillonaires. Whenever a property goes up for sale in my area, that is usually the buyer. They're paying more than list, paying cash, and closing fast.

If some old Auntie can't manage property upkeep and wants to sell, who is going to blame her for taking more money with less hassle? These sales immediately become investment property -- usually AirBnB, so the new owners can visit occasionally. The housing base has therefore shrunk, pushing rents (and property value) sky high. Locals can't afford rent; can't afford a down payment; and can't afford monthly mortgage payments.

Housing aside, the cost of living here really isn't that bad. People make it worse than it is by insisting on having Ritz crackers and Haagen Dazs ice cream. But anyone willing to eat local; and make rice a big part of the diet; isn't going to pay the mainland luxury tax for Cap'n Crunch. Gas costs more than most places (but less than California). But we also don't have to drive all that much. I only put 750 miles on my truck last year -- most of that 40 mile round-trip runs to lay in supplies. Amazon Prime works here; so anything which can be purchased there costs the same as it does on the mainland.

So the only real problem is housing. And the only solution is to build housing which isn't attractive to investors. That isn't happening because 1) there's no money in it; and 2) good luck trying to get a permit to build anything at all. It took me more than two years for the permit to build more houses on my farm -- and I didn't need any variances and all the infrastructure is in place. What would have been a rubber stamp anywhere else took more than two years.

 

[HedonisticEpicurean]

ScoopKona is right on target with his comment, " good luck trying to get a permit to build anything at all. It took me more than two years for the permit to build more houses on my farm". He is also right that Asian money is waiting to scoop (no pun intended) up as much land as they can get hold of. The Chinese who got money out before the new cap on taking money out of China (50k a year) also seem flush with money and have a huge appetite for Hawaiian property.

Two years for a permit tells me you must have been pushing the paperwork through the system. I know people who are approaching their third year to get a permit for a much needed mother-in-law suite. A banker on Oahu once told me that he did his addition and then paid the nominal fine because the system is so broke.

We often discuss the permit issue and how in the heck will anything even\r get approved for rebuilding on Maui. I only hope they come up with a system that works.

STVRs are more tightly controlled today than they were before. Oahu simply checks the Airbnb listings (others too) and sends out hefty fines. Maui and the Big Island has worked on STVRs as well. More needs to be done. However, the people hurt with the clamp down have been locals who do cleaning or the older couple renting out a room to supplement their income. The super rich don't want their vacation home rented out anyway.

 

[lynne]

ScoopKona is right on target with his comment, " good luck trying to get a permit to build anything at all. It took me more than two years for the permit to build more houses on my farm". He is also right that Asian money is waiting to scoop (no pun intended) up as much land as they can get hold of. The Chinese who got money out before the new cap on taking money out of China (50k a year) also seem flush with money and have a huge appetite for Hawaiian property.

Two years for a permit tells me you must have been pushing the paperwork through the system. I know people who are approaching their third year to get a permit for a much needed mother-in-law suite. A banker on Oahu once told me that he did his addition and then paid the nominal fine because the system is so broke.

We often discuss the permit issue and how in the heck will anything even\r get approved for rebuilding on Maui. I only hope they come up with a system that works.

STVRs are more tightly controlled today than they were before. Oahu simply checks the Airbnb listings (others too) and sends out hefty fines. Maui and the Big Island has worked on STVRs as well. More needs to be done. However, the people hurt with the clamp down have been locals who do cleaning or the older couple renting out a room to supplement their income. The super rich don't want their vacation home rented out anyway.

I don't know the high water mark for super rich, but the rental market here on Hawai'i Island and I expect the other islands advertises 'resort' homes in established non-resort areas that will house 12 or more with a pool (and sometimes a tennis court). I find the real estate agents are the major problem as they bring potential buyers into neighborhoods and tell them that they can make $1200 or more/night by renting. These agents are advertising these properties as income producing and you end up with 4 vehicles coming and going and 12 people partying in what was once a quiet neighborhood.

The upside for Hawai'i Island is they are trying to manage short term rentals outside of resort areas with a new bill being proposed where the owner must have their home here in Hawai'i as their primary residence if they want to rent for less than 180 days. We are hoping that this will open the rental market to long term rentals at a reasonable price for teachers, nurses, physicians...

 

[easyrider]

@easyrider Not following...whom are you intimating will be the highest bidders?

