What To Buy?

[djaneczko]

Hi all-
I have been wandering around the forums thinking a trial into timeshares may be for us.
My wife and I are teachers and will be retiring in 4 years and think about adding timeshares as a part of a strategy for snowbirding at that time. Currently we do travel a good deal and for a few weeks at a time. We have been using Wyndham Points (earned and purchased) to book Vacasa Properties lately…I have gotten about 3 weeks in Hawaii for the last couple of summers for $2600…$877/week).

Thinking about starting a trial into a points system that I can use and/or trade for some weeks and possibly expand if it seems to work.

I love to learn and experiment to find good deals, so I am thinking that time sharing may be something for us. We would mostly need studios or 1br since it is just my wife and myself.

Initially I was thinking about purchasing a Wyndham to HGVC and lowest MF/point costs, but some threads discuss purchasing a Marriott to trade into II for value? I’m not sure if an initial purchase can bog down a strategy for future expansion if this if for us?

1) Is there a vacation destination you wish to visit most of the time or on a regular basis? if so where?
Hawaii, but we are pretty flexible. Mostly warm places during the colder months.

2) Do you want to visit your home resort at least half the time, or do you want to trade more than half the time?
I’m thinking about trading a lot.
3) What are your 5 top trade destinations?
Hawaii, Caribbean, Southwest, Asia Pacific, Spain/Portugaul
4) How many people do you usually travel with - total, including yourself?
2
5) Can you travel any time, or are you locked into the school schedule?
As 2 teachers we are on a school schedule, but are planning on retiring in 4 years and will be totally flexible.
6) Can you make firm plans 12 or more mos. in advance?
Yea
7) Can you vacation for a full week at a time?
Yes
8) What level of accommodations do you prefer on a scale of 1 to 5 stars?
2-3
9) How much can you afford to spend upfront, without financing?
5K
10) How much can you afford to spend every year for a maintenance fee that will come due right after Christmas, and increase each year?
2K
11) Are you a detail oriented planner?
Yes
12) Do you understand that once you buy a timeshare, it may be very difficult to sell or give away, and you are responsible for all fees, until you do?
Yes

 

[geist1223]

Take a look at the Worldmark System. You can buy a resell Account for less than 20 cents per Credit/Point. Some have gone for 10 cents per Credit/Point in the last 6 months. This is a pure Credit/Point System. No Home Resort. It has 90+ Resorts that include Fiji, Mexico, Hawaii, Southwest, Florida, Canada, etc. A resell owner has full access to the 90+ Resorts that same as folks that buy from the Developer. There are also 3 realitively short fuse cash options: Bonus Time, Monday Madness, and Inventory Specials. You can also have 4 Wait Lists pending at any time. Worldmark has a section on this Forum. Also www.wmowners.com/forum is by Worldmark Owners for Worldmark Owners. You get 1 House Keeping Token from 5,000 to 19,999 Credits. An additional at 20,000 Credits and then another for every 10,000 Credits after that. You get a Guest Certificate for every 10,000 Credits or part thereof. Your Credits and House keeping Token are good for Booking for about 25 months and you can Book out about 13 months. For example/understanding Credits and House Keeping Tokens are issued on the First Day of your anniversary Month. Lets say May. So Credits issued on May 1, 2024 are good until May 31, 2026 and because you can Book out 13 Months that Reservation does not have to start until June 30, 2027. Guest Certificates expire each year if not used. Also you can borrow Credits and House Keeping Tokens one year in advance without any charge. Bookings between 13 months and 10 months in advance have to be for 1 week or longer. Bookings less than 9 months in advance can be for less than a week. If you cancel more than 30 days in Advance you get your Credits and House Keeping Tokens back but not Guest Certificates.

 

[jp10558]

Wyndham is going to be a better bet buy in than HGVC - HGVC is probably ~10,000 to buy resale for ~11,200pts which is recommended. This amount includes the closing costs, transfer fees, one year MF and the like they tend to require to buy. MFs can be found for ~1,000 (can be hard to find and will cost more up front) to $1,600 a year pretty easily on 11,200pts.