Josh Green has said Hawaii will protect Lahaina for the local people. If he stays true to his comments and the Emergency Proclamation issued in August, then it would be the Hawaiian's and State acquiring private property in the burn zone of Lahaina.

The land just north of the Lahaina historic district is a Hawaiian Homeland called Leiali'i. Other than the original property owners who lost their homes in the fire, I think the push could be Native Hawaiian interests buying the privately owned properties in the burn zone.

There will be many objections but in the end my bet is the Native Hawaiians will own many of the smaller residential properties. Lahaina Strong probably has over $200,000,000 in donations. There is enough money in this group to place down payments on all of the residential property. There are grants and Federal loans to rebuild. Interesting is how fast the Hawaiian Government can expedite the permit process with an Emergency Proclamation.

This is just my guess based on todays awareness of past genocidal activities to the Native Hawaiians.

Bill

 

[ScoopKona]

We are hoping that this will open the rental market to long term rentals at a reasonable price for teachers, nurses, physicians...

Not a chance. The investment property owners will have a son or daughter claim residence and the property will be rented out short term. There's simply too much money at stake.

I have AirBnBs on three sides of me. One of them is a literal tent. Not a Yurt. A tent. Sort of like what Hawkeye, Trapper John and Frank Burns shared in MASH. $300 per night. There's a lovely glass house downhill from me. It's tiny -- but very nice. And not much of a view because it's surrounded by trees. Also requires a 4x4 to get there. It's rented in perpetuity at $500 per night. The final one is a coffee farm which has an AirBnB treehouse. They're clearing a quarter million a year from their treehouse.

 

[Henry M.]

Short term rentals are what make long term rentals unavailable and unaffordable. There is just no comparison between the income possibilities of short term vs. long term. You get 4-5x the income, with less hassle, since you don[t have to worry as much about bad tenants. Your short term tenants will be gone in a few days, and usually don't cause much damage in the few days they are there. You also get to inspect the property often and fix anything that is an issue. Long term renters are harder to evict if they stop making payments and you are less likely to be able to see any damage they are causing to your property.

It seems the best way to get rid of short term rentals is to outright ban them in non-resort areas. Perhaps only allow them in owner occupied properties if someone wants to rent out an unused room or such? The concept of renting out otherwise unused space for a little extra income is nice, but in practice, it significantly damages the local housing market for permanent residents. Even when not abused by unscrupulous owners that essentially run a hotel without all the safeguards hotels have to have, they are harmful for the local community. Owners do well, but housing for the local community dries up even at inflated rates.

 

[JIMinNC]

My understanding of the way New York City handled their AirBnB/VRBO restrictions is they require the property owner to be present in the rental when the tenants are there. This allows someone who just wants to rent out an extra bedroom to help out with their mortgage payment to still do so, but prohibits the proliferation of quasi-hotels in residential neighborhoods. In fact, I think that may have been the original business model for AirBnB rather than whole house rentals, hence the BnB in their name.

 

[ScoopKona]

Your short term tenants will be gone in a few days, and usually don't cause much damage in the few days they are there. You also get to inspect the property often and fix anything that is an issue. Long term renters are harder to evict if they stop making payments and you are less likely to be able to see any damage they are causing to your property.

In Hawaii, short-term renters don't have any pets -- it's ridiculously hard to travel with animals to Hawaii. (Which is one of the big perks of living here -- not nearly as many special snowflakes with their "fur babies.") So there's no pet damage.

Tourists aren't going to squat. They can't pull stakes and move here. They aren't going to buy a car, move here permanently, and use Hawaii's tenant-favorable laws to their advantage.

And, like many other legal quandaries in this state, enforcement of short-term rental laws seems to be "the honor system." Just like property owners will cheerfully build unpermitted structures because the permitting process is so onerous, property owners will also rent out tents/yurts/trailers/plywood shacks/vacation palaces because they can.

 

[easyrider]

property owners will also rent out tents/yurts/trailers/plywood shacks/vacation palaces because they can.

Yup. My cousin has a couple of garden sheds in their back yard that they fixed up for the times relatives visit Oahu. They also built an outdoor kitchen and a small bathroom on their back patio. I doubt they would allow anyone but family or friends to use this but I can see how these would make money.

Bill

 

[KBR Owner]

I would be willing to give them my ownership if the resort would allow.