Wyndham is often available for sub $2k after all fees if buying on ebay, and there are a bunch that tend to come up free on the TUG forums occasionally. Note, the MFs on Wyndham seem to usually be a monthly cost, and often are quoted that way, so multiply by 12 to get the yearly cost other systems tend to quote. Wyndham has a lot ofa locations, and at least some availability. Downsides are 3 star rather than HGVC 4 star, glitchy websites. Upshots are pretty inexpensive, and also has RCI included, and you can usually pick them up cheap cheap cheap. Look for non CWA to compare for lower MFs per point. It's real hard for me to say exactly how many points you should look for from Wyndham. For your MFs, probably should look at ~250,000ish.

 

[djaneczko]

Take a look at the Worldmark System. You can buy a resell Account for less than 20 cents per Credit/Point. Some have gone for 10 cents per Credit/Point in the last 6 months. This is a pure Credit/Point System. No Home Resort. It has 90+ Resorts that include Fiji, Mexico, Hawaii, Southwest, Florida, Canada, etc. A resell owner has full access to the 90+ Resorts that same as folks that buy from the Developer. There are also 3 realitively short fuse cash options: Bonus Time, Monday Madness, and Inventory Specials. You can also have 4 Wait Lists pending at any time. Worldmark has a section on this Forum. Also www.wmowners.com/forum is by Worldmark Owners for Worldmark Owners. You get 1 House Keeping Token from 5,000 to 19,999 Credits. An additional at 20,000 Credits and then another for every 10,000 Credits after that. You get a Guest Certificate for every 10,000 Credits or part thereof. Your Credits and House keeping Token are good for Booking for about 25 months and you can Book out about 13 months. For example/understanding Credits and House Keeping Tokens are issued on the First Day of your anniversary Month. Lets say May. So Credits issued on May 1, 2024 are good until May 31, 2026 and because you can Book out 13 Months that Reservation does not have to start until June 30, 2027. Guest Certificates expire each year if not used. Also you can borrow Credits and House Keeping Tokens one year in advance without any charge. Bookings between 13 months and 10 months in advance have to be for 1 week or longer. Bookings less than 9 months in advance can be for less than a week. If you cancel more than 30 days in Advance you get your Credits and House Keeping Tokens back but not Guest Certificates.

Thank you for the reply!
Looks like 11,000 to 12,000 points per week for 1BR gets you a fair percentage of resorts for a week? That puts MF in the $1300 range?
I did find the info on Monday Madness, IS, and Bonus Time, but could not find pricing or availability on the Bonus Time (or Exotic BT)...any thoughts on those costs?
Thanks so much!

 

[djaneczko]

Wyndham is going to be a better bet buy in than HGVC - HGVC is probably ~10,000 to buy resale for ~11,200pts which is recommended. This amount includes the closing costs, transfer fees, one year MF and the like they tend to require to buy. MFs can be found for ~1,000 (can be hard to find and will cost more up front) to $1,600 a year pretty easily on 11,200pts.

Wyndham is often available for sub $2k after all fees if buying on ebay, and there are a bunch that tend to come up free on the TUG forums occasionally. Note, the MFs on Wyndham seem to usually be a monthly cost, and often are quoted that way, so multiply by 12 to get the yearly cost other systems tend to quote. Wyndham has a lot ofa locations, and at least some availability. Downsides are 3 star rather than HGVC 4 star, glitchy websites. Upshots are pretty inexpensive, and also has RCI included, and you can usually pick them up cheap cheap cheap. Look for non CWA to compare for lower MFs per point. It's real hard for me to say exactly how many points you should look for from Wyndham. For your MFs, probably should look at ~250,000ish.

Thank you!
SO non-CWA is Wyndham Select? Is there any way to tell from the resort if it is CWA or is it specific to an owner? Or can you just eyeball the MF and know.

 

[marmite]

Although I own some programs with points, in this case I think owning a Marriott trader would be a great idea. Why?

Even though Hawaii can be a harder trade, having preference in Interval gives you an edge that can give you a great Marriott (or possibly Westin) week, or even the Marriott's in Thailand and Spain.

Since owning that week would give you access to Interval, it would give you amazing choices of paid Getaways (which are really inexpensive weeks). Especially since you are not to hung up on the star level, the prices could be VERY low, and you could also take advantage of the Accommodation Certificate(s) that you can get for your deposits. Sometimes the prices for those weeks are even lower than the Getaways.

Even though it doesn't have the flexibility of spending a couple of days here and there (like you would with points), you could get access to many bargain weeks through Interval.

 

[jp10558]

Thank you!
SO non-CWA is Wyndham Select? Is there any way to tell from the resort if it is CWA or is it specific to an owner? Or can you just eyeball the MF and know.

Yea, I think it's Wyndham Select. You should check the Wyndham forum for the spreadsheets on MF/pt and the like. Most of the ebay listings anyway will say CWA (for access) or Wyndham Points for Select IME. The seller ought to know or be able to find out. I recommend looking for MF/pt a little lower than CWA towards the best values from the spreadsheets, but unless you're real patient, don't worry about trying to get the absolute lowest MF/pt, just make sure you're in the lower half IMO. CWA kind of sets the most you should pay MF/pt IMHO. The reason I personally prefer select is you have a home resort and about as close to a deed as Wyndham has usually. IDK I feel a little safer there, but it's probably not really a thing to worry about a lot.

The CWA as far as I can tell is specific to the ownership interest, many resorts are part of CWA. That doesn't (as far as I know) mean that the resorts are *only* CWA.

 

[jp10558]

Although I own some programs with points, in this case I think owning a Marriott trader would be a great idea. Why?

Personally, for someone with a low cap on MF I would strongly encourage the potential buyer to check the Marriott forum to see how high those fees are and how much they've gone up last year, then compare to HGVC and Wyndham and others. I personally don't think anyone who is price sensitive AT ALL should buy Marriott, especially when you don't need II for Hawaii to trade, the mini-systems include it and RCI has lots of places too - and when you're OK with 2 star, RCI will do you fine too, with Wyndham or HGVC MFs - I can't see why you'd want to spend Marriott money to buy, junk fees, and much higher MFs.

In my opinion - the *only* reason to buy Marriott is you are willing to PAY UP to get 4-4.5 star resorts more often, or potentially as a slightly cheaper way to trade into DVC.

 

[marmite]

I would still want a week that trades in Interval. I have seen the occasional week of Wyndham in Interval, so I assume some might?

Even if it's not buying Marriott (though Marriott preference gives access to great weeks), a lockoff trader is just as cheap for me to use as a WorldMark week. And although you may have heard of some high increases, that is not the case with all (mine increased 7%, I paid $1512 MF which is getting me 2 weeks to trade). HGVC cost me more on the buy in, registration and the weeks I books so I consider it the highest price to use from what I own.

 

[djaneczko]

Thanks for the great info everyone! I appreciate all of your time and input.

I’m curious about the lockoff. Marmite, you said that your lockoff was $1512 MF, but you get 2 weeks to trade?
Sorry, I am just getting started in this…you trade it/them into II and get 2 weeks?
My questions on that would be…fees to trade into II and then again split off the lockoff? Are there any posts on that strategy that I might be able to read up on?

Seems that it would indeed cut MF in half and also make incremental MF increases less since you actually have a lower MF starting point...making a little more of an initial up front investment worthwhile.

 

[marmite]

@djaneczko the 2BR locks off into a Studio and a 1BR unit. I think it is $90 or $99 for Marriott to lock it off. You call them or go online to book your weeks and lock it off for deposit into Interval. My Vistana (Sheraton Desert Oasis) lockoff does not have to pay that charge when I lock off. I'm sure Marriott will change that soon enough.

You need to have an Interval account ($100 a year), but since I have many units sharing the same account the cost per trade is quite cheap. So even if you have the 2 weeks to trade that is adding $50 per trade to your cost.

I usually end up exchanging into a Marriott or Vistana in Interval, which is $164 (a lower trade fee than if I trade into another brand, I think other brands are $229 but someone can chime in if I got it wrong).

Those are your only costs, unless you want to upgrade in unit size (but it sounds like you don't usually need more than a studio or 1BR), and there are other add-ons you can take like E Plus or insurance which are optional.

For each week I deposit, Interval gives me an Accommodation Certificate which lets you buy an off-season week in various locations. The fee to use your certificate is quite low, usually around $300 depending on the unit size. I rarely get to use mine, but others with more flexibility find them great deals, especially if they are in driving distance to some timeshare locations. The AC's vary in what they see, how long they are valid for and the trade power too. The ones I get with my Marriott deposit are usually quite good.

 

[jp10558]

I would still want a week that trades in Interval. I have seen the occasional week of Wyndham in Interval, so I assume some might?

Even if it's not buying Marriott (though Marriott preference gives access to great weeks), a lockoff trader is just as cheap for me to use as a WorldMark week. And although you may have heard of some high increases, that is not the case with all (mine increased 7%, I paid $1512 MF which is getting me 2 weeks to trade). HGVC cost me more on the buy in, registration and the weeks I books so I consider it the highest price to use from what I own.

I guess I haven't seen, but my understanding with Marriott is you have to pay 3% just to get it into the system. Maybe you're not using most of the system (Abound I think it's called?). If that's the case, I could see it being OK, but what location do you have a LO for that $1500? If you're only trading via Interval, I'd also suggest looking at the VV Colonies I think, it's ~$500 to buy in and $1,000 MF and supposedly trades really nicely in Interval.

With Wyndham, if you stay in the system you can go to any of the resorts you get access too (This is a lot, but complicated in that you don't get Worldmark) with no additional fee. HGVC is $64. And you don't also have to pay for the RCI account separate, though trading with RCI is iffy at $300. I don't have II also (yet, I might get it eventually due to how much it's talked up on TUG, but in 2 and 3 star I'm mostly still overwhelmed with places in RCI so I think the "need" for Interval is a little overstated), so I don't know this for sure, but the Last Calls are similarly very inexpensive but limited in time/location. However, I often find a compelling Extra Vacation for just a little bit more, but still beats a lot of rentals etc.

 

[marmite]

@jp10558 I am not in the Abound system. I have bought a 2BR resale week at Marriott Grand Chateau (they are Platinum season). Marriott Abound is too rich for my blood. I am happy with the cheap(er) trader.

 

[SteveinHNL]

The Marriott preference that @marmite is referring to is a big deal. When Marriott releases TS inventory into Interval, they generally give Marriott owners "preference," meaning Marriott owners can see and book those weeks before non-Marriott owners can even see them. This means the best weeks are available to be scooped up by Marriott owners in Interval before they are even offered to or seen by non-Marriott owners. For example, just yesterday @marmite snagged a June week at the Marriott Newport Coast Villas due to her having a Marriott preference. I am not a Marriott owner so I would probably never even get a chance to get that kind of week there.

 

[dayooper]

Wyndham is going to be a better bet buy in than HGVC - HGVC is probably ~10,000 to buy resale for ~11,200pts which is recommended. This amount includes the closing costs, transfer fees, one year MF and the like they tend to require to buy. MFs can be found for ~1,000 (can be hard to find and will cost more up front) to $1,600 a year pretty easily on 11,200pts.

I will disagree with this entirely. You can get a great HGVC platinum 2 bedroom Vegas deed (11,200 points) for $3k - $6k. I own 2 Vegas deeds and my MF's for my Flamingo and Boulevard plus my club dues were $2400. The Boulevard has MF's just north of $1k while the Flamingo has MF's of $1.2K.

Now, where the OP wants to go, I think HGVC is a bad fit. As a current teacher of 25 years myself, we love our HGVC and have made so many family memories with our points.

 

[jp10558]

I will disagree with this entirely. You can get a great HGVC platinum 2 bedroom Vegas deed (11,200 points) for $3k - $6k. I own 2 Vegas deeds and my MF's for my Flamingo and Boulevard plus my club dues were $2400. The Boulevard has MF's just north of $1k while the Flamingo has MF's of $1.2K.

Now, where the OP wants to go, I think HGVC is a bad fit. As a current teacher of 25 years myself, we love our HGVC and have made so many family memories with our points.

I am just suggesting that if you're even a read up on TUG buyer, like I was, you're not getting those deals. I went by the TUG marketplace and the seller on there didn't actually have what was on TUG - she said they went very quickly, and suggested Orlando for $5,500 2 years ago. Adding in the $1,500 MF, and other transfer costs, and I was at $8,000iish. I actually do want to get more HGVC (maybe), but the other one I've looked at is Scotland, which while MFs is ~$1,000 - purchase is more like 6,000 GBP. I would love to know - are you buying on e-bay?

So I did give the high mark so the person would likely get what I'm claiming or a better deal.

 

[marmite]

I know the question isn't directed at me @jp10558 but I will say that every resale I have bought, has been on eBay. rofr.net is a good resource to look up what TUGers are paying for HGVC and other resorts with ROFR. A 2BR Platinum at one of the low MF Vegas HGVC's should run about 3500-4500 plus transfer fees if you are patient.

 

[dayooper]

I am just suggesting that if you're even a read up on TUG buyer, like I was, you're not getting those deals. I went by the TUG marketplace and the seller on there didn't actually have what was on TUG - she said they went very quickly, and suggested Orlando for $5,500 2 years ago. Adding in the $1,500 MF, and other transfer costs, and I was at $8,000iish. I actually do want to get more HGVC (maybe), but the other one I've looked at is Scotland, which while MFs is ~$1,000 - purchase is more like 6,000 GBP. I would love to know - are you buying on e-bay?

So I did give the high mark so the person would likely get what I'm claiming or a better deal.

My first purchase was my Flamingo off of Redweek for $4500 in 2018. It was considered a good deal then, but those are pretty normal nowadays. The MF’s are a bit higher than Boulevard and Paradise but still fairly decent (~$1200). My Boulevard was a steal. We bought that back in 2021 when the market bottomed out. We bought that for $2500 off of a Facebook resale page. A deal like that would be hard to find now.

There are several 2 bedroom platinum deeds at The Boulevard ranging from $5200-$7000. Paradise has several ranging from $4500-$9000. These are asking prices and could be negotiated down. Redweek usually has a fair amount listed and either would be a great starter for anybody who wants to give it a go. The biggest part is these deeds os both are easily gotten rid of if need be.

 

[djaneczko]

Hi All-
Thanks again for all the help and advice (especially so to @marmite and @dayooper) .
I have been reading and researching and I think I may look at getting a HGVC EOY deed and a GC EOY deed. I think it will let me dabble in II and RCI as well as get a little bit of a flexible portfolio.
In the mean time I have made a spreadsheet that I hope may be helpful, but I would like some feedback on for changes. It looks at the 5 or 8 year cost of a HGVC purchase and allows for Purchase + MF + MF increases to do some crude analysis. I got a lot of the info to make this from: This discussion
So here is my attempt.
HGVC Google Sheet Analysis
A few things:
1. It assumes "points are points" and location is not too important.
2. I intend closing costs and Hilton (any other usage ..RCI..ect) fees be included in purchase price.
3. Assume no value at the end, but I hope to purchase a "Platinum" that would be easier to get out of.
4. It really discounts the time value of money a lot.

Let me know what you think (but be kind/comstructive) and feel free to copy/change if its not trash.
I plan on making a MVC trader spreadsheet if this seems legit.